With Blizzard dead and Bioware in turmoil, is Bethesda #1?

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#251 Posted by CaseyWegner (70104 posts) -

think Paradox is the best right now, sure some of their published stuff is meh, but their in-house dev team makes my favourite games. EU IV will kick ass.

lordreaven

and if ever there was a developer who listens to the fans, it's paradox.

#252 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4728 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

I'll put it simply. I don't pick apart games to say whether or not they are bad, I look at the overall experience. TO call Skyrim bad would be to call FFVII, Ocarina, or Super Mario 64 bad. You can pick apart certain elements in the games that are either broken (like Nayru's Love) or annoying, but to call a game bad because a few things annoyed you (and like I said above, in Skyrim's case, COMPLETELY OPTIONAL), is either crazy or stupid.

Maroxad

Yes, it is the overall experience in the end that counts. And more or less any game has flaws.

Thing is, Skyrims issues are abundant and do drag down the quality of the game quite a bit. I couldnt find a single thing to like about Skyrim. Other than laughing at how badly designed the game was. What does Skyrim do well?

It's just, in comparison to the other games (Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion), what did Skyrim do that screws up what they did?

Combat is less limited, potions are easier to craft, magic isn't a major project anymore, skill tree allows for a more easily customized character, you don't get lost 3 feet from a cave or person you are supposed to find, the glitches aren't nearly as rampant as they were in Morrowind and Oblivion, the environment looks nicer, etc, etc, etc.

It's just that Skyrim really only has flaws to people that are willing to break the game themselves. People complain about how you can get high level equipment early on because they decided to raise their smithing to 100 and make the weapons, and other things along those lines. I know MANY exploitable glitches and features in Morrowind that could make my character invincible, and I used them all the time, but it didn't ruin the game for me. If I grew tired of being a God, I played on an account I created to not take advantage of those features, like the cheats, the permanent spells, the stealing glitch, and the high level weapons that are always in a single place. People who normally complain to me about how broken Skyrim is often forget that Morrowind had it many times worse. You could get high level weapons and armor as soon as you started playing if you knew the right glitches (which are not hard to pull off in any way) or where to look (there is a Daedric Dai-Katana in a mine somewhere), and you could activate cheats to give you extremely fast regenerating magic, health, and stamina. It may broken and exploitable, but they are not unavoidable features that will always make the game bad. I can EV train in Pokemon to have an unstoppable killing machine very early on, but I don't do it because it would make the game too easy.

All in all, many of the features people complain about in Skyrim are very much present in the older games, oftentimes worse. Sure, the guild quests aren't as intertwined and the gear to choose from is much more limited, but those only streamline the game to people who play it for the overall experience, not picking and choosing things and playing intricately.

#253 Posted by ryangcnx-2 (1259 posts) -

The Blizzard we grew up with is no more. While Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3 remain high-water marks in gaming, the cash cow that was WoW attracted too many bean counters who systematically ruined Blizzard, culminating in the most disappointing video game of all time: Diablo 3. Don't bother getting your hopes up for Titan, which will have facebook connections and God knows what other casual crap in it. Blizzard is dead.

Bioware seems to be going through internal struggles of its own, and Bioshock Infinite is more of a wait-and-see than it is a definite Day One purchase for anyone who's been paying attention to all the important people bailing out on the project. I'm cautiously optimistic but I'll wait to see what GAMERS, not crappy review sites, have to say about the game before buying it.

Bethesda, on the other hand, just made a new Skyrim DLC that is already getting AAA scores. Fallout 3 and Skyrim are two of the best games of this gen, hands down. If you disagree you're either a 10 year old Sheep or a CoD knuckle-dragger - period. Bethesda is probably working on Fallout 4 as you read this, which should get every red blooded gamer hyped!

So... is Bethesda the best developer left standing? I think so...

trollop_scat

You do realize Bioshock is not made by Bioware right...

I don't get how people confuse this, Bioware is a RPG dev, not a FPS dev.

But to answer, while I loved skyrim, but I love Dragon Age and Mass Effect way more. So Bioware gets my vote.

I also don't care to much for Fallout, the subject is boring but Elder Scrolls, like I said, I loved Skryim and Oblivion.

#254 Posted by NAPK1NS (14870 posts) -
BioWare doesn't make BioShock. Irrational does.
#255 Posted by layton2012 (3653 posts) -
Bioware and Blizzard are still better than the bug infested Bethesda.
#256 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26207 posts) -

Skyrim is not a bad game. Is it the best Elder Scrolls? Hell no, that honor goes to Morrowind, but there were many exploitable glitches and perks in that game as well.

Enemies didn't scale, so you could be picking apart most things by level 20 if you focused on the right attributes.

You could create spells to permanently raise your stats to levels much higher than 100. The magic system was a pain in the *ss to use. I only used lockpicking and levitation spells. I could permanently summon Golden Saints, kill them, then steal their stuff and use or sell it to the Mudcrab Merchant.

There was just as much incentive to explore as the other games. Few unique weapons and armor you could just find, most dungeons had nothing in them, and there was no puzzle element. Skyrim's may be easy as hell, but it's more than we got in Morrowind.

