Will DirectX 12 Help the Xbox 1?

#101 Posted by slimdogmilionar (559 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We fanboys dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware,

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

NDA?...

So Microsoft would sue them selves if they broke the NDA...

AMD ndas. sorry.

What does AMD have to do with DX12?... Its called Microsoft DirectX.

Amd and Microsoft have something new they been working on together thats supposed to be announced at GDC . All amd products are optimized for windows aside from the PS4 which still had to use parts from directX 11, so it makes sense that they would work together on some level. Not to mention that there are articles floating around that say the Xbone api and Mantle are the same. AMD and Microsoft will always work together M$ has a long standing relationship with those guys. Makes me wonder if AMD will start to favor M$ because they more on the same page.

#102 Edited by misterpmedia (3387 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:
@misterpmedia said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware like the bonaire card.

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

We've got a live one!

Even digital foundry mentioned the bonaire GPU in their Titanfall performance review.

thats why i said bonaire card = current DirectX 11 tech.

but wheres the DX12 tech? locked by MS SDK software?

what about if Hardware tiled resources will make the single bonaire act like 2 gpus instead of one with DX12?

are you sure you're understanding what you're typing lol

Never Doubt Microsoft when it comes to surprises.

You're definitely setting yourself up for massive disappointment. Don't say I didn't warn you lol.

Especially as it took me one click to find where you got all that bunk from. Dat misterx garbage.

#103 Edited by misterpmedia (3387 posts) -

@blackace said:

@magicalclick said:

Can't wait to see what Dx12 can do.

People who think everything will be shown at the GDC is setting themselves up for disappointment. I'm sure there will be tech demos and all that, but any big news concerning XB1 won't happen until the E3. I'm curious to see what Dx12 can do as well.

This is A+ Misterxian style pre-emptive damage control. I can't say I'm surprised some people are already saying this. The big unveil is on the 20th, not E3. Just like everything was going to be revealed and tested and demo'd at hotchips symposium in august of last year.

#104 Posted by BattleSpectre (6128 posts) -

I think they should focus on getting 1080p on all games, if that means going the DX12 route, than yes please.

#105 Posted by FastRobby (1773 posts) -

Best case, Xbox One actually has hidden powers, secret sauce, and it will be unlocked with DirectX12. But we'll probably have to wait for E3.

Worst case, DirectX12 just has some software enhancements, and it will improve Xbox One's graphic capabilities, but not as much as we would hope, and definitely not to be at par with the PS4.

I think it will be somewhere in between, and I'm pretty sure it will be much easier to develop cross platform over Microsoft devices (phone, tablet, pc, xbox). Which is also a nice plus. We'll see in two days.

#106 Posted by scatteh316 (4924 posts) -

@BattleSpectre said:

I think they should focus on getting 1080p on all games, if that means going the DX12 route, than yes please.

Don't be silly... an API will not magically give Xbone the fill rate required for 1080p.

#107 Posted by tormentos (18082 posts) -

@Solid_Max13 said:

DirectX 12 is going to be showcased this Thursday at GDC and it seems like it Xbox One will get some form of it to help with SDK kits, I don't believe MisterXmedia and his baloney "secret sauce extra chip crap" But I do believe this can help Xbox achieve 1080p and catch up to where multiplats are on the PS4, or will it make no difference at all?

What ever the xbox one accomplish by API the PS4 will as well,and since both GPU are GCN there is nothing one can do that the other can't,one is just stronger and is on PS4.

MS always over promise and under deliver with DX,is the reason AMD has mantle their partners..hahaha

#108 Posted by Solid_Max13 (3548 posts) -

@misterpmedia said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:
@misterpmedia said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware like the bonaire card.

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

We've got a live one!

Even digital foundry mentioned the bonaire GPU in their Titanfall performance review.

thats why i said bonaire card = current DirectX 11 tech.

but wheres the DX12 tech? locked by MS SDK software?

what about if Hardware tiled resources will make the single bonaire act like 2 gpus instead of one with DX12?

are you sure you're understanding what you're typing lol

Never Doubt Microsoft when it comes to surprises.

You're definitely setting yourself up for massive disappointment. Don't say I didn't warn you lol.

Especially as it took me one click to find where you got all that bunk from. Dat misterx garbage.

Are you serious!!!! LMFAO wow oh wow!!! Even the dumbest Lems don't believe his garbage anymore!!!

#109 Posted by BattleSpectre (6128 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:

@BattleSpectre said:

I think they should focus on getting 1080p on all games, if that means going the DX12 route, than yes please.

Don't be silly... an API will not magically give Xbone the fill rate required for 1080p.

I meant whatever it takes, 1080p should be their first priority.

#110 Edited by FastRobby (1773 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

DirectX 12 is going to be showcased this Thursday at GDC and it seems like it Xbox One will get some form of it to help with SDK kits, I don't believe MisterXmedia and his baloney "secret sauce extra chip crap" But I do believe this can help Xbox achieve 1080p and catch up to where multiplats are on the PS4, or will it make no difference at all?

What ever the xbox one accomplish by API the PS4 will as well,and since both GPU are GCN there is nothing one can do that the other can't,one is just stronger and is on PS4.

MS always over promise and under deliver with DX,is the reason AMD has mantle their partners..hahaha

That's not really true, you can do different things with different hardware... So if the API get's updates specifically for Xbox hardware, doesn't mean PS4 can just do the same. Of course they can update, but you can't do the same things. So if they can optimize the use of eSRAM fully, like using tiled resources, this can go much quicker than on a PS4 with GDDR5

#111 Edited by tormentos (18082 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We fanboys dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware,

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

#Totalbullsh**

MisterXmedia has really make a fool of you people..hahaha

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

AMD ndas. sorry.

