If A Truck Was About To Hit Your Friend, Would You Tell Him?

  • 92 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#1 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

You see, the point I'm trying to get across is that an Evangelist knows the path to eternal life, he sees someone who doesn't. "If A Truck Was About To Hit Your Friend, Would You Tell Him?"

You see Hell in somebody's future, would you not do something to lead him away from that?

If you believe there is a Heaven and a Hell, and this specific person your speaking with is Hell-bound, and don't mention that to somebody, due to them not "liking it", "appreciating it", or getting angry at you, then don't you think that would be wrong?

 I mean, in refference to my sig - how much do you have to hate somebody to not tell them about the path to Heaven?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHS8adO3hM

God bless.

Avatar image for GabuEx
GabuEx

36552

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 27

User Lists: 0

#2 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

The only reason why someone would be swayed by the argument that they're going to hell is if they were already convinced that there was a hell and that they were going there, in which case no convincing was needed. Thus, it's an entirely circular argument. No offense, but the statement that someone is going to hell is one of the worst arguments in existence for why someone ought to believe in God.

Avatar image for Sitri_
Sitri_

731

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 Sitri_
Member since 2008 • 731 Posts

It is somewhat valid to want to help someone, but imagine this scenario.

Friend   1:  Dude there is a truck coming get the hell out of the way!

Friend   2: Really man there is no truck.

Friend   1:  No I am serious I can see it!

Friend   2:  What are you on?  I am right here and I don't see a truck.

Friend   1: I promise you!  Please believe me I want to help you!

Friend   2.  Fine man I'll move if it makes you happy.

Friend   1:  Ok great now the truck is going to chase you down if you don't always walk 5 foot from the sidewalk and think good things about the truck.

Friend   2:  Get the **** out of here.

Friend   1:  No dude I am serious, a truck is coming.  I know. Watch me I always walk five feet from the sidewalk.

Friend   2.  No you don't I see you walking in the street or sidewalk all the time. 

Friend   1.  You don't really understand the correct interpretations and meanings of "sidewalk," "road," and "walking" in the context that it is meant for those specific instances. 

Friend   2:  This is just dumb.

Friend   1:  You have to believe me, there is a truck!  Look at this study about people hit by a truck.

Friend   2:  .............This study was done with playdough and toothpicks and is written in crayola.

Friend   1:  Ok look at this study.

Friend   2:  This is a dinner napkin.

Friend   1:  Please believe me!

Avatar image for AlternatingCaps
AlternatingCaps

1714

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#4 AlternatingCaps
Member since 2007 • 1714 Posts

How about if you let us know about it, and then if we still decide we're not into the your religion, you let us go. You tried, but we decided to go about our foolish ways. The error is ours, not yours.

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#5 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

Of course I would but reality=/=metaphysical musings about the afterlife. You can't attach the certainty to hell like you can with a truck.

Don't tell me you wouldn't be annoyed if mormons kept sincerely warning you about the terrestrial kingdom.

Oh and how do you know the path to eternal life? I know you believe in salvation through Christ but how do you know it?

Avatar image for Funky_Llama
Funky_Llama

18428

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#6 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts
Depends if the truck is existant or not. >_>
Avatar image for Teenaged
Teenaged

31764

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#7 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

I like Sitri's scenario. :P

If we are talking about a literal truck then I would try to save him whether he was destined to go to hell, or heaven. Not to mention though that the whole argument is because the TC believes that we are born evil, and thus our default eternal destination is hell; something extremely pessimistic, unsubstanciated and absurd.

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#8 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

Not to mention though that the whole argument is because the TC believes that we are born evil, and thus our default eternal destination is hell; something extremely pessimistic, unsubstanciated and absurd.

Teenaged

Let's wait and see, shall we? :) 

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#9 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

I know you believe in salvation through Christ but how do you know it?

domatron23

I know what it is, I know how it has happened, and how I now have it through him.

How about if you let us know about it, and then if we still decide we're not into the your religion, you let us go. You tried, but we decided to go about our foolish ways. The error is ours, not yours.

AlternatingCaps

In this case, there is not much more I can do. I can't get tied in a knot over the salvation of somebody. if somebody rejected it, that is their heart. We tried, I let you go. But that doesn't mean I'll stop evangelizing period.

