What are your views on sex and marriage?

I should first clarify that the poll asks you to answer from a moral standpoint and not from a legal standpoint. 

I view any form of intercourse as appalling. I think sex should only be done for reproductive measures if it has to be done at all. I think premarital sex is immoral. Sex in itself is not immoral, but I do find sex in general over-sensationalized to the point where it seems as though its meaning has been lost.

I look at marriage as just a license, a contract that puts love in writing, but love doesn't need writing for it to be true. I think that atheists shouldn't marry and they should remain celibate. Marriage to me is too religious for atheists to get involved with and sex is a slippery slope. I'm fine with having a friend of the opposite sex; in fact, I think that makes a relationship more valuable.

I'm considering asking out a preacher's daughter. I want to first know what she might think of me as being an atheist. This is another thing I have trouble with too, because if I recall correctly, Christians are told not to date anyone who are non-believers. I've also never been a fan of religious moderates, because sometimes they're willing to reinterpret something for their own desires, and I'm not referring to just the Bible. ;)

Here are some quotes from the Bible.

"You must not intermarry with them. Do not let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters, for they will lead your children away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and he will quickly destroy you." -Deuteronomy 7:3-4

It's important to notice that Deuteronomy does not speak of the disbelief of gods, but merely the belief of other gods. 

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy." -1 Corinthians 7:12-14  

"Don't team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?" -2 Corinthians 6:14

It's interesting to note that 1 Corinthians seems to contradict with Deuteronomy. Perhaps it falls under the new covenant restored by Jesus?

2 Corinthians seems strange though. The phrase "How can light live with darkness?" is contradictory in itself, because darkness (the absense of light) is entirely dependent on light. 

What are your thoughts? 

EDIT: I made a few clarifications. 

:o Wow. I've never seen anyone with your view before. It's certainly interesting.

Anyway, the Bible is explicitly clear on premarital sex - It's wrong in all cases. It's adultery and a Sin against God.

Acts 15:20, Romans 1:29 and 2 Corinthians 12:21 all make it abundantly clear. :)

Do you consider sex immoral according to religion? If you have any other reasons beside the religious one, please share. I want to understand your standpoint better.7guns

No. I find premarital sex immoral. I find any intercourse as appalling.

EDIT: The Bible quotes were there for me to question whether or not a Christian could date a non-believer, not for my own beliefs (obviously). There's just this weird intuition I have with so-called Christians who interpret the Bible enough where it allows them to literally do as they please. That's why I think that if a Christian has to reinterpret the Bible in order to have a relationship with a non-believer, it goes against their code of conduct and they might as well abandon their faith or abandon their relationship.

How do I know that they can trust me when they can't even trust the God they claim to worship? Shouldn't God be greater than me? If she cannot even trust the Word of God that she asserts it to be, then what business does she have trusting me and why should I trust her? That's not love. That makes her out to be a liar.

Fortunately, I don't think that one requires a massive reinterpretation of the Bible in order to justify a Christian for dating a non-believer, but I'd like to hear some opinions. I probably should have not made a thread discussing two weakly related ideas.

[QUOTE="7guns"]Do you consider sex immoral according to religion? If you have any other reasons beside the religious one, please share. I want to understand your standpoint better.Genetic_Code

No. I find premarital sex immoral. I find any intercourse as appalling.

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Regardless of consent? Since you say it's not from a legal perspective, does that mean rape? :?

I'm cool with consensual (that is, permission, not legal age of consent) premarital sex. I haven't had it, but I have no plans to wait until I get married. It just doesn't matter to me. However, I'll probably wait 'til I'm in some sort of meaningful relationship for my first time, just because I hold a rather typical romantic and emotional view of these things.

That's an interesting view you have Mr. Code, rejecting the typical romantic view of marriage and sex in favor of asexuality. I respectfully disagree, as most probably will. I don't mean to sound cynical, but I think there may be some turbulence in your relationships since I imagine most women will want to have sex and get married at some point.

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Lansdowne5

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Regardless of consent? Since you say it's not from a legal perspective, does that mean rape? :?

AlternatingCaps

It wouldn't surprise me if some people took the extreme position that rape is okay, which is why I included it. 

That's an interesting view you have Mr. Code, rejecting the typical romantic view of marriage and sex in favor of asexuality. I respectfully disagree, as most probably will. I don't mean to sound cynical, but I think there may be some turbulence in your relationships since I imagine most women will want to have sex and get married at some point.AlternatingCaps

Yes, and I would like to have children, but I'm so insecure about how. 

I should first clarify that the poll asks you to answer from a moral standpoint and not from a legal standpoint. 

