What does it mean to be spiritual?

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Frattracide

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#1 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts

I cannot come up with an operational definition for the term "spiritual."

A long time ago, I was having a conversation about this subject with my older sister; I asked her to explain what she meant when she said she had a spiritual experience. She described it as an overwhelming sense of awe, she went on to add a list of emotions she said she felt. Things like Joy, relief, sadness (IDK why) and a sense of security or connection. So I replied that "spiritual" was just another way of describing emotional experiences or maybe an intense emotional experience. She seemed very offended by the idea that the two terms where interchangeable and insisted that I was wrong. I dismissed this as a religious rationalization on her part. For the longest time I thought spirituality and emotion where the same thing.

My thinking on the subject was that religious people have the desire to describe a connection to a god. They do this by conveying emotional experiences they had but want to add a bit of authority to their experience so they call it "spiritual" instead. (Because simple emotion can be explained by more natural or psychological means and they might think this cheapens the whole god thing.)

However, recently I have heard non religious people use the term "spiritual." I was listening to some atheists talk about spiritual needs they had. (One person was advising a recent deconvert to obtain a new spiritual outlet) Given my grasp of the subject, this makes no sense. Why would an atheist need to mystify emotion? 

Try as I might, I can't come up with a definition of the term that is not indistinguishable from emotional experiences. 

So what makes something spiritual? How do you tell if an experience is spiritual? What does it mean to be spiritual? 

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foxhound_fox

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#2 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I'd peg the difference between "spiritual" and "emotional" as the former deals with the unconscious mind manifesting itself in the conscious (which is dichotomous by nature, and thus causes only confusion to the inexperienced), and the latter being the baser instincts manifesting themselves in the conscious mind as they normally do in response to objective stimulus. Something "spiritual" is something that is not objective, and derives itself solely within the subjective "self" within the psyche.

With my research that I've been putting into mysticism, I'd say "spiritual" is essentially "mystical" in that it is an unexplainable unconscious experience that one has when they are under excess. Some describe it as "God," others "contacting the spirit world" and others "a psychological manifestation of the unconscious mind in the consciousness causing rapturous awe or dread or both."

I've never liked the term "spiritual" because it always feels like the people who use it are trying to say they aren't "religious," despite being religious, though not ascribing to an accepted institution. Somewhat of a condescending term.

I personally have yet to experience anything "mystical" though I have to admit, I want it to happen... and hopefully my experiments will prove successful.
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ghoklebutter

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#3 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
Focusing your thoughts on God.
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Teenaged

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#4 Teenaged
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I've never liked the term "spiritual" because it always feels like the people who use it are trying to say they aren't "religious," despite being religious, though not ascribing to an accepted institution. Somewhat of a condescending term.foxhound_fox
But I thought religious should describe those who are part of an organised religion (or at least those who do have a somewhat formed idea of what the supernatural entails), not anyone who just believes in the supernatural / has had "spiritual" expriences or generally often wonders about the supernatural.
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GabuEx

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#5 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

hopefully my experiments will prove successful.foxhound_fox

LSD? :P

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foxhound_fox

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#6 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

But I thought religious should describe those who are part of an organised religion (or at least those who do have a somewhat formed idea of what the supernatural entails), not anyone who just believes in the supernatural / has had "spiritual" expriences or generally often wonders about the supernatural.Teenaged

Anyone can be "religious" so long as they have their own set of beliefs. Plus, ask 1000 Christians to define their "religion" and you'll probably get 1000 different answers. "Spirituality" is just another way of trying to set oneself apart from organized religion, when they are technically the same thing. Whether it is organized, institutional religion, or a uniquely crafted one for an individual, its still the same experience either way.

LSD? :P

GabuEx



All kinds of things.

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RationalAtheist

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#8 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

You could also look at it from a completely different point of view, such as the idea that every experience you have, whether it appears to be mundane or not, is an interaction between God and your Soul. Such was a notion held by Aleister Crowley.Android339

Even the experiences of all those suffering needless torture, pain and death? 

And Frattracide, I'm with you on this one. To me; spirituality=gullibility. Are your atheist friends referring to "creative expression" in their quest for spirituality?

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GabuEx

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#10 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Even the experiences of all those suffering needless torture, pain and death?RationalAtheist

In retrospect, I would count the time in my life during which I suffered the most pain and anguish to be perhaps the best thing that happened to me, as it to a large extent was responsible for shaping me into who I am today.  I consider myself a much more whole person having been through such an experience.

Of course, that's not to say that people should actively put people through such experiences just to create that effect.  But I think it's something to think about.

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RationalAtheist

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#12 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Even the experiences of all those suffering needless torture, pain and death?GabuEx

In retrospect, I would count the time in my life during which I suffered the most pain and anguish to be perhaps the best thing that happened to me, as it to a large extent was responsible for shaping me into who I am today.  I consider myself a much more whole person having been through such an experience.

Of course, that's not to say that people should actively put people through such experiences just to create that effect.  But I think it's something to think about.

Some arduous experiences can be life-changing. That's for sure. Others can be life-ending. I was angling more from the amoral universe perspective, where God is with someone being mauled by a crocodile, devastated by flood, etc.  

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RationalAtheist

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#14 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

I think Crowley was angling at a more subjective worldview when he talked about life being an interaction between one's Soul and God. 

Android339

I'm sure he was, but I still wonder how the interaction would resolve during one of those events - especially for a toddler. 

This "soul" you speak of: Is this the personalisation of spirituality? 

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RationalAtheist

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#16 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

In Crowley's view, I believe he was speaking concerning the very principle part and essence of Man.

Android339

"Essence" - that almost sounds detectable! 

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RationalAtheist

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#18 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

It may have been, according to him. The magazine (of sorts) of the A.'.A.'. was put forth with the motto, "The method of science. The aim of religion." He was very into having people experience subjective experiences for themselves, and not allowing others to settle for the subjective experiences he himself had. He was a pretty interesting guy.

Android339

He is fascinating, 

Aleister Crowley

 

but very odd.

Would you lend him your lawnmower? 

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Frattracide

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#20 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Even the experiences of all those suffering needless torture, pain and death?GabuEx

In retrospect, I would count the time in my life during which I suffered the most pain and anguish to be perhaps the best thing that happened to me, as it to a large extent was responsible for shaping me into who I am today.  I consider myself a much more whole person having been through such an experience.

Of course, that's not to say that people should actively put people through such experiences just to create that effect.  But I think it's something to think about.

Every time I here this argument I think of the lady on GTA Vice City, who remarks about her parents murders, "They were killed so I could have a great personal experience." 

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#21 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

Anyone can be "religious" so long as they have their own set of beliefs. Plus, ask 1000 Christians to define their "religion" and you'll probably get 1000 different answers. "Spirituality" is just another way of trying to set oneself apart from organized religion, when they are technically the same thing. Whether it is organized, institutional religion, or a uniquely crafted one for an individual, its still the same experience either way.

foxhound_fox

I just think of it this way because of the meaning of the word "irreligious" which implies abstinence from religions but not necessarily lack of beliefs about the supernatural/deities.

But I guess I am too the victim of perceiving etymology in a strict manner.