The statement that someone is going to hell is one of the worst arguments ... for why someone ought to believe in God.

GabuEx

Okay, so what am I supposed to do? Lie and tell them there is no Hell?

Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#10 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts

You're exactly right.

In fact, I'd say it would be very immoral for somebody to not convince a friend to repent if they believed in the things that you stated above.

Avatar image for Teenaged
Teenaged

31764

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#11 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Not to mention though that the whole argument is because the TC believes that we are born evil, and thus our default eternal destination is hell; something extremely pessimistic, unsubstanciated and absurd.

Lansdowne5

Let's wait and see, shall we? :)

Of course we will. :)

Besides it's obvious that according to what I just said, the limitations in the scenario which are based upon the belief of TC are actually forcing the one to answer something in accordance to that belief. That belief in itself though is not shared by the majority of the posters here and its hard to have yourself think in such an absurd way, in order to answer, and that's why I pointed that out. ;)

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#12 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

You're exactly right.

In fact, I'd say it would be very immoral for somebody to not convince a friend to repent if they believed in the things that you stated above.

MetalGear_Ninty

This is exactly the point I am looking to show. Thank you.

Avatar image for GabuEx
GabuEx

36552

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 27

User Lists: 0

#13 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The statement that someone is going to hell is one of the worst arguments ... for why someone ought to believe in God.

ShowStopper102

Okay, so what am I supposed to do? Lie and tell them there is no Hell?

Convince them logically that God exists and that he sends people to hell for the reasons you're giving. The "you're going to hell so believe in God" argument is basically like this:

1. Assume that there is a God and that he sends people to hell for doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z.

2. You are doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z.

3. Therefore, God exists and he will send you to hell.

In order for this argument to have any effect whatsoever, the person must already be convinced of the premise that God exists and that he sends people to hell for doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z. But that is exactly what the argument is trying to show! This makes it a completely circular argument and totally useless for anyone who didn't already agree with the conclusion.

Avatar image for Teenaged
Teenaged

31764

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#14 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The statement that someone is going to hell is one of the worst arguments ... for why someone ought to believe in God.

GabuEx

Okay, so what am I supposed to do? Lie and tell them there is no Hell?

Convince them logically that God exists and that he sends people to hell for the reasons you're giving. The "you're going to hell so believe in God" argument is basically like this:

1. Assume that there is a God and that he sends people to hell for doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z.

2. You are doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z.

3. Therefore, God exists and he will send you to hell.

In order for this argument to have any effect whatsoever, the person must already be convinced of the premise that God exists and that he sends people to hell for doing (or not doing) X, Y, and Z. But that is exactly what the argument is trying to show! This makes it a completely circular argument and totally useless for anyone who didn't already agree with the conclusion.

Exactly.
Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#15 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

Convince them logically that God exists

GabuEx

The evidence has been given to you.

It is not my job to make you believe. It is yours. If you choose not to, there is not a whole lot I can do about it. In other words, leave it alone.

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#16 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts
See, what I want is for you to invision as the believer. They love you, they do not want you to go to hell. Regardless of whether you even believe there is such thing! Regardless of whether you think that it's the stupidest, craziest, most idiotic thing that they have ever heard of! They know it's true, and they don't want you going there; they want you in the Kingdom of God.
Avatar image for Teenaged
Teenaged

31764

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#17 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

See, what I want is for you to invision as the believer. They love you, they do not want you to go to hell. Regardless of whether you even believe there is such thing! Regardless of whether you think that it's the stupidest, craziest, most idiotic thing that they have ever heard of! They know it's true, and they don't want you going there; they want you in the Kingdom of God.ShowStopper102
But this is beyond of generally believing if hell exists. It also has to do with the idea that humans are born evil, and hell is the default eternal destination for them.

Avatar image for natetodamax
natetodamax

396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 natetodamax
Member since 2008 • 396 Posts
I didn't read much of the previous posts, but I honestly don't understand this topic. Why wouldn't you warn your friend?
Avatar image for Sitri_
Sitri_

731

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 Sitri_
Member since 2008 • 731 Posts

It is true that it could be completely altruistic that a person wants to save someone from hell (altruism also releasing chemical rewards in the brain which vary by person.)  But it is also possible that there are other psychological rewards to converting someone. 

