Xbox 360 eDRAM benefit turns into a liability.

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L1qu1dSword

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#51 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="user_nat"]So um.. just don't use the eDRAM then? How is that a liability.. its not like the competition has that to give it an advantage over the xbox.skektek

The possibility of precluding the use of the eDRAM is discussed in the thread. It is a liability in the sense that if it is used resolution has to be sacrificed. It is also a liability in the sense that it opens the door for setting a bad precedent for development.

I think a bad precedent for development is the skimping of important gaming features like video ram by SONY in favor of pushing their NON-gaming interests down the throats of their once-massive fanbase. Blu-Ray is just flat out unnecsary. It drove the cost of the console way up while also causing it to lose out in additional technologies that would have given the company a better edge going into this battle. I'm sorry but 256mb of vid mem is just not enough for a console that costs as much as the PS3 has this generation.

Thankfully the people have spoken and SONY's arrogant treatment of fans has been noted and responded to by the consumer and SONY suffers. The companies that focus on the games are the ones that win. That's what made PS2 so great. That's what make 360 and Wii hands down better.

The PS3's RSX is a TurboCache GPU, it addresses both banks of 256MB memory. While the amount of available memory is less on the PS3 thanks to the bloated OS (which I personally think is stupid) it is not as low as you think it is.

BS 256mb only is dedicated to graphics. Give me a link that says the PS3 has more then 256mb of video memmory.

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L1qu1dSword

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#52 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

"Sony fans are going to have to work overtime to buy this console" - Kutaragi

Is THAT the precedent you would prefer to see set?

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MrSickVisionz

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#53 MrSickVisionz
Member since 2004 • 798 Posts

Its a non issue until you're playing a game in HD and you're thinking to yourself... "theres something odd going on with the image. I can't put my finger on it but theres something weird happening." Until that day, its irrelevant. Its like video and audio compression. You don't need anything higher if people don't notice a difference without being told to listen/look for a difference. Its a complaint tech heads say about the audio on HD=DVD since it uses a different compression format. If you have two identical films side-by-side and you listen to them back and forth, multiple times and being instructed to listen for a difference, you may be able to kinda hear a difference. However, if you're just at a friends house and you watch a film then he asks the vague question, "ok, what was wrong about this movie from a technical standpoint?" you're going to draw a blank (or you'll name something totally different) because nothing was wrong to the point where you noticed it.

Bottomline: its irrelevant until you can notice it on your own.

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dipper145

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#54 dipper145
Member since 2007 • 1425 Posts
This just in: no one really cares.
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TOAO_Cyrus1

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#55 TOAO_Cyrus1
Member since 2004 • 2895 Posts

Upon the Xbox 360 launch one of the most heralded features of the new hardware was the eDRAM that accompanied the Xenos GPU. The eDRAM is an embedded 10MB bank of DRAM with additional logic for post processing effects. It seemed like a win-win situation where developers could get "free" AA, DOF, motion blur, etc. Well it turns out that nothing is "free", everything has a price. The 10MB of eDRAM isn't large enough to store a 720p image, the largest image that can be stored is in a non-standard-sub-HD video mode dubbed "640p". Consequently many Xbox 360 games (Halo 3, PGR3/4 etc) aren't native HD. There is a work around called "tiling" which breaks the image into individual parts for processing and then reassembles them for display. Tiling itself takes time and CPU cycles negating the benefits of the eDRAM. This fact is apparent in the PGR3/4 developement cycle. The Xbox 360 launch title PGR3 was not HD only 640p, the reason for this, as stated by the developers, was that they didn't have time to implement tiling for the launch. Time goes by an PGR4 is released at 640p with no tiling. Why? Because tiling isn't free. It is simply easier to lower your target from HD to 640p. The eDRAM limitation is propagating the use of 640p* to other big franchises such as Halo and COD. And thanks to the Xbox 360 being the lowest common denominator development platform the eDRAM limitation is spilling over onto the PS3 via multiplatform games. So much for Peter Moore's "HD era". *to be perfectly fair there is a two-fold benefit to using 640p as opposed to HD: obviously the first benefit is that it can be processed in the Xbox 360's eDRAM the other being that it is simply less pixels for the hardware to have to push around (a kind of intermediary step between SD and HD).skektek

Um they could use a normal frame buffer on the regular ram but devs seem to think its better to use slightly lower resolutions. Native resolution is the easiest thing to change so I highly doubt its effecting the PS3 at all. PC games canhave infinite resolutions by simpily changing two lines in an INI file.