Did you know that there were cheat codes in Morrowind that gave you extremely fast regenerating health, magicka, and stamina? At lower levels, you could take on Dremora and Umbra and win fairly easily.

What do you mean by "balancing"? Let you become a god while no enemies or equipment level with you? Morrowind wasn't exactly a very balanced game.

The reason I have 1200 hours in Skyrim is because I've taken the time to just run around the world and do quests as they appear. I've beaten the game once, then I began to do quests for guilds I overlooked, and do side missions I didn't know existed. It's possible if you play without fast travel.

It's like I said. I don't abuse in-game features. If they annoyed me as much as they do you people, why the hell would I? So I can complain how broken the system is and overlook how broken the other games are? The magic system in Morrowind is BROKEN beyond belief. You can use glitches and certain aspects about the creation system to max out every attribute and make spells permanent. You can use cheats to regenerate health and magicka. You can summon high-level summons to do your work for you because there is no summon limit. Does that stop me from saying Morrowind is one of the best game I've ever played? Of course not, because I can look past the flaws I don't have to exploit and enjoy the game as a whole.

WiiCubeM1

Still is a bad game. You're choosing to ignore the faults as if they don't matter.

How is the magic system hard to use? Aside from the monetary exploits, how is it broken?

The game was exploitable. You make it sound as if Skyrim doesn't have it's own issues.

And those unique weapons were trash compared to top end Daedric weapons.

...and? Cheats, console commands, all the same. There's no point in talking about them.

Balancing. Making sure the content is a fair challenge. Having a bunch of one-shottable NPCs swarm out before the Master NPC that hits for insane damage is not balanced. It's not even good design. Just increasing damage and health pools is also bad design.

So what the hell have you been doing? There is no where near 300 hours of content in Skyrim. It doesn't take 1200 hours to complete everything in Skyrim even on foot.

It's not abusing. Keep hiding behind that though, because it's hilarious. The magic system is broken because you can use cheats? I really do wonder if you can type a phrase even more moronic than that.

#257 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4728 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

Skyrim is not a bad game. Is it the best Elder Scrolls? Hell no, that honor goes to Morrowind, but there were many exploitable glitches and perks in that game as well.

Enemies didn't scale, so you could be picking apart most things by level 20 if you focused on the right attributes.

You could create spells to permanently raise your stats to levels much higher than 100. The magic system was a pain in the *ss to use. I only used lockpicking and levitation spells. I could permanently summon Golden Saints, kill them, then steal their stuff and use or sell it to the Mudcrab Merchant.

There was just as much incentive to explore as the other games. Few unique weapons and armor you could just find, most dungeons had nothing in them, and there was no puzzle element. Skyrim's may be easy as hell, but it's more than we got in Morrowind.

Did you know that there were cheat codes in Morrowind that gave you extremely fast regenerating health, magicka, and stamina? At lower levels, you could take on Dremora and Umbra and win fairly easily.

What do you mean by "balancing"? Let you become a god while no enemies or equipment level with you? Morrowind wasn't exactly a very balanced game.

The reason I have 1200 hours in Skyrim is because I've taken the time to just run around the world and do quests as they appear. I've beaten the game once, then I began to do quests for guilds I overlooked, and do side missions I didn't know existed. It's possible if you play without fast travel.

It's like I said. I don't abuse in-game features. If they annoyed me as much as they do you people, why the hell would I? So I can complain how broken the system is and overlook how broken the other games are? The magic system in Morrowind is BROKEN beyond belief. You can use glitches and certain aspects about the creation system to max out every attribute and make spells permanent. You can use cheats to regenerate health and magicka. You can summon high-level summons to do your work for you because there is no summon limit. Does that stop me from saying Morrowind is one of the best game I've ever played? Of course not, because I can look past the flaws I don't have to exploit and enjoy the game as a whole.

ChubbyGuy40

Still is a bad game. You're choosing to ignore the faults as if they don't matter.

How is the magic system hard to use? Aside from the monetary exploits, how is it broken?

They fail... a lot, and the destruction spells use a lot of magic, which doesn't regenerate.

The game was exploitable. You make it sound as if Skyrim doesn't have it's own issues.

Oh, it does. What I was referring to was how people complain about Skyrim being bad because it's exploitable without referring to Morrowind and it's many exploitable faults and perks.

And those unique weapons were trash compared to top end Daedric weapons.

You don't have to tell me. I've been totining around Daedric weapons as soon as I find them. Point is, they are there.

...and? Cheats, console commands, all the same. There's no point in talking about them.

I see a difference between cheats and console commands, mostly being that cheats are available in all versions of the game, not PC exclusive. But, yes, we don't have to talk about them, It still doesn't change the fact that you can make permanent spells to

Balancing. Making sure the content is a fair challenge. Having a bunch of one-shottable NPCs swarm out before the Master NPC that hits for insane damage is not balanced. It's not even good design. Just increasing damage and health pools is also bad design.

