XBOX LIVE COMPUTE: The Difference Engine

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#1 Posted by Evo_nine (1741 posts) -

""We are giving this resource away to them for free, so there is a huge incentive to utilise it on Xbox One as much as possible"

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-10-15-the-difference-engine

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Free dedicated servers available to all developers!

GAME CHANGER, beat that Sony.

#2 Posted by McStrongfast (4271 posts) -

Emotion Engine vs Difference Engine

FIGHT!

#3 Posted by hoosier7 (3846 posts) -

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good. Personally i need to know:

1) How does the location of MS' data centres compare to the dedicated servers of last gen? MS seems to have only a handful at the moment, my nearest will give me near to 100ms of latency. There are many regions that simply don't have data centres, do they just have to wait?

2) How much is done server side? Is it more like Killzone where it's essentially P2P with the server connecting them together? His mention of "things like peer distribution" seems to suggest it.

3) What are Respawn using the cloud for exactly? They're consistently used as an example of offloading CPU tasks but all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is and it doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking going off the gameplay as it's not a particularly good looking game.

However this does seem to be offering good tools for the developers and taking a time constraint out of the process of building the multiplayer which is always nice.

#4 Edited by XBOunity (2981 posts) -

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

#5 Posted by hoosier7 (3846 posts) -

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Top post as usual XBOunity, added absolutely nothing, didn't try to argue any of my points...

#6 Posted by psymon100 (6138 posts) -

Well I'll say, it just so happens I have a picture of a "Difference Engine" handy:

Well what a modern piece of machinery it is.

This might seem like a joke, but as soon as I saw 'Difference Engine', this is what I thought of. Basically, the first 'computer' ever. Pretty funny to give a new piece of tech the same name as a super old piece of tech. lol, Xbox 'one'.

#7 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7430 posts) -

The news that cows don't want to hear. Seems to be more frequent these days. Sorry that Sony is stuck with a system from 2003. Bye.

#8 Edited by TruthBToldShow (328 posts) -

@hoosier7 said:

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good. Personally i need to know:

1) How does the location of MS' data centres compare to the dedicated servers of last gen? MS seems to have only a handful at the moment, my nearest will give me near to 100ms of latency. There are many regions that simply don't have data centres, do they just have to wait?

2) How much is done server side? Is it more like Killzone where it's essentially P2P with the server connecting them together? His mention of "things like peer distribution" seems to suggest it.

3) What are Respawn using the cloud for exactly? They're consistently used as an example of offloading CPU tasks but all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is and it doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking going off the gameplay as it's not a particularly good looking game.

However this does seem to be offering good tools for the developers and taking a time constraint out of the process of building the multiplayer which is always nice.

Well done

#9 Posted by blackace (20890 posts) -

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Well yeah. Because Sony is paying NeoGaf. lol!! They are their to promote the PS4 obviously and will bad mouth anything XBox One. I'm surprised they let Albert post.

#10 Posted by Jankarcop (9640 posts) -

moron engine

#11 Posted by Joedgabe (5127 posts) -

@blackace said:

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Well yeah. Because Sony is paying NeoGaf. lol!! They are their to promote the PS4 obviously and will bad mouth anything XBox One. I'm surprised they let Albert post.

Do you even read your posts sometimes to realize how ridiculous your conspiracy theory's are ? lol

as regards to the thread, Sony can't afford the servers because they're not filthy rich like M$, even though they have soo much money instead of investing some to make at least one last 360 game they're using up all that money on adds and T.V campaign.. the reason why i'm getting a Ps4 instead of an X1. They're gonna be the same in terms of capabilities, but i know for sure the PS4 will be handled with games. .while the X1 is just... unclear.. ?__?

#12 Posted by superclocked (5823 posts) -

The XB1's move engines have custom compression hardware that is supposed to make cloud computing work well with current internet connections. It'll be interesting to see what devs can do with it, especially a few years down the road...

#13 Edited by McStrongfast (4271 posts) -

@superclocked said:

The XB1's move engines have custom compression hardware that is supposed to make cloud computing work well with current internet connections. It'll be interesting to see what devs can do with it, especially a few years down the road...

Maybe core selling points of the console will be available outside the US by then as well. Exciting times.

