Xbox One - "Slowest start up I've ever experienced."

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Hearsay_

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#1 Hearsay_
Member since 2014 • 25 Posts

I have been noticing a few things about the new gen console that have altered my gaming in a pretty big way. I spend a lot of time gaming, more so now on PC than Xbone, but that wasn't always the case. Every time I get in the mood to hit up Battlefield with a few mates, or Assassin's Creed, my vibe is destroyed by the seemingly endless wait time of powering the Xbox One up. It takes well over three minutes and if there is an update, which there is usually one a day, it takes over six minutes to actually be able to skip through the last intro video of which ever game is being played.

In a nutshell, the Xbox One takes too long to start up, to load games, to load any snap features, and basically everything else. Now, I love Xbox, it's always been my choice gaming platform, but at the moment I am slowly drifting away from console and towards PC.

Does any one else suffer endless waiting with the Xbox One?

Note: I have my Xbox set to "Power Saving", not "Instant On".

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Gaming-Planet

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#2 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

Probably slow because it uses potato hardware and the servers are actually crap compared to PC.

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tdkmillsy

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#3 tdkmillsy
Member since 2003 • 5819 Posts

I use instant on, always have and its fast. Stating the obvious but why do you think they put that option there.

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xhawk27

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#5 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12181 Posts

@Gaming-Planet said:

Probably slow because it uses potato hardware and the servers are actually crap compared to PC.

XBL servers are better than most of PC servers by a long shot.

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FoxbatAlpha

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#6 FoxbatAlpha
Member since 2009 • 10669 Posts

Cold boot is 60 seconds. If you are not using a great feature like instant on then by all means go buy a Wii U for less complicated, casual gaming.

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bulby_g

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#7 bulby_g
Member since 2005 • 1861 Posts

Thanks to W8 and SSD's most modern PC's start faster than consoles these days, I do find that quite amusing. I have no experience with the XB1 or PS4 but the Wii U took ages to start on release. It's pretty quick now with the quick start option though and is now acceptable IMO.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#8 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

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xhawk27

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#9 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12181 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

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HalcyonScarlet

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#10 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@bulby_g said:

Thanks to W8 and SSD's most modern PC's start faster than consoles these days, I do find that quite amusing. I have no experience with the XB1 or PS4 but the Wii U took ages to start on release. It's pretty quick now with the quick start option though and is now acceptable IMO.

I have that, it's stunning. My boot up and shut down isn't too fast though, but that's because of all the stuff I have on my USB network. But an SSD makes using Windows such a smooth/instant experience and it really feels like it brings out your hardware. Anyone who hasn't upgraded to one should if they can.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#11 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

But they can sort it out. They need to handle it like steam, where I believe it does the download in the background and then only installs the files you need so it's a much less intrusive deal. It makes no sense, because Windows doesn't have these issues either. I really feel like MS released the console in it's absolute bare bones form and neither they, their service or the console was ready for release.

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dommeus

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#12 dommeus
Member since 2004 • 9433 Posts

@hearsay_:

Mate, did you quote yourself in your topic title?

lol

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SolidTy

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#13 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

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xhawk27

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#14 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12181 Posts

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

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SolidTy

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#15  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

I said Installs, not updates.

Installs as in game installs. Xbone Game installs are very slow.

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xhawk27

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#16 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12181 Posts

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

I said Installs, not updates.

Installs as in game installs. Xbone Game installs are very slow.

You said I don't know how fast the Xbox One starts up from experience. Also I am talking about updates not game installs.

Btw- I call the machine Xbox One not Xbone because I am older than 13.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#17  Edited By HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

SO FUCKING SLOW. Bet most people are like 'is this really off the disc'?

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SolidTy

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#18  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

I said Installs, not updates.

Installs as in game installs. Xbone Game installs are very slow.

You said I don't know how fast the Xbox One starts up from experience. Also I am talking about updates not game installs.

Btw- I call the machine Xbox One not Xbone because I am older than 13.

Yes, start ups not counting updates. That would only slow things down. Anyways, that's old news we are onto a precious resource here as you pointed out...