First of all, being part of this religious experience is rewarding to an individual in believing they are are part of something bigger than themselves, this is true of someone who gets wrapped up in any cause.  But with this cause, an otherwise normal and relatively unnoteworthy person can be a vessel for the greatest of great, the most holy of holy.  In a way this individual gets to become god.  His/her spirit and will is one with this unimaginably great thing.  So when you convert someone (yes I know the linguistic gymnastics which are employed to sometimes avoid this phrase) you are rewarded with your feelings of personal greatness.  Even if you want to claim it only vicarious through your chosen medium, you still accept you are complicate in the greatness.  "Saving" someone is a testament to the greatness of the will and power you believe you employ.  Who doesn't like to think they are great and doing great things?

Also, people need other people to believe what they believe.  Standing alone, any religious idea is completely ridiculous.  You need other people to make supernatural claims reasonable.  Can you imagine trying to say that "6000 years ago a snake convinced a woman to eat an apple so everyone is going to be punished forever" if no one had ever heard that story.  Depending how far someone was wanting to push this story they would end up in an asylum.  Spreading your belief is a way of keeping your life's coping mechanism more believable to yourself, and in many cases of your bigotry more tolerated also.  

 

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#20 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts
To be clear, say you guys accepted Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior, I would give all glory to God. That's not my work; it's His!
Avatar image for Funky_Llama
Funky_Llama

18428

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#21 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts
To be clear, say you guys accepted Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior, I would give all glory to God. That's not my work; it's His!ShowStopper102
Given that humans are supposed to have free will, God should have nothing to do with this choice.
Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#22 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
[QUOTE="domatron23"]

I know you believe in salvation through Christ but how do you know it?

ShowStopper102

I know what it is, I know how it has happened, and how I now have it through him.

I know that you believe that you know, what I asked was how do you know. If my friend was about to be hit by a truck  I would point towards it so that he could see the danger for himself. I'm asking for you to do the same for me with the danger of hell.

Avatar image for Sitri_
Sitri_

731

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23 Sitri_
Member since 2008 • 731 Posts

To be clear, say you guys accepted Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior, I would give all glory to God. That's not my work; it's His!ShowStopper102

And you wouldn't at all feel good about being vessel for his work?  

Avatar image for SSBFan12
SSBFan12

11981

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 SSBFan12
Member since 2008 • 11981 Posts
I don't have any friends and I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. So I really wouldn't care if I told him or not mostly likely no I wouldn't tell my friend if they were or not. But how does someone see someones future?
Avatar image for GabuEx
GabuEx

36552

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 27

User Lists: 0

#25 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

The evidence has been given to you.

ShowStopper102

No, it hasn't. Saying that I'm going to hell unless I accept Jesus Christ as my savior is not evidence of any kind. It is a simple assertion, one that ought to be supported by evidence. And if you say that the evidence is in the Bible, then that would require me to believe that your interpretation of the Bible was 100% true, thus begging the question once again.

Avatar image for SSBFan12
SSBFan12

11981

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 SSBFan12
Member since 2008 • 11981 Posts

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

The evidence has been given to you.

GabuEx

No, it hasn't. Saying that I'm going to hell unless I accept Jesus Christ as my savior is not evidence of any kind. It is a simple assertion, one that ought to be supported by evidence. And if you say that the evidence is in the Bible, then that would require me to believe that your interpretation of the Bible was 100% true, thus begging the question once again.

Wouldn't that lead you to believing in Jesus Christ and turning in a catholic or Christian.
Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#27 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

The evidence has been given to you.

GabuEx

No, it hasn't. Saying that I'm going to hell unless I accept Jesus Christ as my savior is not evidence of any kind. It is a simple assertion, one that ought to be supported by evidence. And if you say that the evidence is in the Bible, then that would require me to believe that your interpretation of the Bible was 100% true, thus begging the question once again.

This will be circular for as long as you wish. I'm not in a position to argue with you.

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#28 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]To be clear, say you guys accepted Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior, I would give all glory to God. That's not my work; it's His!Sitri_

And you wouldn't at all feel good about being vessel for his work?  

Oh, it'd be great, to know that I assisted! To know that I planted the seed, and did my part. ;)

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#29 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts
[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

I know you believe in salvation through Christ but how do you know it?

domatron23

I know what it is, I know how it has happened, and how I now have it through him.