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Ninja-Vox

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#56 Ninja-Vox
Member since 2006 • 16314 Posts
This is nit-picking to the extreme. People are looking for ownage in all the wrong places today.
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Steppy_76

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#57 Steppy_76
Member since 2005 • 2857 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="user_nat"]So um.. just don't use the eDRAM then? How is that a liability.. its not like the competition has that to give it an advantage over the xbox.skektek

The possibility of precluding the use of the eDRAM is discussed in the thread. It is a liability in the sense that if it is used resolution has to be sacrificed. It is also a liability in the sense that it opens the door for setting a bad precedent for development.

I think a bad precedent for development is the skimping of important gaming features like video ram by SONY in favor of pushing their NON-gaming interests down the throats of their once-massive fanbase. Blu-Ray is just flat out unnecsary. It drove the cost of the console way up while also causing it to lose out in additional technologies that would have given the company a better edge going into this battle. I'm sorry but 256mb of vid mem is just not enough for a console that costs as much as the PS3 has this generation.

Thankfully the people have spoken and SONY's arrogant treatment of fans has been noted and responded to by the consumer and SONY suffers. The companies that focus on the games are the ones that win. That's what made PS2 so great. That's what make 360 and Wii hands down better.

The PS3's RSX is a TurboCache GPU, it addresses both banks of 256MB memory. While the amount of available memory is less on the PS3 thanks to the bloated OS (which I personally think is stupid) it is not as low as you think it is.

It can address both banks of memory, but unlike how you pointed out the penalty for using tiling to store a 720p framebuffer, you didn't both to point out that there is a penalty for accessing the XDR for the RSX. Effectively making devs try to dip into the XDR as little as possible. The RSX basically has 256 meg of RAM to use with the ability to dip into the other pool at a penalty. AKAIK, the XDR penalty is worth than tiling the framebuffer.
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MikeE21286

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#58 MikeE21286
Member since 2003 • 10405 Posts

So what you're saying is that no xbox 360 games are in HD and if a developer wants to meke them HD they have to have a longer development to do so...

Could this be an explanation as to why many early gen PS3 ports have framerate difficulties? Because of the xbox 360 deficiencies in rendering HD images so they have to use these tiling methods.....?

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skektek

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#59 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts
Give me a link that says the PS3 has more then 256mb of video memmory.L1qu1dSword
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jangojay

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#60 jangojay
Member since 2007 • 4044 Posts

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]Give me a link that says the PS3 has more then 256mb of video memmory.skektek

lol the word flops is there =/

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skektek

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#61 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]Give me a link that says the PS3 has more then 256mb of video memmory.jangojay

lol the word flops is there =/

Thank you for that enlightening interjection Beavis ;)
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Mystery_Writer

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#62 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

Skektek,

Frankly you bring a valid (and what seems not well known to many here) argument, which is X360 eDRAM seems indeed one of the main reasons behind the sub-HD resolution.

Also this argument was indeed stated back in X360 launch with PGR3, where Bizzar Creation had to render sub-HD resolution to get HDR + AA through the eDRAM.

However, I'm sensing you're trying to shove a false claim with this eDRAM fact that you have.

The false claim is X360 is the lowest common denominator.

I've noticed you're a very good debater, but this habit of yours, for lack of a better term, pulling stuff out of your hiney, is what usually gets you at the end. :)

It gets you because your threads, more often than not, are very interesting and attract someone knowledgeable at the end, where you'll get called for the false claims and end up unfortunately (I don't know why u do that) taking losing your argument personally and leaving the forums for a while.

