Fundamental Human Rights

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Alter_Ego

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#1 Alter_Ego
Member since 2002 • 884 Posts

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." 

As atheists, since you don't believe in God, from whom then do we recieve our fundamental human rights from?  You better not say the government or the people, because they'll just as soon take them away.  Heck, even when it wasn't theirs to take away, that still didn't stop them from trying for most of history, and in most of the world today.

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#2 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
I get it primarily from cognitivism. Ethical propositions can be self-evident without a higher power deriving them. In fact, by being self-evident, no higher power is necessary at best, and at worst, can be disruptive. For example, if a supreme being sanctions killing innocent beings, that does not make its sanction morally acceptable. Quite the opposite actually, since cognitivism conflicts with the supreme being.
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GabuEx

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#3 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Even if those rights were given to us by God, the government or people could still take them away. That statement is really just a poetic way of saying that they feel that those rights should not be violable by anyone, ever. The idea that humans have fundamental rights that cannot be taken away is nonsense, really: in authoritarian regimes such rights are taken away all the time. The statement is really a veiled "ought", not an "is".

And as Genetic_Code alluded to, the idea that morals come from God (effectively what this is saying) is also a rather problematic thing to say. If morals realy did come from God, then one would have to conclude that killing innocent lives would be perfectly moral provided that some omnipotent creator told us to do so. Rather, we would conclude that God would not do that, because it is immoral. But if there are moral laws that God could theoretically violate, then we must conclude that moral standards do not come from God, but rather that God perfectly obeys them.

I can't find the exact quote at the moment, but there's a quote from Gottfried Leibniz that reads something along these lines: if everything God could possibly do were inherently good, then what would be the purpose of celebrating the good things that God does, if doing the opposite would have been equally good?

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Funky_Llama

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#4 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts
I read an interesting ethical theory - forgot the name - saying that our entire system of ethics can be derived purely from self-ownership. Just thought I'd throw that in there. >_>
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danwallacefan

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#5 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

metaphysically speaking, the Atheist really cannot have an answer to your question. After all, if moral values exist on the atheist worldview, they exist abstractly. How does THAT give us any moral obligation?

Epistemically speaking of course, they are self-evident. Our human rights are in every way properly basic. The Theist approaches the METAPHYSICS of morality and tries to argue that God exists, not the EPISTEMOLOGY of moral values (Unless, of course, the Atheist denies that rights and moral values exist, in which case we have to approach moral epistemology)

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danwallacefan

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#6 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts
I read an interesting ethical theory - forgot the name - saying that our entire system of ethics can be derived purely from self-ownership. Just thought I'd throw that in there. >_>Funky_Llama
that might be egoism, but the again Rand invented that, and that goes all the way back to Locke and beyond. But that system of ethics you're alluding to is the system of ethics that provides the base for the Constitution, as Madison and Washington outline in the Federalist papers.
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btaylor2404

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#7 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
It's overly simple, but I just look at that sentence and say they made a mistake adding the word Creator.  The founding fathers obviously weren't infallible (Slavery).
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MetalGear_Ninty

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#8 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
There is no such thing as 'rights' in an absolutist sense.
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7guns

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#9 7guns
Member since 2006 • 1449 Posts
I believe everyone should be free to live the kind of life they want. This seems like the most basic of all needs and the key to live a satisfying life... I'm not even sure if this qualifies as right but this is something all humans strives to achieve every single moment of their lives...
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lancelot200

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#10 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
There is no such thing as natural rights. I'm too lazy to quote philosophers...