suicidals go to hell?

every religious people say that.

I wanna hear words from my fellow atheists

Well most atheists that I know will tell you that hell doesn't exist. I'm not really sure that you'll get any differing opinions from the atheists here. Whether or not suicidals go to hell is more of a theological question.

Even when I was a Christian, hell was a bit of a stretch for me. btaylor2404

Well, anyone who's read my arguments with certain individuals on OT will know what I'd say in response to that. :P

Sometimes people just deserve to die and that can be from sucidals so they can go to heaven or hell if they did good of course heaven if they did bad then hell. I don't believe in this stuff but that would a true person part of christinaty would say.

If there is a hell, then most people who have committed suicide probably belong there. The act itself is almost always selfish. One thing that bugs me is how atheists are more likely to commit suicide.Genetic_Code

every religious people say that.

warrenmats

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

warrenmats

You're an atheist, but you believe in heaven and hell?

[QUOTE="warrenmats"]

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

GabuEx

You're an atheist, but you believe in heaven and hell?

Huh yeah something is fishy here. Maybe he meant "hypothetically if the Christian God existed my friend's dad would have gone to hell".

[QUOTE="warrenmats"]

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

GabuEx

You're an atheist, but you believe in heaven and hell?

Heh. It's theoretically possible, I suppose.Funky_Llama

Oh, I'm not asking that in an accusatory fashion; I'm honestly curious.

Heh. It's theoretically possible, I suppose.Funky_Llama

Indeed it is. Although if we define heaven as "with God" and hell "without God" then it is impossible.

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

warrenmats

[QUOTE="warrenmats"]

Its because some people that are really nice commit suicide sometimes.

my classmates dad commited suicide, and i dont think his dad went to hell

i belive his dad went to heaven, since he was really nice

SSBFan12

i was trying to say that if hell and heaen exsisted.

yes i am atheist

i dont belive in hell or heaven, since i belive if god even exsisted, he wont send any of us to hell

if hell exsisted

every religious people say that.

I wanna hear words from my fellow atheists

warrenmats

Being a Christian, I'm not completely sure if all who commit suicide go to hell...  One example, a bi-polar pastor who at least appears to genuinely love God commits suicide after switching medication.  Also, I'm not under the theological conviction that one can loose his salvation.  Granted, if a person is genuinely saved then I think there is an extremely small chance for suicide.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]If there is a hell, then most people who have committed suicide probably belong there. The act itself is almost always selfish. One thing that bugs me is how atheists are more likely to commit suicide.Elraptor

how does have to do with suicide? you can be contributing to society and commit suicide right?

[QUOTE="Elraptor"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]If there is a hell, then most people who have committed suicide probably belong there. The act itself is almost always selfish. One thing that bugs me is how atheists are more likely to commit suicide.rising141

how does have to do with suicide? you can be contributing to society and commit suicide right?

You definitely can be a contributing member of society and a suicidee at the same time, yes. I think Elraptor's point though was that the people most likely to commit suicide are those who aren't contributing to society (the mentally ill, the physically infirm and disabled etc).

I don't believe in heaven or hell. I do not think people who commit suicide should then be seen as "sinners" who end up in hell. A lot of sucides happen when people are depressed. Depression is a terrible thing that can make sucidide seem like a logical option at the time. People who have never been depressed before cannot understand how bad it feels and why someone could consider suicide. I think for most people suicide is a bad choice because they do it for trivial reasons or from only suffering in the short term. However, if someone was clinically depressed and did it I think it is messed up to claim they are now going to suffer for eternity. Also, if someone thinks about it seriously for a long time and comes to the conclusion that they want to I think it is their right to make that decision.lazyhoboguy

Scott has a point about depression. My older Brother committed suicide several years ago. He was a brilliant artist who had sold paintings to some very influential people. He had just signed a contract to do a book cover for a writer you would all know if I said the name. He did a lot of volunteer stuff for at risk youth. He lived in San Diego and there was a lot of at risk youth. My sister in law said that they had one night he was talking about how futile it all was. He said even if they managed to keep a couple of kids out of gangs, out of a life of crime, helped them find jobs etc, there were 200 more they wouldn't be able to help. The next day when she woke up he was dead. He hanged himself. I do know for certain where my brother went though. He went into a wooden box. That box went into a hole in the ground. By now he has probably gone back into the food chain so to speak. That is where my brother went.

[QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]I don't believe in heaven or hell. I do not think people who commit suicide should then be seen as "sinners" who end up in hell. A lot of sucides happen when people are depressed. Depression is a terrible thing that can make sucidide seem like a logical option at the time. People who have never been depressed before cannot understand how bad it feels and why someone could consider suicide. I think for most people suicide is a bad choice because they do it for trivial reasons or from only suffering in the short term. However, if someone was clinically depressed and did it I think it is messed up to claim they are now going to suffer for eternity. Also, if someone thinks about it seriously for a long time and comes to the conclusion that they want to I think it is their right to make that decision.kellymae

Scott has a point about depression. My older Brother committed suicide several years ago. He was a brilliant artist who had sold paintings to some very influential people. He had just signed a contract to do a book cover for a writer you would all know if I said the name. He did a lot of volunteer stuff for at risk youth. He lived in San Diego and there was a lot of at risk youth. My sister in law said that they had one night he was talking about how futile it all was. He said even if they managed to keep a couple of kids out of gangs, out of a life of crime, helped them find jobs etc, there were 200 more they wouldn't be able to help. The next day when she woke up he was dead. He hanged himself. I do know for certain where my brother went though. He went into a wooden box. That box went into a hole in the ground. By now he has probably gone back into the food chain so to speak. That is where my brother went.

Damn Kelly, sorry to hear about your brother.  Having lived thru suicides by friends and extended family members I couldn't imagine my brother or sister doing it.

[QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]I don't believe in heaven or hell. I do not think people who commit suicide should then be seen as "sinners" who end up in hell. A lot of sucides happen when people are depressed. Depression is a terrible thing that can make sucidide seem like a logical option at the time. People who have never been depressed before cannot understand how bad it feels and why someone could consider suicide. I think for most people suicide is a bad choice because they do it for trivial reasons or from only suffering in the short term. However, if someone was clinically depressed and did it I think it is messed up to claim they are now going to suffer for eternity. Also, if someone thinks about it seriously for a long time and comes to the conclusion that they want to I think it is their right to make that decision.kellymae

Scott has a point about depression. My older Brother committed suicide several years ago. He was a brilliant artist who had sold paintings to some very influential people. He had just signed a contract to do a book cover for a writer you would all know if I said the name. He did a lot of volunteer stuff for at risk youth. He lived in San Diego and there was a lot of at risk youth. My sister in law said that they had one night he was talking about how futile it all was. He said even if they managed to keep a couple of kids out of gangs, out of a life of crime, helped them find jobs etc, there were 200 more they wouldn't be able to help. The next day when she woke up he was dead. He hanged himself. I do know for certain where my brother went though. He went into a wooden box. That box went into a hole in the ground. By now he has probably gone back into the food chain so to speak. That is where my brother went.

 
Sorry to hear about your brother KellyMae. He sounded like a very good person and to think someone like that will go to hell because they commited suicide is insulting to me. When I was at my catholic high school a girl killed herself. She was a former student of the school. When the school's yearbook came out it had her picture on the first page and said "may you rest in peace....wherever you may be". I thought that was very very messed up. They were basically saying rest in peace.... in hell!

[QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]I don't believe in heaven or hell. I do not think people who commit suicide should then be seen as "sinners" who end up in hell. A lot of sucides happen when people are depressed. Depression is a terrible thing that can make sucidide seem like a logical option at the time. People who have never been depressed before cannot understand how bad it feels and why someone could consider suicide. I think for most people suicide is a bad choice because they do it for trivial reasons or from only suffering in the short term. However, if someone was clinically depressed and did it I think it is messed up to claim they are now going to suffer for eternity. Also, if someone thinks about it seriously for a long time and comes to the conclusion that they want to I think it is their right to make that decision.kellymae

Scott has a point about depression. My older Brother committed suicide several years ago. He was a brilliant artist who had sold paintings to some very influential people. He had just signed a contract to do a book cover for a writer you would all know if I said the name. He did a lot of volunteer stuff for at risk youth. He lived in San Diego and there was a lot of at risk youth. My sister in law said that they had one night he was talking about how futile it all was. He said even if they managed to keep a couple of kids out of gangs, out of a life of crime, helped them find jobs etc, there were 200 more they wouldn't be able to help. The next day when she woke up he was dead. He hanged himself. I do know for certain where my brother went though. He went into a wooden box. That box went into a hole in the ground. By now he has probably gone back into the food chain so to speak. That is where my brother went.

When the school's yearbook came out it had her picture on the first page and said "may you rest in peace....wherever you may be". I thought that was very very messed up. They were basically saying rest in peace.... in hell!

lazyhoboguy

Not necessarily.

[QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]

When the school's yearbook came out it had her picture on the first page and said "may you rest in peace....wherever you may be". I thought that was very very messed up. They were basically saying rest in peace.... in hell!

Lansdowne5

Not necessarily.

*cough*

It is a safe conclusion that they at least doubted that she will go to heaven. Maybe not in a mean way but I still...

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]

When the school's yearbook came out it had her picture on the first page and said "may you rest in peace....wherever you may be". I thought that was very very messed up. They were basically saying rest in peace.... in hell!

Teenaged

Not necessarily.

*cough*

It is a safe conclusion that they at least doubted that she will go to heaven. Maybe not in a mean way but I still...

Straight to heaven, yes. But I would seriously doubt by that statement that they were inferring she would go to hell. They were probably suggesting that she would be resting in the temporary Paradise/Sheol until Judgement Day came, not that she would be eternally damned.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="lazyhoboguy"]

When the school's yearbook came out it had her picture on the first page and said "may you rest in peace....wherever you may be". I thought that was very very messed up. They were basically saying rest in peace.... in hell!

Lansdowne5

Not necessarily.

*cough*

It is a safe conclusion that they at least doubted that she will go to heaven. Maybe not in a mean way but I still...

Straight to heaven, yes. But I would seriously doubt by that statement that they were inferring she would go to hell. They were probably suggesting that she would be resting in the temporary Paradise/Sheol until Judgement Day came, not that she would be eternally damned.

Well I do not know which denomination of Christianity you follow but when I was learning about Catholicism I was commonly told that people who commited suicide go to hell. This school was a catholic shool where that message was taught. So by putting that in the yearbook they were saying that it was likely she was in hell. What other meaning could that have? I found that very disrespectful because they were not really honoring her but basically publically demeaning her. If the people who put that in the yearbook believed that she was in hell, they still should not have infered that on the yearbook's first page out of respect for her and her family.

Well I do not know which denomination of Christianity you follow but when I was learning about Catholicism I was commonly told that people who commited suicide go to hell. This school was a catholic shool where that message was taught. So by putting that in the yearbook they were saying that it was likely she was in hell. What other meaning could that have? I found that very disrespectful because they were not really honoring her but basically publically demeaning her. If the people who put that in the yearbook believed that she was in hell, they still should not have infered that on the yearbook's first page out of respect for her and her family.lazyhoboguy

i don't believe in hell, but I would like to share my views on suicide.

I think suicide is about the single most selfish act an average person can commit.

An old acquaintance of mine recently committed suicide, but as he was extremely bipolar, I don't group him with the "average" man.

Think about it, through suicide, you get what you want, but everyone you know suffers, and you don't have to experience their suffering.

It is an extremely shocking act to those around you, and most selfish, in my opinion.

Thinking about this topic saddens me.

i don't believe in hell, but I would like to share my views on suicide.

 

I think suicide is about the single most selfish act an average person can commit.

