Mysterious President is not Absurd

The new European President, Herman van Rompuy, was a "...little-known Belgian politician. The federalist van Rompuy is a writer of haiku verse and a devout Roman Catholic who goes on regular retreats to a Benedictine monastery in northern Belgium. 

from here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6927033.ece

"All human beings must choose between the absurd and the mysterious and I have chosen the mysterious," he once said.

Is that valid comment?

(Sorry if I'm over-posting here!)

The existence of anything at all is basically still a complete mystery to this day, so it seems to me that either you accept that things exist, thereby accepting the mysterious, or reject that things exist, thereby accepting the absurd.

So yes. :P

Refer to sig.

'Mysterious' implies that there is a veiled rationality that drives everything in the universe, providing a coherent, meaningful system. Of course that is absurd.

My observations of life tells me that such a rationality doesn't exist; take the question:

"Why does anything exist at all?"

An atheistic response to this question is necessarily absurd, as it invokes the existence of an uncaused universe. A theistic response is absurder still, for we are just lead to another question: "Why does God exist?".

'Mystery' is just a word that describes the state in which one has not perceived the inherent absurdity of existence.

Does it have to be either absurd or mysterious? Can't it be neither or both?

I think I pretty much agree with MG_N's sentiments on the matter though. Life is absurd when you get down to it and the quicker you accept that the more you can enjoy it all.

Life is absurd when you get down to it and the quicker you accept that the more you can enjoy it all.

domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Life is absurd when you get down to it and the quicker you accept that the more you can enjoy it all.

Elraptor

No not in the hedonistic sense. You would enjoy an absurd world in the same way that you would enjoy watching Plan 9 From Outer Space. Some things are just so godawful that they can only but bring a smile to your face.

If you don't find life enjoyable then...... *shrugs*

Does it have to be either absurd or mysterious? Can't it be neither or both?

I think I pretty much agree with MG_N's sentiments on the matter though. Life is absurd when you get down to it and the quicker you accept that the more you can enjoy it all.

domatron23

I do agree with your conclusion, but am dis-satisfied with it at the same time. I think some knowledge is absurd and a lack of knowledge is mysterious. Absurdism is patently ridiculous and quite unfulfilling as a personal philosophy (unless I'm doing it wrong). But I'll agree that to add mystery just piles on the absurdity, as MGN says.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Does it have to be either absurd or mysterious? Can't it be neither or both?

I think I pretty much agree with MG_N's sentiments on the matter though. Life is absurd when you get down to it and the quicker you accept that the more you can enjoy it all.

RationalAtheist

I do agree with your conclusion, but am dis-satisfied with it at the same time. I think some knowledge is absurd and a lack of knowledge is mysterious. Absurdism is patently ridiculous and quite unfulfilling as a personal philosophy (unless I'm doing it wrong). But I'll agree that to add mystery just piles on the absurdity, as MGN says.

Oh, is there an actual philosophy known as absurdism? Lemme consult wikipedia.

Absurdism is a philosophy stating that the efforts of humanity to find meaning in the universe ultimately fail (and hence are absurd), because no such meaning exists, at least in relation to the individual. "The Absurd", therefore, is commonly used in absurdist philosophical discourse to refer to the incongruity between the human search for meaning and the universe's lack of meaning. The word "absurd" in this context does not mean "logically impossible," but rather "humanly impossible."Wikipedia

Well that pretty much matches what I already believed so I suppose I'm an absurdist. It does sound a bit unfulfilling to believe that your personal search for meaning is futile but for some reason I'm a very fulfilled person despite that. I guess that first of all I much prefer to know the universe as it actually is even if it is absurd and second of all that I find a great deal of humour in absurdity.

For example in my cognitive science ****last year the lecturer was going over some examples of how behaviour that is inflexibly hardwired into the brain can yeild false positives and lead to a decrease in overall fitness. He gave the example of the cuckoo and how they will lay their eggs in the nest of a bird from a whole different species. The host bird can't distinguish between its own eggs and the parasite cuckoo egg and so it raises and feeds the cuckoo chick as one of its own even if it is smaller as in this picture.

Now something like that is patently absurd but by golly it cracks me up. The human case of such sphexishness is equally as funny in my eyes.

