Will Nintendo ever be relevant to the hardcore gamer ever again?

It seems like with the whole mobile push that Nintendo is going after the casuals again, which is smart. In a market where you have Sony, Xbox, and PC, it would be pretty redundant to go after this crowd. It's also a bit risky. I'm hoping Nintendo really surprises us with the NX, because the gaming industry needs it. But let's hope us core gamers get something great out of it too. Right, SW?

nintendo was never a hardcore company.

all their games were for young people. its just that since nintendo was the biggest gaming company. all the 3rd parties put their games on there and most 3rd parties had a lot of mature games with blood and gore.

after 3rd parties left nintendo had no one to fill that need.

they tried to appeal to the hardcore gameswise with the gamecube but the hardware was geared towards the younger gamer. so it failed.

Define hardcore gamers

That's the only crowd Nintendo appeals to, older hardcore veteran gamers, it appeals to their nostalgia. I've generally seen them as mainly providing a supplemental console next to more dominent competition. My main concern is whether their fanbase is still there, or do they feel burned by Nintendo pulling Wii U support so early and not following up with even any NX info, delaying next LoZ which now looks meh. Even on 3DS side of things they've been slacking on big IPs like LoZ and Metroid. Rumors they might just recycle Wii U library on NX. I can't see them succeeding without their loyal base given that they took advantage of that loyalty.

The TC, obviously.

How are Sony and Microsoft not going after casuals? Their biggest games appeal to the lowest common denominator: people who just want a weekend of mindless gaming.

It's very rare any of them publish something that doesn't target casual players.

If by hardcore you mean enthusiasts.... thats exactly who the Wii U mainly sold to lol

They did?

A good bunch of my favorite games this gen are on Wii U. It has plenty of appeal to people that enjoy fun games.

they made big push to 3rd party that gen and they still believed in power.

uh, You said gamewise.... and then you said the hardware was casual focused.

^ this..is it one who gets a hard on when playing games? lol :P

i meant the design mostly. a purple lunch box. i said young audience focused not casual.

The problem with defining "hardcore" gamer is that there are so many definitions given by gamers. Which one is the "correct" one?

I'd argue that the hardcore gamer (at least a subset of hardcore gamers) is the only audience that is really keeping Nintendo alive in the console market these days. While Nintendo may have the reputation of being for casual gamers and for kids, I don't think Nintendo sells very well to those audiences anymore in the console market. Nintendo briefly had casual gamers with the Wii, but they lost that market when mobile gaming became popular and kids these days don't care about Nintendo since Nintendo is not considered cool. I think most of the people who bought the Wii U and still love Nintendo are hardcore gamers that grew up with Nintendo from way back in the NES and SNES days and therefore Nintendo still holds a very special place in their heart.

I wouldn't call myself hardcore if I don't have a Nintendo console (as a secondary device at least) I need smash and Bayonetta.

Nintendo's console sales in the last 10 years. 〽️ Okay, I think they can be relevant again.

Haha. People who think labelling themselves as hardcore really means anything. If it allows you sleep better knowing that you are part of some secret elite master race who can look down upon everyone as you are hardcore then good for you.

While *REAL* gamers just loving playing everything and anything and don't care about being labeled casual or hardcore.

So loads are looking to define themselves hardcore probably means they haves issues and worry what people think of them too much.

OVERALL: I will label people "idiots" who think thyre hardcore.

No... no they won't. In fact, they never did either.

"But dat SNES third party support..."

Yeah... but SEGA was around and the PlayStation came a gen later.

"But the N64..."

Whom, judging by posts on the internet, ONE developer mainly hogs the appeal of?

"But the GC..."

Ugh, I'm going to leave this here on post-2006 GameCube reception.

Pokemon is as hardcore a game you can get.

Sony and Microsoft don't make hardcore games anymore.

Funny that a hardcore game like pokemon will outsell all the casual trash that they've created like the odor 1886 and quantum flop

Lots of people in obvious denial but let's be realistic. They abandoned the "gamer" with the wii which relied on casual focused control schemes (waggle) and party games with minimal service for most of the gamers. They boasted about the wii sales in old people's homes and thought it would last forever. Of course, crazes never do.