Anyway, for the subject, here is an interesting thought; why is it multiplats (say Madden) perform better on X360 if it's the lowest common denominator?

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Toyeboy

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#63 Toyeboy
Member since 2005 • 1133 Posts
Who cares??? It looks very clearwhen I set my 360 to720p and the games are amazing so what difference does it make?? The 360 has awesome looking games in HD and these numbers don't change that fact...
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skektek

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#64 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts

Skektek,

Frankly you bring a valid (and what seems not well known to many here) argument, which is X360 eDRAM seems indeed one of the main reasons behind the sub-HD resolution.

Also this argument was indeed stated back in X360 launch with PGR3, where Bizzar Creation had to render sub-HD resolution to get HDR + AA through the eDRAM.

However, I'm sensing you're trying to shove a false claim with this eDRAM fact that you have.

The false claim is X360 is the lowest common denominator.

I've noticed you're a very good debater, but this habit of yours, for lack of a better term, pulling stuff out of your hiney, is what usually gets you at the end. :)

It gets you because your threads, more often than not, are very interesting and attract someone knowledgeable at the end, where you'll get called for the false claims and end up unfortunately (I don't know why u do that) taking losing your argument personally and leaving the forums for a while.

Anyway, for the subject, here is an interesting thought; why is it multiplats (say Madden) perform better on X360 if it's the lowest common denominator?

Mystery_Writer
1. I don't make false claims. Everything I post I believe to be true as far as I can research (I choose my battles carefully). 2. I don't take anything about System Wars personally. The lowest common denominator is also, more often than not, the lead development platform. Also not all multiplat games are better on the Xbox 360.
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Funkyhamster

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#65 Funkyhamster
Member since 2005 • 17366 Posts
640p looks pretty HD to me... and 720p can look pretty nasty on a 1080p HDTV so it doesn't really bother me. MS should be honest about the fact that they're using a slightly lower resolution though...
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Mystery_Writer

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#66 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

2. I don't take anything about System Wars personally. skektek

it's just that incident, with the lead developer calling you out, and you dissappearing afterwards somewhat gave the wrong impression.

Anyway, glad it's not the case. :)


The lowest common denominator is also, more often than not, the lead development platform. skektek

Since we both agree on this statement of yours. let me then lead you with this question; which one is easier (more often than not), porting from the lowest common denominator to the highest, or the other way around?

Also not all multiplat games are better on the Xbox 360.skektek

agreed, sometimes (say call of duty 4) they're pretty much the same. But again, if we factor the "more often than not" angle, it's hard to argue X360 multiplats superiority.

Anyway, let's focus on one thought ; (I remember you had difficulties doing that in the past :) ), here is the keyword for the argument : loweset common denominator.

And we're at the point discussing the following thought; which one is easier (more often than not), porting from the lowest common denominator to the highest, or the other way around?

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The_Game21x

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#67 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

This is nit-picking to the extreme. People are looking for ownage in all the wrong places today.Ninja-Vox

Some folks never pass on the opportunity to bash an opposing platform.

*cough*

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skektek

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#68 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts

[QUOTE="skektek"]2. I don't take anything about System Wars personally. Mystery_Writer

it's just that incident, with the lead developer calling you out, and you dissappearing afterwards somewhat gave the wrong impression.

Anyway, glad it's not the case. :)

I believe that you are thinking of Red-Cloak and this thread. EDIT: that is the correct thread.

[QUOTE="skektek"]
The lowest common denominator is also, more often than not, the lead development platform. Mystery_Writer

Since we both agree on this statement of yours. let me then lead you with this question; which one is easier (more often than not), porting from the lowest common denominator to the highest, or the other way around?

Also not all multiplat games are better on the Xbox 360.skektek

agreed, sometimes (say call of duty 4) they're pretty much the same. But again, if we factor the "more often than not" angle, it's hard to argue X360 multiplats superiority.