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

There is no secret sauce,the xbox one is Bonaire 7790 which can't even beat a damn 7850 even over clocked to 1075mhz with 14 CU,imagine how sad it is the one on xbox one that is under clocked to 853 mhz and only has 12 CU.

The xbox one is 1.3TF the 7790 Bonaire is 1.79TF so yeah do the math..

@Tighaman said:

You people keep ignoring facts:

The last time sony and AMD was together talking about the tech in the ps4 has been Feb-Mar the ps4 launched in NOV no major updates no driver SDK, from AMD at all. FACT

X1 launched in Nov AMD and MS been close ever since the catalyst drivers beta 14.1 came in Dec X1 got an update right after that did the ps4? NO

Catalyst drivers 14.2 in feb X1 got on in march did the ps4? NO

AMD shows Mantle Swarm benchmarks MS puts out a new SDK for Devs did the ps4? NO

AMD Tweet 2isbetterthan1 the sending pics asking is this an AMD or MS REP wheres the ps4?

MS and AMD are right on time with each other with sony no where to be found now why all of that hoopla just for a 7790 with some esram connected to it?

Just because sony doesn't make public every time they talk with AMD it doesn't mean they don't talk WTF man.?

Second of course MS has get upgrades the SDK was all over the place and was sh** this was leaked by CBOAT who claimed that performance had dropped after E3,but no one believe it,developers like Ubisoft confirm it to MS was behind tool wise,is not some secret sauce that AMD has between them and MS,it is that MS rushed everything like always.

How do you know Sony didn't get those catalyst drivers.? Do you work for sony do you work on the PS4.? So your are assuming that because sony hasn't say so well they didn't get any,how many times sony talked about getting drivers from Nvidia.?

Thats funny because the PS4 API work more or less like Mantle,funny they same hasn't been say about DX,well because we know DX doesn't work like mantle.

The xbox one is not even a full 7790 is a downgrade one with lower clock speed,keep dreaming that there is some secret sauce we just keep laughing at you people.

@ronvalencia said:

@Wasdie:

Xbox One has it's own SDK/driver improvements e.g. enabling it's ACE units and second render pipeline.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

It's unknown if DirectX12 will unlock AMD's ACE units and NVIDIA's HyperQ features for gaming async compute.

Both AMD ACE and NVIDIA HyperQ fills holes during sync compute.

That is funny because that is what sony has been saying since February and you have been arguing against it and downplaying it,so now the xbox one got an update to unlock its Aces and Asynchronous compute.? I hope they got an update to add more to,since the PS4 has 8 of those Aces and 64 command,funny just like AMD R9 290... I wonder why..

But i know you will counter now with some silly excuse trying to downplay on PS4 what you defend on xbox one...How is that volatile bit on xbox one..

#112 Posted by FastRobby (1773 posts) -

You're giving CBOAT a source. Go back to Neogaf...

#113 Posted by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

It will help some, as far as resource management and using a mature API that is actually designed with the hardware in mind. I imagine it's been more a case of the DX11 tools suffering because man hours and focus has been put on getting the DX12 stuff to work right and interface well. The tools for the Xbone have been shyte from what developers have been saying. That being said, MS clearly has a gameplan with DX12 and I imagine slogging along to get to that point is more important for MS than putting in a ton of support for a dev environment that is being replaced anyway.

Answer the question?

That's a very good answer, nods.

#114 Posted by ACP_45 (429 posts) -

@misterpmedia: MisterXMedia is pathetic... -__-

Stacking GPU’s ??

Secret Extra RAM ???

He should just launch a nuke on top of Sony HQ

#115 Posted by bob15x (1 posts) -

@acp_45: But it will be a very fun day if he was right. If any fanboys deserve to get slaughtered its the Sony Fanboys.

#116 Posted by misterpmedia (3387 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We fanboys dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware,

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

#Totalbullsh**

MisterXmedia has really make a fool of you people..hahaha

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

AMD ndas. sorry.

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

There is no secret sauce,the xbox one is Bonaire 7790 which can't even beat a damn 7850 even over clocked to 1075mhz with 14 CU,imagine how sad it is the one on xbox one that is under clocked to 853 mhz and only has 12 CU.

The xbox one is 1.3TF the 7790 Bonaire is 1.79TF so yeah do the math..

@Tighaman said:

You people keep ignoring facts:

The last time sony and AMD was together talking about the tech in the ps4 has been Feb-Mar the ps4 launched in NOV no major updates no driver SDK, from AMD at all. FACT

X1 launched in Nov AMD and MS been close ever since the catalyst drivers beta 14.1 came in Dec X1 got an update right after that did the ps4? NO

Catalyst drivers 14.2 in feb X1 got on in march did the ps4? NO

AMD shows Mantle Swarm benchmarks MS puts out a new SDK for Devs did the ps4? NO

AMD Tweet 2isbetterthan1 the sending pics asking is this an AMD or MS REP wheres the ps4?

MS and AMD are right on time with each other with sony no where to be found now why all of that hoopla just for a 7790 with some esram connected to it?

Just because sony doesn't make public every time they talk with AMD it doesn't mean they don't talk WTF man.?

Second of course MS has get upgrades the SDK was all over the place and was sh** this was leaked by CBOAT who claimed that performance had dropped after E3,but no one believe it,developers like Ubisoft confirm it to MS was behind tool wise,is not some secret sauce that AMD has between them and MS,it is that MS rushed everything like always.

How do you know Sony didn't get those catalyst drivers.? Do you work for sony do you work on the PS4.? So your are assuming that because sony hasn't say so well they didn't get any,how many times sony talked about getting drivers from Nvidia.?