That's Morrowind in a Nutshell.

So what the hell have you been doing? There is no where near 300 hours of content in Skyrim. It doesn't take 1200 hours to complete everything in Skyrim even on foot.

It's the way I play. I explore every nook and cranny, searching every container, trying to find little easter eggs, or making sure I don't forget anything. Did you know that there is a unique sword at the end of the bow on the Emperor's Ship, or ever try to find the Headless Horseman. I take my sweet, old time with the game, I don't fly through it and ignore everything.

It's not abusing. Keep hiding behind that though, because it's hilarious. The magic system is broken because you can use cheats? I really do wonder if you can type a phrase even more moronic than that.

The cheats aren't what break the magic system, it's the failure system and their magicka ratio. Early on, I'd throw one fireball, and that's it, I'm done, and it'd take 20-30 castings before it would actually fire.

#258 Posted by Maroxad (8427 posts) -

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

I'll put it simply. I don't pick apart games to say whether or not they are bad, I look at the overall experience. TO call Skyrim bad would be to call FFVII, Ocarina, or Super Mario 64 bad. You can pick apart certain elements in the games that are either broken (like Nayru's Love) or annoying, but to call a game bad because a few things annoyed you (and like I said above, in Skyrim's case, COMPLETELY OPTIONAL), is either crazy or stupid.

WiiCubeM1

Yes, it is the overall experience in the end that counts. And more or less any game has flaws.

Thing is, Skyrims issues are abundant and do drag down the quality of the game quite a bit. I couldnt find a single thing to like about Skyrim. Other than laughing at how badly designed the game was. What does Skyrim do well?

It's just, in comparison to the other games (Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion), what did Skyrim do that screws up what they did?

Combat is less limited, potions are easier to craft, magic isn't a major project anymore, skill tree allows for a more easily customized character, you don't get lost 3 feet from a cave or person you are supposed to find, the glitches aren't nearly as rampant as they were in Morrowind and Oblivion, the environment looks nicer, etc, etc, etc.

It's just that Skyrim really only has flaws to people that are willing to break the game themselves. People complain about how you can get high level equipment early on because they decided to raise their smithing to 100 and make the weapons, and other things along those lines. I know MANY exploitable glitches and features in Morrowind that could make my character invincible, and I used them all the time, but it didn't ruin the game for me. If I grew tired of being a God, I played on an account I created to not take advantage of those features, like the cheats, the permanent spells, the stealing glitch, and the high level weapons that are always in a single place. People who normally complain to me about how broken Skyrim is often forget that Morrowind had it many times worse. You could get high level weapons and armor as soon as you started playing if you knew the right glitches (which are not hard to pull off in any way) or where to look (there is a Daedric Dai-Katana in a mine somewhere), and you could activate cheats to give you extremely fast regenerating magic, health, and stamina. It may broken and exploitable, but they are not unavoidable features that will always make the game bad. I can EV train in Pokemon to have an unstoppable killing machine very early on, but I don't do it because it would make the game too easy.

All in all, many of the features people complain about in Skyrim are very much present in the older games, oftentimes worse. Sure, the guild quests aren't as intertwined and the gear to choose from is much more limited, but those only streamline the game to people who play it for the overall experience, not picking and choosing things and playing intricately.

Combat is less limited, how so? Last time I checked it was no less limited than the one in Oblivion's save for the fact that you can dual wield. Not to mention, in previous TES games magic was at least viable, in Skyrim, Destruction is abolutely useless. I never had any issues brewing potions in previous TES games, nor did I have issues casting spells, the skill tree does allow for more customization. But the problem is that the perks are soo terribly implemented, and what perks to pick was never a difficult decision. They were terribly balanced and some perks were obvious crap whereas others were "pick me"s.

Also, you do realize there is a huge difference between cheat codes and taking advantage of a poorly implemented feature. Furthermore, in morrowind, a newbie might not be able to find the daedric daikatana until much later. Wheareas in Skyrim, it was pretty ****ing obvious how to get really OP real fast. I still want to know how Skyrim provided a good overall experience. Considering how every damn aspect of the game was terribly implemented.

Are you really saying that Skyrim only has flaws if you break the game? Seriously, did you read the lists me and Planeforger wrote? Hardly any of those have anything to do with smithing.

#259 Posted by Primordialous (1276 posts) -

You seem to be forgetting Starcraft II.

That gives Blizzard a push over Bethesda.

#260 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26207 posts) -

They fail... a lot, and the destruction spells use a lot of magic, which doesn't regenerate.

Oh, it does. What I was referring to was how people complain about Skyrim being bad because it's exploitable without referring to Morrowind and it's many exploitable faults and perks.

You don't have to tell me. I've been totining around Daedric weapons as soon as I find them. Point is, they are there.

I see a difference between cheats and console commands, mostly being that cheats are available in all versions of the game, not PC exclusive. But, yes, we don't have to talk about them, It still doesn't change the fact that you can make permanent spells to

That's Morrowind in a Nutshell.

