The TCWU Problem

And in regard to the "believe in God or go to hell" thing I've never done that and the Bible does not teach us to use scare tactics, moreover the opposite - Love.

Lansdowne5

just beacose you didn't do it doesn't mean most others haven't.

the "way of the master guy" is quite happy with his "you are a sinner and going to hell"

but I don't have a problem with that, I think it's fun^^

In a sense, the aim 'is' to convert them, but not 'force' them to be converted. We have a clear outline of what to do from the Bible.

Evangelism is not manipulative at all, it is showing people what the Bible says is the truth, they have free will and can choose whatever they want to believe. And in regard to the "believe in God or go to hell" thing I've never done that and the Bible does not teach us to use scare tactics, moreover the opposite - Love.

By the way, most discussions in life on issues, be it relgious, political, a favourite game or movie is the sharing and discussions of beliefs or opinions on the topic. When you come to the off topic threads and attempt to disprove God's existence, that is evangalizing for Atheism.

The reality, is that most Atheists just wish to silence the Gospel and the truth of Christianity.

Lansdowne5

Free will can be influenced and we all know it!

Good or bad, scare tactics or love tactics, it's still a *tactics* that influences free will, and sometimes in an unfair way, that makes people do irrational and bad things and they don't even feel bad about it because it is rational according to god's law. This seems to be the case with many religions. Take a long and hard look at the definition of free-will.It is not impermeable to manipulation.

The same can be said about pretty much all religions. And also, we can't just give up, because religion never gives up.

NOTE: Not all athiests are preachers and in the same way not all religious people are preachers.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

In a sense, the aim 'is' to convert them, but not 'force' them to be converted. We have a clear outline of what to do from the Bible.

Evangelism is not manipulative at all, it is showing people what the Bible says is the truth, they have free will and can choose whatever they want to believe. And in regard to the "believe in God or go to hell" thing I've never done that and the Bible does not teach us to use scare tactics, moreover the opposite - Love.

By the way, most discussions in life on issues, be it relgious, political, a favourite game or movie is the sharing and discussions of beliefs or opinions on the topic. When you come to the off topic threads and attempt to disprove God's existence, that is evangalizing for Atheism.

The reality, is that most Atheists just wish to silence the Gospel and the truth of Christianity.

7guns

Free will can be influenced and we all know it!

Good or bad, scare tactics or love tactics, it's still a *tactics* that influences free will, and sometimes in an unfair way, that makes people do irrational and bad things and they don't even feel bad about it because it is rational according to god's law. This seems to be the case with many religions. Take a long and hard look at the definition of free-will.It is not impermeable to manipulation.

The same can be said about pretty much all religions. And also, we can't just give up, because religion never gives up.

NOTE: Not all athiests are preachers and in the same way not all religious people are preachers.

1. It can be influenced, but that doesn't take away their choice and the ability to check things out for themselves.

2. I never used the word 'tactic' in conjuction with 'love'. The idea is to show them the way of God and let them decide whether to take it or not.

3. So you admit that is the aim then?

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

And in regard to the "believe in God or go to hell" thing I've never done that and the Bible does not teach us to use scare tactics, moreover the opposite - Love.

Enosh88

just beacose you didn't do it doesn't mean most others haven't.

the "way of the master guy" is quite happy with his "you are a sinner and going to hell"

but I don't have a problem with that, I think it's fun^^

What are you using as your basis for 'most others'? Because, no one in our Union does that, nor I would think on the Christian Union. :)

1. It can be influenced, but that doesn't take away their choice and the ability to check things out for themselves.

2. I never used the word 'tactic' in conjuction with 'love'. The idea is to show them the way of God and let them decide whether to take it or not.

3. So you admit that is the aim then?

Lansdowne5

1. You cannot blame them, for their inability to think clearly, on their free will. Evangelism may not influence their free will but it can reform the way they think in the first place, and when that happens there may not be a reason to force their free will.

