Do you go to worship?

I do not disagree though I will say not going to church gives strong evidence to not being a Christian. Indeed, going to church does not make a Christian, but as cars typically drive on roads, Christians fellowship with others within the church.

Here one must understand the definition of the church. Many think of it as the building while Christians are part of the Church of Christ. No desire to be part of the greater Church is a proclamation to not desiring to be part of the body of Christ.

mindstorm

Of course you will say that the true meaning of going to church is not that and probably the people I have known have misunderstood it. And you'll be right.

But when I see an entire society of a town acting like that then somethings is not right. Maybe the term "worshiping" has been promoted in the wrong way all together. Maybe going to church shouldn't be a "must" but a 100% willingful action. I cannot put this through in words unfortunately.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I do not disagree though I will say not going to church gives strong evidence to not being a Christian. Indeed, going to church does not make a Christian, but as cars typically drive on roads, Christians fellowship with others within the church.

Here one must understand the definition of the church. Many think of it as the building while Christians are part of the Church of Christ. No desire to be part of the greater Church is a proclamation to not desiring to be part of the body of Christ.

Teenaged

Of course you will say that the true meaning of going to church is not that and probably the people I have known have misunderstood it. And you'll be right.

But when I see an entire society of a town acting like that then somethings is not right. Maybe the term "worshiping" has been promoted in the wrong way all together. Maybe going to church shouldn't be a "must" but a 100% willingful action. I cannot put this through in words unfortunately.

I agree with you completely.  ...and that is an understatement.  There are too many people considered devout Christians because of their "church involvement" yet are sleeping with their girlfriends...  Indeed everyone is a hypocrite, but many people's priorities are completely out of order.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I do not disagree though I will say not going to church gives strong evidence to not being a Christian. Indeed, going to church does not make a Christian, but as cars typically drive on roads, Christians fellowship with others within the church.

Here one must understand the definition of the church. Many think of it as the building while Christians are part of the Church of Christ. No desire to be part of the greater Church is a proclamation to not desiring to be part of the body of Christ.

mindstorm

Of course you will say that the true meaning of going to church is not that and probably the people I have known have misunderstood it. And you'll be right.

But when I see an entire society of a town acting like that then somethings is not right. Maybe the term "worshiping" has been promoted in the wrong way all together. Maybe going to church shouldn't be a "must" but a 100% willingful action. I cannot put this through in words unfortunately.

I agree with you completely. ...and that is an understatement. There are too many people considered devout Christians because of their "church involvement" yet are sleeping with their girlfriends... Indeed everyone is a hypocrite, but many people's priorities are completely out of order.

But the parent could be kind enough and explain: "we say thank you because we are happy when someone gives us a present and we want him/her to be happy as well for making us happy. But you don't have to say it if you don't want to. Say it when you feel like saying it. Only then it is true and meaningful. All that matters is that you trully love you aunt and that you show her that with your behavior to her."

I hope you understand the connection with worshiping here and how I see it. :P

Oh and the present doesn't mean something like a present in the analogy. That present would most likely represent the gift of life or something like that.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I agree with you completely. ...and that is an understatement. There are too many people considered devout Christians because of their "church involvement" yet are sleeping with their girlfriends... Indeed everyone is a hypocrite, but many people's priorities are completely out of order.

Teenaged

But the parent could be kind enough and explain: "we say thank you because we are happy when someone gives us a present and we want him/her to be happy as well for making us happy. But you don't have to say it if you don't want to. Say it when you feel like saying it. Only then it is true and meaningful. All that matters is that you trully love you aunt and that you show her that with your behavior to her."

I hope you understand the connection with worshiping here and how I see it. :P

Oh and the present doesn't mean something like a present in the analogy. That present would most likely represent the gift of life or something like that.

You seem to understand it better than many Christians I know... Worship is not simply an obligation but should be a geniune praise from the heart which carries itself out in both the corperate worship setting and everyday life.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I do not disagree though I will say not going to church gives strong evidence to not being a Christian. Indeed, going to church does not make a Christian, but as cars typically drive on roads, Christians fellowship with others within the church.

Here one must understand the definition of the church. Many think of it as the building while Christians are part of the Church of Christ. No desire to be part of the greater Church is a proclamation to not desiring to be part of the body of Christ.

mindstorm

Of course you will say that the true meaning of going to church is not that and probably the people I have known have misunderstood it. And you'll be right.