Anyway, let's focus on one thought ; (I remember you had difficulties doing that in the past :) ), here is the keyword for the argument : loweset common denominator.

And we're at the point discussing the following thought; which one is easier (more often than not), porting from the lowest common denominator to the highest, or the other way around?

On the topic of porting I would think that it would be easier to port from the highest to the lowest. It's easier to take something away than it is to add. But when speaking of synchronous development on two platforms that are very similar it would be easier to develop for the lowest common denomination and let the other console take the hit on the difference.
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SeanBond

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#69 SeanBond
Member since 2003 • 2136 Posts

Every once in a while someone brings up a statistic about the PS3 or 360's hardware, and spins a reason as to why said hardware creates issues for developers. As somone brought up earlier in this thread, the sad fact of the matter is that NEITHER console was made for running every game at native 1080p. Whether it be the PS3's memory bandwidth issues, the 360's less powerful processor, or now the latter's eDRAM, there are always excuses as to why one system is better suited for HD gaming than the other. I'd say it's clear that they're both fairly equal in terms of graphical power (the best PS3 games are about on par with the 360's best), and that it's equally clear that neither system will be pumping out nothing but native 1080p games from now on.

On the topic of 640p, is there any reason to believe that games like Gears of War (among others) were in this resolution? Because if not, there's no particular reason to worry about it, as the 360 has shown itself to be more than capable of 720p output. In fact, give Bungie another year or two, and they'd easily be able to have Halo 3 running at full 720p with all the same effects they've got going right now; time changes everything. 640p now will be 720p by the end of the gen. Not that you can tell much of a difference...

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Mystery_Writer

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#70 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

On the topic of porting I would think that it would be easier to port from the highest to the lowest. It's easier to take something away than it is to add. But when speaking of synchronous development on two platforms that are very similar it would be easier to develop for the lowest common denomination and let the other console take the hit on the difference.

skektek

this just states, unless, of course, you deny your own logic; PS3 going to end up the loweset common denominator, since, more often than not, porting from X360 to PS3 involves the process of "taken away".

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BobHipJames

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#71 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts

Every once in a while someone brings up a statistic about the PS3 or 360's hardware, and spins a reason as to why said hardware creates issues for developers. As somone brought up earlier in this thread, the sad fact of the matter is that NEITHER console was made for running every game at native 1080p. Whether it be the PS3's memory bandwidth issues, the 360's less powerful processor, or now the latter's eDRAM, there are always excuses as to why one system is better suited for HD gaming than the other. I'd say it's clear that they're both fairly equal in terms of graphical power (the best PS3 games are about on par with the 360's best), and that it's equally clear that neither system will be pumping out nothing but native 1080p games from now on.

On the topic of 640p, is there any reason to believe that games like Gears of War (among others) were in this resolution? Because if not, there's no particular reason to worry about it, as the 360 has shown itself to be more than capable of 720p output. In fact, give Bungie another year or two, and they'd easily be able to have Halo 3 running at full 720p with all the same effects they've got going right now; time changes everything. 640p now will be 720p by the end of the gen. Not that you can tell much of a difference...

SeanBond

As far as your comment about 640p becoming 720p at the end of the gen....I think that's the embodiment of the limitation.

I mean, look at the jump from Resistance from Ratchet, and the jump that Insomniac claims will occur from Ratchet to their next title. Instead of adding in dozens of ships floating around in the background, high qual shaders, thousands of physics-interactive "bolts," particle effects, etc, like can be seen in Ratchet....can you imagine if they had spent all that processing power kicking Resistance up from 720p to 840p?

Sure, the resolution may be the same as its next nearest competitor in this theoretical circumstance....assuming there's a console that displays most of its first party games in 840p. But you're sacrificing image quality for a totally unnecessary, in your view, push towards a higher def resolution.