I view any form of intercourse as appalling. I think sex should only be done for reproductive measures if it has to be done at all. I think premarital sex is immoral. Sex in itself is not immoral, but I do find sex in general over-sensationalized to the point where it seems as though its meaning has been lost.

I look at marriage as just a license, a contract that puts love in writing, but love doesn't need writing for it to be true. I think that atheists shouldn't marry and they should remain celibate. Marriage to me is too religious for atheists to get involved with and sex is a slippery slope. I'm fine with having a friend of the opposite sex; in fact, I think that makes a relationship more valuable.

I'm considering asking out a preacher's daughter. I want to first know what she might think of me as being an atheist. This is another thing I have trouble with too, because if I recall correctly, Christians are told not to date anyone who are non-believers. I've also never been a fan of religious moderates, because sometimes they're willing to reinterpret something for their own desires, and I'm not referring to just the Bible. ;)

Here are some quotes from the Bible.

"You must not intermarry with them. Do not let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters, for they will lead your children away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and he will quickly destroy you." -Deuteronomy 7:3-4

It's important to notice that Deuteronomy does not speak of the disbelief of gods, but merely the belief of other gods. 

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy." -1 Corinthians 7:12-14  

"Don't team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?" -2 Corinthians 6:14

It's interesting to note that 1 Corinthians seems to contradict with Deuteronomy. Perhaps it falls under the new covenant restored by Jesus?

2 Corinthians seems strange though. The phrase "How can light live with darkness?" is contradictory in itself, because darkness (the absense of light) is entirely dependent on light. 

What are your thoughts? 

EDIT: I made a few clarifications. 

Genetic_Code

You don't really give evidence as to why sex before marriage is immoral... it just seems to be a negative emotional reaction on your part. :?Funky_Llama

It's not for reproductive reasons and additionally, you're risking creating a life that you should not be allowed to abort. Also, having sex with multiple people ruins the effect of bonding with one person. If that's the drum you march to, fine.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Genetic_Code

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

I'm still trying to grasp 'why'. It is a natural process to reproduce, is it not? 

I'm still trying to grasp 'why'. It is a natural process to reproduce, is it not? 

Lansdowne5

Yes, I should clarify that I don't think it's immoral to reproduce. I find the act itself as disgusting, but the end result to be precious. 

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]You don't really give evidence as to why sex before marriage is immoral... it just seems to be a negative emotional reaction on your part. :?Genetic_Code

It's not for reproductive reasons and additionally, you're risking creating a life that you should not be allowed to abort. Also, having sex with multiple people ruins the effect of bonding with one person. If that's the drum you march to, fine.

And I take your point about having sex with multiple people, but that wouldn't make it wrong so much as just a bad idea.

What's your reasons for thinking that masturbation is wrong, by the way?

Just because it's not for reproductive reasons doesn't mean it's wrong. As for the creation of life, contraception is your friend. :PFunky_Llama

Contraception isn't always reliable though and it ruins the original purpose of sex being used for reproduction. 

And I take your point about having sex with multiple people, but that wouldn't make it wrong so much as just a bad idea.Funky_Llama

Maybe so... but to me, it's a slippery slope and it is just wrong. Humans want to feel cared for. If we let sex be inclusive, there won't be any form of bonding to distinguish relationships. Everyone becomes essentially the same.

What's your reasons for thinking that masturbation is wrong, by the way?Funky_Llama

For the same reasons scheming murder is wrong. 

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

I'm still trying to grasp 'why'. It is a natural process to reproduce, is it not? 

Genetic_Code

Yes, I should clarify that I don't think it's immoral to reproduce. I find the act itself as disgusting, but the end result to be precious. 

I find the act itself disgusting only if it is in premarital relations. If it is being used as the ultimate act of showing Love between a Husband and Wife joined in marriage I think it is a beautiful thing.

You said you find premarital sex as immortal.. then said that atheists shouldn't marry.

Aren't you atheist?  Doesn't that mean that all sex for an atheist is immoral?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Just because it's not for reproductive reasons doesn't mean it's wrong. As for the creation of life, contraception is your friend. :PGenetic_Code

Contraception isn't always reliable though and it ruins the original purpose of sex being used for reproduction. 

And I take your point about having sex with multiple people, but that wouldn't make it wrong so much as just a bad idea.Funky_Llama

Maybe so... but to me, it's a slippery slope and it is just wrong. Humans want to feel cared for. If we let sex be inclusive, there won't be any form of bonding to distinguish relationships. Everyone becomes essentially the same.

What's your reasons for thinking that masturbation is wrong, by the way?Funky_Llama

For the same reasons scheming murder is wrong. 