I'm older than 13 too, btw wow! We have a lot in common and we are both very smart. Xb one...Xbone. It's for the speedy typers and you don't have to use space barz in the middle between 'Xb' and 'one'. It's easy to type and everyone knows what it is, especially considering there was a 1st Xbox that released back in 2001 and things can get kind of confusing when talking to users in SW. I keeps it real and easy.

How about 'Xbox Done' or 'Xbox None?' How old do people have to be for those zingers?

I'll stick with Xbone, thanks for the heads up. Xbone give an youthful glow to my skin, like a vitamin-rich skin moisturizer. I am 13 again!

You may have stumbled onto the fountain of youth and it was words this entire time. "Xbone, it makes you young again."

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HalcyonScarlet

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#19 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

I said Installs, not updates.

Installs as in game installs. Xbone Game installs are very slow.

You said I don't know how fast the Xbox One starts up from experience. Also I am talking about updates not game installs.

Btw- I call the machine Xbox One not Xbone because I am older than 13.

I'm older than 13 too, wow! We have a lot in common and we are both very smart. Xb one...Xbone. It's for the speedy typers and you don't have to use space barz.

How about 'Xbox Done' or 'Xbox None?' How old do people have to be for those zingers?

I'll stick with Xbone, thanks for the heads up. Xbone give an youthful glow to my skin, like a vitamin-rich skin moisturizer. I am 13 again!

You may have stumbled onto the fountain of youth and it was words this entire time.

How about X1, it's even quicker ;-)

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SolidTy

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#20  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@SolidTy said:

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

I do have an Xbox One. I got one last month so I should know how long the updates are.

I said Installs, not updates.

Installs as in game installs. Xbone Game installs are very slow.

You said I don't know how fast the Xbox One starts up from experience. Also I am talking about updates not game installs.

Btw- I call the machine Xbox One not Xbone because I am older than 13.

Yes, start ups not counting updates. That would only slow things down. Anyways, that's old news we are onto a precious resource here as you pointed out...

I'm older than 13 too, btw wow! We have a lot in common and we are both very smart. Xb one...Xbone. It's for the speedy typers and you don't have to use space barz in the middle between 'Xb' and 'one'. It's easy to type and everyone knows what it is, especially considering there was a 1st Xbox that released back in 2001 and things can get kind of confusing when talking to users in SW. I keeps it real and easy.

How about 'Xbox Done' or 'Xbox None?' How old do people have to be for those zingers?

I'll stick with Xbone, thanks for the heads up. Xbone give an youthful glow to my skin, like a vitamin-rich skin moisturizer. I am 13 again!

You may have stumbled onto the fountain of youth and it was words this entire time. "Xbone, it makes you young again."

How about X1, it's even quicker ;-)

I tried it a few times here at GS and every now and again I get into a debate with someone over the original Xbox. Plus, typing Xbone also doesn't make my fingers move to those pesky numbers. It keeps me safe in near my precious home row.

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SolidTy

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#21  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts
@HalcyonScarlet said:
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

SO FUCKING SLOW. Bet most people are like 'is this really off the disc'?

I remember thinking when I first got my Xbone how the company that designed the speedy non-installs required 360 (and fast installs too) came up with those Xbone slow install times. I agree, I bet most people are wondering what the deal is.

I am very, very reluctant to ever delete an Xbone install these days, lest I have to re-stall that game in the future. Maybe If I do, I'll call my lady ahead of time on the drive home and have her install games for me so when I walk through the door, it was like I never dealt with the install. Hmmmm...

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tymeservesfate

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#22 tymeservesfate
Member since 2003 • 2230 Posts
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HalcyonScarlet

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#23  Edited By HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@SolidTy said:
@HalcyonScarlet said:
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

SO FUCKING SLOW. Bet most people are like 'is this really off the disc'?

I remember thinking when I first got my Xbone how the company that designed the speedy non-installs required 360 (and fast installs too) came up with those Xbone slow install times. I agree, I bet most people are wondering what the deal is.