2. In many cases humans do not act logically or in a way that is good for them. But that doesn't mean our acts are random. Sometimes we let all sorts of emotions and desires to delude us. We can be logical through skepticism.But when it comes to preaching, you expect all the people to be 100% logical? Suppose there is this guy, a total mess, taking drugs, doing things that is bad for him and others, and people hate him for it and consequently he is lonely. This guy pretty much doesn't know or care what is good for him. Then one day he hears this guy preaching and embraces a certain religion. It's possible(Don't get me wrong! I am definitely not insinuating religious people are like that. It's just an example that people can act irrationally). Now would you say that his actions were perfectly logical, when he embraced a religion through his free will? Do you really believe that out of all the irrational decisions he has made in his life, this is somehow the only one that he made logically?

3. So, when you preach in a forum, do you not expect others to also voice their opinions. Or is it a totally different case with athiests?

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

1. It can be influenced, but that doesn't take away their choice and the ability to check things out for themselves.

2. I never used the word 'tactic' in conjuction with 'love'. The idea is to show them the way of God and let them decide whether to take it or not.

3. So you admit that is the aim then?

7guns

1. You cannot blame them, for their inability to think clearly, on their free will. Evangelism may not influence their free will but it can reform the way they think in the first place, and when that happens there may not be a reason to force their free will.

2. In many cases humans do not act logically or in a way that is good for them. But that doesn't mean our acts are random. Sometimes we let all sorts of emotions and desires to delude us. We can be logical through skepticism.But when it comes to preaching, you expect all the people to be 100% logical? Suppose there is this guy, a total mess, taking drugs, doing things that is bad for him and others, and people hate him for it and consequently he is lonely. This guy pretty much doesn't know or care what is good for him. Then one day he hears this guy preaching and embraces a certain religion. It's possible(Don't get me wrong! I am definitely not insinuating religious people are like that. It's just an example that people can act irrationally). Now would you say that his actions were perfectly logical, when he embraced a religion through his free will? Do you really believe that out of all the irrational decisions he has made in his life, this is somehow the only one that he made logically?

3. So, when you preach in a forum, do you not expect others to also voice their opinions. Or is it a totally different case with athiests?

1. Lol. If they watched TV they could be reinformed of what they thought in the first place. If they went and talked to the neighbour they could be reinformed of what they thought in the first place. By that logic, you'd have to stay completely isolated your entire life to avoid being reinformed of what you thought in the first place.

2. Again, this would apply to almost any choice he made while he was in that state. It might not be the rational decision, but on the other hand, if he did convert to Christianity, it might save his life before it was too late.

3. No, I expect others to voice their opinions.

1. Lol. If they watched TV they could be reinformed of what they thought in the first place. If they went and talked to the neighbour they could be reinformed of what they thought in the first place. By that logic, you'd have to stay completely isolated your entire life to avoid being reinformed of what you thought in the first place.

2. Again, this would apply to almost any choice he made while he was in that state. It might not be the rational decision, but on the other hand, if he did convert to Christianity, it might save his life before it was too late.

3. No, I expect others to voice their opinions.

Lansdowne5

1. Media is more influencial than what people make them out to be.

But how can you compare religious scriptures to my neighbour's rant ?

2. Although you got sidetracked a bit I do agree with you on this statement upto some extent.

3. settled!

Attempts at "disproving" God are futile. Atheists are wasting their time in this regard.Genetic_Code

People will always argue with each other when it comes to this affair. I say let them.

Attempts at "disproving" God are futile. Atheists are wasting their time in this regard.Genetic_Code

I agree, I really think we should make a sticky just for these kind of discussions. Because if every thread we have here devolves into disproving God and others trying to prove God we're not getting anywhere discussion wise.

Lansdowne5, what would you say if I told you that I know what you believe about Jesus, but I have made my decision. I doubt many evangelists would give up upon hearing that. In western society Christianity is practically inescapeable. One is going to stumble across the character of Jesus sooner or later. It is for the person to decide whether the beliefs appeal to them. I don't see why evangelists should try and convince them of a certain opinion.Junkie_man

See the problem with that is that everyone already has a biased opinion of God and his Word. If we don't evangelize, the majority of people will go on thinking, "Yeah right. I don't believe in a big dude with a beard floating up in the clouds".