Thats funny because the PS4 API work more or less like Mantle,funny they same hasn't been say about DX,well because we know DX doesn't work like mantle.

The xbox one is not even a full 7790 is a downgrade one with lower clock speed,keep dreaming that there is some secret sauce we just keep laughing at you people.

was gonna say, hasn't AMD been quite outspoken about their praise for their PS4 design, it's even similar to what mantle is isn't it? Remember reading on some DICE slides that PS4 and what ever DICE deal with will lead the way for most things. Not to mention coherent compute and stuff like HUMA getting leaked and stuff by an AMD representative.

#117 Posted by ACP_45 (429 posts) -

@Gue1:

@Gue1 said:

the Xbone will never surpass the PS4 when it comes to sales let alone graphics. A Frostbite programmer compared the PS4's ACE to the Cell's SPE's and the Xbone doesn't even has an equivalent to that... It's time to move on lems.

He even says that the Sony's Api's are just as good or maybe even better than Mantle.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/17/frostbite-tech-director-we-dont-need-mantle-on-ps4-talks-about-the-ps3s-spu-and-ps4s-aces/

Info about PSSL, the API for the PS4:

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdceurope2013/Presentations/825424RichardStenson.pdf

They didn’t say that PS4’s API is better than Mantle, they said that they didn’t need Mantle for BF4 on PS4 same for Xbox One.

At the moment Xbox One has a pretty crap development kit....Optimisation is a little harder too and more time is spent on Xbox One if you want to achieve 900p than on PS4.

I also think that hardware is becoming less of a problem when you look at what API’s can do nowadays.

Remember just after the PS4’s and Xbox One’s launch a guy named Adrian Chmielarz had access to a PS4 and Xbox One, he said PS4 is 50% faster ?

Yeah well, he recently came back on his statement :

"Yeah, when I said PS4 is 50% faster a lot of people assumed I meant that Xbox One could not end up on top. Things are never as simple as you’d think just looking at the specs.”

The war is very far from over. Anyone with even one eye open can see that Sony is on the roll, with great hardware, great sales, and great attitude. And they’re about to introduce VR into the mix. And there’s going to be Uncharted 4. But trust me, Microsoft has some aces up their sleeves as well, and the next year is going to be very, very interesting.”

Xbox One actually has a more balanced eco system. Microsoft took on a more challenging virtualization bid, but might profit off greater flexiblity and utility for its console, while Sony picked more of a speculative hardware target (GDDR5), which may pay off in terms lower hardware costs and obviously relying just purely off of raw performance.

#118 Posted by NFJSupreme (5371 posts) -

Of course it will help. Improved apis always help. But will it be a huge difference or put it on par with the ps4? Nope. But it will inch it closer though.

#119 Edited by groowagon (2806 posts) -

the real question is; will anything help Xbox 1?

#120 Edited by ACP_45 (429 posts) -

@bob15x: I know, there are way too many of them......

#121 Posted by Tighaman (948 posts) -

@tormentos:

torm there hasn't been a update on the ps4 since feb and it wasn't from AMD no driver update from AMD for the ps4 from the first launch

SONY ICE team has been working on drivers but not from AMD and the latest changes been for headsets and stability for the UI

CBOAT? You gonna use him as your insider I swear that dude is no credible than mister insider for real. lol

Mantle "like" is not the same thing as Mantle

Again you go find me a AMD card with the following

2 extra graphic compute processors

2 extra CPU compute processors

2 rendering pipelines

ESRAM cache on the GPU

#122 Posted by tormentos (18082 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos:

torm there hasn't been a update on the ps4 since feb and it wasn't from AMD no driver update from AMD for the ps4 from the first launch

SONY ICE team has been working on drivers but not from AMD and the latest changes been for headsets and stability for the UI

CBOAT? You gonna use him as your insider I swear that dude is no credible than mister insider for real. lol

Mantle "like" is not the same thing as Mantle

Again you go find me a AMD card with the following

2 extra graphic compute processors

2 extra CPU compute processors

2 rendering pipelines

ESRAM cache on the GPU

No that is totally speculative on your part you have no proof that what so ever.

ICE team works on sony own tools which is used mostly for first party games.

Oh i just pointed what CBOAT say about performance and he was 100% right on that one launch games confirm it,but also Ubisoft confirms it MS was behind tools wise.

MisterX media is a moron who has no inside info what so ever,CBOAT has bean leaking info in neogaf since 2004.

And that some how is suppose to be bad.? Mantle is an API created by AMD to compete with console API like the ones sony has had for years,not the other way around,so when i and people say sony api work like Mantle,is basically the other way around Mantle work like sony's API.

Were in hell did you pull that from.?

And the 7850 has 2 render pipelines just like the 7790 as well.

The xbox one has 14 CU 2 are disable for redundancy his mean they will never ever be turn on.

It has an 8 core Jaguar just like the PS4.

And ESRAM is more like a scratch pad than a Cache,things like this is what make delusional fanboys like you believe that there is something else when there is non.

There is no secret souse,the PS4 also has 2 render pipelines also has 8 aces 64 commands and a volatile bit that the xbox one lack,or have is way smaller quantity like Aces,and 6 more CU units.

#123 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16612 posts) -

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

#124 Posted by tormentos (18082 posts) -
@acp_45 said:

@Gue1:

They didn’t say that PS4’s API is better than Mantle, they said that they didn’t need Mantle for BF4 on PS4 same for Xbox One.

At the moment Xbox One has a pretty crap development kit....Optimisation is a little harder too and more time is spent on Xbox One if you want to achieve 900p than on PS4.

I also think that hardware is becoming less of a problem when you look at what API’s can do nowadays.