#14 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (5162 posts) -

This will end up like Kinect, Sixaxis and Wii waggle: unused by most third-party devs (except for, in this case, MMORPG makers) and only really used by first-party. Prepare for major disappointment.

#15 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (5162 posts) -

@hoosier7 said:

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Top post as usual XBOunity, added absolutely nothing, didn't try to argue any of my points...

It's pnf4lyfe off Twitter, what did you expect?

#16 Edited by hoosier7 (3846 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher said:

@hoosier7 said:

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Top post as usual XBOunity, added absolutely nothing, didn't try to argue any of my points...

It's pnf4lyfe off Twitter, what did you expect?

I've just checked that out now and it's pretty tragic! Lol

#17 Posted by murray69murray (126 posts) -

whats this tech mambo jambo?

#18 Posted by tormentos (18385 posts) -

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

You mean the same Panello who lied on neogaf and was call on its lies.?

The cloud is BS dude,and any game that requires it mean that is totally out of reach of people who don't have internet,king of make the whole 24 hour check up drop irrelevant when its games will need online if the use the cloud,developers know this that is the reason why only a hand full of games actually support the cloud,it cut potential sales which on launch already are low do to competition and low number of units available.

Cloud is a gimmick,funny how MS now refers to it more as compute and less in a cloud name like they did before,they know they were make fun with the whole cloud crap and want to drop the whole cloud naming,.

#19 Posted by tormentos (18385 posts) -

@superclocked said:

The XB1's move engines have custom compression hardware that is supposed to make cloud computing work well with current internet connections. It'll be interesting to see what devs can do with it, especially a few years down the road...

Move engines are nothing more than DMA on GCN all GCN have 2 the xbox one has 4,i don't think is in place for internet cloud computing,and i think they are more in place for Kinect.

#20 Posted by NFJSupreme (5379 posts) -

Still wait and see for me but I'm paying attention. Hopefully it isn't long till we see how this is implemented

#21 Posted by Chutebox (37403 posts) -

Old

#22 Posted by Senor_Kami (8429 posts) -

@hoosier7 said:

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good.

How could it possibly be bad?

#23 Posted by SUD123456 (4488 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

You mean the same Panello who lied on neogaf and was call on its lies.?

The cloud is BS dude,and any game that requires it mean that is totally out of reach of people who don't have internet,king of make the whole 24 hour check up drop irrelevant when its games will need online if the use the cloud,developers know this that is the reason why only a hand full of games actually support the cloud,it cut potential sales which on launch already are low do to competition and low number of units available.

Cloud is a gimmick,funny how MS now refers to it more as compute and less in a cloud name like they did before,they know they were make fun with the whole cloud crap and want to drop the whole cloud naming,.

Yes because dedicated servers and free resources is bad. Your fanboyism is pitiful.

#24 Edited by ProjectNatalFan (2471 posts) -

@tormentos: its penello and of course its only real when you are playing that pseudo killzone dedis oh yeahhhhhhhh

#25 Edited by Niles-Crane (13 posts) -

I prefer...the World Engine

#26 Posted by Netherscourge (16328 posts) -

Here we go again!

#27 Edited by RR360DD (12001 posts) -

@hoosier7 said:

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good. Personally i need to know:

1) How does the location of MS' data centres compare to the dedicated servers of last gen? MS seems to have only a handful at the moment, my nearest will give me near to 100ms of latency. There are many regions that simply don't have data centres, do they just have to wait?

2) How much is done server side? Is it more like Killzone where it's essentially P2P with the server connecting them together? His mention of "things like peer distribution" seems to suggest it.

3) What are Respawn using the cloud for exactly? They're consistently used as an example of offloading CPU tasks but all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is and it doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking going off the gameplay as it's not a particularly good looking game.

However this does seem to be offering good tools for the developers and taking a time constraint out of the process of building the multiplayer which is always nice.

Its not being done by Sony, so already for you its bad.

But i'll bite

1) Handful of main data centres maybe, but you're forgetting the numerous physical nodes they have around the world as well. I'm pretty sure everywhere the XOne is launching in is covered.