We have been instructed to spread the Good News by the Lord, and many people have found Salvation because of our efforts. If we were to stop now, fewer and fewer people will be saved.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]Lansdowne5, what would you say if I told you that I know what you believe about Jesus, but I have made my decision. I doubt many evangelists would give up upon hearing that. In western society Christianity is practically inescapeable. One is going to stumble across the character of Jesus sooner or later. It is for the person to decide whether the beliefs appeal to them. I don't see why evangelists should try and convince them of a certain opinion.Lansdowne5

See the problem with that is that everyone already has a biased opinion of God and his Word. If we don't evangelize, the majority of people will go on thinking, "Yeah right. I don't believe in a big dude with a beard floating up in the clouds".

We have been instructed to spread the Good News by the Lord, and many people have found Salvation because of our efforts. If we were to stop now, fewer and fewer people will be saved.

Here's the problem, if you ask anyone even your best friend at your church Lansdowne a question about his beliefs, he will give a radically different answer than you do to the same question. That's the problem with religion I see, if everyone can't agree on what Jesus/God wants us to do or make of what was written in the Bible how can anyone take it serious enough to base their whole lives on it?

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]Lansdowne5, what would you say if I told you that I know what you believe about Jesus, but I have made my decision. I doubt many evangelists would give up upon hearing that. In western society Christianity is practically inescapeable. One is going to stumble across the character of Jesus sooner or later. It is for the person to decide whether the beliefs appeal to them. I don't see why evangelists should try and convince them of a certain opinion.Lansdowne5

See the problem with that is that everyone already has a biased opinion of God and his Word. If we don't evangelize, the majority of people will go on thinking, "Yeah right. I don't believe in a big dude with a beard floating up in the clouds".

We have been instructed to spread the Good News by the Lord, and many people have found Salvation because of our efforts. If we were to stop now, fewer and fewer people will be saved.

But what I'm saying is what applied when Christianity was a minor Judaic cult might not apply when it is the biggest religion in the world. I'msaying is that it needed to be spread then, because it was obscure. Now the onus should perhaps be on the non-believers, as it is so easy to find out about Christian theology.

Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.felixlynch777

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Lansdowne5

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

His point is ridiculous, even for him; I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty damn sure that the issue of religion is closely tied to atheism, and thus is likely to be discussed on the forum of the atheism union.

Besides which, he has absolutely no evidence to prove his point whatsoever. Still... that's nothing new for him.

[QUOTE="7guns"]

What is this "good news" ?

Lansdowne5

The promise and hope of salvation that Jesus provides for all people of all nations. :)

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="7guns"]

What is this "good news" ?

Funky_Llama

The promise and hope of salvation that Jesus provides for all people of all nations. :)

Bad news? Maybe in the future, for unbelievers. At the present, it is very much good news, as there is still hope. :)

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Funky_Llama

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

His point is ridiculous, even for him; I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty damn sure that the issue of religion is closely tied to atheism, and thus is likely to be discussed on the forum of the atheism union.

Besides which, he has absolutely no evidence to prove his point whatsoever. Still... that's nothing new for him.

Or maybe, it's just that we both get it, and you don't. :D

It's not ridiculous, and if you think it is, maybe you should ask yourself why you come on these forums and argue the fact that there is no God. It's quite telling.

The proof is in the pudding, and it is clearly demonstrated by every Atheist member of this Union. 

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="7guns"]

What is this "good news" ?

Lansdowne5

The promise and hope of salvation that Jesus provides for all people of all nations. :)

Bad news? Maybe in the future, for unbelievers. At the present, it is very much good news, as there is still hope. :)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Lansdowne5

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

His point is ridiculous, even for him; I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty damn sure that the issue of religion is closely tied to atheism, and thus is likely to be discussed on the forum of the atheism union.

Besides which, he has absolutely no evidence to prove his point whatsoever. Still... that's nothing new for him.

Or maybe, it's just that we both get it, and you don't. :D

It's not ridiculous, and if you think it is, maybe you should ask yourself why you come on these forums and argue the fact that there is no God. It's quite telling.

The proof is in the pudding, and it is clearly demonstrated by every Atheist member of this Union. 

And secondly... if you have evidence of this - and of course, being the rational people TCWU members are, you will :roll: - by all means tell it. And if you don't, why make assertions you don't know to be true?