It's the way I play. I explore every nook and cranny, searching every container, trying to find little easter eggs, or making sure I don't forget anything. Did you know that there is a unique sword at the end of the bow on the Emperor's Ship, or ever try to find the Headless Horseman. I take my sweet, old time with the game, I don't fly through it and ignore everything.

The cheats aren't what break the magic system, it's the failure system and their magicka ratio. Early on, I'd throw one fireball, and that's it, I'm done, and it'd take 20-30 castings before it would actually fire.

WiiCubeM1

And? Are there no skills, armor, potions, ect that can decrease the chance of failing?

Just because Morrowind has exploits does not excuse Skyrim's faults. Not everyone, including me, has had the chance to play Morrowind yet.

Point is that exploring offers no reward. Just being there isn't good enough.

Doesn't excuse Skyrim for doing it.

That still doesn't take 1/4th of the time you've spent in Skyrim. Even playing what could be called a rogue/thief I did that, but after awhile you come to the realization that looking in every container is pointless because there's nothing in there besides gold and vendor trash with the occasional potion.

Like I said, I haven't played Morrowind yet so can't comment on its combat or how it works. We're talking about Skyrim here though. Morrowind's faults doesn't excuse Skyrim's.

#261 Posted by Maroxad (8427 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

They fail... a lot, and the destruction spells use a lot of magic, which doesn't regenerate.

Oh, it does. What I was referring to was how people complain about Skyrim being bad because it's exploitable without referring to Morrowind and it's many exploitable faults and perks.

You don't have to tell me. I've been totining around Daedric weapons as soon as I find them. Point is, they are there.

I see a difference between cheats and console commands, mostly being that cheats are available in all versions of the game, not PC exclusive. But, yes, we don't have to talk about them, It still doesn't change the fact that you can make permanent spells to

That's Morrowind in a Nutshell.

It's the way I play. I explore every nook and cranny, searching every container, trying to find little easter eggs, or making sure I don't forget anything. Did you know that there is a unique sword at the end of the bow on the Emperor's Ship, or ever try to find the Headless Horseman. I take my sweet, old time with the game, I don't fly through it and ignore everything.

The cheats aren't what break the magic system, it's the failure system and their magicka ratio. Early on, I'd throw one fireball, and that's it, I'm done, and it'd take 20-30 castings before it would actually fire.

ChubbyGuy40

And? Are there no skills, armor, potions, ect that can decrease the chance of failing?

There are, as you get good in the magic skills you barely fail at all when casting spells. And resting even for an hour restores most of your magicka anyway.

Here are the formulas

Chance of success is (Spell's skill * 2 + Willpower / 5 + Luck / 10 - Spell cost - Sound magnitude) * (Current fatigue + Maximum Fatigue * 1.5) / Maximum fatigue * 2

Spell Damage is Damage - Damage * ( Resistance - Weakness )/100.

Spell Cost (the amount of magicka a spell takes to cast) for custom spells is ( [ Min Magnitude + Max Magnitude ] * [ Duration + 1 ] + Area ) * Base Cost / 40, rounded down. Non-custom spells may have a different cost than their custom equivalent.

In Skyrim, the only thing spell skills do is reduce magicka cost. So yeah, a mage with 20 destruction skill will deal as much damage with a fireball as a mage with 100 destruction skill. Of course, this wont matter in the end anyways, since with enchanted platemail, your destruction spells will cost no magicka anyway.

#262 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4728 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

They fail... a lot, and the destruction spells use a lot of magic, which doesn't regenerate.

Oh, it does. What I was referring to was how people complain about Skyrim being bad because it's exploitable without referring to Morrowind and it's many exploitable faults and perks.

You don't have to tell me. I've been totining around Daedric weapons as soon as I find them. Point is, they are there.

I see a difference between cheats and console commands, mostly being that cheats are available in all versions of the game, not PC exclusive. But, yes, we don't have to talk about them, It still doesn't change the fact that you can make permanent spells to

That's Morrowind in a Nutshell.

It's the way I play. I explore every nook and cranny, searching every container, trying to find little easter eggs, or making sure I don't forget anything. Did you know that there is a unique sword at the end of the bow on the Emperor's Ship, or ever try to find the Headless Horseman. I take my sweet, old time with the game, I don't fly through it and ignore everything.

The cheats aren't what break the magic system, it's the failure system and their magicka ratio. Early on, I'd throw one fireball, and that's it, I'm done, and it'd take 20-30 castings before it would actually fire.

ChubbyGuy40

And? Are there no skills, armor, potions, ect that can decrease the chance of failing?

Just because Morrowind has exploits does not excuse Skyrim's faults. Not everyone, including me, has had the chance to play Morrowind yet.

Point is that exploring offers no reward. Just being there isn't good enough.

Doesn't excuse Skyrim for doing it.

That still doesn't take 1/4th of the time you've spent in Skyrim. Even playing what could be called a rogue/thief I did that, but after awhile you come to the realization that looking in every container is pointless because there's nothing in there besides gold and vendor trash with the occasional potion.