I know that you believe that you know, what I asked was how do you know. If my friend was about to be hit by a truck  I would point towards it so that he could see the danger for himself. I'm asking for you to do the same for me with the danger of hell.

I would point you to the Bible. Although, some would not accept that. The Bible states the Way to Heaven. This is how I know. I believe that the Bible is truth - His Word is Life - His Word is Real.

Avatar image for Teenaged
Teenaged

31764

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#30 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

The evidence has been given to you.

ShowStopper102

No, it hasn't. Saying that I'm going to hell unless I accept Jesus Christ as my savior is not evidence of any kind. It is a simple assertion, one that ought to be supported by evidence. And if you say that the evidence is in the Bible, then that would require me to believe that your interpretation of the Bible was 100% true, thus begging the question once again.

This will be circular for as long as you wish. I'm not in a position to argue with you.

Neither is anyone in position to accept circular reasoning.
Avatar image for GabuEx
GabuEx

36552

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 27

User Lists: 0

#31 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

This will be circular for as long as you wish. I'm not in a position to argue with you.ShowStopper102

The fact that it's circular has nothing to do with me, and has everything to do with, well, basic logic. No offense, but this seems like a common theme among evangelical Christians - to put forth a minimal effort and then to say that you've done your part and the rest is out of your hands. It seems to me that - no offense - if you really cared about saving people, you would do more than just tell them they're sinners, give them a few Bible verses, and then call it a day.

No one "chooses" not to believe; they fail to believe if they have not been given sufficient evidence to convince them to believe. The whole idea that people are just "rejecting" what you're telling them just seems like - again, no offense - a cop-out, an excuse to try to get out of one's duties if it seems too hard.

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#32 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

Fine. What? What do you want me to give you? What will convince you to walk with the Savior? Give it to me straight, I will do my best.

Screw the circle, what do you want?

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#33 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="ShowStopper102"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

I know you believe in salvation through Christ but how do you know it?

ShowStopper102

I know what it is, I know how it has happened, and how I now have it through him.

I know that you believe that you know, what I asked was how do you know. If my friend was about to be hit by a truck  I would point towards it so that he could see the danger for himself. I'm asking for you to do the same for me with the danger of hell.

I would point you to the Bible. Although, some would not accept that. The Bible states the Way to Heaven. This is how I know. I believe that the Bible is truth - His Word is Life - His Word is Real.

And a Muslim would point me to a Quran, a Mormon to the Mormon Bible and a pagan to the Theogony, all of whom would sincerely believe that they were providing me with the truth. A truck is an object that is objectively viewed the same way between any person from any culture in the world. I have good reason to believe in its existence and danger and good reason to heed warnings about it.

Why ought I place the same confidence in your warning when the person next to you warns of something different and the person next to him warns of something different still and the person next to him declares that there is no need for warning at all. Why ought I put confidence in a danger that I cannot even percieve for myself?

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#34 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

Fine. What? What do you want me to give you? What will convince you to walk with the Savior? Give it to me straight, I will do my best.

Screw the circle, what do you want?

ShowStopper102

Convince them logically that God exists and that he sends people to hell for the reasons you're giving.

GabuEx

Perhaps it would be nice if you shared why you believe in God and why you believe in the dangers of hell.

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#35 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts

Like I said, "I will do my best."

Okay, I met a couple, they were Pastors. They shared with me Jesus, we and a few others watched a movie, called Left Behind. I wasn't all that sure what it was about, but I enjoyed it. After the movie, she talked and we prayed. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and when I look back on that, it wasn't all me. God inspired me to say yes; to accept him to change who I was at the time. So I did. My life literally changed, I actually felt different. It's funny, I boldly remember, we were about to eat pizza, and I was staring into a mirror after the prayer; after I acepted Christ. I felt different. I knew something was inside me, I knew there was a change in me. I just wasn't sure what had happened... I see myself thinking, "Is this God?"

Why do I believe in the dangers of hell? Because I believe the Bible is truth, it's that simple. 

Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#36 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
I have a friend that still reminds me of the "truck" you speak of from time to time.  I just remind him the concept of a hell is a complete joke to me.  He needs to focus on the Christ parts if he wants me to even listen, I will never believe in hell.
Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#37 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

Like I said, "I will do my best."