Of course, this theoretical scenario is mostly nonsense....720p HDTVs cannot display in "840p," it was only brought up for the sake of argument. You can have your extra 80 lines of resolution, but at the cost of development in aspects like units on screen, draw distance, etcetera? I think it'd be better to stick with the 640p, from a developer standpoint, and develope all of these attributes as best you can. Then the only differentiating factor will be 80 lines of resolution.

If this is the case, expect Xbox 360 games to be inferior in one way or another graphically to Playstation 3 games if the eDRAM framebuffer cannot be used on 720p games. If it can be used on 640p games....maybe that's a different story. But you should be arguing in favor of 640p for the sake of the Xbox 360 in this thread, not for 720p as an arbitrary designation and at total liability for the Xbox 360. Accept the premise of this thread, please.

As far as Bungie being able to display Halo 3 in 720p....that's totally speculative. This entire argument is speculative, if not simply hypothetical.

Anyway, the PS3 does not have memory bandwidth issues. I think we should be quite clear on this. Read the IGN tech sheet...Wiki, or Gamespot's. Read anywhere on the net you trust to have legitimate information on the PS3. You will find that the PS3 has 22.4 GB/s bandwidth videomemory, same as the Xbox 360's bandwidth. You will also find that the Playstation 3's main memory, the XDR, has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, faster than anything the Xbox 360's shared memory has to offer. Again, unless you're factoring the eDRAM into the equation, which you refuse to do, bandwidth is CERTAINLY not in the Xbox's favor. You'll have to settle for sub-720p resolution today. Sorry, man.

Moreover, this forum has made it very clear that the Playstation 3 has better looking first party games than the Xbox 360. Uncharted has been voted console graphics king and I think this is totally undeniable in my personal opinion. No upcoming Xbox 360 game usurps Uncharted's position.

Also, it's worth noting that the Playstation 3 currently has 3 total games in 1080p @ 60 FPS: NBA 08, NG:S, and GT5 (upcoming).

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BobHipJames

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#72 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts

[QUOTE="skektek"]

On the topic of porting I would think that it would be easier to port from the highest to the lowest. It's easier to take something away than it is to add. But when speaking of synchronous development on two platforms that are very similar it would be easier to develop for the lowest common denomination and let the other console take the hit on the difference.

Mystery_Writer

this just states, unless, of course, you deny your own logic; PS3 going to end up the loweset common denominator, since, more often than not, porting from X360 to PS3 involves the process of "taken away".

Yes, but in the process, you're denying the processing capability of the Playstation 3's Cell processor. Moreover you're probably not taking advantage of the "turbocache" capability of the Playstation 3's memory. Yes, there are sacrifices that will have to be made in porting from the Xbox 360 to the Playstation 3 in terms of resolution, etc, but these liabilities certainly do not exist in first-party titles, nor do they exist in multiplatform titles that use different versions of the game created seperately.

As the TC said, COD4 was an instance that involved, most probably, a target that was achieved on both platforms independently of one another.

The TC made a distinction that "taking away" feature sets, I.E. making graphical compromises, is the process of paring platforms to fit the least common denominator in porting. The XBox 360 being the lowest common denominator does indeed take away some of the superior aspects of the PS3. This does not make the PS3 the lowest common denominator.

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SeanBond

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#73 SeanBond
Member since 2003 • 2136 Posts
[QUOTE="SeanBond"]

Every once in a while someone brings up a statistic about the PS3 or 360's hardware, and spins a reason as to why said hardware creates issues for developers. As somone brought up earlier in this thread, the sad fact of the matter is that NEITHER console was made for running every game at native 1080p. Whether it be the PS3's memory bandwidth issues, the 360's less powerful processor, or now the latter's eDRAM, there are always excuses as to why one system is better suited for HD gaming than the other. I'd say it's clear that they're both fairly equal in terms of graphical power (the best PS3 games are about on par with the 360's best), and that it's equally clear that neither system will be pumping out nothing but native 1080p games from now on.