But when I see an entire society of a town acting like that then somethings is not right. Maybe the term "worshiping" has been promoted in the wrong way all together. Maybe going to church shouldn't be a "must" but a 100% willingful action. I cannot put this through in words unfortunately.

I agree with you completely. ...and that is an understatement. There are too many people considered devout Christians because of their "church involvement" yet are sleeping with their girlfriends... Indeed everyone is a hypocrite, but many people's priorities are completely out of order.

Mr Minstorm, a question for you. In your opinion does it really matter whether you believe in a god or not? As long as your a good person.

THUMPTABLE

According to the Bible that is not the case.  I wish it was not the case, but Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." 

Romans 6:23 then states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." 

Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." 

Romans 10:8-10 says, "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." 

Romans 10:13 also says, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 

Jesus states in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ.  Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ.  Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

mindstorm

Out of curiosity, I've always wondered how Christians who believe that reconcile that with the idea that it would basically mean that 2/3 of the entire population of Earth is going to go to hell and deal with that idea - any thoughts on that?  Do you just not think about it?  Is it that it won't matter once you're personally in heaven?

Not trying to pry or anything; I'm just honestly curious.

Just a side note to what you're talking about mindstorm (and correct me if I'm wrong here because I might be talking from my rear end).

Do souls go to the afterlife after death or after the apocalypse? If its the latter do they get a second chance to accept Jess?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ.  Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

GabuEx

Out of curiosity, I've always wondered how Christians who believe that reconcile that with the idea that it would basically mean that 2/3 of the entire population of Earth is going to go to hell and deal with that idea - any thoughts on that?  Do you just not think about it?  Is it that it won't matter once you're personally in heaven?

Not trying to pry or anything; I'm just honestly curious.

Coming to that realization breaks my heart to be honest... Knowing that there are not only billions of strangers I've never met that will go to hell but people I love breaks my heart.  All I know to do about it is tell as many as I can about Jesus Christ being Christ's ambassador to the world.

Many Christians theologically believe in hell, but few practice it to be true.  If they did then the name of Jesus would never come off of our lips...

Just a side note to what you're talking about mindstorm (and correct me if I'm wrong here because I might be talking from my rear end).

Do souls go to the afterlife after death or after the apocalypse? If its the latter do they get a second chance to accept Jess?

domatron23

I have yet to completely come to a conclusion in many ways about this subject.  Jesus said to one of the criminals upon the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise."  I interpret this to mean our souls join Christ in heaven.  At a later date, around the apocalypse, there will be a bodily resurrection of all the faithful and we will spend eternity upon the New Earth.

What I do know for a fact is Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21 describe a New Heavens and a New Earth.  Through God's judgment upon the wicked God literally making all things previous pass away, God creates a New Creation.  This time will be a reign of Christ upon the throne, free from sin, death, suffering, wickedness, etc.  These passages give an interesting visual in what it will be like.  New Jerusalem for example is a city upon the newly recreated earth where all believers can live.  Btw, this is a huge city.

[QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

Mr Minstorm, a question for you. In your opinion does it really matter whether you believe in a god or not? As long as your a good person.

mindstorm

According to the Bible that is not the case. I wish it was not the case, but Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23 then states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:8-10 says, "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:13 also says, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus states in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

Mr Minstorm, a question for you. In your opinion does it really matter whether you believe in a god or not? As long as your a good person.

THUMPTABLE

According to the Bible that is not the case. I wish it was not the case, but Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23 then states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:8-10 says, "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:13 also says, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus states in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

lol, I pretty much have the same beliefs to be honest.  I do not believe it is possible to gain fellowship with God/"go to heaven" without being in a relationship with and being forgiven by Jesus Christ.  As God is holy he expects others to be holy.  We can only be perceived holy by God by the forgiveness of sin through the sacrfice of Jesus Christ.  

You say, "so long as you are a good person."  I do not believe any are good enough apart from Christ, including myself.  You ask, "does it really matter if you believe in god or not?"  Yes, this may sound cliche, but God is not going to let a stranger into his house.  He wants to protect his children from those that are wicked/unforgiven.