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="7guns"]

What is this "good news" ?

Funky_Llama

The promise and hope of salvation that Jesus provides for all people of all nations. :)

Bad news? Maybe in the future, for unbelievers. At the present, it is very much good news, as there is still hope. :)

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.  

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Funky_Llama

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

His point is ridiculous, even for him; I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty damn sure that the issue of religion is closely tied to atheism, and thus is likely to be discussed on the forum of the atheism union.

Besides which, he has absolutely no evidence to prove his point whatsoever. Still... that's nothing new for him.

Or maybe, it's just that we both get it, and you don't. :D

It's not ridiculous, and if you think it is, maybe you should ask yourself why you come on these forums and argue the fact that there is no God. It's quite telling.

The proof is in the pudding, and it is clearly demonstrated by every Atheist member of this Union. 

And secondly... if you have evidence of this - and of course, being the rational people TCWU members are, you will :roll: - by all means tell it. And if you don't, why make assertions you don't know to be true?

That makes you agnostic then . . . .

You're fighting the Truth, that's the reason you have to constantly remind yourselves there is no God, and constantly argue against anyone who holds to the belief that there is. Even if you almost convince yourself He doesn't exist, there is still a gap missing.

Lansdowne every atheist here is an agnostic (I think), that's no big surprise.

Remember gnosticism describes what you know, not what you believe.

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.  

Lansdowne5

That makes you agnostic then . . . .

You're fighting the Truth, that's the reason you have to constantly remind yourselves there is no God, and constantly argue against anyone who holds to the belief that there is. Even if you almost convince yourself He doesn't exist, there is still a gap missing.

Lansdowne5

Anyway, your comment fails to prove the whole 'atheists in foxholes' thing. Whether Christianity is true, which it almost certainly is not, is irrelevant; what matters is whether I believe it in my heart of hearts to be true. By the way, which God is it that I secretly believe in? :roll:

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy. The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Lansdowne5

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

First off, the Atheism Union is inclusive. Theists like blackregiment are welcomed here to start threads and in fact, many of those threads listed in his thread were created by theists like Alter_Ego or you Lansdowne5.

Are You Uncomfortable With Putting 'Faith' In Something?

Would You Want An Afterlife?

What Do You Think Is The Most Compelling Evidence 'For' The Existence of God?

What would it take?

What will make you convert to a religion?

The Empty Tomb of Jesus of Nazareth

What are your religious views? Quiz

Judgement.

Have you read the Bible or the Qu'ran?blackregiment

With the exception of the topic regarding the empty tomb of Jesus, all of the bolded topics were made by a TCWU member. I'm having problems with bolding text, but four of the eight topics quoted are by a TCWU member and the other by Alter_Ego.

Additionally, you'll often find that a union centered around asexuality will talk about other people's sexuality, or a union about vegetarianism will talk about meat or my recent favorite union, GameSpot Pro-Lifers, talks about abortion and pro-choice positions. It's not unheard of, and the point blackregiment is trying to make is intellectually dishonest, and I feel sorry for any Christian who buys into that.

Also, I find it interesting that another member likes to brag that "blessed are those that are persecuted" simply because a few of their members' names are mentioned in a thread on Off-Topic. I hate to break it to you, but if mentioning your name in an Off-Topic thread by itself is not the truth. Now, you may very well be correct that Jesus is our Savior for all humanity, but being mentioned doesn't make your words any more truer nor or you any more blessed if you whore out your religion as though it were some prostitute. Also, by your own logic, you are "persecuting" the Atheism Union by merely mentioning it at TCWU.

I don't mean to offend you Lansdowne5. I don't know the extent of your heart and you seem to be a good person (or at least relative to society's low standards, you may hold something different between you and your God). I'm sure blackregiment is a good person as well but I find statements like that appalling.

Perhaps we should all apologize and start anew by closing this thread, no? :)

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.  

Funky_Llama

Whether 'they' accept it or not is unimportant, for the people who 'do' accept it, it is Good News. Also, nobody's gone to Heaven or Hell yet. 

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

That makes you agnostic then . . . .