Remember just after the PS4’s and Xbox One’s launch a guy named Adrian Chmielarz had access to a PS4 and Xbox One, he said PS4 is 50% faster ?

Yeah well, he recently came back on his statement :

"Yeah, when I said PS4 is 50% faster a lot of people assumed I meant that Xbox One could not end up on top. Things are never as simple as you’d think just looking at the specs.”

The war is very far from over. Anyone with even one eye open can see that Sony is on the roll, with great hardware, great sales, and great attitude. And they’re about to introduce VR into the mix. And there’s going to be Uncharted 4. But trust me, Microsoft has some aces up their sleeves as well, and the next year is going to be very, very interesting.”

Xbox One actually has a more balanced eco system. Microsoft took on a more challenging virtualization bid, but might profit off greater flexiblity and utility for its console, while Sony picked more of a speculative hardware target (GDDR5), which may pay off in terms lower hardware costs and obviously relying just purely off of raw performance.

By more balance you mean full of bottle necks and running more OS over head because it runs 3.?

Or because they carefully chose DDR3 slow ass memory + a small pool of ESRAM that would give problems with 1080p.?

There is nothing balance about the xbox one,the word balance was trow in the mix by a PR guy to cover the xbox one weakness,most developers agree the PS4 is faster,hardware doesn't lie period.

GDDR5 >>> DDR3

GCN 18 CU >>>. GCN 12 CU,the xbox one is so sad that is running 100mhz more on its CPU and still the PS4 is running faster in CPU test,balance is a cover up for weak when you are talking xbox one.

In fact how in fu** GDDR5 will pay more in lower hardware cost when GDDR5 is way more expensive than DDR3 will ever be.

Please face it MS already confirmed they did not target hi end graphics on purpose,they wanted to build Kinect in,they wanted you to have a TV and more media oriented experience and they didn't need a R9 290 for that,they chose a low end GPU with 14 CU and decide to turn 2 off for yields which is what sony did with its GPU as well because it is the right way to do it,because is cost effective,that way chips that come with 14,13 and 12 CU working can be use.

#125 Posted by FastRobby (1773 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

#126 Posted by Tighaman (948 posts) -

@tormentos: you got a couple of things mixed up and thing you need to go read again up on everything you just said and I said what GPU has ALL OF THAT ONE CHIP? NONE

You don't even have a ps4 so why are you talking to me lol

#127 Edited by Solid_Max13 (3548 posts) -

@FastRobby said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

I think you're mixing up hardware and software, I think DirectX will make gaming and development easier on the Xbox but the hardware is not going to change, Xbones biggest mistake was using eSRAM which is much more expensive harder to develop for and also they didn't use enough of it.

#128 Edited by FastRobby (1773 posts) -
@Solid_Max13 said:

@FastRobby said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

I think you're mixing up hardware and software, I think DirectX will make gaming and development easier on the Xbox but the hardware is not going to change, Xbones biggest mistake was using eSRAM which is much more expensive harder to develop for and also they didn't use enough of it.

I actually think that with DX12, they will have enough eSRAM, because of the optimizations. But I also believe that the Xbox One hasn't showed all of his cards. It's like the witcher developer said, they did the same on the xbox 360, where they opened up some parts for the developers that were closed at first.

#129 Edited by ACP_45 (429 posts) -

@tormentos: I clearly said that hardware is becoming less of a problem and this is my observation and looking at what API’s can do....It’s a pretty good observation...... Raytracing is apparently coming to Xbox One which I would want to see first before I believe it because the Xbox One and PS4 combined would like blow up if they tried that combined (okay maybe not combined ).

Balanced Eco System meaning actually focusing on all aspects of the console hardware and not just focusing all resources on graphics.....

Xbox One is 90$ more in actuality.

#130 Posted by Solid_Max13 (3548 posts) -

@FastRobby said:
@Solid_Max13 said:

@FastRobby said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

I think you're mixing up hardware and software, I think DirectX will make gaming and development easier on the Xbox but the hardware is not going to change, Xbones biggest mistake was using eSRAM which is much more expensive harder to develop for and also they didn't use enough of it.

I actually think that with DX12, they will have enough eSRAM, because of the optimizations. But I also believe that the Xbox One hasn't showed all of his cards. It's like the witcher developer said, they did the same on the xbox 360, where they opened up some parts for the developers that were closed at first.

Devs have already had a hard time utilizing resources on the Xbox One, and last gen it was preferred to use Xbox 360 and of course we haven't seen all of what the Xbox can do, neither have we seen on the PS4, but with weaker multiplats and devs primarily using PS4 to dev on then port to X1, I don't see that changing, MS was supposed to announce DX 11.2 but now because the Xbox is not among that of preferred devs MS is now trying to save it with DX12, and even if they utilize more eSRAM it's still to little, there's no secret sauce and people like MisterXMedia are leading people astray with wild comments about 10.4550 GigaFlops and more power and secret sauce, it's all nothing more than Fap material

#131 Edited by FoxbatAlpha (7103 posts) -

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

#132 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16612 posts) -

@Solid_Max13 said:

@FastRobby said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

I think you're mixing up hardware and software, I think DirectX will make gaming and development easier on the Xbox but the hardware is not going to change, Xbones biggest mistake was using eSRAM which is much more expensive harder to develop for and also they didn't use enough of it.

Exactly. The Xbox One doesn't have DX12 hardware.

#133 Posted by Shewgenja (9247 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

Yup. Sony and MS signed an agreement that once DX12 goes live on the XBone, the PS4 will cease to have any updates. TCHBO

#134 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7103 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

Yup. Sony and MS signed an agreement that once DX12 goes live on the XBone, the PS4 will cease to have any updates. TCHBO

Come on Shwengs, it was a little funny.

