Think of the children!

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dracula_16

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#1 dracula_16
Member since 2005 • 15969 Posts

One of the biggest problems I have with organized religions is their habit of force-feeding their beliefs onto children. A child's mind is not fully developed, which makes them easy to control and decieve. I'm not going to be dogmatic here, but if a parent fills their child's head with images of Satan and hellfire, is that not child abuse?

If you had children, would you indoctrinate them into your way of thinking? (in the context of religion, of course)

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#2 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

First of all, a Christian warning their children of Satan is like any parent telling their children to wear their seat belt. Christians are very sure of Satan's existence and as such will nurture them in a way to prevent them from receiving his hellfire. I do not see it as child abuse or brainwashing, but it's common sense that a parent's nurturing will greatly factor in what that child believes in when they're older.

I will teach my children anything that I know that I find relevant to them, but I will not teach them my views about religion unless they ask them about it. See, the deal with false doctrines is that they only become a problem when they become relevant, which will likely happen if a Jehovah's Witness comes to the door and my child asks about it. I do not plan on having my children go to worship unless they are willing to go. In which case, my wife and/or I will take them to oversee that they are being properly taken care of and that the church is safe for my children. I can only see my children wanting to go to worship if I married a religious wife though, which I still contemplate whether I can accept such a marriage.

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foxhound_fox

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#3 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

First of all, a Christian warning their children of Satan is like any parent telling their children to wear their seat belt. [...] Genetic_Code