You're fighting the Truth, that's the reason you have to constantly remind yourselves there is no God, and constantly argue against anyone who holds to the belief that there is. Even if you almost convince yourself He doesn't exist, there is still a gap missing.

Funky_Llama

Anyway, your comment fails to prove the whole 'atheists in foxholes' thing. Whether Christianity is true, which it almost certainly is not, is irrelevant; what matters is whether I believe it in my heart of hearts to be true. By the way, which God is it that I secretly believe in? :roll:

You, and every other person on this planet, believe in the god you just referred to, God. Whether they admit it or not. 

You, and every other person on this planet, believe in the god you just referred to, God. Whether they admit it or not. 

Lansdowne5

However, their idea of god( the uncaused cause in my case) may be very different from your idea of god.

Seriously, I have no idea what TCWU stands for but if you are looking for support for censorship you won't be getting any from me.  Religious people throughout history are notorious for their Orwellian position on public information and I will condone nothing that would lend merit to that behavior.  I personally am too thankful that I can now publicly announce my position to slip back into a society in which people are not allowed that.  If what they are doing is truly without content, it should be easy to ignore it.  If you just don't like what is being said, you don't have a leg to stand on. 

I never dreamed an atheist would support censorship, but I have seen it done in two different threads in this union by more than one person.  While I was fond of the Dawkins phrase "Organizing atheists has been compared to herding cats, because they tend to think independently and will not conform to authority," I suppose never considered the full scope of that statement.   

I always gave atheists in general a bit more credit than this.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

That makes you agnostic then . . . .

You're fighting the Truth, that's the reason you have to constantly remind yourselves there is no God, and constantly argue against anyone who holds to the belief that there is. Even if you almost convince yourself He doesn't exist, there is still a gap missing.

Lansdowne5

Anyway, your comment fails to prove the whole 'atheists in foxholes' thing. Whether Christianity is true, which it almost certainly is not, is irrelevant; what matters is whether I believe it in my heart of hearts to be true. By the way, which God is it that I secretly believe in? :roll:

You, and every other person on this planet, believe in the god you just referred to, God. Whether they admit it or not. 

Anyway... two words: prove it.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.  

Lansdowne5

Whether 'they' accept it or not is unimportant, for the people who 'do' accept it, it is Good News. Also, nobody's gone to Heaven or Hell yet. 

So where are the dead people at the moment? :?

Seriously, I have no idea what TCWU stands for but if you are looking for support for censorship you won't be getting any from me.  Religious people throughout history are notorious for their Orwellian position on public information and I will condone nothing that would lend merit to that behavior.  I personally am too thankful that I can now publicly announce my position to slip back into a society in which people are not allowed that.  If what they are doing is truly without content, it should be easy to ignore it.  If you just don't like what is being said, you don't have a leg to stand on. 

I never dreamed an atheist would support censorship, but I have seen it done in two different threads in this union by more than one person.  While I was fond of the Dawkins phrase "Organizing atheists has been compared to herding cats, because they tend to think independently and will not conform to authority," I suppose never considered the full scope of that statement.   

I always gave atheists in general a bit more credit than this.

 

Sitri_

I think that in general this union is fairly well behaved and not particularly oppressive. Where has somebody tried to censor another? I know about that little threat that Felix made to Lansdowne but I've never seen anything else here that I would count as suppression.

You, and every other person on this planet, believe in the god you just referred to, God. Whether they admit it or not. 

Lansdowne5

This is quite silly.  There are more non-christians throughout history than christians.  Are you saying they all, including those with no knowledge of this god or an upbringing with different gods are simply involved in some sort of mystical masochism?  The god he just refereed to exists only as a phenomenological construct.  If that is your meaning of believing in him you might be able to say anyone who has heard of this judeo-christian god believes in him as a sort of word play, but it still does not in the slightest bit mean what you are trying to make it mean in terms of physical reality.  Such a definition would mean we all believe in flying purple monkeys and leprechauns also.  

I think that in general this union is fairly well behaved and not particularly oppressive. Where has somebody tried to censor another? I know about that little threat that Felix made to Lansdowne but I've never seen anything else here that I would count as suppression.

domatron23

I had a bit of trouble with the acronyms but I got the impression that this thread was saying that someone shouldn't be able to post things from the old testiment or be able to try and convert people.  Several people have stated this in the thread and even mentioned that those trying to do so should be modded.  I think that is cut and dry censorship.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.