Like I said, I haven't played Morrowind yet so can't comment on its combat or how it works. We're talking about Skyrim here though. Morrowind's faults doesn't excuse Skyrim's.

... You haven't played Morrowind yet? That actually explains a little bit.

First off, no there are no spells or enchantments or potions that decrease the rate of failing. That can only be solved by leveling up.

Morrowind's combat system is based on a hit/miss system. For example, if you have a 5 in the long blade skill, you have a 20% chance of hitting the enemy each swing, so you could lob hundreds of attacks at him, and still miss every single one. I've been killed by many a mudcrab because of it. Same goes for the Magic System, except the percentage isn't a hit/miss, it's a work/fail system, where the spell won't work most of the time if your skill in that particular school is really low.

The faults everyone complains about are rampant THROUGHOUT the series, but people always focus on one game like it's the first one in the series to have them. The glitches, the exploration, the exploitable perks of each game... the list goes on. My argument has never been to prove Skyrim is exempt from its faults or that it's the best game in the series (that'd be Morrowind), but that every time I hear a complaint, I can find its equivalent in the older games.

If you think Skyrim is boring, Morrowind looks the same everywhere and Oblivion is just one big forest (although Oblivion itself is pretty cool).

You hate the leveling system in Skyrim, in Morrowind every weapon was it's own stat, and you would only level up if you worked on a stat that was one of your major attributes.

You hate the combat in Skyrim? At least you can hit something every time you swing the damn sword.

You hate the exploitable Smithing system? In Morrowind, I can just travel to the city that has the person that sells the Golden Saint spell, create a custom spell that makes them a permanent summon, kill them, then keep their ebony katana and dragon tower shield. Or maybe I'll just travel to an egg mine and claim that Daedric Dai-Katana that's lying next to that dead guy the whole game.

You think the writing is bad? Just look at the guards and all the conversations about mudcrabs in Oblivion. At least you actually have voices in Oblivion and Skyrim. You only have text boxes in Morrowind unless you're talking to a Daedra.

I know Skyrim is a flawed game, but what in comparison to other games makes it so bad?

#263 Posted by arto1223 (4404 posts) -

Blizzard is not nor is it anywhere near death. Are you one of the "PC gaming is dead/dying" persons? Diablo III is a fantastic game.

#264 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26207 posts) -

I know Skyrim is a flawed game, but what in comparison to other games makes it so bad?

WiiCubeM1

We aren't talking about in comparison to Elder Scrolls games. It's a bad game in general for reasons already stated.

  • No depth (The perk system was terribly done, combat is also extremely straight forward, equipment system is as shallow as it gets)
  • No Challenge (Played on Master, didnt have any problems at all)
  • No variety (Do I even need to bring up how repetitive Skyrim's encounters, dungeons and overworld is?)
  • No interesting content (Overworld is lifeless and empty, most quests suck)
  • Terrible story
  • Horribad combat
  • Terrible dragons, that are a bore to fight and doesnt do the creature justice (seriously, making these unlimited was a downright terribe idea, what were they thinking?)
  • Bad writing
  • Weaksauce open world elements
  • Smithing/alchemy/enchanting which completely breaks the game
  • A level up system which is quite possiby the worst I have ever seen
  • Terribly done spell system
  • No spell crafting
  • Useless tacked on features that exist for their own sake (read: everything)
  • Smithing which gives you top tier items by the time level 20, killing any need to explore, who needs legendary weapons when you can craft better.
  • Level scaling
  • HP bloating which becomes downright obnoxious if you dont abuse smithing, alchemy and enchanting
  • Rock paper scissors combat, as a guy with a 2h, hope you dont fight frost enemies
  • Bugs
  • Hilariously broken and completely unrealistic perks
  • Horrible guilds
  • Terrible main quest
  • You level up too **** fast (I once got 4 levels without even moving my character)

Maroxad

#265 Posted by lordreaven (7236 posts) -

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

think Paradox is the best right now, sure some of their published stuff is meh, but their in-house dev team makes my favourite games. EU IV will kick ass.

CaseyWegner

and if ever there was a developer who listens to the fans, it's paradox.

They added in my idea to allow Sardinia-Piedmont to be form able in EU3, they also added in the "Spread the Revolution" Casus Beli for Communist nations in Victoria 2 that I suggested along time ago (though I'm sure people suggested it before me). Hell, their Sunset Invasion DLC for CK 2 was an idea a fan brought up almost 2 years ago when discussing their new DLC policy.
#266 Posted by lordreaven (7236 posts) -

You seem to be forgetting Starcraft II.

That gives Blizzard a push over Bethesda.

Primordialous
Blizzard RTS's are snore fests. Never understood why people liked them.
#267 Posted by Ravenshout (1210 posts) -

[QUOTE="Primordialous"]

You seem to be forgetting Starcraft II.

That gives Blizzard a push over Bethesda.

lordreaven

Blizzard RTS's are snore fests. Never understood why people liked them.

Because they are well-balanced and incredibly polished.

#268 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

They fail... a lot, and the destruction spells use a lot of magic, which doesn't regenerate.