Unless of course they use the fear as a tool of control. "Warning them about Satan" and telling them "If you don't do X, you will be sent to Hell forever, so do it now!" are different things.

~~~

I do agree that force-feeding religious belief is child abuse. Any child should be exposed to their parents' religion(s) and a variety of other world religions and left to choose what it right for them (even if no religion at all). Not allowing them the freedom to choose is violating their right of freedom of thought, consciousness and expression.

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#4 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

Unless of course they use the fear as a tool of control. "Warning them about Satan" and telling them "If you don't do X, you will be sent to Hell forever, so do it now!" are different things.foxhound_fox

Directing them to do something to avoid hell is hardly different than warning them about children. Besides, many parents do that in the form of Santa Clause. They tell their children that they are going to receive a bag of coal for Christmas, instead of some luxurious gift, because they did poorly the past year. No one complains about that.
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foxhound_fox

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#5 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Directing them to do something to avoid hell is hardly different than warning them about children. Besides, many parents do that in the form of Santa Clause. They tell their children that they are going to receive a bag of coal for Christmas, instead of some luxurious gift, because they did poorly the past year. No one complains about that.Genetic_Code

I do complain about that, actually. And you missed my point. Telling them "don't be lustful or you could end up in Hell" is different than "do X or God will send you to Hell". I don't doubt there are a lot of parents out there who use Satan and Hell much like Santa Clause. Not to mention the Church (specifically the Catholic Church) uses fear of Hell as a means of maintaining faith. Where it would make more sense to have people voluntarily join the religion than be crippled by fear for what might happen to them if they don't agree.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#6 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

I do complain about that, actually. And you missed my point. Telling them "don't be lustful or you could end up in Hell" is different than "do X or God will send you to Hell". I don't doubt there are a lot of parents out there who use Satan and Hell much like Santa Clause. Not to mention the Church (specifically the Catholic Church) uses fear of Hell as a means of maintaining faith. Where it would make more sense to have people voluntarily join the religion than be crippled by fear for what might happen to them if they don't agree.foxhound_fox

Correction: Some people complain about Santa Clause, but not nearly enough.

I don't see a legal problem with parents using fear to corrupt their children, but I do see an ethical problem. Sometimes fear is necessary though, when it's realistic. For example, telling your children that they may develop lung cancer if they smoke is a rational fear.

I also missed your point on there being a difference between "don't be lustful or you could end up in Hell" and "do X or God will send you to Hell". Can't X mean being virtuous in imagining situations with people of the sex you're attracted to, therefore making the two statements similar?

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foxhound_fox

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#7 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

I also missed your point on there being a difference between "don't be lustful or you could end up in Hell" and "do X or God will send you to Hell". Can't X mean being virtuous in imagining situations with people of the sex you're attracted to, therefore making the two statements similar?

Genetic_Code

The difference is "could" and "will." "Could" implies there is only a chance of something happening, while "will" implies that something is definite.

Could

"If you act lustful, you could end up in Hell if you aren't careful."

Will


"If you act a certain way (lustful being a possibility), you will end up in Hell."

It is a subtle difference, but could mean a whole different effect on the child's mind.
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mindstorm

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#8 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

Personally I think parents and the church could do a much better job at teaching children about Christianity.  At least in my experiences, I knew the stories about how so-and-so did something good and received good.  I knew the stories about how what's-his-name did something bad and received bad.  Essentially, I could tell you the morality of Christianity, heaven was good, and hell was bad.  I do not like this.

I don't know if I simply was not taught well or if God had not opened my heart to him just yet, but I missed something major along the way.  I could recite the "ABC's of becoming a Christian" but couldn't tell you what it meant to follow Christ.  I could tell you by doing bad you would go to hell but didn't realize we all deserve that just punishment.  I didn't understand what it meant to rejoice in God's grace.  I knew about morality by obligation but not being holy as God is holy.  The God I learned about was one who sent bad people to hell and good people to heaven.  I knew about being a good though hypocritical person but not about being a transparent though repentant person.

I say all of that to say this, there are good and bad ways to teach a child about Christ. In my experiences, those who tried to teach me did so with great intentions but I took the wrong message (as I said earlier, whether that was my fault or theirs, I can't say I know for certain).

There are two major ways of teaching a child about Christianity, by teaching religion and by teaching Jesus.  The latter is a much better option, the option I will use when teaching my own children one day.

To address the OP more clearly, I support both teaching a child about the faith (as Scripture puts it, "In the ways that you'd have them to go.") but doing so in such a way that the child has a choice.  As an example of this, I plan to teach my children about various religions and beliefs but I am also going to express how I feel about those various beliefs.  Heck, this is how I go about teaching my Bible study and Sunday School classes.  Whomever listens to me has the choice to obey or disobey.

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RationalAtheist

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#9 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

One of the biggest problems I have with organized religions is their habit of force-feeding their beliefs onto children. A child's mind is not fully developed, which makes them easy to control and decieve. I'm not going to be dogmatic here, but if a parent fills their child's head with images of Satan and hellfire, is that not child abuse?

If you had children, would you indoctrinate them into your way of thinking? (in the context of religion, of course)

dracula_16

Absolutely - the education phase of our society attempts to enable people to reason for themselves. All sorts of bias from parents and educators comes into this, religious, gender, cultural and more. Also, modern western educational theory (what there is of it) asserts positive behaviour modification is more successful than negative forms of behaviour control, but both can have a plave in someone's up-bringing.

But I think religious indoctrination is a small part (to varying degrees) of the total "cultural indoctrination package" we hand to our off-spring. Perhaps its foolish to think one would be entirely un-biased and transparent, as that isn't in many people's natures. What we might see as being "good parenting" might be seen by others as "abuse". i.e. Is it a good thing to fill a childs head up with dreams of toy guns and give them freedom the fantasise about killing people? Or congratulating someone on spending their education training to be a beautician? That's one reason why I have no regret or desire to have children myself.

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maheo30

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#10 maheo30
Member since 2006 • 5102 Posts

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I do complain about that, actually. And you missed my point. Telling them "don't be lustful or you could end up in Hell" is different than "do X or God will send you to Hell". I don't doubt there are a lot of parents out there who use Satan and Hell much like Santa Clause. Not to mention the Church (specifically the Catholic Church) uses fear of Hell as a means of maintaining faith. Where it would make more sense to have people voluntarily join the religion than be crippled by fear for what might happen to them if they don't agree.Genetic_Code

Correction: Some people complain about Santa Clause, but not nearly enough.

I don't see a legal problem with parents using fear to corrupt their children, but I do see an ethical problem.

I'm not getting how it is an ethical problem. Isn't Christianity just another competing system of morality? You may not like it, but isn't that just your subjective view? Many religions believe in some sort of evil figure. Aren't they also just competing systems of morality? So should we outlaw telling your kid Satan will get you if you get into the occult? And if we do so on what basis? I can see doing it on an "I'm stronger than you are so do what I say" basis, but not on any objectively ethical grounds. I hope that made sense. It is late and my brain is going.

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blazingsaddle95

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#11 blazingsaddle95
Member since 2009 • 2605 Posts
It does seem kinda wrong to fill a kid's head with demonic images, but it depends on what the kid imagines. Their image of hell may be different than someone elses. For example, my image of hell is being stuck in an elevator with Justin Bieber.
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Gambler_3

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#12 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

I am totally against children being associated with any sort of religion, this is one of the things I deeply hate about religion. In the muslim culture children are told that you should never show your back to an open quran, OMFG are you kidding me?? It obviously doesnt need to be said what they are told about the prophet. It is primarily this unconditional respect instilled in children about their religion which never allows them to fully critically question their religion ever.

I mainly oppose telling your children that only their religion is right and everyone else is wrong. Honestly the world would be much better off without that sort of a belief.

Objectively there is no argument though, if a parent sincerely believes that following a particular religion is the "best" option let alone the only right option then why wouldnt they want to make sure their children are that way as well? I would definitely try my best to make sure my children are not superstitious at all.

There are also parents who think god will punish them if their children are "sinners", what a pathetic thing to believe.

Ultimately indoctrinating children isnt exactly as illogical a position as some would think, it actually is a logical position for a real religious person. What is wholly illogical is being religious in the first place and that's what we should severelly criticize cuz until you cant show a believer that his ways are irrational and senseless, why would he not indoctrinate his children?Â