#135 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7103 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@FastRobby said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Solid_Max13 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Like DX10 did for the 360? Oh wait..

Yea MS really dropped the ball on that at the time but this actually seems legit, but my question is will it help the Xbox?

How does this seem legit ? Does Xbox One hardware support DX12 ?

Yes. That's why there is a logo on the GDC announcement from Xbox One. And the DX12 account also said something in the lines of making gaming better on Xbox One.

I think you're mixing up hardware and software, I think DirectX will make gaming and development easier on the Xbox but the hardware is not going to change, Xbones biggest mistake was using eSRAM which is much more expensive harder to develop for and also they didn't use enough of it.

Exactly. The Xbox One doesn't have DX12 hardware.

I disagree. Microsoft has said "Beta tested in the future" in Xbox One adds. This glorious statement can mean only one thing. That hardware is locked and loaded.

#136 Posted by Shewgenja (9247 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

@Shewgenja said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

Yup. Sony and MS signed an agreement that once DX12 goes live on the XBone, the PS4 will cease to have any updates. TCHBO

Come on Shwengs, it was a little funny.

:) You're right, I did giggle. My funny bone is broken today. Work stuff :/ Got a copy of MGS with my name on it, though :)

#137 Posted by Suppaman100 (3910 posts) -

Lol at lemmings still believing in "secret sauce". Face it Xbone's hardware is crap

#138 Posted by MrXboxOne (742 posts) -

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

#139 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7103 posts) -

@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

+1 You speak logic, a language that cows have banned from the land of Fantasy.

#140 Posted by scatteh316 (4924 posts) -

@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

1. You need to get your eyes tested

2. You can't feel PS4's huge frame rate advantage in BF4? If you can't...get tested

3. GDDR5 is the developers favorite, it doesn't require any special memory management as it's all one pool and offers close to maximum throughout.

4. Ryse being graphics king is personal opinion, it's too blurry for my eyes.

5. Define 50% more powerful? The biggest advantage PS4 has over Xbone is fill rate, it has 50% more of so it'll always handle particle effects and resolution better then Xbone will.

6. Xbones CPU is 15% faster? Complete bullshit, PS4's OS takes up much less CPU cycles then Xbones does leaving PS4 with more real world CPU power.

7. And ESRAM doesn't close any gap, it does nothing but create a ball ache for developers, said developers have already come and said it's horrible. It's also way to small for 1080p. If the ESRAM was 64Mb then it would of been perfect. 360 EDRAM was also way to small for what it needed to do.

Just look at this post from a respected developer over at Beyond3D forums

Deferred renderers are *very* common for next-gen titles, especially those in development. With the major middleware providers all using deferred rendering, games using forward rendering are very likely to be the minority from this point on (even considering games using Forward+/Tiled Forward/whatever you want to call it).

Back when we were in the prototype stage we were using a deferred renderer, with a tiled compute-based approach similar to what Frostbite uses. At the time we had a G-Buffer setup like this:

Lighting target: RGBA16f

Normals: RG16

Diffuse albedo + BRDF ID: RGBA8

Specular albedo + roughness: RGBA8

Tangents: RG16

Depth: D32

So if you're looking to target 1920x1080 with that setup, then you're talking about (8 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4) * 1920 * 1080 = 55.3MB. On top of that we supported 16 shadow-casting lights which required 16 1024x1024 shadow maps in an array, plus 4 2048x2048 cascades for a directional light. That gives you 64MB of shadow maps + another 64MB of cascade maps, which you'll want to be reading from at the same time you're reading from your G-Buffers. Obviously some of these numbers are pretty extreme (we were still prototyping) and you could certainly reduce that a lot, but I wanted to give an idea of the upper bound on what an engine might want to be putting in ESRAM for their main render pass. However even without the shadows it doesn't really bode well for fitting all of your G-Buffers in 32MB at 1080p. Which means either decreasing resolution, or making some tough choices about which render targets (or which portions of render targets, if using tiled rendering) should live in ESRAM. Any kind of MSAA at 1080p also seems like a no-go for fitting in ESRAM, even for forward rendering. Just having a RGBA16f target + D32 depth buffer at 2xMSAA requires around 47.5MB at 1920x1080.

Link: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1829417&postcount=185

#141 Posted by TheShensolidus (224 posts) -

DX 12 won't be benefiting the Xbox One specifically, although i'm sure all the fanboys the world over won't believe me no matter what I say. DX12 is an API update, and this one (from my internal understanding of the direction it has been going) was to bring DirectX api compatibility into a multitude of devices i.e. phones & tablets. There is a lot more on DX 12 coming out this week, so stay tuned for it, but it isn't this optimization God send many of you seem to think it'll be for the Xbone SPECIFICALLY.

The Xbox One already uses a specially built version of a DirectX-like API for consoles, similar to what the 360 did. Because it is standardized, non-iterating hardware, each of the features you bring to this API has to be functional for the hardware the xbox one has; DX 12 will incorporate features for a multitude of GPU's and CPU's that just do not pertain to the Xbone. That being said, the DX team is responsible for creating optimizations for the Xbox One's API, so you will see features being added over the years that get better performance deltas. This is all stuff we have known about and are expecting. Will some of those features resemble or be seen in DX12 proper? I'm sure some will, yes. But it won't ever be straight up DX12, thats just not how it works.

#142 Posted by Solid_Max13 (3548 posts) -

@theshensolidus said:

DX 12 won't be benefiting the Xbox One specifically, although i'm sure all the fanboys the world over won't believe me no matter what I say. DX12 is an API update, and this one (from my internal understanding of the direction it has been going) was to bring DirectX api compatibility into a multitude of devices i.e. phones & tablets. There is a lot more on DX 12 coming out this week, so stay tuned for it, but it isn't this optimization God send many of you seem to think it'll be for the Xbone SPECIFICALLY.

