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iowastate

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#1 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

anyone here who is not familiar with Jhuger and his brilliant writing should be.

Jhuger's interview with God

http://www.jhuger.com/about-jhuger

the FAQ is very revealing - it is also an agnostic FAQ and a common sense FAQ

and also fun. I suggest giving all his other articles a read.

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foxhound_fox

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#2 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Still an atheist. But thank you.
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iowastate

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#3 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

it is possible to be an agnostic or an atheist and a Buddhist.

Buddhism requires that you believe in moderation and follow the Middle Path and none of the great teachers including Gautama Buddha himself ever claimed to be a God, any type of deity or even a prophet.

they are only teachers and never made claim to anything else.

you can be Buddhist and Shinto which is common in Japan but rare in other nations since Shinto shrines are uncommon outside of Japan.

Buddhist and Christian or Muslim is also almost unheard of since one of the primary tenets of Buddhism is to avoid extremism.

there are many good Christian and Muslim people who follow the right path but there teachings in all the holy books that can be construed as extremist.

No war in history is without a religious element is it?

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RationalAtheist

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#4 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

 

it is possible to be an agnostic or an atheist and a Buddhist.

Buddhism requires that you believe in moderation and follow the Middle Path and none of the great teachers including Gautama Buddha himself ever claimed to be a God, any type of deity or even a prophet.

they are only teachers and never made claim to anything else.

you can be Buddhist and Shinto which is common in Japan but rare in other nations since Shinto shrines are uncommon outside of Japan.

Buddhist and Christian or Muslim is also almost unheard of since one of the primary tenets of Buddhism is to avoid extremism.

there are many good Christian and Muslim people who follow the right path but there teachings in all the holy books that can be construed as extremist.

No war in history is without a religious element is it?

iowastate

It's also quite possible to be an agnostic atheist and not a Buddhist, in escaping the shackles of doctrine and etherealism. 

Buddhism can be viewed as an extremist philosophy or religion by some. The idea of extremism is in itself a subjective evaluation.

There have been many wars that have not had a religious element. Many wars are simply territory and power grabs. 

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#5 iowastate
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I don't see how Buddhism can ever be considered extremism when the primary teaching is to avoid extremism of any type and follow the "Middle Path" or middle way.

Those with extremist behavior who claim to be Buddhist are not true followers of Buddhism because they are disobeying the core tenets of that faith....I say faith an not religion because Buddhism is a way of life rather than a religion and does not try to force you believe that any of their teachers are really posing as an all knowing prophet or mystical son of god.

the problem with Christianity and Islam is they have yet to consider their extremists as being outside of their religion because you can be an extremist and still be following the teachings of the Bible or the Q'ran, both of which I have read.

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iowastate

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#6 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

I do agree that many of the religious wars and probably even the crusades had over population and need for land as the root cause but it is easier to use religion to explain them away since religious hatred has caused so many problems

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#7 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I was Buddhist for a time. It lead me nowhere and only left me feeling emptier than mere atheism. And Buddhism is a religion like any other, it has extremists who reinterpret the teachings to fit their agendas, and there are several sects that not only condone violence, but encourage it (at least figuratively, which can lead to literal violence). I know more than I need to know about Buddhism, much more than any casual-interest Westerner, and have seen it for what it really is... a religion, a violent, intolerant religion that isn't practised anything like it should be (according to the teachings). Burma is a leading example of Buddhism-turned-violent. And the history of Tibet is steeped in the blood of innocent people.
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RationalAtheist

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#8 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

I don't see how Buddhism can ever be considered extremism when the primary teaching is to avoid extremism of any type and follow the "Middle Path" or middle way.

Those with extremist behavior who claim to be Buddhist are not true followers of Buddhism because they are disobeying the core tenets of that faith....I say faith an not religion because Buddhism is a way of life rather than a religion and does not try to force you believe that any of their teachers are really posing as an all knowing prophet or mystical son of god.

the problem with Christianity and Islam is they have yet to consider their extremists as being outside of their religion because you can be an extremist and still be following the teachings of the Bible or the Q'ran, both of which I have read.

iowastate

So what is the middle path then, if not another subjective evaluation that sounds nice and woolly but has little objective meaning? How can you avoid extremism as perceived by others if it does not seem extreme to you? Doesn't, for example, the perpetual cycle of rebirth seem extreme to some people? How about concepts of liberation and of overcoming ignorance? Don't those seem extremely indulgent?

That hoary old chestnut of "if they don't believe what I believe then they don't belong in the religions we both claim to be in" is getting wheeled out again. That's what Shias say of Sunnis (and vice versa). That's what evangelicals say of relevance Christians and most Christians say of Mormons, who would also say same of Rastafarians, etc, etc, etc.

I'd say Buddhism is a religion rather than a way of life, since different Buddhists have different ways of life, but they submit to the same dogma and often advertise the "superiority" of their beliefs through devotional and ritualistic actions. There is a suspension of critial awareness of particular religious doctrine, where skepticism would be the more rational approach.

The problem I think is the same with Buddhism as in the other faiths you mentioned: It is in applying subjective evaluations (like extremism) to other religions while denying those same labels can be easily placed on your one, because you think you have found the "truth" of your faith.

 

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iowastate

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#9 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

I am once again being called a westerner playing at what he doesn't understand.

I expected better here -

it was in a Korean temple I was introduced and learned of Buddhism....more than 20 years ago.

I had been hoping for a discussion ......

religion is never worth arguing about.

you can consider this at an end

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RationalAtheist

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#10 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

I am once again being called a westerner playing at what he doesn't understand.

I expected better here -

it was in a Korean temple I was introduced and learned of Buddhism....more than 20 years ago.

I had been hoping for a discussion ......

religion is never worth arguing about.

you can consider this at an end

iowastate

Playing the victim card now? What expectations did you have of here? With your 20 years plus of authentic Buddhism in your toolkit, I'd have expected less of a victim mentality and more of a robust discussion. That's why I bothered replying to you.

Religion is worthy of questioning and discussion, but anything that is guided by faith must surely be difficult to defend from a rational perspective. That's my experience anyway and you haven't changed that.

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foxhound_fox

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#11 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
it was in a Korean temple I was introduced and learned of Buddhism....more than 20 years ago.iowastate
You seem to have got only the Spark Notes version. You come off as a Westerner who got into the religion because it was "neat" and "different". You only gloss the surface points. I'll let you in on a secret. You will never find enlightenment if you actively seek it. It is only when you give up looking, that it finds you. It's why I stopped being a Buddhist. That, and the religion's focus being so anti-life (i.e. the ideal person is a monk, not a householder).
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iowastate

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#12 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

my mom just went in the hospital and will in bed for at least a month.

haven't even been playing video games, I apologize for the rude way I left the discussion but I don't feel like arguing right now.

I'm taking a break from all activity here.

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#13 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

my mom just went in the hospital and will in bed for at least a month.

haven't even been playing video games, I apologize for the rude way I left the discussion but I don't feel like arguing right now.

and I have been buddhist for over 30 years.

I'm taking a break from all activity here.

iowastate

There is nothing to apologise for. I hope your mother has a speedy recovery and that things return to normal for you as soon as possible.

 

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#14 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

thank you - it will be couple weeks.

just helped my sister pick up a few things to take up to her room and help her feel more comfortable.

i'm alright when I stay, by now I know how to work the system but it is harder when it is someone else - you feel helpless.