Okay, I met a couple, they were Pastors. They shared with me Jesus, we and a few others watched a movie, called Left Behind. I wasn't all that sure what it was about, but I enjoyed it. After the movie, she talked and we prayed. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and when I look back on that, it wasn't all me. God inspired me to say yes; to accept him to change who I was at the time. So I did. My life literally changed, I actually felt different. It's funny, I boldly remember, we were about to eat pizza, and I was staring into a mirror after the prayer; after I acepted Christ. I felt different. I knew something was inside me, I knew there was a change in me. I just wasn't sure what had happened... I see myself thinking, "Is this God?"

Why do I believe in the dangers of hell? Because I believe the Bible is truth, it's that simple. 

ShowStopper102

Thanks for sharing your story. Personal experience is good when it comes to convincing individuals about matters of spirituality but unfortunately it is impotent when it comes to sharing your conviction.

How would someone like me be able to experience God directly like you claim to have?

Avatar image for mindstorm
mindstorm

15255

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]This will be circular for as long as you wish. I'm not in a position to argue with you.GabuEx

The fact that it's circular has nothing to do with me, and has everything to do with, well, basic logic. No offense, but this seems like a common theme among evangelical Christians - to put forth a minimal effort and then to say that you've done your part and the rest is out of your hands. It seems to me that - no offense - if you really cared about saving people, you would do more than just tell them they're sinners, give them a few Bible verses, and then call it a day.

No one "chooses" not to believe; they fail to believe if they have not been given sufficient evidence to convince them to believe. The whole idea that people are just "rejecting" what you're telling them just seems like - again, no offense - a cop-out, an excuse to try to get out of one's duties if it seems too hard.

As an evangelical Christian I do not disagree with you whatsoever.  I understand both aspects of the argument and have been on both sides.  I take the middle approach.  I do whatever possible on my part while knowing only God can change the heart.

Indeed I argue in favor of Christianity all the time, but I've never seen anyone "argued into the kingdom."   The only way I've seen people brought to Christ (outside the church setting) is through service and love - acting like a Christian.

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#39 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

 I will never believe in hell.btaylor2404

Never? Are you that sure of your belief, that you can say with absolute certainty, that no matter what happens in the future you will "NEVER" believe in hell? 

Avatar image for ShowStopper102
ShowStopper102

12382

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#40 ShowStopper102
Member since 2007 • 12382 Posts
[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

Like I said, "I will do my best."

Okay, I met a couple, they were Pastors. They shared with me Jesus, we and a few others watched a movie, called Left Behind. I wasn't all that sure what it was about, but I enjoyed it. After the movie, she talked and we prayed. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and when I look back on that, it wasn't all me. God inspired me to say yes; to accept him to change who I was at the time. So I did. My life literally changed, I actually felt different. It's funny, I boldly remember, we were about to eat pizza, and I was staring into a mirror after the prayer; after I acepted Christ. I felt different. I knew something was inside me, I knew there was a change in me. I just wasn't sure what had happened... I see myself thinking, "Is this God?"

Why do I believe in the dangers of hell? Because I believe the Bible is truth, it's that simple. 

domatron23

Thanks for sharing your story. Personal experience is good when it comes to convincing individuals about matters of spirituality but unfortunately it is impotent when it comes to sharing your conviction.

How would someone like me be able to experience God directly like you claim to have?

Pray in your heart, it'll come. You don't have to pray the prayer of accepting Christ if you're not ready, but pray, and try believing it.  You'll feel something. 

And then that can grow into something more

Avatar image for 7guns
7guns

1449

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#41 7guns
Member since 2006 • 1449 Posts
[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

Like I said, "I will do my best."

Okay, I met a couple, they were Pastors. They shared with me Jesus, we and a few others watched a movie, called Left Behind. I wasn't all that sure what it was about, but I enjoyed it. After the movie, she talked and we prayed. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and when I look back on that, it wasn't all me. God inspired me to say yes; to accept him to change who I was at the time. So I did. My life literally changed, I actually felt different. It's funny, I boldly remember, we were about to eat pizza, and I was staring into a mirror after the prayer; after I acepted Christ. I felt different. I knew something was inside me, I knew there was a change in me. I just wasn't sure what had happened... I see myself thinking, "Is this God?"

