Does anyone else WISH to believe?

As the years pass by and I grow older, I'm finding myself less and less content with what I currently have believed for years and yearn for a more theistic approach, for a variety of reasons, but I just cannot hold faith in what I wish to. It's like trying to force myself to love and embrace a crazy stranger, and even though I've researched Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions (mostly), I see them as complete and utter nonsense and the epitome of ridiculousness and absurdity. Beyond absurd. I'd say more but don't wish to be disrespectful nor modded. But that doesn't mean I don't wish to embrace it. Does that make sense? My head won't even consider what my heart feels like it NEEDS. Me believing in, say, Christianity would be akin to me holding faith that the Earth is flat. It's just not going to happen.

I'm a Pantheist, so to me God is nature and the universe. A cold, impersonal, brutal, albeit extraordinarily beautiful and majestic God, but very indifferent and cruel nonetheless. Aside from intense admiration and reverance towards it, there's nothing there that gives me what I need nor really want. What I need is to feel comforted, loved and cared for in such a world by something greater than myself. I need answers. There, I said it....see it as weak if you want. I need to see hope and love, and from my "faith" I feel I'm simply seeing how things are, and not how I wish them to be--which is one of the reasons I can't adhere to religion. I suppose I'd much rather be right and miserable than wrong and happy. Of course I don't know if I'm right, so that makes it even worse. Hell, if I can't find out either way, I should just swallow whatever makes me content, hook, line, and sinker, right? Man, I'm really quite confused.

It always creates great resentment deep in me when I hear people say that someone "rejects Christ" of their own volition like it's flipping a switch on a wall on or off. Do I reject Christ? No, I accept reason and logic along with a little thing known as "evidence". That they conflict with faith I can't help and am not at fault for. I can't choose, I just believe what I do. Don't people understand that? I've asked those who've told me such things why I'm at fault for what they see as my choice, and they just shrug it off with no attempt at an explanation. I've yet to meet ONE person out there who feels as conflicted as me about this or has even given it any consideration. It always seems to be either "I believe", "I don't know, maybe", or "No, I don't believe." Never "I really wish to believe but just can't".

I'm being truly torn apart by this and don't know what to do. It's on my mind often and has made me an emotional wreck. It's a large part of my life and very important to me as what I believe determines who I am and how I see the world and others, not to mention how I live my life. Has anyone else felt the same or gone through a period of their life conflicted as I am, and if so, how did you go about dealing with it? I'd love to hear stories and insights if you guys don't mind.

Thanks for reading.

Well, I'm a materialist atheist. There is a desire for me to believe that there is a creator God. While I do believe that life has an adaptive purpose, a purpose by which is assigned by the rational being, I have to agree that essentially, all acts of nature are accidents. Saying it like that actually alleviates the depressing feeling by assigning these accidents as nature. However, there's a part of me that desires to believe that there was a creative purpose and not just an adaptive purpose. That someone created us for a reason. I want to be a pantheist/deist, but pantheism is self-defeating because it assumes that God is not eternal and therefore not God and deism is self-defeating because, if I think it's understood correctly, God existed before time and is therefore eternal, which is not possible. Also, simply because God created the universe does not mean he created it with a purpose. Furthermore, if he created the universe and all of the mechanics that make it up, it seems like humans are still accidents, simply a byproduct of a random mechanic, the most obvious case being evolution. So, that makes me want to believe in Intelligent Design, but I can't see that happening for a reason I can't remember right now.

Essentially, I can't conceive of a God that would fit what I see would make the view of the universe better. I do want to believe, but when I think about it, my wants aren't based on solid ground and that doesn't begin the philosophical arguments against God.

EDIT: Also, I could never belief in any of the major religions. Only one (Christianity) do I know anything and care about and it's such a damaging of an ethical code, that I cannot tolerate it, nevertheless all the contradictions and absurdities in it.

Hell, if I can't find out either way, I should just swallow whatever makes me content, hook, line, and sinker, right?Rekunta

No, no you shouldn't. You just said that Abrahamic religions are ridiculous, why whore yourself out to one of them just because you aren't absolutely certain of your own worldview?

Your desires to be comforted, loved and cared for are completely normal. Humanity probably wouldn't have lasted long without such a desire to lead them to society. It's unfortunate though that they've spilled over beyond a want to be loved by people and towards a want to be loved by a transcendental being. That's evolutionary psychology for you though.

Perhaps you need the help of family and friends in this respect. I'm sure someone who knows that they are loved by their wife, mother, father, friends, children etc doesn't need the emotional walking stick of theism quite as much. Go find some company or catch up with some people you haven't seen in a while. It might make you feel a bit better.