2) Well if Titanfall is any indication of whats to come, then no its nothing like the system Killzone impliments

3) They're using it for the AI. The AI is calculated server side. Dice are doing the exact same thing with the waves in BF4. They're calculated server side so that naval combat is actually feasible. (Riiight I guess its just accidentally winning awards left, right and centre)

#28 Edited by ProjectNatalFan (2471 posts) -

@RR360DD said:

@hoosier7 said:

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good. Personally i need to know:

1) How does the location of MS' data centres compare to the dedicated servers of last gen? MS seems to have only a handful at the moment, my nearest will give me near to 100ms of latency. There are many regions that simply don't have data centres, do they just have to wait?

2) How much is done server side? Is it more like Killzone where it's essentially P2P with the server connecting them together? His mention of "things like peer distribution" seems to suggest it.

3) What are Respawn using the cloud for exactly? They're consistently used as an example of offloading CPU tasks but all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is and it doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking going off the gameplay as it's not a particularly good looking game.

However this does seem to be offering good tools for the developers and taking a time constraint out of the process of building the multiplayer which is always nice.

Its not being done by Sony, so already for you its bad.

But i'll bite

1) Handful of main data centres maybe, but you're forgetting the numerous physical nodes they have around the world as well. I'm pretty sure everywhere the XOne is launching in is covered.

2) Well if Titanfall is any indication of whats to come, then no its nothing like the system Killzone impliments

3) They're using it for the AI. The AI is calculated server side. Dice are doing the exact same thing with the waves in BF4. They're calculated server side so that naval combat is actually feasible. (Riiight I guess its just accidentally winning awards left, right and centre)

ohhhhh yeahhhh truth hertz. Cows wanna make believe that the cloud compute is a hoax and nothing positive will come of it, oh well it can only last so long for them. This move by Microsoft is awesome for devs. No other way to slice it, this kills neogaf and the usual suspects.

#29 Posted by Shewgenja (9640 posts) -

People touting "the power of the cloud" remind me of the raccoon.

#30 Posted by ProjectNatalFan (2471 posts) -

@Shewgenja: Yes I Know today has been a bad day for you. Driveclub delay, that horrendous 16 minute U.I video that looks like childs play compared to XBO UI and dedicated/cloud compute offer to every dev free of charge for XBO where Sony is struggling and way behind in this regard. lol if only you knew about software buddy.

#31 Edited by firefox59 (4409 posts) -

@Joedgabe said:

@blackace said:

@XBOunity said:

@hoosier7: its funny watching the usual suspects here anf those at neogaf try to discount this news. Neogaf was saying it wasnt true until albert penello said explicitly it was.

Well yeah. Because Sony is paying NeoGaf. lol!! They are their to promote the PS4 obviously and will bad mouth anything XBox One. I'm surprised they let Albert post.

Do you even read your posts sometimes to realize how ridiculous your conspiracy theory's are ? lol

as regards to the thread, Sony can't afford the servers because they're not filthy rich like M$, even though they have soo much money instead of investing some to make at least one last 360 game they're using up all that money on adds and T.V campaign.. the reason why i'm getting a Ps4 instead of an X1. They're gonna be the same in terms of capabilities, but i know for sure the PS4 will be handled with games. .while the X1 is just... unclear.. ?__?

You're hating on a company for advertising? Really? Not a problem with the ads but the fact that they ARE advertising. Wow. Looks like SDF really has nothing to say about his.

#32 Edited by hoosier7 (3846 posts) -

@RR360DD said:

@hoosier7 said:

There's so many missing details as to whether this is actually any good. Personally i need to know:

1) How does the location of MS' data centres compare to the dedicated servers of last gen? MS seems to have only a handful at the moment, my nearest will give me near to 100ms of latency. There are many regions that simply don't have data centres, do they just have to wait?

2) How much is done server side? Is it more like Killzone where it's essentially P2P with the server connecting them together? His mention of "things like peer distribution" seems to suggest it.

3) What are Respawn using the cloud for exactly? They're consistently used as an example of offloading CPU tasks but all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is and it doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking going off the gameplay as it's not a particularly good looking game.

However this does seem to be offering good tools for the developers and taking a time constraint out of the process of building the multiplayer which is always nice.

Its not being done by Sony, so already for you its bad.

But i'll bite

1) Handful of main data centres maybe, but you're forgetting the numerous physical nodes they have around the world as well. I'm pretty sure everywhere the XOne is launching in is covered.