On the topic of 640p, is there any reason to believe that games like Gears of War (among others) were in this resolution? Because if not, there's no particular reason to worry about it, as the 360 has shown itself to be more than capable of 720p output. In fact, give Bungie another year or two, and they'd easily be able to have Halo 3 running at full 720p with all the same effects they've got going right now; time changes everything. 640p now will be 720p by the end of the gen. Not that you can tell much of a difference...

BobHipJames

As far as your comment about 640p becoming 720p at the end of the gen....I think that's the embodiment of the limitation.

I mean, look at the jump from Resistance from Ratchet, and the jump that Insomniac claims will occur from Ratchet to their next title. Instead of adding in dozens of ships floating around in the background, high qual shaders, thousands of physics-interactive "bolts," particle effects, etc, like can be seen in Ratchet....can you imagine if they had spent all that processing power kicking Resistance up from 720p to 840p?

Sure, the resolution may be the same as its next nearest competitor in this theoretical circumstance....assuming there's a console that displays most of its first party games in 840p. But you're sacrificing image quality for a totally unnecessary, in your view, push towards a higher def resolution.

Of course, this theoretical scenario is mostly nonsense....720p HDTVs cannot display in "840p," it was only brought up for the sake of argument. You can have your extra 80 lines of resolution, but at the cost of development in aspects like units on screen, draw distance, etcetera? I think it'd be better to stick with the 640p, from a developer standpoint, and develope all of these attributes as best you can. Then the only differentiating factor will be 80 lines of resolution.

If this is the case, expect Xbox 360 games to be inferior in one way or another graphically to Playstation 3 games if the eDRAM framebuffer cannot be used on 720p games. If it can be used on 640p games....maybe that's a different story. But you should be arguing in favor of 640p for the sake of the Xbox 360 in this thread, not for 720p as an arbitrary designation and at total liability for the Xbox 360. Accept the premise of this thread, please.

As far as Bungie being able to display Halo 3 in 720p....that's totally speculative. This entire argument is speculative, if not simply hypothetical.

Anyway, the PS3 does not have memory bandwidth issues. I think we should be quite clear on this. Read the IGN tech sheet...Wiki, or Gamespot's. Read anywhere on the net you trust to have legitimate information on the PS3. You will find that the PS3 has 22.4 GB/s bandwidth videomemory, same as the Xbox 360's bandwidth. You will also find that the Playstation 3's main memory, the XDR, has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, faster than anything the Xbox 360's shared memory has to offer. Again, unless you're factoring the eDRAM into the equation, which you refuse to do, bandwidth is CERTAINLY not in the Xbox's favor. You'll have to settle for sub-720p resolution today. Sorry, man.

Moreover, this forum has made it very clear that the Playstation 3 has better looking first party games than the Xbox 360. Uncharted has been voted console graphics king and I think this is totally undeniable in my personal opinion. No upcoming Xbox 360 game usurps Uncharted's position.

Also, it's worth noting that the Playstation 3 currently has 3 total games in 1080p @ 60 FPS: NBA 08, NG:S, and GT5 (upcoming).

I understand what you're getting at, and I agree with some of your points, but you're making it sound like the PS3 has a clearcut advantage over the 360, and that's just not true. The various stats for both systems make it fairly clear that they both have strengths and weaknesses, and thus the true test will be in the games. So far, the 360 has been the winner in that category, so to claim victory for the system with the majority of inferior multiplats is a little preemptive. My point about Bungie being able to run Halo 3 at a higher resolution had they waited a while longer was simply to give an example of why all the crying about "640p" isn't important. You've noted 2 current PS3 games running at 1080p (one of which, NBA 08, is garbage, so this shouldn't really be a bullet point), but the 360 has a few as well (Virtua Tennis and NBA Street if I remember correctly). But who cares? It's not a coincidence that all the biggest games of this generation have been 720p (Halo 3 obviously notwithstanding), and that goes for the 360 and PS3. My point isn't that 720p is the best we can get, but that for this gen., it's probably the best we should expect. The PS3 has the "power" to run Ninja Gaiden Sigma at 1080p, but it can't handle F.E.A.R. or Madden '08? We can all pick games to support our opinions, but the sweet spot is clearly 720p, and very few of us will be complaining if, at the end of this gen, all the best games are still running at 720, and not 1080p.