I am very, very reluctant to ever delete an Xbone install these days, lest I have to re-stall that game in the future. Maybe If I do, I'll call my lady ahead of time on the drive home and have her install games for me so when I walk through the door, it was like I never dealt with the install. Hmmmm...

I bet they used a slow cheaper BR Drive because they knew people would only use it to install or play media.

I think they can fix it by changing the way games play and install from the disc (so they don't require the whole game to get started) and then have future discs install in the background.

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SolidTy

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#24 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@SolidTy said:
@HalcyonScarlet said:
@SolidTy said:

@xhawk27 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

While I agree cold start up is tediously slow, it's not that bad. I just timed it to see if it took that long and I got around 1min 35sec. Still way too long for a games consoles but no where near as long as you make out.

I absolutely agree about the fucking updates though. An absolute mood killer. System updates are only 400 odd MBs and downloading takes longer than it should. Then you start up a game and an update can be anywhere from 200MB - 2 something GBs. Fucking ridiculous. Big updates should only be done in the background as you play and over a couple of sessions. The console does not handle updates well imo. And the console uses far too much power in instant on mode to use the feature just for that.

Sounds like the PS3. I mean could MS role reverse last gen even more?

Funny you don't know how fast the Xbone boots up from experience.

You should get an Xbone someday. Installs are super slow too, btw.

SO FUCKING SLOW. Bet most people are like 'is this really off the disc'?

I remember thinking when I first got my Xbone how the company that designed the speedy non-installs required 360 (and fast installs too) came up with those Xbone slow install times. I agree, I bet most people are wondering what the deal is.

I am very, very reluctant to ever delete an Xbone install these days, lest I have to re-stall that game in the future. Maybe If I do, I'll call my lady ahead of time on the drive home and have her install games for me so when I walk through the door, it was like I never dealt with the install. Hmmmm...

I bet they used a slow cheaper BR Drive because they knew people would only use it to install or play.

That was probably it.

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remiks00

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#25 remiks00
Member since 2006 • 4249 Posts

You may be suffering from spyware or malware. Try running a scan, that should fix your startup problems.

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sukraj

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#26  Edited By sukraj
Member since 2008 • 27859 Posts

It takes me 30 mins to install a game onto the hardrive.

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kipsta77

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#27  Edited By kipsta77
Member since 2012 • 1119 Posts

I wonder if it'd improve with an SSD.

So much for convenience! I have a SSD in my PC, it boots up in seconds.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#28 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@remiks00 said:

You may be suffering from spyware or malware. Try running a scan, that should fix your startup problems.

He's talking about the X1.

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delta3074

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#29 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

It takes about 4 minutes for my Tablet to start up so the Xbone is actually quite fast to me,lol

Not that console start up times should be an issue anyway.

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delta3074

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#30 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

@SolidTy said:

I remember thinking when I first got my Xbone how the company that designed the speedy non-installs required 360 (and fast installs too) came up with those Xbone slow install times. I agree, I bet most people are wondering what the deal is.

I am very, very reluctant to ever delete an Xbone install these days, lest I have to re-stall that game in the future. Maybe If I do, I'll call my lady ahead of time on the drive home and have her install games for me so when I walk through the door, it was like I never dealt with the install. Hmmmm...

good point ty, it's kind of a step backwards from the 360 really, going from blindingly fast installs to extremely slow installs would get my goat up as well, nobody wants to take a step back man.

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YD_11

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#31 YD_11
Member since 2006 • 1867 Posts

Using the instant on feature (i don't know why you wouldnt), my xbox one beats my tv turning on. By the time my picture comes on the tv, I'm already signed in and waiting at the X1 dashboard

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HalcyonScarlet

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#32 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13636 Posts
@delta3074 said:

It takes about 4 minutes for my Tablet to start up so the Xbone is actually quite fast to me,lol

Not that console start up times should be an issue anyway.

I thought tablets are instant.

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delta3074

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#33 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@delta3074 said:

It takes about 4 minutes for my Tablet to start up so the Xbone is actually quite fast to me,lol

Not that console start up times should be an issue anyway.