The Xbox One already uses a specially built version of a DirectX-like API for consoles, similar to what the 360 did. Because it is standardized, non-iterating hardware, each of the features you bring to this API has to be functional for the hardware the xbox one has; DX 12 will incorporate features for a multitude of GPU's and CPU's that just do not pertain to the Xbone. That being said, the DX team is responsible for creating optimizations for the Xbox One's API, so you will see features being added over the years that get better performance deltas. This is all stuff we have known about and are expecting. Will some of those features resemble or be seen in DX12 proper? I'm sure some will, yes. But it won't ever be straight up DX12, thats just not how it works.

See I don't think you're crazy that actually makes sense and what I believe it and a few others to be as well.

#143 Posted by ronvalencia (15112 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

If DX12 features are hardware specific then the Xbox One would have been manufactured with that in mind... Meaning why would Microsoft hold that back until know?... Short answer scam.

Company NDA bro,

We fanboys dont know yet if DX12 will unlock some hardware that was meant for DX12 instead of the current tech like DirectX11 hardware,

lets wait until GDC technology event for that - March 20 2014.

#Totalbullsh**

MisterXmedia has really make a fool of you people..hahaha

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

AMD ndas. sorry.

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

There is no secret sauce,the xbox one is Bonaire 7790 which can't even beat a damn 7850 even over clocked to 1075mhz with 14 CU,imagine how sad it is the one on xbox one that is under clocked to 853 mhz and only has 12 CU.

The xbox one is 1.3TF the 7790 Bonaire is 1.79TF so yeah do the math..

@Tighaman said:

You people keep ignoring facts:

The last time sony and AMD was together talking about the tech in the ps4 has been Feb-Mar the ps4 launched in NOV no major updates no driver SDK, from AMD at all. FACT

X1 launched in Nov AMD and MS been close ever since the catalyst drivers beta 14.1 came in Dec X1 got an update right after that did the ps4? NO

Catalyst drivers 14.2 in feb X1 got on in march did the ps4? NO

AMD shows Mantle Swarm benchmarks MS puts out a new SDK for Devs did the ps4? NO

AMD Tweet 2isbetterthan1 the sending pics asking is this an AMD or MS REP wheres the ps4?

MS and AMD are right on time with each other with sony no where to be found now why all of that hoopla just for a 7790 with some esram connected to it?

Just because sony doesn't make public every time they talk with AMD it doesn't mean they don't talk WTF man.?

Second of course MS has get upgrades the SDK was all over the place and was sh** this was leaked by CBOAT who claimed that performance had dropped after E3,but no one believe it,developers like Ubisoft confirm it to MS was behind tool wise,is not some secret sauce that AMD has between them and MS,it is that MS rushed everything like always.

How do you know Sony didn't get those catalyst drivers.? Do you work for sony do you work on the PS4.? So your are assuming that because sony hasn't say so well they didn't get any,how many times sony talked about getting drivers from Nvidia.?

Thats funny because the PS4 API work more or less like Mantle,funny they same hasn't been say about DX,well because we know DX doesn't work like mantle.

The xbox one is not even a full 7790 is a downgrade one with lower clock speed,keep dreaming that there is some secret sauce we just keep laughing at you people.

@ronvalencia said:

@Wasdie:

Xbox One has it's own SDK/driver improvements e.g. enabling it's ACE units and second render pipeline.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

It's unknown if DirectX12 will unlock AMD's ACE units and NVIDIA's HyperQ features for gaming async compute.

Both AMD ACE and NVIDIA HyperQ fills holes during sync compute.

That is funny because that is what sony has been saying since February and you have been arguing against it and downplaying it,so now the xbox one got an update to unlock its Aces and Asynchronous compute.? I hope they got an update to add more to,since the PS4 has 8 of those Aces and 64 command,funny just like AMD R9 290... I wonder why..

But i know you will counter now with some silly excuse trying to downplay on PS4 what you defend on xbox one...How is that volatile bit on xbox one..

AMD Temash was released several months ahead of PS4 and it has 4 ACE units.

#144 Posted by tormentos (18082 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: you got a couple of things mixed up and thing you need to go read again up on everything you just said and I said what GPU has ALL OF THAT ONE CHIP? NONE

You don't even have a ps4 so why are you talking to me lol

Why in hell do i need to own PS4 o be able to talk about specs.?Hahahahaaaaaaa

My god so you ran out of arguments and hide on me not having a PS4..lol

@acp_45 said:

@tormentos: I clearly said that hardware is becoming less of a problem and this is my observation and looking at what API’s can do....It’s a pretty good observation...... Raytracing is apparently coming to Xbox One which I would want to see first before I believe it because the Xbox One and PS4 combined would like blow up if they tried that combined (okay maybe not combined ).

Balanced Eco System meaning actually focusing on all aspects of the console hardware and not just focusing all resources on graphics.....

Xbox One is 90$ more in actuality.

Oh please tell me what the API can do that the PS4 ones can't...

Ray tracing has been done even on PS3,Warhawk had raytraced volumetric clouds.

Hell the whole raytracing wasn't even on the xbox one hardware but suppose to be done by the cloud,as ray tracing will slow the xbox one to a crawl.

Dude there is no balance on the xbox one,this has been shutdown like 100 times,the whole balance crap was bring into play to hide the xbox one weak ass hardware,in fact t he PS4 is a more balance system part by part,is easy,has not memory bottlenecks,uses the latest memory for graphics,is pretty straight forward design support HSA in its true form and is hUMA as well.