And for the record, no matter how many votes Uncharted gets for graphics, it won't get mine. Playing that game on my 42" plasma with a $130 HDMI cable did nothing for me except convince me that people are easily duped into thinking brighter more colorful games are better looking...

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BobHipJames

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#74 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts

NBA Street? I've heard nearly nothing about it and I've not sold a copy of it to date. I sincerely doubt.

Perhaps on Virtua Tennis, although please prove that it's native 1080p 60 FPS.

Agreed on NBA 08, but what do you care exactly? It's running at 1080p, 60 FPS. That's all I require of it.

As far as the $130 HDMI cable.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, man. You're trying to have a debate with me. Maybe you should go to the PS3 forums and ask them what they think of your $130 HDMI cable. Is it a Monster cable? You do realize that Monster doesn't even make the best HDMI cables. This is just totally rich. Please don't try and lecture me.

Moreover....I've studied Gears of War, Bioshock, Halo 3 particularly intently. Halo 3 speaks for itself....Bioshock is great, but let's say not top-tier....Gears of War, I hope, is not being placed on your list higher than Uncharted. I'll allow you to keep your opinion, but if you're going to dog on Uncharted, please have at least as much gall for Gears.

People aren't voting for Uncharted on the basis of colors, as rich and pretty as they often are. People are voting for Uncharted because it has absolutely stunning water, amazing explosions, stunning facial and body animation (real time muscle flexing throughout the whole body, real-time facial wrinkling), fantastic textures, lovely sunsets, and real-time lighting. This does not encompass just....self-shadowing. Self shadowing is a real bullet point....COD4 and NG:S made their name on it. Meanwhile you can walk under a set of trees swaying in the breeze in Uncharted and watch the shadows dynamically dance on your avatar's character model.

I think that Uncharted easily has the best textures of any game....the lighting and real-time shadow engine is amazing, and the animations are above anything yet available on any platform, including the PC.

So much for colors. They're pretty, but this game has plenty of dark and dank environments. Did you play ten minutes of the game, then call it quits, or something?

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Verge_6

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#75 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
Isn't this problem also in the PS3 as well?
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BobHipJames

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#76 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts

Isn't this problem also in the PS3 as well?Verge_6

How so? Do your own research please.

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Verge_6

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#77 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]Isn't this problem also in the PS3 as well?BobHipJames

How so? Do your own research please.

Calm down, kiddo. It was a genuine question.

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skrat_01

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#78 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

The difference between 640p and 720p is jarring.

I can beleive people say they dont even notice it.

HAlo 3 - when I bought it immediateley looked off - and after playing through COD4 on 360 - after people saying you couldent notice it - BS - its obviusly a low native res.

the 'HD' era of console games is a JOKE.

I still cant beleive PC games have been HD since the 90s in comparison.

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#79 haols
Member since 2005 • 2348 Posts
It is funny to look at fanboys of both sides argueing about why the other side's console can't display "proper HD".
Remember before Xbox 360 launched?
"Now we step into the HD era!"

Before PS3 launched?
"Dual 1080P full HD at 120FPS with the most powerful graphics solution to date".

Look howit all turned out, hillarious. At least Nintendo held their promise about displaying SD. . . . Oh wait, the HD era is here . . .
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AIH_PSP

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#80 AIH_PSP
Member since 2005 • 2318 Posts

I can't tell the difference between 640p and 720p unless I get down and look at two relatively large images side by side.

Most people can't tell and, hence, don't care. Shoot, the PS2's graphics were atrocious compared to both the Xbox and the Gamecube, yet it's still heralded as a great system.

mattbbpl
But if the 360 brings down the PS3, then they will look the same and it will not look as XBOX to PS2.