As for the overall question of your topic, my wish to believe in God is contingent on God actually existing. If he's there then you're damned straight I want to know about it but if he's not then I'd rather not be deluded. The palatability of the God concept is a bit iffy on its own right though. God's love seems to require that you're afraid of him and that you submit to any of his whims no matter how ridiculous. I don't really know if that's the sort of being I would wish to exist.

In many ways, I feel as if components of Christianity are absurd but I tend to respond by believing it all the more.  I have heard it said by a previous professor of mine that one of the major things God tells us is, "I know this doesn't make sense, but trust me."  I cannot say that I disagree with him.

The apparent absurdities make me think more highly of God because of his complexity, not less of him.  I respond in awe-filled amazement, not disbelief.

This is not to say that I believe because of wishful thinking however.  If I merely believed what I wished to believe then the importance seeking to live a holy life may very well have been thrown out the window a long time ago. :P

I want to be a pantheist/deist, but pantheism is self-defeating because it assumes that God is not eternal and therefore not God and deism is self-defeating because, if I think it's understood correctly, God existed before time and is therefore eternal, which is not possible.

EDIT: Also, I could never belief in any of the major religions. Only one (Christianity) do I know anything and care about and it's such a damaging of an ethical code, that I cannot tolerate it, nevertheless all the contradictions and absurdities in it.

Genetic_Code

Thanks, that's some good food for thought. About the above, why is being eternal/non-eternal a prerequisite for being/not being God? Why does that defeat Pantheism? Personally I don't believe there has always been, but that still doesn't negate the fact that we are here, and that's enough proof to me that God, in whatever form, does exist.

I agree with your edit, that's all the other reasons (in a nutshell) as to what turns me off from the Abrahamic faiths.

[QUOTE="Rekunta"]Hell, if I can't find out either way, I should just swallow whatever makes me content, hook, line, and sinker, right?domatron23

No, no you shouldn't. You just said that Abrahamic religions are ridiculous, why whore yourself out to one of them just because you aren't absolutely certain of your own worldview?

Perhaps you need the help of family and friends in this respect. I'm sure someone who knows that they are loved by their wife, mother, father, friends, children etc doesn't need the emotional walking stick of theism quite as much. Go find some company or catch up with some people you haven't seen in a while. It might make you feel a bit better.

I'm sorry for the string of posts everyone, Glitchspot's quickquote is bugging out.....

That I would whore myself out wouldn't be due to the fact that I'm uncertain of my own views, I'm just as uncertain about the others in equal measure...what I'm saying is, if I can't discern which is correct or not, what's the difference if it makes me happy?

My family is very loving, no problems there. I don't really have any friends at all. Even still, it's not enough. It's not the same to be loved by an equal as it is to be loved by something obviously much greater than myself. Fear also has nothing to do with it, respect but not fear.

I do wish that there existed some sort of omnimax force of good and justice in the universe. But I do not want to believe that this already existing world is the best of all possible worlds that has been created and is overlooked by an allegedly benevolent God. 

I can think of times when I've been alone in bed at the end of the day, either scared or depressed about something, knowing there's nothing I can do about it, and it's at those times at peak awareness of my ultimate vulnerability that I often find myself turning to God.  It's nothing presumptuous - I don't make any demands or anything, nor do I attempt to make any futile bargains ("God, if you'll just give me this, I'll..."); it's more just an admission of my ultimate powerlessness and the fact that it's out of my hands.  And I do always find that it makes me feel better.  And I must admit that I do sometimes wonder - you know, if it's all a lie, if the effect that it has is purely meditative or delusional, if there's really no one and nothing out there listening to me... would it really make my life better to know that as a fact?  I tend to feel the answer is no.

On the other hand, though, you can't force yourself to believe something that you find uncomfortable.  Your brain can't deal with cognitive dissonance, and will inevitably eventually force options off the table until it stops having that dissonance.  So, the fact you want to believe something unfortunately doesn't imply anything about your ability to believe it.  I highly doubt I could say anything that could convince you into it, either.  Although I can offer certain intellectual justifications for my faith, at its heart it's really something I feel more than think.

I believe both that there is a God and that he loves everyone without question.  But, could I make you believe the same?  I unfortunately imagine not.

This is a tricky problem with atheism and one I havent made up my mind yet about. I will add something here though,

If things continue to look bad in life and you sincerely believe in an omnipotent and omniscient god, would a rational person not get incredibly sad to think that a higher being consciously decided to rip you apart? Would it not make you sad that the god you love loves your friend more than you? Why would you accept anything inferior at the hands of a god with unlimited resources?