An old acquaintance of mine recently committed suicide, but as he was extremely bipolar, I don't group him with the "average" man.

 

Think about it, through suicide, you get what you want, but everyone you know suffers, and you don't have to experience their suffering.

It is an extremely shocking act to those around you, and most selfish, in my opinion.

Thinking about this topic saddens me.

itsTolkien_time

@^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then use assisted suicide, if you are terminally ill. Of course, you are right, it is not black and white. I was talking a little extreme.

I already gave an example to your advantage, about my acquaintance (more of a family friend, but...). I said I don't hold too much of it against him,  as he was very bipolar.

This in turn does not mean it was specifically a good or moral reason to commit suicide, however.

Overall, I have nothing real to say on the topic, as I don't believe in hell.

I don't believe in heaven or hell. But as has been said earlier, some people's lives on earth is there own hell, physicall or mentally ill and suicide at least with me is fine in such circumstances.Maqda7

True, but it is not physically hell...or is it...? :P

Maybe people who go to hell are reincarnated to live on earth until they die again, and are re-judged.

I'm not making a valid speculation, as I have nothing to back it up, but it is an idea to entertain.

Suicide still isn't fine with me, and it will remain that way, unless I commit it. I don't hate people for suicide, but it is just not right. you hurt the people who knew you.

[QUOTE="Maqda7"]I don't believe in heaven or hell. But as has been said earlier, some people's lives on earth is there own hell, physicall or mentally ill and suicide at least with me is fine in such circumstances.itsTolkien_time

True, but it is not physically hell...or is it...? :P

Maybe people who go to hell are reincarnated to live on earth until they die again, and are re-judged.

I'm not making a valid speculation, as I have nothing to back it up, but it is an idea to entertain.

Suicide still isn't fine with me, and it will remain that way, unless I commit it. I don't hate people for suicide, but it is just not right. you hurt the people who knew you.

I thought the afterlife isn't physical.

But I haven't thought of how selfish it is to commit suicide. I agree with you on that point.

I don't hate people for suicide, but it is just not right. you hurt the people who knew you.itsTolkien_time

[QUOTE="itsTolkien_time"]I don't hate people for suicide, but it is just not right. you hurt the people who knew you.ChiliDragon

I can't speak for all suicidal people, but in the darkest days of my depression from a few years back I honestly felt as though I did not deserve to be loved and that anyone who claimed to love me was deluded and would be happier if they stopped.  So... you can kind of guess how much the statement "but people love you" would have affected me had I ever seriously considered suicide.

Not to say that I disagree that it's a rather selfish act.  But from my personal experience, I have to conclude that claims that those who commit suicide are doing so knowing how selfish it is and the extent to which people love them are not necessarily true.  It is very, very difficult to understand the frame of mind of one who is truly suicidal if you yourself have never been in that situation.  Had I committed suicide, I honestly would have done so in the firm belief that I was doing everyone a favor.

But from my personal experience, I have to conclude that claims that those who commit suicide are doing so knowing how selfish it is and the extent to which people love them are not necessarily true. It is very, very difficult to understand the frame of mind of one who is truly suicidal if you yourself have never been in that situation. Had I committed suicide, I honestly would have done so in the firm belief that I was doing everyone a favor. GabuEx

I don't doubt that for a moment. My personal experience is limited to suicidal friends, which is why I added the comment about others not being high on the list of priorities. I semi-joke about it because I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with being on that side of the issue... when someone you deeply care for genuinely believes that's a lie you're feeding her just to make her feel better, and that the truth is that you want her to die, what are you supposed to do? I'll get back to you if I ever figure it out.ChiliDragon

I couldn't tell you; there are only two things I learned from being in that experience: it's rather complicated with no easy answers (much as many would like to imagine that some exist), and there's probably not much that you can actually do.  The thing that really put me on my road to recovery was my own personal realization regarding how much damage I had done and was still doing - and that, like other things, is unfortunately not something that can be conveyed; it can only be felt.