This, paired with their loss of third party (entirely their fault and the fact that their fans don't buy them) mean a lot of gamers know Nintendo is not the place to go to for them and it will be very hard for Nintendo to turn that around. They don't show much in the way of wanting to change that either. Let's be honest, they've actually retreated. They got a lot of cash from the wii thanks to its casual craze audience. They could have thrown some of this around to get the likes of GTA and Elder Scrolls on their console even as a port. They seem happy to be more and more niche. Problem is, that audience is shrinking gen on gen. I can only see the NX being a success as a handheld which is where Nintendo are still kings.

There was a time were i was proud to be called a "hardcore gamer" now i know how much of a silly term is and how silly is for companies to "appeal" to that narcisist, whinny and ungrateful market. So Nintendo (as well as Sony and MS) is doing a good work triying to get away from that.

@DocSanchez:

How is 60 million 3ds sold a retreat? Nintendo doubled down on 3DS it had a slow start they dropped the price gave early adopters free games that nobody else could buy and treats there day one buyers like there seated in first class did you notice that?

The XB1 dropped in price from like 500 to like 329 in like a year and microsoft gave nothing to day one xbox one owners they didn't put out kinect games or free games to those buyers they were stuck with buying.

Were almost 3 years into this generation and ps4/xb1 are having worse yoy sales from last year while ps3/x360 were gaining momentum at this time frame and increasing in sales.

If wiiU+3ds are niche than the ps4+vita and xbone 10 are super NICHE gaming device and not gaining momentum IMO.

Nintendo isn't crazy YOU'RE CRAZY.

What is a hardcore gamer?

@xantufrog: i have learned that a "hardcore gamer" are those entitled kids who think that the companies owns them something for playing video games.

Yep... oh dear god is this so true.

Can you blame Nintendo for trumpeting the success of the Wii considering it was the highest selling home console in its history? Even with being loud about sales, the company needed to be realistic about the future as evidenced with the poor Wii reception half way through its lifespan.

Give Nintendo the GTA series. It won't do much since that franchise (and franchises of that caliber) are well established and received on the competition. With third party it is too late to right the ship.

I do agree with you TC and really hope that Nintendo gets their shit together with the NX. Sure, once in a while they pull off a "hardcore" game with little to no gimmicks (ie. Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Bayonetta 2) but I hate that they ruined so many of their games with casual gimmicks or just not listening to fans, like Star Fox Zero, Paper Mario Color Splash, Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival, Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash, and Metroid Prime: Federation Force.

What Nintendo really needs with the NX is a new F-Zero, Metroid, a real Mario RPG and not crap like Color Splash, a better Star Fox, some more new IPs, and third parties to take them seriously again...I would be a day one customer if most of those things came true.

@beardmad: Sony publishes plenty of games that don't target casuals. Mostly out of Japan Studio.

Hardcore gamer? A gamer is a gamer. Nintendo appeals to gamers. /thread

@SolidGame_basic: No, because Nintendo themselves have no interest catering to that demographic.

@ProtossRushX: You seem to be taking this awfully personally.

Nintendo never tried to be the ultimate consol like so many people think. They only put out a system to play their own games, they did that with the NES and the same with the SNES, it just happened that SEGA wasn't as big as them so game developper put their game on the SNES. Simple as that.

When the N64 and PSOne came out many 3rd dropped the ball on Nintendo because of the cartridge format. There wasn't many multiplat game at that time either.

During the GC/PS2/Xbox time, Sony had a very winning combination and the controler put a new standart. Nintendo did try hard to appeal to the people who had left them during the N64 time but it was already too late. Sony was the place for unique games, blood and gore and more mature subject. Xbox pretty much showed they are good at racing and FPS and of course a solid internet system.

Wii, PS3 and X360 was the downfall. Nintendo tried something completely different so much that Sony tried it two times with the Move and with other crappy thing like the Book. Microsoft tried with the Kinect. Like it or not, Nintendo are the king when it comes to try new ways of playing game ... Sony, Microsoft and PC gaming is pretty much stuck, they never try to shake gaming with a different way to interact, it is the same Dualshock and the same Xbox controler gen after gen.