Funky_Llama

Whether 'they' accept it or not is unimportant, for the people who 'do' accept it, it is Good News. Also, nobody's gone to Heaven or Hell yet.

So where are the dead people at the moment? :?

They might be in the ground (dead) awaiting the day of Judgment, at least that's waht I think Lan meant.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

We're not talking about the future, we're not living in the future, and the future is not relevant. At 'this' time, it is the Good News because it offers Salvation through Christ.

STWELCH

Whether 'they' accept it or not is unimportant, for the people who 'do' accept it, it is Good News. Also, nobody's gone to Heaven or Hell yet.

So where are the dead people at the moment? :?

I will support you on this. It is my belief, right here and now, that the God that the TCWU seems to be worshipping is uncannily like Hitler Or Stalin. Or Mao.

It is appalling to see that. It honestly is. The God that is Love, the Love that was crucified on the cross is missing from their belief. Their God is vengeance, spiteful, in short, a sadistic cosmic abusive father.

It is people like this that harm Christianity far more than people realize. If this is what they believe Christianity is, let it die, because it is not Christianity. I am sick of the smug attitudes of those who form God into a celestial dictator that has no problem sending countless people to a Hell, all over a bit of difference in theological outlook (i.e. you disagree with there interpretation); and they accept this gleefully, joyfully, happily. It makes me sick, sick to my stomach, for these beliefs torment people to no end, causing damage beyond comprehension. It is these sick beliefs that they hold that makes me weep for the future of Christianity.

And it is these beliefs that almost prevented me from becoming a Christian in the first place, because the image of Christianity, sad as it is, has become these people. And that breaks my heart.

What is OT that is repeatedly referred to here? Sitri_

Off-Topic.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]Ugghh, even more idiocy.The point BR is trying to make is too illogical I can't even be bothered to answer it.Genetic_Code

How many times can you tell yourself it's 'illogical', it's 'wrong', it's 'idiocy'? You're fighting the Truth. God's made himself known to us since the beginning of Creation. If you remove him, there's one heck of a big gap in your life which can never be filled. Sure you can try and substitute it, but God is the only thing which will ever make you feel complete. Relentless argueing against His existence won't make it go away.

First off, the Atheism Union is inclusive. Theists like blackregiment are welcomed here to start threads and in fact, many of those threads listed in his thread were created by theists like Alter_Ego or you Lansdowne5.

Are You Uncomfortable With Putting 'Faith' In Something?

Would You Want An Afterlife?

What Do You Think Is The Most Compelling Evidence 'For' The Existence of God?

What would it take?

What will make you convert to a religion?

The Empty Tomb of Jesus of Nazareth

What are your religious views? Quiz

Judgement.

Have you read the Bible or the Qu'ran?blackregiment

With the exception of the topic regarding the empty tomb of Jesus, all of the bolded topics were made by a TCWU member. I'm having problems with bolding text, but four of the eight topics quoted are by a TCWU member and the other by Alter_Ego.

I created the Judgement topic actually. :)

I find it amusing that they claim our discussions (hell, the entire forming of this union) as being "quite telling", as if it's any more telling than what they are doing. Give me a break.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

I think that in general this union is fairly well behaved and not particularly oppressive. Where has somebody tried to censor another? I know about that little threat that Felix made to Lansdowne but I've never seen anything else here that I would count as suppression.

Sitri_

I had a bit of trouble with the acronyms but I got the impression that this thread was saying that someone shouldn't be able to post things from the old testiment or be able to try and convert people.  Several people have stated this in the thread and even mentioned that those trying to do so should be modded.  I think that is cut and dry censorship.

Ah okay I catch your drift. Those complaints are probably due to the issues of circularity that come from quoting scripture in order to legitimize the Bible and the fact that some evangelical threads have in fact been locked before. I must admit though that I am guilty in some respects of "censorship". I used to complain about evangelistic goals in every one of Crushmaster's threads but I've stopped now because pretty much everyone on OT knows what to expect now plus the threads nowadays are very clear about their purpose.