"does it really matter if you believe in god or not?"  Yes, this may sound cliche, but God is not going to let a stranger into his house.  He wants to protect his children from those that are wicked/unforgiven.

mindstorm

[QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

Mr Minstorm, a question for you. In your opinion does it really matter whether you believe in a god or not? As long as your a good person.

mindstorm

According to the Bible that is not the case. I wish it was not the case, but Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23 then states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:8-10 says, "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:13 also says, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus states in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

lol, I pretty much have the same beliefs to be honest. I do not believe it is possible to gain fellowship with God/"go to heaven" without being in a relationship with and being forgiven by Jesus Christ. As God is holy he expects others to be holy. We can only be perceived holy by God by the forgiveness of sin through the sacrfice of Jesus Christ.

You say, "so long as you are a good person." I do not believe any are good enough apart from Christ, including myself. You ask, "does it really matter if you believe in god or not?" Yes, this may sound cliche, but God is not going to let a stranger into his house. He wants to protect his children from those that are wicked/unforgiven.

I have to be blunt here but this is where i think that the whole religion thing falls apart big time, follow me or your doomed cliche is utter crap.

THUMPTABLE

Why is Christianity flawed just because it holds to the basis of actions having consequences? If I go and punch a guy in the street, I'm not going to get away with it without punishment. I'll be soon having a call from the police, even if I insist - "THE POLICE DON'T EXIST!!!!" ;)

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

Mr Minstorm, a question for you. In your opinion does it really matter whether you believe in a god or not? As long as your a good person.

THUMPTABLE

According to the Bible that is not the case. I wish it was not the case, but Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23 then states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:8-10 says, "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:13 also says, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus states in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

According to these verses salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Whether you believe this to be true is your choice.

lol, I pretty much have the same beliefs to be honest. I do not believe it is possible to gain fellowship with God/"go to heaven" without being in a relationship with and being forgiven by Jesus Christ. As God is holy he expects others to be holy. We can only be perceived holy by God by the forgiveness of sin through the sacrfice of Jesus Christ.

You say, "so long as you are a good person." I do not believe any are good enough apart from Christ, including myself. You ask, "does it really matter if you believe in god or not?" Yes, this may sound cliche, but God is not going to let a stranger into his house. He wants to protect his children from those that are wicked/unforgiven.

I agree. I find it incredulous that a benevolent diety would care more about faith than actions. I find it petty that such a being would even be concerned about our beliefs.

[QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

I have to be blunt here but this is where i think that the whole religion thing falls apart big time, follow me or your doomed cliche is utter crap.

Lansdowne5

Why is Christianity flawed just because it holds to the basis of actions having consequences? If I go and punch a guy in the street, I'm not going to get away with it without punishment. I'll be soon having a call from the police, even if I insist - "THE POLICE DON'T EXIST!!!!" ;)

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

I have to be blunt here but this is where i think that the whole religion thing falls apart big time, follow me or your doomed cliche is utter crap.

THUMPTABLE

Why is Christianity flawed just because it holds to the basis of actions having consequences? If I go and punch a guy in the street, I'm not going to get away with it without punishment. I'll be soon having a call from the police, even if I insist - "THE POLICE DON'T EXIST!!!!" ;)

Do you? At this very second, how do you know they exist? Is it because you've seen them in the past? If so, what if you had 'not' seen them in the past? Would you still believe they existed?

[QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

I have to be blunt here but this is where i think that the whole religion thing falls apart big time, follow me or your doomed cliche is utter crap.

Lansdowne5

Why is Christianity flawed just because it holds to the basis of actions having consequences? If I go and punch a guy in the street, I'm not going to get away with it without punishment. I'll be soon having a call from the police, even if I insist - "THE POLICE DON'T EXIST!!!!" ;)

[QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="THUMPTABLE"]

I have to be blunt here but this is where i think that the whole religion thing falls apart big time, follow me or your doomed cliche is utter crap.

Lansdowne5

Why is Christianity flawed just because it holds to the basis of actions having consequences? If I go and punch a guy in the street, I'm not going to get away with it without punishment. I'll be soon having a call from the police, even if I insist - "THE POLICE DON'T EXIST!!!!" ;)

Do you? At this very second, how do you know they exist? Is it because you've seen them in the past? If so, what if you had 'not' seen them in the past? Would you still believe they existed?