But isn't it possible to have 'no strings attached' sex? And wouldn't this mean that genuine, loving relationships with a person are distinguished from screwing someone for the hell of it? Also, Isn't the 'slippery slope' thing a logical fallacy anyway? :?

Masturbation isn't a 'plan' to have sex though. And personally, though carrying it out is of course a terrible act, I think it's pretty debatable whether planning murder is immoral.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

I'm still trying to grasp 'why'. It is a natural process to reproduce, is it not? 

Lansdowne5

Yes, I should clarify that I don't think it's immoral to reproduce. I find the act itself as disgusting, but the end result to be precious. 

I find the act itself disgusting only if it is in premarital relations. If it is being used as the ultimate act of showing Love between a Husband and Wife joined in marriage I think it is a beautiful thing.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Genetic_Code

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

helium_flash

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Lansdowne5

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

You said you find premarital sex as immortal.. then said that atheists shouldn't marry.

Aren't you atheist?  Doesn't that mean that all sex for an atheist is immoral?

helium_flash

Yes and no.

I don't think it's immoral that atheists marry. I think it's unadvisable to, particularly the progressive atheists who want to redefine marriage until this is a clear unity between every party on what the acceptable terms of marriage should be, but that may never happen. 

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Lansdowne5

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

Lions are able to have sex over 30 times a day.  Bonobos use sex from everything to forgiving someone to celebrating.  Just because people have sex to reproduce does not mean sex is exclusively used to reproduce.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Funky_Llama

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

I would have to agree. What's natural doen't necessarily equate to what is moral. However, being a Christian I obviously have the view that premarital sex 'is' immoral because it goes against God's Word.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

helium_flash

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

Lions are able to have sex over 30 times a day.  Bonobos use sex from everything to forgiving someone to celebrating.  Just because people have sex to reproduce does not mean sex is exclusively used to reproduce.

You're very knowledgeable on the subject? :P

I'm going to have to do some reading. Do you have any links? 

Hey, there's always the morning-after pill. And ruining that original purpose isn't necessarily immoral...Funky_Llama

The morning-after pill is a joke. It's like going into a crowded mall and shooting randomly and justifying the actions as an unintended consequence. The original purpose makes sex separate from any other form of bonding though.

But isn't it possible to have 'no strings attached' sex? And wouldn't this mean that genuine, loving relationships with a person are distinguished from screwing someone for the hell of it? Also, Isn't the 'slippery slope' thing a logical fallacy anyway? :?Funky_Llama

Perhaps, and you're right. Slippery slope is a logical fallacy. I'm using it incorrectly. I gather that in a consensual relationship that you could hypothetically reproduce without being married, but wouldn't it make more sense to make that bonding legal?

Masturbation isn't a 'plan' to have sex though. And personally, though carrying it out is of course a terrible act, I think it's pretty debatable whether planning murder is immoral.Funky_Llama

It may not be a plan to have sex, but it is certainly a desire to have sex, and would it be moral for someone to desire murdering someone else? So in fact, it's worse than mere planning, because you desire it.

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Do you mean just the raw idea of it? And also, do you consider anything other than doing it for reproductive purposes immoral because it's unnatural?

Lansdowne5

Any form of intercourse is wrong. I think kissing is okay, but I think it should be done in private and not be provocative. I also think thinking about it is wrong additionally, although I've read that masturbating is considered healthy. Honestly, I think masturbating is appalling as well, but I cannot cast the first stone, as the saying goes.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

But it's not what's natural, is it? Reproduction is natural, but manipulating reproduction for self pleasure is certainly not. 

Sex after marriage, period. I absolutely despise the "test drive a car" analogy people use; it lowers people to the status of objects to be tested out. Sex is not the meaning of marriage (unless you're a hardcore naturalist, but nobody cares what they think anyway), and if two people have issues in bed then I do not think that crosses over into the rest of the marriage unless one or both people have messed up priorities.

I'm not against sex at all, nor am I against masturbation (believe me >_>), but promiscuity and "casual sex" is repulsive.

Why are you so against what is natural?  It almost seems like you've been brainwashed by conservatives that sex is an evil act that should only happen when you want children.

helium_flash

I'm not brainwashed. I viewed the opinions of both conservatives and liberals and liberals base their arguments on materialism and on pleasure, not caring much for value. Conservatives on the other hand base their arguments on values.