@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

Is not our fault that you are as blind as a mole rat.

Infamous just pissed all over Ryse look better is open world and runs at 1080p...ahahahaaaa

That crappy sh** game that doesn't allow you to move 12 feet from side to side..hahaha

But but the xbox one CPU is 15% FASTER..lol

@ronvalencia said:

AMD Temash was released several months ahead of PS4 and it has 4 ACE units.

Irrelevant the point is you are defending now what you downplayed on PS4..lol

#145 Posted by Krelian-co (10929 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

one has better performance and best multiplats, the other one has problems running source engine games at 720p, uses the microsoft hype word of the month to excuses xbone's terrible hardware, lem logic at its best

#146 Edited by ronvalencia (15112 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: you got a couple of things mixed up and thing you need to go read again up on everything you just said and I said what GPU has ALL OF THAT ONE CHIP? NONE

You don't even have a ps4 so why are you talking to me lol

Why in hell do i need to own PS4 o be able to talk about specs.?Hahahahaaaaaaa

My god so you ran out of arguments and hide on me not having a PS4..lol

@acp_45 said:

@tormentos: I clearly said that hardware is becoming less of a problem and this is my observation and looking at what API’s can do....It’s a pretty good observation...... Raytracing is apparently coming to Xbox One which I would want to see first before I believe it because the Xbox One and PS4 combined would like blow up if they tried that combined (okay maybe not combined ).

Balanced Eco System meaning actually focusing on all aspects of the console hardware and not just focusing all resources on graphics.....

Xbox One is 90$ more in actuality.

Oh please tell me what the API can do that the PS4 ones can't...

Ray tracing has been done even on PS3,Warhawk had raytraced volumetric clouds.

Hell the whole raytracing wasn't even on the xbox one hardware but suppose to be done by the cloud,as ray tracing will slow the xbox one to a crawl.

Dude there is no balance on the xbox one,this has been shutdown like 100 times,the whole balance crap was bring into play to hide the xbox one weak ass hardware,in fact t he PS4 is a more balance system part by part,is easy,has not memory bottlenecks,uses the latest memory for graphics,is pretty straight forward design support HSA in its true form and is hUMA as well.

@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

Is not our fault that you are as blind as a mole rat.

Infamous just pissed all over Ryse look better is open world and runs at 1080p...ahahahaaaa

That crappy sh** game that doesn't allow you to move 12 feet from side to side..hahaha

But but the xbox one CPU is 15% FASTER..lol

@ronvalencia said:

AMD Temash was released several months ahead of PS4 and it has 4 ACE units.

Irrelevant the point is you are defending now what you downplayed on PS4..lol

The difference is AMD GCN is not Fermi vs Kepler GK110. AMD GCN 1.0 still includes ACE units to fill-in the holes during sync compute, hence it's not a big bullet point.

AMD Temash has 4 ACE units and it was mentioned as a side point.

R9-290X's 8 ACE units are backed by 44 CUs NOT by 18 CUs.

R9-290X is a near 4X scale of 7770.

7770 has 2 ACE units, 1 Rasterizer, 1 geometry, 16 ROPS, 10 CUs, 72 GB/s memory.

R9-290X has 8 ACE units, 4 Rasterizer, 4 geometry, 64 ROPS, 44 CUs, 320 GB/s memory.

AMD still allocated 2 ACE units per 11 CU block for R9-290X i.e. the ACE:CU ratio is still similar to 7770.

PS4's 8 ACE units could be a side effect for having two Temash modules i.e. 2X Temash modules = 8 CPU cores = 8 ACE units.

One Temash module = 4 CPU cores = 4 ACE units.

----------------

Raytracing can be done on X1's GCN.

“Let’s say you are using procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces – that is, using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU – Xbox One will be likely be faster.”

#147 Edited by misterpmedia (3387 posts) -

@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

These two paragraphs can be summed up to: "but at least the games are still fun....right?" False. Glad I don't have your eyes. lol dat scaler still doing MSs work killzone Shadowfall just got its graphics crown stolen by Infamous: Second Son and it's open world, Ryse is linear. Infamous Second Son What ever helps you sleep at night

#148 Edited by ronvalencia (15112 posts) -

@Krelian-co said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

So pretty much DX12 will push the "beta tested in the future" XBOX ONE further and also push the PS4 into being obsolete.

one has better performance and best multiplats, the other one has problems running source engine games at 720p, uses the microsoft hype word of the month to excuses xbone's terrible hardware, lem logic at its best

Titanfall for X1 renders at 1408x792 hence it's not quite 1280x720p.

From http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/titanfall/news/titanfall_resolution_will_be_cranked_up_when_xbox_one_gpu_resources_are_freed-up.html

"We've been experimenting with making it higher and lower," Baker explained. "One of the big tricks is how much ESRAM we're going to use, so we're thinking of not using hardware MSAA and instead using FXAA to make it so we don't have to have this larger render target. We're going to experiment. The target is either 1080p non-anti-aliased or 900p with FXAA. We're trying to optimise... we don't want to give up anything for higher res.

"So far we're not 100 per cent happy with any of the options. We're still working on it. For day one it's not going to change. We're still looking at it for post-day one. We're likely to increase resolution after we ship."

Devs for Titanfall run out time.

#149 Edited by Gaming-Planet (14022 posts) -

It'll help PC that's for sure and bring them closer in optimization to consoles.

The whole purpose of a console is to utilize whatever hardware is there and have full access of it, DX12 won't do anything to change that. It'll just add some new features.

#150 Edited by ronvalencia (15112 posts) -
@Gaming-Planet said:

It'll help PC that's for sure and bring them closer in optimization to consoles.