All of this happened with me. I have realised that adversity is easier to accept when there is none to blame for it.

Old age and permanent adversity are still huge problems though with atheism, I still refer to myself as someone who "wishes to believe" but believing is not nearly as much a win-win situation as some would think.

Thanks, that's some good food for thought. About the above, why is being eternal/non-eternal a prerequisite for being/not being God? Why does that defeat Pantheism? Personally I don't believe there has always been, but that still doesn't negate the fact that we are here, and that's enough proof to me that God, in whatever form, does exist.

I agree with your edit, that's all the other reasons (in a nutshell) as to what turns me off from the Abrahamic faiths.

Rekunta

An appropiate definition for God is an uncreated creator. If God isn't eternal, then he must've been created, therefore violating his very own definition. He would simply not be God. That's why I reject pantheism, because it asserts God is congruent with the universe and since the universe is finite, so must be God, which is a contradition.

Also, I should clarify on my belief regarding Christianity. Why I feel no desire to convert to Christianity or ever go to a church outside of family affairs, I have in the past desired at least calling myself a Christian, because it is complimentary. Also, a lot of good women won't date men simply because they're not Christian. Besides, if they're ignorant, then they're obviously not for me. I don't feel that desire much anymore, but now more of an animisoty towards any person who thinks less of someone as a non-Christian. In fact, it reminds me of a church marquee that I saw the other day, close to Father's Day, that said, "Thank God for Christian Fathers". Now, I honestly question their praise. Why? Because they only thank Christian fathers, when there are plenty of good fathers from other religious backgrounds. Of course though, this church thinks only Christians can do any good, or so I suppose since they're praising them, even though it's in contradiction with their own Bible which states that no man is good and all fall short of the glory of God.

An appropiate definition for God is an uncreated creator. If God isn't eternal, then he must've been created, therefore violating his very own definition. He would simply not be God. That's why I reject pantheism, because it asserts God is congruent with the universe and since the universe is finite, so must be God, which is a contradition.

Genetic_Code

Is it?

I thought the boffins were still out on this one!

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

An appropiate definition for God is an uncreated creator. If God isn't eternal, then he must've been created, therefore violating his very own definition. He would simply not be God. That's why I reject pantheism, because it asserts God is congruent with the universe and since the universe is finite, so must be God, which is a contradition.

RationalAtheist

Is it?

I thought the boffins were still out on this one!

Everything must have a beginning and an end. If something does not have a beginning, how can it exist? There is no answer to that because there is no reality backing it up.

Everything must have a beginning and an end. If something does not have a beginning, how can it exist? There is no answer to that because there is no reality backing it up.

Genetic_Code

I guess you refer to the big bang as being the beginning of the universe - when space-time began? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? I also don't know if this is welcome, since you insist there is no answer, but that won't stop me.

What existed before - if anything, is uncertain. Causality suggests that the chances are that it didn't just start. The cause, if there was one, could potentially explain the path of every atom/energy equivalence from what initiated the big bang - through it - to the universe we perceive today.

Or it might only describe the general principles of the transference of a singularity to initiate the big bang. We'd still all be star-children, but I don't know if you'd accept either as an answer to issues over a connected universe that may have existed in some way outside of the big bang, or as a result of an external system. There is extra difficulty in pondering the "beginnings" and "endings" over space-time, as it relates to the big bang, or any external causal state.

We also have no way to know if our universe isn't a small part of a larger system that we can't begin to detect. Limited perception and understanding is possible due to the speed of light, the relativity of time, our sublime idiocy over dark matter, thinking in more than 4 dimensions, quantum behaviour in sub-atomic particles, or something else we obviously don't properly know about. The big bang was only pondered 100 years ago, The size of universe was only calculated in the 80's, and CERN hasn't been up long. So perhaps its a bit soon to dismiss all possible alternatives just yet.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

An appropiate definition for God is an uncreated creator. If God isn't eternal, then he must've been created, therefore violating his very own definition. He would simply not be God. That's why I reject pantheism, because it asserts God is congruent with the universe and since the universe is finite, so must be God, which is a contradition.

Genetic_Code

Is it?

I thought the boffins were still out on this one!

Everything must have a beginning and an end. If something does not have a beginning, how can it exist? There is no answer to that because there is no reality backing it up.

It would exist beginninglessly of course.

G_C did you ever read that thread where me and Gabu discussed the alleged impossibility of actual infinites? I remember you've brought up this line of reasoning before and it's just no good by my estimation.