The words from the mods themselves though is that as long as an evangelism thread promotes discussion it's fine so feel free to tell that to anyone who thinks that conversion attempts deserve moderation.

Oh and:

OT = Off Topic

TCWU = The Christian Witness Union

TAU =  The Atheism Union

Those complaints are probably due to the issues of circularity that come from quoting scripture in order to legitimize the Bible and the fact that some evangelical threads have in fact been locked before. I must admit though that I am guilty in some respects of "censorship". I used to complain about evangelistic goals in every one of Crushmaster's threads but I've stopped now because pretty much everyone on OT knows what to expect now plus the threads nowadays are very clear about their purpose.

domatron23

I used to post from time to time. I don't even remember about what, but I also stopped as well.

Oh and:

OT = Off Topic

TCWU = The Christian Witness Union

TAU =  The Atheism Union

domatron23

I always love it when someone quotes from the Old Testament and someone else thinks it's from Off-Topic. :lol:

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Oh and:

OT = Off Topic

TCWU = The Christian Witness Union

TAU =  The Atheism Union

Genetic_Code

I always love it when someone quotes from the Old Testament and someone else thinks it's from Off-Topic. :lol:

Yeah I've come across that little hiccup a few times as well. Never fails to bring me a smile.

 

Ah okay I catch your drift. Those complaints are probably due to the issues of circularity that come from quoting scripture in order to legitimize the Bible and the fact that some evangelical threads have in fact been locked before. I must admit though that I am guilty in some respects of "censorship". I used to complain about evangelistic goals in every one of Crushmaster's threads but I've stopped now because pretty much everyone on OT knows what to expect now plus the threads nowadays are very clear about their purpose.

The words from the mods themselves though is that as long as an evangelism thread promotes discussion it's fine so feel free to tell that to anyone who thinks that conversion attempts deserve moderation.

Oh and:

OT = Off Topic

TCWU = The Christian Witness Union

TAU =  The Atheism Union

domatron23

Thanks.  I tried to talk a bit in the off topic just now but I really don't have the stamina for it.  There is so much of a battle of wills with no regard for substance that all efforts to put together a researched or well thought out post are completed wasted.  I got a very strong playground feeling there.

I would say that is an excellent place for such dyed in the wool fundamentalists to waste there breathe, a place where no one is really listening.

I created the Judgement topic actually. :)

I find it amusing that they claim our discussions (hell, the entire forming of this union) as being "quite telling", as if it's any more telling than what they are doing. Give me a break.

Rekunta

Thank you for the correction.

OK, now you're just bang out of order. Who do you think you are?

You've just compared God to some of the most evil men in all of human history, and I mean the REAL God, not your severely misguided interpretation of what He is.

You come here on an Atheist Union, disregard God's Revealed Word, agree with Atheists and separate yourself from the Body of Christ. You spread doubt, never try to help anyone find Salvation and never defend the Truth, furthermore mocking the Lord and comparing Him to evil, fallen Men.

You know nothing of what God really is, you're spreading utter falsehood about His people. And if you think what we're really doing IS "sick" then you're lost. 

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." - Galatians 6:7

 

Lansdowne5

You owe much more to moderates like STWELCH than you realize.  If it wasn't for go betweens that paint a more socially and intellectually progressive picture of the religious and maintain the idea that religion is a personal matter that a reasonable person may subscribe to, the fundamentalist would be completely exposed and detested in much larger numbers.  Yes I do think your version of christianity is more true to biblical text, but all that really says is how deficient the bible actually is.  Taking the bible as the literal word of god is something most rational people really cannot accept, especially when having read it.  Can you imagine a world without moderates?  Any person accepting scientific knowledge and societal improvement would absolutely ridicule the religious for insanity.  I personally think fundamentalism merits extreme ridicule but generally refrain because it causes more harm than good.  It runs the risk of alienating otherwise sensible people who still hold a soft spot for tradition and/or wish-thinking.  These moderates provide cloud-cover by flying the same flag as people spreading a ignorant, intolerant message of anti-progress.  So be careful who you lash out at; you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.