Oh, it does. What I was referring to was how people complain about Skyrim being bad because it's exploitable without referring to Morrowind and it's many exploitable faults and perks.

You don't have to tell me. I've been totining around Daedric weapons as soon as I find them. Point is, they are there.

I see a difference between cheats and console commands, mostly being that cheats are available in all versions of the game, not PC exclusive. But, yes, we don't have to talk about them, It still doesn't change the fact that you can make permanent spells to

That's Morrowind in a Nutshell.

It's the way I play. I explore every nook and cranny, searching every container, trying to find little easter eggs, or making sure I don't forget anything. Did you know that there is a unique sword at the end of the bow on the Emperor's Ship, or ever try to find the Headless Horseman. I take my sweet, old time with the game, I don't fly through it and ignore everything.

The cheats aren't what break the magic system, it's the failure system and their magicka ratio. Early on, I'd throw one fireball, and that's it, I'm done, and it'd take 20-30 castings before it would actually fire.

WiiCubeM1

And? Are there no skills, armor, potions, ect that can decrease the chance of failing?

Just because Morrowind has exploits does not excuse Skyrim's faults. Not everyone, including me, has had the chance to play Morrowind yet.

Point is that exploring offers no reward. Just being there isn't good enough.

Doesn't excuse Skyrim for doing it.

That still doesn't take 1/4th of the time you've spent in Skyrim. Even playing what could be called a rogue/thief I did that, but after awhile you come to the realization that looking in every container is pointless because there's nothing in there besides gold and vendor trash with the occasional potion.

Like I said, I haven't played Morrowind yet so can't comment on its combat or how it works. We're talking about Skyrim here though. Morrowind's faults doesn't excuse Skyrim's.

... You haven't played Morrowind yet? That actually explains a little bit.

First off, no there are no spells or enchantments or potions that decrease the rate of failing. That can only be solved by leveling up.

Enchantments that increase your destruction or magic attributes would lower the rate of failing.

Morrowind's combat system is based on a hit/miss system. For example, if you have a 5 in the long blade skill, you have a 20% chance of hitting the enemy each swing, so you could lob hundreds of attacks at him, and still miss every single one. I've been killed by many a mudcrab because of it. Same goes for the Magic System, except the percentage isn't a hit/miss, it's a work/fail system, where the spell won't work most of the time if your skill in that particular school is really low.

Yeah it's stat based combat, which is much better than Skyrim. In Skyrim it's just click really fast, in Morrowind whether or not you kill somebody is based on your character build along with the items you choose to wield. People don't give Morrowind's combat enough credit, sure, it's clunky, but what do you expect from a first person game in 2002?

The faults everyone complains about are rampant THROUGHOUT the series, but people always focus on one game like it's the first one in the series to have them. The glitches, the exploration, the exploitable perks of each game... the list goes on. My argument has never been to prove Skyrim is exempt from its faults or that it's the best game in the series (that'd be Morrowind), but that every time I hear a complaint, I can find its equivalent in the older games.

If you think Skyrim is boring, Morrowind looks the same everywhere and Oblivion is just one big forest (although Oblivion itself is pretty cool).

Not if you use the total conversion mod for Morrowind, the game doesn't even look the same.

You hate the leveling system in Skyrim, in Morrowind every weapon was it's own stat, and you would only level up if you worked on a stat that was one of your major attributes.

That's better, so you specialise in one area, and if you want to get better at something else you have to train at it. You're basically saying you're in favor of dumbing down the gameplay and RPG elements.

You hate the combat in Skyrim? At least you can hit something every time you swing the damn sword.

Once again, stat based combat. Plus, do you really think in eeal combat two people would just stand there hacking at each other until somebody dies? No, they would try and dodge. Sure, there are no dodging animations, that was too dificult, but that is what it simulates, because as your agility increasing, your chance to dodge attacks does too, and so does your chance to hit.

You hate the exploitable Smithing system? In Morrowind, I can just travel to the city that has the person that sells the Golden Saint spell, create a custom spell that makes them a permanent summon, kill them, then keep their ebony katana and dragon tower shield. Or maybe I'll just travel to an egg mine and claim that Daedric Dai-Katana that's lying next to that dead guy the whole game.

Most people wouldn't know that immediately, and if you stumble across some really good stuff early on then fine, that's possible isn't it? In Skyrim and Oblivion they scale all the loot, so most of the good stuff doesn't even EXIST until you reach a high level.

You think the writing is bad? Just look at the guards and all the conversations about mudcrabs in Oblivion. At least you actually have voices in Oblivion and Skyrim. You only have text boxes in Morrowind unless you're talking to a Daedra.

Text boxes were better, that's why they didn't have to use auto compass, they could actually give you directions. You really want somebody telling you every nook and crany of detail through voice? It would take forever. The world was far richer in Morrowind because people told you things in far more detail, when it's voice they have to shorten the conversation to be really tiny. In real life you would talk to people for a long time discussing things, you wouldn't just talk for like 15 seconds.

I know Skyrim is a flawed game, but what in comparison to other games makes it so bad?