2) Well if Titanfall is any indication of whats to come, then no its nothing like the system Killzone impliments

3) They're using it for the AI. The AI is calculated server side. Dice are doing the exact same thing with the waves in BF4. They're calculated server side so that naval combat is actually feasible. (Riiight I guess its just accidentally winning awards left, right and centre)

All i see is assumptions.

1) Nodes don't make up for a huge amount when it's still coming from the data centres, example, Dubai, i believe the nearest data centre is Belgium? You can't make up that sort of distance with nodes. This aspect feels planned from the initial standpoint MS took in having always on consoles in a handful of the biggest regions. If you travel as i do then there's no guarantee of these features yet again. It's a physical restriction, no two ways about this one.

2) Eh? Titanfall's no indication as there's been no confirmation of what's done server side hence point three, no mention of server mechanics involving the player. The devs themselves admitted the main improvement was in aspects in the multiplayer like host migration and the fact they don't have to source the servers themselves, which saved them time and money (as i acknowledged i might add). Given they've cozied up to MS they don't offer an example of what will be experience across all games too. Why do you think they're shipped out as the main bastion of MS' online power? It's plausible that the deal they've got is that Titanfall will receive full dedicated servers as you claim, but there's no proof of what every other game will receive. Why do you think everyone else is dead silent on the topic? There's a plethora of games that haven't been confirmed to be using the dedicated servers. It's odd that a developer wouldn't be screaming this from the rooftops that their game has dedicated servers and yet a few games such as EA's racing game were P2P last time they announced anything on the subject. Hence why i'm sceptical of all devs. I was clueless because of how well Killzone's system worked. It wouldn't surprise me if 9/10 of the last gen's games with dedicated servers ran off similar systems and it was just used as a marketing tool for the hardcore.

3) *slow clap* "all we get is the vague "AI" answer. We've no clue how substantial it is" Again, what parts of the AI? Interactions, pathfinding, group control of pathfinding or minor considerations such as the data collection as used in Forza? Data collection that is interpreted and applied to a limited set of criteria to give a play style to either mimic players (as Forza does) or to counter how a player is playing? We're utterly blind in this aspect. For a purely multiplayer title, it's fair to be sceptical as to the extent of the AI in the game. *facepalm* don't bring up awards we've all seen how that can go in unreleased titles and it seems little more than your fall back argument these days especially that as a lemming you now bring up awards when the Xbox was stomped most of the gen with MGS4 and Uncharted sweeping up the awards. You've also been critical of Killzone in the past despite it winning best multiplayer here before?

I'd love a link to the stuff on BF4's waves though. I'm interested how substantial it is given going off recent info the PS4 seems to be running BF4 at 1080p to the Xbox's 900p. If it is the case won't Dice be doing it across all systems removing any exclusivity to the Xbox anyway? Or is the PS4 hardware strong enough to make up the gap anyway?

#33 Posted by Krelian-co (11239 posts) -

microsoft: why invest in decent hardware when you can misuse a word and hype it till idiots believe it.

#34 Posted by magicalclick (22852 posts) -

Free? Wow, MS is sure rich. It will take time to see more advanced and creative utilization on it. But, for starter, I sure love to see games hosted as dynamically allocated virtual server on the cloud. More players on the map and have more server side physics. Technically I love it is cloud over individual dedicated servers specifically build for one game and at most build for one publisher. The cloud is build for all Xbox One games, so, the workload is easily maxed at number of XBL Gold members online at same time. It is a much better use of resources and manage. No more opening up and shutting down servers. Logically, my use of online computational power can be moved from one game to another, which is not possible on traditional dedicated servers.

#35 Edited by XBOunity (2981 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

Free? Wow, MS is sure rich. It will take time to see more advanced and creative utilization on it. But, for starter, I sure love to see games hosted as dynamically allocated virtual server on the cloud. More players on the map and have more server side physics. Technically I love it is cloud over individual dedicated servers specifically build for one game and at most build for one publisher. The cloud is build for all Xbox One games, so, the workload is easily maxed at number of XBL Gold members online at same time. It is a much better use of resources and manage. No more opening up and shutting down servers. Logically, my use of online computational power can be moved from one game to another, which is not possible on traditional dedicated servers.

yep its definitely an awesome feature. Do you think indie devs will also use this cloud compute????