I thought tablets are instant.

nah, not these days, start up's where pretty fast back in the android 2.X days but since kit-kat (4.4) my Nexus 7 (2012) takes ages to boot up, i run Cyanogen mod 4.1 on my old Galaxy S1 (it was the only way to get it above android 2.6) so thats a bit faster but phones and tablets in general take longer than most consoles to boot up.

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MlauTheDaft

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#34 MlauTheDaft
Member since 2011 • 5189 Posts

My last boot took 7.5 seconds according to task manager. I dare say consoles boot up slowly.

SSDs don't even have to be expensive. Samsung 840 Evos are of good quality and reasonably fast.

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GamersJustGame

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#35 GamersJustGame
Member since 2014 • 323 Posts

@hearsay_:

It's lighting fast for me. Sucks to be you.

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sukraj

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#36 sukraj
Member since 2008 • 27859 Posts

@gamersjustgame said:

@hearsay_:

It's lighting fast for me. Sucks to be you.

don't say that dude share some brotherly love.

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Chutebox

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#37  Edited By Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50494 Posts

I always turn mine completely off and I'm pretty sure it doesn't take 3 minutes

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deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318

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#38 deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318
Member since 2008 • 4166 Posts

It is a bit sluggish with installs, updates and booting things up especially compared to the PS4. I've got to give Sony kudos for putting some thought and time behind it being able to get into games as quickly as possible.

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chikenfriedrice

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#39 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

I don't have that problem

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Heil68

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#40 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60679 Posts

PS4 wins again and lets not go into game installs at this time.

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Edge_Plus

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#41 Edge_Plus
Member since 2013 • 135 Posts

Seems like nobody with an Xbox One has that problem but YOU. @hearsay_

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ironcreed

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#42 ironcreed
Member since 2005 • 14195 Posts

So use instant on mode then. As for myself, I am also using power saving mode, but don't have a problem waiting around a minute for it to start. I am not that impatient.

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hehe101

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#43  Edited By hehe101
Member since 2011 • 734 Posts

use instant then... Some people really? Use your brain if you're that bothered

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blackace

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#44 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

@tdkmillsy said:

I use instant on, always have and its fast. Stating the obvious but why do you think they put that option there.

If you keep it in a stand-by mode, it boots up pretty fast. If you boot it up from it being completely off, it's a bit slow. It was fairly fast when there was nothing on the HDD, but as the HDD gets full, the boot up becomes slower. Same thing happens with my XBox 360. I have 2 XBox 360 and my older XBox 360 with almost nothing on it boots up quickly. The 360 Slim with only 6 GB of memory left, takes almost a minute to come up as it tries to sign onto XBL.

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blackace

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#45 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

@Heil68 said:

PS4 wins again and lets not go into game installs at this time.

Ps4 does boot a bit faster. My DC Online install took all night. Of course it like 22GB in size. lol!! My PS4 actually shut down before it was finished and I had to continue the install the next day.

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Edge_Plus

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#46 Edge_Plus
Member since 2013 • 135 Posts

wow, all night for 22 gbs is horrible. Watchdogs is 20 gbs and I was able to play it within 5 minutes.

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Quaker-w00ts

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#47  Edited By Quaker-w00ts
Member since 2009 • 1646 Posts

Took me 2 days to install DR3.

Lolxbone

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mikhail

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#49 mikhail
Member since 2003 • 2697 Posts

@delta3074 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:
@delta3074 said:

It takes about 4 minutes for my Tablet to start up so the Xbone is actually quite fast to me,lol

Not that console start up times should be an issue anyway.

I thought tablets are instant.

nah, not these days, start up's where pretty fast back in the android 2.X days but since kit-kat (4.4) my Nexus 7 (2012) takes ages to boot up, i run Cyanogen mod 4.1 on my old Galaxy S1 (it was the only way to get it above android 2.6) so thats a bit faster but phones and tablets in general take longer than most consoles to boot up.

Your tablet is slow because you've modded it to death. My Nexus 7 takes about 15 seconds to fully boot from power off state.

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clone01

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#50 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29822 Posts

I think the updates are slow, but I've never had an issue with boot up time. And that's from completely powered off.