#269 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4728 posts) -

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

And? Are there no skills, armor, potions, ect that can decrease the chance of failing?

Just because Morrowind has exploits does not excuse Skyrim's faults. Not everyone, including me, has had the chance to play Morrowind yet.

Point is that exploring offers no reward. Just being there isn't good enough.

Doesn't excuse Skyrim for doing it.

That still doesn't take 1/4th of the time you've spent in Skyrim. Even playing what could be called a rogue/thief I did that, but after awhile you come to the realization that looking in every container is pointless because there's nothing in there besides gold and vendor trash with the occasional potion.

Like I said, I haven't played Morrowind yet so can't comment on its combat or how it works. We're talking about Skyrim here though. Morrowind's faults doesn't excuse Skyrim's.

gamebreakerz__

... You haven't played Morrowind yet? That actually explains a little bit.

First off, no there are no spells or enchantments or potions that decrease the rate of failing. That can only be solved by leveling up.

Enchantments that increase your destruction or magic attributes would lower the rate of failing.

Morrowind's combat system is based on a hit/miss system. For example, if you have a 5 in the long blade skill, you have a 20% chance of hitting the enemy each swing, so you could lob hundreds of attacks at him, and still miss every single one. I've been killed by many a mudcrab because of it. Same goes for the Magic System, except the percentage isn't a hit/miss, it's a work/fail system, where the spell won't work most of the time if your skill in that particular school is really low.

Yeah it's stat based combat, which is much better than Skyrim. In Skyrim it's just click really fast, in Morrowind whether or not you kill somebody is based on your character build along with the items you choose to wield. People don't give Morrowind's combat enough credit, sure, it's clunky, but what do you expect from a first person game in 2002?

The faults everyone complains about are rampant THROUGHOUT the series, but people always focus on one game like it's the first one in the series to have them. The glitches, the exploration, the exploitable perks of each game... the list goes on. My argument has never been to prove Skyrim is exempt from its faults or that it's the best game in the series (that'd be Morrowind), but that every time I hear a complaint, I can find its equivalent in the older games.

If you think Skyrim is boring, Morrowind looks the same everywhere and Oblivion is just one big forest (although Oblivion itself is pretty cool).

Not if you use the total conversion mod for Morrowind, the game doesn't even look the same.

You hate the leveling system in Skyrim, in Morrowind every weapon was it's own stat, and you would only level up if you worked on a stat that was one of your major attributes.

That's better, so you specialise in one area, and if you want to get better at something else you have to train at it. You're basically saying you're in favor of dumbing down the gameplay and RPG elements.

You hate the combat in Skyrim? At least you can hit something every time you swing the damn sword.

Once again, stat based combat. Plus, do you really think in eeal combat two people would just stand there hacking at each other until somebody dies? No, they would try and dodge. Sure, there are no dodging animations, that was too dificult, but that is what it simulates, because as your agility increasing, your chance to dodge attacks does too, and so does your chance to hit.

You hate the exploitable Smithing system? In Morrowind, I can just travel to the city that has the person that sells the Golden Saint spell, create a custom spell that makes them a permanent summon, kill them, then keep their ebony katana and dragon tower shield. Or maybe I'll just travel to an egg mine and claim that Daedric Dai-Katana that's lying next to that dead guy the whole game.

Most people wouldn't know that immediately, and if you stumble across some really good stuff early on then fine, that's possible isn't it? In Skyrim and Oblivion they scale all the loot, so most of the good stuff doesn't even EXIST until you reach a high level.

You think the writing is bad? Just look at the guards and all the conversations about mudcrabs in Oblivion. At least you actually have voices in Oblivion and Skyrim. You only have text boxes in Morrowind unless you're talking to a Daedra.

Text boxes were better, that's why they didn't have to use auto compass, they could actually give you directions. You really want somebody telling you every nook and crany of detail through voice? It would take forever. The world was far richer in Morrowind because people told you things in far more detail, when it's voice they have to shorten the conversation to be really tiny. In real life you would talk to people for a long time discussing things, you wouldn't just talk for like 15 seconds.

I know Skyrim is a flawed game, but what in comparison to other games makes it so bad?

At this point, man, it's just a matter of opinion. I realize many people hate Skyrim for justified and unjustified reasons and there is nothing I, or anyone else, can do to change it.

I love Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. They both have MAJOR issues, and the only thing I was trying to get across was that the same problems are rampant throughout all the games. If these arguments have shown me anything, it's that people will defend things that annoy others, like What I do with Skyrim and it's streamlined gameplay that dumbs down the intricacey, and what you and a few others do with Morrowind and it's combat and Magic system. I still hate them with a passion, because when I try to hit someone with a sword, it should freaking hit them in a video game, but I get that it makes it more realistic, and that's what some people love about it (although there is NOTHING that can make the failure rate of magic realistic. If magic was real and I knew how to cast a spell, it should cast every time until I run out of magicka).