Why do I believe in the dangers of hell? Because I believe the Bible is truth, it's that simple. 

ShowStopper102

Thanks for sharing your story. Personal experience is good when it comes to convincing individuals about matters of spirituality but unfortunately it is impotent when it comes to sharing your conviction.

How would someone like me be able to experience God directly like you claim to have?

Pray in your heart, it'll come. You don't have to pray the prayer of accepting Christ if you're not ready, but pray, and try believing it.  You'll feel something. 

And then that can grow into something more

Sounds like self-hypnosis. Make sense right? How else would you be able to decide what to believe?

Avatar image for Sitri_
Sitri_

731

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42 Sitri_
Member since 2008 • 731 Posts
[QUOTE="Sitri_"]

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]To be clear, say you guys accepted Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior, I would give all glory to God. That's not my work; it's His!ShowStopper102

And you wouldn't at all feel good about being vessel for his work?  

Oh, it'd be great, to know that I assisted! To know that I planted the seed, and did my part. ;)

Like I said.

It is true that it could be completely altruistic that a person wants to save someone from hell (altruism also releasing chemical rewards in the brain which vary by person.)  But it is also possible that there are other psychological rewards to converting someone. 

First of all, being part of this religious experience is rewarding to an individual in believing they are are part of something bigger than themselves, this is true of someone who gets wrapped up in any cause.  But with this cause, an otherwise normal and relatively unnoteworthy person can be a vessel for the greatest of great, the most holy of holy.  In a way this individual gets to become god.  His/her spirit and will is one with this unimaginably great thing.  So when you convert someone (yes I know the linguistic gymnastics which are employed to sometimes avoid this phrase) you are rewarded with your feelings of personal greatness.  Even if you want to claim it only vicarious through your chosen medium, you still accept you are complicate in the greatness.  "Saving" someone is a testament to the greatness of the will and power you believe you employ.  Who doesn't like to think they are great and doing great things?

Also, people need other people to believe what they believe.  Standing alone, any religious idea is completely ridiculous.  You need other people to make supernatural claims reasonable.  Can you imagine trying to say that "6000 years ago a snake convinced a woman to eat an apple so everyone is going to be punished forever" if no one had ever heard that story.  Depending how far someone was wanting to push this story they would end up in an asylum.  Spreading your belief is a way of keeping your life's coping mechanism more believable to yourself, and in many cases of your bigotry more tolerated also.  

 

Sitri_

 

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#43 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

Pray in your heart, it'll come. You don't have to pray the prayer of accepting Christ if you're not ready, but pray, and try believing it.  You'll feel something. 

ShowStopper102

Amen. :) 

Avatar image for Sitri_
Sitri_

731

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#44 Sitri_
Member since 2008 • 731 Posts
[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]

Pray in your heart, it'll come. You don't have to pray the prayer of accepting Christ if you're not ready, but pray, and try believing it.  You'll feel something. 

Lansdowne5

Amen. :) 

In other words, just keep telling yourself it is true and one day you might believe it.

reminds me of

Gunfire in the street
Where we used to meet
Echoes out a beat and the bass goes
Bomb right over my head
Step over the dead
Remember what you said you know, a part about
Life is just a waking dream
Well I know what you mean
But that ain't how it seems right here and now
How can this be real?
I can barely feel
Anymore

I am trying to see
I am trying to believe
This is not where I should be
I am trying to believe

Blood hardened in the sand
Cold metal in my hand
Help you understand
The way that things are gonna be
There's nowhere left to hide
'Cause God is on our side
I keep telling myself

I am trying to see
I am trying to believe
This is not where I should be
I am trying to believe.

Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#45 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"] I will never believe in hell.Lansdowne5

Never? Are you that sure of your belief, that you can say with absolute certainty, that no matter what happens in the future you will "NEVER" believe in hell? 

Yes.  Certain things in life we can be sure of.  Beliefs we hold that are central to who we are, that are unwavering.  I believe that all men and women, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or religion are equal.  I believe that we must all work to ensure that everyone is treated the same and with the same respect or we are as guilty as those who hold hateful beliefs and we must stand up when we see hatred spewed for whatever reason.  So those beliefs are a part of me, they won't change, the same with my belief that there is no hell.