Perhaps though it takes someone with the right kind of disposition to be fulfilled with an absurdist philosophy. Say for example you were in a tight-walled tunnel and a train was bearing down on you. Death is imminent so you could either believe that there isn't and train at all and succumb to the mysterious in order to cope, or you could accept that there is a train and in the fce of such absurdity yell and scream and soil yourself before being killed. Or you could do what I would do and take out a deck-chair and chill out a bit before you're annihilated (either that or try to do a front flip just before you get hit).

[QUOTE="Wikipedia"]

Absurdism is a philosophy stating that the efforts of humanity to find meaning in the universe ultimately fail (and hence are absurd), because no such meaning exists, at least in relation to the individual. "The Absurd", therefore, is commonly used in absurdist philosophical discourse to refer to the incongruity between the human search for meaning and the universe's lack of meaning. The word "absurd" in this context does not mean "logically impossible," but rather "humanly impossible."domatron23

Well that pretty much matches what I already believed so I suppose I'm an absurdist. It does sound a bit unfulfilling to believe that your personal search for meaning is futile but for some reason I'm a very fulfilled person despite that. I guess that first of all I much prefer to know the universe as it actually is even if it is absurd and second of all that I find a great deal of humour in absurdity.

For example in my cognitive science ****last year the lecturer was going over some examples of how behaviour that is inflexibly hardwired into the brain can yeild false positives and lead to a decrease in overall fitness. He gave the example of the cuckoo and how they will lay their eggs in the nest of a bird from a whole different species. The host bird can't distinguish between its own eggs and the parasite cuckoo egg and so it raises and feeds the cuckoo chick as one of its own even if it is smaller as in this picture.

Now something like that is patently absurd but by golly it cracks me up. The human case of such sphexishness is equally as funny in my eyes.

Aren't those "false positive" cognitive processes the same ones that can lead people to fixate, ideate, gamble, evalengelise, or be obsessive?

I think humour is key here. It seems like most peoples' fundamental objective from life is to be happy somehow, so humour counts for a great deal. I think absurdism fits well into my own post-modern view. I think the thing I dislike about it most is the ultimate acceptance of the unknown, which seems counter-intuitive to me.

 

Perhaps though it takes someone with the right kind of disposition to be fulfilled with an absurdist philosophy. Say for example you were in a tight-walled tunnel and a train was bearing down on you. Death is imminent so you could either believe that there isn't and train at all and succumb to the mysterious in order to cope, or you could accept that there is a train and in the face of such absurdity yell and scream and soil yourself before being killed. Or you could do what I would do and take out a deck-chair and chill out a bit before you're annihilated (either that or try to do a front flip just before you get hit).

domatron23

I guess I'd cack my pants, but it wouldn't really matter in the scheme of things. I'd have to accept it - I couldn't deny the facts of the sound, the wind, the shaking tracks, the blinding headlight... Then I might catch a glimpse of you in the gloom of the tunnel - my final absurd thought would be; "Where the heck did he get that deck-chair from?" 

The problem with Absurdism (that maybe you could solve) is that its practically rubbing shoulders with Nihilism.

What I'd like to know is why I must choose between the Mysterious and the Absurd? What exactly is he refering to as mysterious and what exactly is absurd? From what I can gleen from this is that you need to choose wether you think religion is either mysterious or absurd. Why would I think either of those things? I don't find religion to be mysterious or absurd. I find the fact that people can actually believe in religion to be both mysterious and absurd, but religion in itself is neither. Religion is the science of ancient times. Why does the sun rise and fall? It was god who did that. Where did we come from? God created us, or the Viking creation myth that is actually pretty strange. After a while religion became a means of attaining power. If you are a high ranking church official, you have power over your followers. There is always a governmental hierarchy within religion, and for good reason. So for this I see nothing either mysterious nor absurd about religion. It is just another means to an end. 

i choose to assume things don't exist until it is proven to a certain degree that they exist.

example: i assume a such a thing as an invisible AND pink unicorn does not exist until i am provided with some evidence that it does.

There is always a governmental hierarchy within religion, and for good reason. Mtngranek

not necessarily. there is no "head priest" of hinduism. there is no pontiff, leader, etc. there are very many small heirarchies yes, but as far as i know there is no central heirarchy of power

not necessarily. there is no "head priest" of hinduism. there is no pontiff, leader, etc. there are very many small heirarchies yes, but as far as i know there is no central heirarchy of power

chopperdave447