.....and we have cars and planes and boats and trains that've been operating on the same fundamentals for 100+ years with various improvements. The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented every 4 years just for the sake of being able to claim innovation and differentiation. I don't mind innovation (I own and love Vive VR), but Nintendo appears insistent on change not so much because it'll help their software, but because they just need to be different to compensate for how they are unable or don't have the guts to compete.

Traditional controllers are a perfectly viable means to the medium, and Nintendo is actively harming their strongest asset (software) because the consistently ****-up what doesn't need to be tampered with.

You have a strong point there.

Its either appeal to casuals and young people OR/AND to those that for nostalgia reasons alone cant do without mario/kart/smash/zelda.

Imho , if it wasnt for those hardcore Nintendo fans this generation , Wii U would have a pretty decent chance to be subpar of 10 million units worldwide as we speak.

On the other hand , everyone has those hardcore fans that pushing sales with one way or another but in Nintendos case .. this hardcore base feels like shrinking as time passes because they are not making new ones ( i did an in-depth analysis on this issue a year ago ).

The biggest example of this is when you see Nintendo hardcore fans to gaming on other platforms alone because Nintendo isnt releasing anything . Its literally like N saying "**** off" to all those of their HC fans even if HC fans dont mind just because they are hc fans and defending this stance ... but with this in mind .. its really hard to make NEW HC fans let alone you shrinking the one you already got.

I hope things shape up with NX , imho , its literally Nintendos last chance even if i think they dont mind HC fans that much with NX rather the casuals.

Who exactly are these "hardcore gamers"?

What a load egoistic shit.

You mean "will Nintendo stop sucking more and more at making cool games"? I kind of doubt that, sadly. They keep ignoring what their fans wants. They just killed Paper Mario, something that's ultra dear to fans. They refuse to create a Metroid game. Even fucking Super Mario started to suck somewhat. Who asked for a sequel to a handheld game for their console? All signs point to them making games that goes much faster to develop, and therefor are much worse. They also want the mobile crowd - the crowd I dislike the most.

I'm a hardcore Nintendo fan and have been since I was 2 years old, and Nintendo is making me extremely frustrated. I just watch the greatest game company in the world which I've loved since I was a small child slowly turning to crap. It sucks.

Nobody may have asked for 3D World, but it's still a great game and is superior to 3D Land in every way.

Can you blame them for refusal to make another Metroid game, considering that right now, starting with Other M, is in a state not unlike Sonic the Hedgehog, only with an equal to Sonic 06 and the first Sonic Boom games (lacking any equals to Unleashed Wii/PS2, Colors, and Generations)? That resulted people in BEGGING SEGA to kill off the hedgehog with no problem at all. While somehow, Metroid fans, besides the universal hatred for Federation Force, still basically ask for a major risk at more wreckage to a franchise they claim to hold dear. There was a reason Metroid anniversaries aren't celebrated at this state and why they avoided one in favor to Kirby's anniversary.

"All signs point to them making games that goes much faster to develop, and therefor are much worse. They also want the mobile crowd - the crowd I dislike the most."

Welcome to the dark side of modern gaming, something of which Nintendo is BEGGED to adapt to. And now, we're getting the ugly results of it (something I fear will be the NX if Nintendo follows more into it) akin to this:

Though having a console that supremely lacks third party support (which, let's be honest, I doubt that people actually want anyway, see: Bayonetta 2, Resident Evil 4 and their exclusivity backlash) doesn't help much either.

@storm_of_swords:

I'd argue that the hardcore gamer (at least a subset of hardcore gamers) is the only audience that is really keeping Nintendo alive in the console market these days. While Nintendo may have the reputation of being for casual gamers and for kids, I don't think Nintendo sells very well to those audiences anymore in the console market. Nintendo briefly had casual gamers with the Wii, but they lost that market when mobile gaming became popular and kids these days don't care about Nintendo since Nintendo is not considered cool. I think most of the people who bought the Wii U and still love Nintendo are hardcore gamers that grew up with Nintendo from way back in the NES and SNES days and therefore Nintendo still holds a very special place in their heart"

I totally agree. I'm sure there are some kids that like Nintendo just as some like sitting in church. But I'd bet money the numbers are dwindling. My 10 year old nephew had a birthday party in August and not one of his friends had anything Nintendo. IPads are the mobile device and even at that age all the rage is getting to play COD.