 

Plus, sex is just as healthy as materbating.  Sex while a woman is pregnant also helps loosen the cervix, making giving birth easier.  So I can't say I agree with you at all here.

helium_flash

Maybe so.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Hey, there's always the morning-after pill. And ruining that original purpose isn't necessarily immoral...Genetic_Code

The morning-after pill is a joke. It's like going into a crowded mall and shooting randomly and justifying the actions as an unintended consequence. The original purpose makes sex separate from any other form of bonding though.

But isn't it possible to have 'no strings attached' sex? And wouldn't this mean that genuine, loving relationships with a person are distinguished from screwing someone for the hell of it? Also, Isn't the 'slippery slope' thing a logical fallacy anyway? :?Funky_Llama

Perhaps, and you're right. Slippery slope is a logical fallacy. I'm using it incorrectly. I gather that in a consensual relationship that you could hypothetically reproduce without being married, but wouldn't it make more sense to make that bonding legal?

Masturbation isn't a 'plan' to have sex though. And personally, though carrying it out is of course a terrible act, I think it's pretty debatable whether planning murder is immoral.Funky_Llama

It may not be a plan to have sex, but it is certainly a desire to have sex, and would it be moral for someone to desire murdering someone else? So in fact, it's worse than mere planning, because you desire it.

Indeed, perhaps it would. But what's in question here isn't what makes sense, but what is moral.

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

Funky_Llama

Would you say that it's healthy for a person who really wants to marry and have sex to remain celibate his whole life?

I'm not sure what to think at the moment but this wiki article on the bonobo's and their sexual behaviour is fascinating, and absolutely disgusting at the same time - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo 

I don't get it, are you saying that the morning-after pill is immoral?Funky_Llama

Very immoral. 

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.Funky_Llama

Meh. The ends don't justify the means. The ends depend on the means.

I'm not sure what to think at the moment but this wiki article on the bonobo's and their sexual behaviour is fascinating, and absolutely disgusting at the same time - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo 

Lansdowne5

It must be easy for you, and I don't mean this as a joke, but in a scenario like this, all you have to do is refer to the Bible for the final answer. The hard part is putting that faith into action. 

For atheists, we don't have the answers, nevertheless the faith needed to put our absense of answers into action. 

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

Theokhoth

Would you say that it's healthy for a person who really wants to marry and have sex to remain celibate his whole life?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]I don't get it, are you saying that the morning-after pill is immoral?Genetic_Code

Very immoral. 

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.Funky_Llama

Meh. The ends don't justify the means. The ends depend on the means.

Why? :? Oh God, this is going to end up as an abortion debate.

But that doesn't necessarily render the means immoral

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

Funky_Llama

Would you say that it's healthy for a person who really wants to marry and have sex to remain celibate his whole life?

Then you contradict yourself. A negative effect is happening based on someone not doing what they desire to do. Unless you consider "unhealthy" to be a positive effect.

Its always wrong

but I will not force it upon people. The only victims of this offense are the participants and God.

of course, they will one day have to stand before god and give an account. Belief in ultimate accountability for injustices is probably one of the reasons I could never be an Atheist.

I'm cool with consensual (that is, permission, not legal age of consent) premarital sex. I haven't had it, but I have no plans to wait until I get married. It just doesn't matter to me. However, I'll probably wait 'til I'm in some sort of meaningful relationship for my first time, just because I hold a rather typical romantic and emotional view of these things.

AlternatingCaps

Took the words right out of my mouth. I see absolutely nothing wrong with premarital sex. 

I have to say, GC, that your view on this subject is pretty unusual. :P Sorry if you answered this somewhere else in the thread, but why do you find premarital sex to be immoral (seeing as you are an atheist)?

With my limited knowledge on the subject, I have to agree that atheists probably shouldn't get married as it seems to have religious origins. As you said, love doesn't need writing for it to be true. On the other hand, I see no reason for atheists to abstain from sex. 

I think sex is an amazing thing (never done it lol) and as many amazing things sometimes we are afraid of them and we need to put some restrictions. Anyway, I don't believe that marriage should count at all when it comes to sex, simply because marriage is a way to make sure (not effectively anymore) that your partner won't cheat on you. I think that as religion is not necessary to be moral, marriage is not necessary to respect your partner and be faithful to him/her.

For me sex (although mostly physical, and I don't call it a sin) is the ultimate connection between two people that can even help build their relationship. I have nothing against casual sex as long as its done respectfuly. And I don't think sex is so much enjoyable for no reason and I most deffinetely don't think it's only meant for the reproduction of the human species. And no, the reason is not because satan placed a great pleasurable temptation in our nature to drag us to hell. As with all things, like education (educated scientists =/= educated bomb researchers), sex has a good side and a bad side. It's only upon our choice which one we will face and take pleasure from.