@Sitri_, I was thinking of the very same song.  I listened to it each morning my brother was in Iraq, knowing how I felt about the war, how he felt, but that he was there all the same. 

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#46 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

Yes.  Certain things in life we can be sure of.  Beliefs we hold that are central to who we are, that are unwavering.  I believe that all men and women, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or religion are equal.  I believe that we must all work to ensure that everyone is treated the same and with the same respect or we are as guilty as those who hold hateful beliefs and we must stand up when we see hatred spewed for whatever reason.  So those beliefs are a part of me, they won't change, the same with my belief that there is no hell.

btaylor2404

So even if Jesus came to Earth tomorrow....and confirmed that hell 'was' a real place, you still wouldn't believe it? :)

Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#47 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]

Yes.  Certain things in life we can be sure of.  Beliefs we hold that are central to who we are, that are unwavering.  I believe that all men and women, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or religion are equal.  I believe that we must all work to ensure that everyone is treated the same and with the same respect or we are as guilty as those who hold hateful beliefs and we must stand up when we see hatred spewed for whatever reason.  So those beliefs are a part of me, they won't change, the same with my belief that there is no hell.

Lansdowne5

So even if Jesus came to Earth tomorrow....and confirmed that hell 'was' a real place, you still wouldn't believe it? :)

Of course the sudden appearance of God/Jesus Christ would change everyone's mind, what if he appeared and said the opposite?  That there is no hell, or that there is no heaven and we should stop all the BS and do the best we can in the one life we have here. 

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#48 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts

In other words, just keep telling yourself it is true and one day you might believe it.

Sitri_

Nope. Let the Holy Spirit into your life and let Him 'open' your eyes to the Truth. :) 

Avatar image for Lansdowne5
Lansdowne5

6015

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#49 Lansdowne5
Member since 2008 • 6015 Posts
[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="btaylor2404"]

Yes.  Certain things in life we can be sure of.  Beliefs we hold that are central to who we are, that are unwavering.  I believe that all men and women, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or religion are equal.  I believe that we must all work to ensure that everyone is treated the same and with the same respect or we are as guilty as those who hold hateful beliefs and we must stand up when we see hatred spewed for whatever reason.  So those beliefs are a part of me, they won't change, the same with my belief that there is no hell.

btaylor2404

So even if Jesus came to Earth tomorrow....and confirmed that hell 'was' a real place, you still wouldn't believe it? :)

Of course the sudden appearance of God/Jesus Christ would change everyone's mind, what if he appeared and said the opposite?  That there is no hell, or that there is no heaven and we should stop all the BS and do the best we can in the one life we have here. 

He wouldn't. Because if he 'did' appear, that would prove the Bible truly is His Word. And he can't contradict himself. Jesus IS the Word of God, and the Word of God is Jesus. If he said something that was against what the Bible says, it would mean that he wasn't really Jesus at all.

Anyway, you answered my question. :) 

 

Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#50 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
[QUOTE="btaylor2404"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="btaylor2404"]

Yes.  Certain things in life we can be sure of.  Beliefs we hold that are central to who we are, that are unwavering.  I believe that all men and women, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or religion are equal.  I believe that we must all work to ensure that everyone is treated the same and with the same respect or we are as guilty as those who hold hateful beliefs and we must stand up when we see hatred spewed for whatever reason.  So those beliefs are a part of me, they won't change, the same with my belief that there is no hell.

Lansdowne5

So even if Jesus came to Earth tomorrow....and confirmed that hell 'was' a real place, you still wouldn't believe it? :)

Of course the sudden appearance of God/Jesus Christ would change everyone's mind, what if he appeared and said the opposite?  That there is no hell, or that there is no heaven and we should stop all the BS and do the best we can in the one life we have here. 

He wouldn't. Because if he 'did' appear, that would prove the Bible truly is His Word. And he can't contradict himself. Jesus IS the Word of God, and the Word of God is Jesus. If he said something that was against what the Bible says, it would mean that he wasn't really Jesus at all.

Anyway, you answered my question. :) 

 

 

We see here where you and I differ in thought.  You put the Bible above all, even if Christ returned and said something in the book written by man is wrong you'd assume he wasn't Jesus to begin with.  Just difference of opinion.