In the long run, what I really hate is people call Skyrim a terrible game. You want to play a truly terrible game, go play Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis, or Drake and the 99 Dragons, THOSE are bad games. Skyrim is still a fantastic game, even if some things about it annoy some people to no end. I can overlook everything I hate about Morrowind and still hold it above Skyrim as the better game. All I'm saying is people nowadays really don't know what a bad game is anymore... at least here on System Wars.

#270 Posted by Maroxad (8427 posts) -

[QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"]

[QUOTE="WiiCubeM1"]

... You haven't played Morrowind yet? That actually explains a little bit.

First off, no there are no spells or enchantments or potions that decrease the rate of failing. That can only be solved by leveling up.

Enchantments that increase your destruction or magic attributes would lower the rate of failing.

Morrowind's combat system is based on a hit/miss system. For example, if you have a 5 in the long blade skill, you have a 20% chance of hitting the enemy each swing, so you could lob hundreds of attacks at him, and still miss every single one. I've been killed by many a mudcrab because of it. Same goes for the Magic System, except the percentage isn't a hit/miss, it's a work/fail system, where the spell won't work most of the time if your skill in that particular school is really low.

Yeah it's stat based combat, which is much better than Skyrim. In Skyrim it's just click really fast, in Morrowind whether or not you kill somebody is based on your character build along with the items you choose to wield. People don't give Morrowind's combat enough credit, sure, it's clunky, but what do you expect from a first person game in 2002?

The faults everyone complains about are rampant THROUGHOUT the series, but people always focus on one game like it's the first one in the series to have them. The glitches, the exploration, the exploitable perks of each game... the list goes on. My argument has never been to prove Skyrim is exempt from its faults or that it's the best game in the series (that'd be Morrowind), but that every time I hear a complaint, I can find its equivalent in the older games.

If you think Skyrim is boring, Morrowind looks the same everywhere and Oblivion is just one big forest (although Oblivion itself is pretty cool).

Not if you use the total conversion mod for Morrowind, the game doesn't even look the same.

You hate the leveling system in Skyrim, in Morrowind every weapon was it's own stat, and you would only level up if you worked on a stat that was one of your major attributes.

That's better, so you specialise in one area, and if you want to get better at something else you have to train at it. You're basically saying you're in favor of dumbing down the gameplay and RPG elements.

You hate the combat in Skyrim? At least you can hit something every time you swing the damn sword.

Once again, stat based combat. Plus, do you really think in eeal combat two people would just stand there hacking at each other until somebody dies? No, they would try and dodge. Sure, there are no dodging animations, that was too dificult, but that is what it simulates, because as your agility increasing, your chance to dodge attacks does too, and so does your chance to hit.

You hate the exploitable Smithing system? In Morrowind, I can just travel to the city that has the person that sells the Golden Saint spell, create a custom spell that makes them a permanent summon, kill them, then keep their ebony katana and dragon tower shield. Or maybe I'll just travel to an egg mine and claim that Daedric Dai-Katana that's lying next to that dead guy the whole game.

Most people wouldn't know that immediately, and if you stumble across some really good stuff early on then fine, that's possible isn't it? In Skyrim and Oblivion they scale all the loot, so most of the good stuff doesn't even EXIST until you reach a high level.

You think the writing is bad? Just look at the guards and all the conversations about mudcrabs in Oblivion. At least you actually have voices in Oblivion and Skyrim. You only have text boxes in Morrowind unless you're talking to a Daedra.

Text boxes were better, that's why they didn't have to use auto compass, they could actually give you directions. You really want somebody telling you every nook and crany of detail through voice? It would take forever. The world was far richer in Morrowind because people told you things in far more detail, when it's voice they have to shorten the conversation to be really tiny. In real life you would talk to people for a long time discussing things, you wouldn't just talk for like 15 seconds.

I know Skyrim is a flawed game, but what in comparison to other games makes it so bad?

WiiCubeM1

At this point, man, it's just a matter of opinion. I realize many people hate Skyrim for justified and unjustified reasons and there is nothing I, or anyone else, can do to change it.

I love Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. They both have MAJOR issues, and the only thing I was trying to get across was that the same problems are rampant throughout all the games. If these arguments have shown me anything, it's that people will defend things that annoy others, like What I do with Skyrim and it's streamlined gameplay that dumbs down the intricacey, and what you and a few others do with Morrowind and it's combat and Magic system. I still hate them with a passion, because when I try to hit someone with a sword, it should freaking hit them in a video game, but I get that it makes it more realistic, and that's what some people love about it (although there is NOTHING that can make the failure rate of magic realistic. If magic was real and I knew how to cast a spell, it should cast every time until I run out of magicka).

In the long run, what I really hate is people call Skyrim a terrible game. You want to play a truly terrible game, go play Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis, or Drake and the 99 Dragons, THOSE are bad games. Skyrim is still a fantastic game, even if some things about it annoy some people to no end. I can overlook everything I hate about Morrowind and still hold it above Skyrim as the better game. All I'm saying is people nowadays really don't know what a bad game is anymore... at least here on System Wars.

Just because there are worse games out there doesnt mean that skyrim isnt terrible.

Even then, we all have different standards.