The whole purpose of a console is to utilize whatever hardware is there and have full access of it, DX12 won't do anything to change that. It'll just add some new features.

Apparently, Xbox One has bricked it's ACE units and second render unit.

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

@scatteh316 said:
@mrxboxone said:

I for the life of me don't see why Sony fanboys get in a giant circle jerk over the PS4. I own both consoles. The X1 is currently the graphics king of next generation. I own battlefield 4 for both the PS4 and X1 and I can not tell a difference in resolution or graphics. The colors in the X1 version are better and more detail but outside of that, they are identical. Same with COD :Ghost. I couldn't tell a single difference in graphics.

So I really don't understand why Sony fans are polishing there polls over GDDR5. Until the PS4 can match the X1 graphics king Ryse, or show me something that is without question better, that talk of being 50% more powerful is BS. Its not 50% powerful. If you sack the cards up against each other then yes. But with 32mb of ESRAM the gap is much less. Then take into account the CPU for X! is roughly 15% faster then the PS4's CPU and the gap is even smaller. Your looking at a difference of roughly %15 max. Hardly noticeable.

1. You need to get your eyes tested

2. You can't feel PS4's huge frame rate advantage in BF4? If you can't...get tested

3. GDDR5 is the developers favorite, it doesn't require any special memory management as it's all one pool and offers close to maximum throughout.

4. Ryse being graphics king is personal opinion, it's too blurry for my eyes.

5. Define 50% more powerful? The biggest advantage PS4 has over Xbone is fill rate, it has 50% more of so it'll always handle particle effects and resolution better then Xbone will.

6. Xbones CPU is 15% faster? Complete bullshit, PS4's OS takes up much less CPU cycles then Xbones does leaving PS4 with more real world CPU power.

7. And ESRAM doesn't close any gap, it does nothing but create a ball ache for developers, said developers have already come and said it's horrible. It's also way to small for 1080p. If the ESRAM was 64Mb then it would of been perfect. 360 EDRAM was also way to small for what it needed to do.

Just look at this post from a respected developer over at Beyond3D forums

Link: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1829417&postcount=185

5. Fill rate is a function for both ROPS and memory writes. The existence of 7950's 32 ROPS at 800Mhz with 240 GB/s > PS4's 32 ROPS at 800Mhz with 176 GB/s shows that PS4's 32 ROPS are not being fully used.

7. Against your POV. Read http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esram-too-small-to-output-games-at-1080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games

Bolcato stated that, “It was clearly a bit more complicated to extract the maximum power from the Xbox One when you’re trying to do that. I think eSRAM is easy to use. The only problem is…Part of the problem is that it’s just a little bit too small to output 1080p within that size. It’s such a small size within there that we can’t do everything in 1080p with that little buffer of super-fast RAM.

“It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.”

...

The PS4 is thus more of a gaming machine in its core focus. “Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One.”

One of the big difference between X1 vs Xbox 360 is connection bandwidth between embedded memory and GPU.

@slimdogmilionar said:

Amd and Microsoft have something new they been working on together thats supposed to be announced at GDC . All amd products are optimized for windows aside from the PS4 which still had to use parts from directX 11, so it makes sense that they would work together on some level. Not to mention that there are articles floating around that say the Xbone api and Mantle are the same. AMD and Microsoft will always work together M$ has a long standing relationship with those guys. Makes me wonder if AMD will start to favor M$ because they more on the same page.

AMD is just interested in selling more GPU products..

@scatteh316 said:
@BattleSpectre said:

I think they should focus on getting 1080p on all games, if that means going the DX12 route, than yes please.

Don't be silly... an API will not magically give Xbone the fill rate required for 1080p.

Radeon HD 7950's 32 ROPS results > PS4 says Hi.

Doubling X1's 16 ROPS to 32 ROPS wouldn't be fully used with memory bandwidth around 150 GB/s.

If we use Radeon HD 7950 as the top 32 ROPS example for 3DMarks Vantage' fill rate score i..e

240 GB/s = 32 ROPS at 800Mhz and we divide it by 2, you get 120 GB/s = 16 ROPS at 800Mhz. X1's 16 ROPS is clock at 853Mhz = 127.95 GB/s. Here we establish that 16 ROPS go further than 7790/R7-260X.

7790's 16 ROPS at 1Ghz is gimped by 96 GB/s memory bandwidth, which place it lower than 7850. The fastest known 12 CU equipped GCN (1.32 TFLOPS) with 153 GB/s memory bandwidth is the prototype 7850 with 12 CU. Read http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/768-shader-pitcairn-review,3196.html Note that prototype 7850 (with 12 CU) is slower than the retail 7850 (with 16 CU).

The big difference between prototype 7850 with 12 CU (1.32 TFLOPS) and Xbox One 1.32 TFLOPS) is hitting ~153 GB/s level memory bandwidth i.e. Xbox One needs "tiling tricks" for effective eSRAM usage.

After all the software tricks, PS4 is still faster than Xbox One i.e. the comparison is like R7-265 (1.89 TFLOPS + 179 GB/s memory bandwidth) > prototype 7850 with 12 CU (1.32 TFLOPS+ 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth).

BttleField 4 and R7-265 vs 7850 review from http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r7_265_review,14.html

Remember,

1. prototype 7850 (1.32 TFLOPS + 153.6 GB/s) is slower than 7850 (1.76 TFLOPS + 153.6 GB/s).

2. 7850 (1.76 TFLOPS+ 153.6 GB/s) is slower than R7-265 (1.89 TFLOPS + 179 GB/s)

Radeon HD 7770 (1.28 TFLOPS)/7790/R7-260X doesn't have the software options to exceed their lower memory bandwidth limits i.e. missing ESRAM booster.