Old gamers that still love Nintendo were their life blood with WiiU and the kids I know don't give a rats ass about Mario and Luigi these days.

Classic Nintendo games are far more hardcore than anything Sony or Microsoft have ever made.

In the past, hardcore gaming meant actual hardcore difficult gameplay. But ever since Sony & Microsoft started making games easier, with lots of hand-holding, a new generation of gamers have misappropriated the term "hardcore gaming" to mean juvenile things like "blood and gore." The word "hardcore" has become casualized.

Classic Nintendo game design was hardcore. Modern Sony/Microsoft game design is casual.

Mostly out of Japan Studio.

Nintendo makes a lot of games that have simple entry levels, but also offer extremely high defficulty for those that want it. A lot of there stuff appeals to all skill levels.

I enjoy fighting games competitively, but not much else. Shooters are pretty much best on PC, and Sony makes most of their money off of games that are anti-competitive such as Uncharted, Call of Duty and Tomb Raider. Sony actually never has had a good multiplayer game exclusive to themselves other than Crash Team Racing. I've also played Overwatch on both PC and PS4. Watching people play on PS4 and Xbox ONE was the most pathetic thing I've seen in my life, so I would really question Sony's ability to be hardcore outside of fighting games and crappy multi-platform shooters that go into a bargain bin after a month.

Pokemon brings more money in competitively than you can imagine, and not only that but it appeals to adults and children. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, and I play a lot of Nintendo games. Mario Party 1, 2 and 3 are deeper mechanically than any Sony exclusive multiplayer experience ever made.

The only thing getting people to talk about Nintendo is how different the company acts in regards to the competition. If the end result was useful and productive, then fine. Unfortunately though, "changing the way we game" has been met with hesitation and mockery and doubt. The company gave us a useless game pad that didn't bring much, if anything, useful to the table although it was pushed as earth shattering. Being different has its place. In the gaming market? No. The set formula has worked for decades.

Out of all three console makers, Smash Bros is the only exclusive that is a legitimate eSport. So yes, Nintendo still caters to the hardcore, not to hobbyists.

I'd argue that its mainly the CASUAL gamer that Nintendo isn't appealing to. No, not the Wii casual, the GTA/Call of Duty/Madden casual (that buys those games and little else) that makes up the great majority of the Xbox and PS4's sales.

The majority of the Nintendo "core customer" that sticks with them no matter what has systems other than the Wii U, because they're hobbyists, it's the casuals they need to entice but haven't because their third party relations have been so bad for so long the image is irreparably set.

Still can't believe what they did to Metro prime

I think their full releases still offer plenty for a "hardcore" gamer, adults, casual, and children. They generally still put gameplay over story, something that a lot of dev's do much any more. I especially looking at naughty dog when I feel like their games while thematically for adults, are designed more for casual gamers, linear levels that push you through fairly easy challenges to view story/setpieces.

Yeah I know, right? Federation Force looks like shit...I'm surprised they managed to do worse than Other M which was really disappointing in itself.

As others have asked before: define hardcore.

Does it relate to perceived "maturity", such as games rated M or higher?

Does it relate to how many hours you can get out of its multiplayer?

It'd be nice to know what people meant by hardcore. Then we wouldn't have so many of these threads. (And then again, without these threads the board would likely finish dying its slow, painful death.)

Nah. That boat has long since passed. (Though I want them to come back)

They had it with the Gamecube so all they really needed was one more good Generation of a system like the Cube (meaning it could keep up with graphical standards of 3rd Party studios) with an Improved controller and a Disc that can hold up more than 1.5 gb. The Cube's hardware wasn't the problem as there were some pretty dang awesome looking games on it.

But for now, Nintendo seems hell bent to try to NOT be a system that caters to Gamers and only be that "entry level" "My First Gaming System" console to the point where no one wants to really admit in having one, despite it having games that would appeal to the "Hardcore" gamer. (like Xenoblade or Bayonetta).

It's just not "cool" to own a Nintendo system now.