The fact that sex can lead you into bad things (cheating etc.) is not a proof that it is evil in nature but because people don't know how to harness it. And I don't find it wrong to desire someone so much that you want to get intimate with him/her. The notion of sex as something sinful is created by us alone and sex is not evil by its nature.

I have to say, GC, that your view on this subject is pretty unusual. :P Sorry if you answered this somewhere else in the thread, but why do you find premarital sex to be immoral (seeing as you are an atheist)?

Forerunner-117

Theokhoth says it best that we shouldn't reduce people as objects to merely experiment with. That, and sex is a gateway that should be reserved for marriage. I have no problem with couples that get married and don't have sex. Actually, I have a problem with couples that get married just to have sex, which is what Paul seems to endorse in the Bible. That's another point that I'd like to emphasize.

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"]

I have to say, GC, that your view on this subject is pretty unusual. :P Sorry if you answered this somewhere else in the thread, but why do you find premarital sex to be immoral (seeing as you are an atheist)?

Genetic_Code

Theokhoth says it best that we shouldn't reduce people as objects to merely experiment with. That, and sex is a gateway that should be reserved for marriage. I have no problem with couples that get married and don't have sex. Actually, I have a problem with couples that get married just to have sex, which is what Paul seems to endorse in the Bible. That's another point that I'd like to emphasize.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

Theokhoth

Would you say that it's healthy for a person who really wants to marry and have sex to remain celibate his whole life?

Then you contradict yourself. A negative effect is happening based on someone not doing what they desire to do. Unless you consider "unhealthy" to be a positive effect.

[QUOTE="7guns"]Do you consider sex immoral according to religion? If you have any other reasons beside the religious one, please share. I want to understand your standpoint better.Genetic_Code

No. I find premarital sex immoral. I find any intercourse as appalling.

EDIT: The Bible quotes were there for me to question whether or not a Christian could date a non-believer, not for my own beliefs (obviously). There's just this weird intuition I have with so-called Christians who interpret the Bible enough where it allows them to literally do as they please. That's why I think that if a Christian has to reinterpret the Bible in order to have a relationship with a non-believer, it goes against their code of conduct and they might as well abandon their faith or abandon their relationship.

How do I know that they can trust me when they can't even trust the God they claim to worship? Shouldn't God be greater than me? If she cannot even trust the Word of God that she asserts it to be, then what business does she have trusting me and why should I trust her? That's not love. That makes her out to be a liar.

Fortunately, I don't think that one requires a massive reinterpretation of the Bible in order to justify a Christian for dating a non-believer, but I'd like to hear some opinions. I probably should have not made a thread discussing two weakly related ideas.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

As a utilitarian, I'd say it's morally permissible for someone to desire murdering someone else. As long as you don't carry out that desire, no negative effect is happening.

Funky_Llama

Would you say that it's healthy for a person who really wants to marry and have sex to remain celibate his whole life?

Then you contradict yourself. A negative effect is happening based on someone not doing what they desire to do. Unless you consider "unhealthy" to be a positive effect.

Why is morality only based on what happens to other people?

Feelings, G_C are not so absolute and there are no boundaries in the process of turning one feeling to another. Everything is so fluid inside someones head and heart (metaphoricaly). As for the belief in God I think that's easy for me to answer. If a person is acting to me like the example you gave then I would think the following: 1: He/She may not even realy believe in God. The reason why people profess to believe in God but realy don't are not so obvious nor so cynical. As I said everything is very fluid even for someone with a steady character (that's just human imo). So when someone has faith, it is possible that at the same time has doubt and at the same time sadness because he/she felt a doubt about it. People most of times start to believe in God because other told them to. The process to doubting, or to totally reject is an ongoing one and has nothing to do with how this person feels about other people. This opinion of yours is too absolute to conclude to, imo.Teenaged

Quite possibly so. I think there are more atheists than people confess to be.

In fact, I remember when I became very religious two years ago, I used to think that perhaps 90% of Americans (and this was in the Bible belt) were atheists simply on the way they acted and took religion very insincerely and dressed it up as something I felt that it wasn't. I was so stunned to find that they were Christians.

I also think it's weird how I was so liberal when I was a Christian as though to bridge the differences between me and them, and then the more I dabbed with atheism, the more unsatisfied I became with liberalism.

As for your basis of my emotions, I will contend that you are partially correct in that, I'm basing this primarily on a perspective of mine more than something I can merely yield to as authoritative. To me, it is authoritative enough. It is a mechanism that shapes it own rules. Mind you, no third party is in harm's ways so any legal case I could bring in favor it is useless with what I have formulated, but I still contend that premarital sex is immoral.