Will consoles ever have a big strategy game?

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#1 Edited by uninspiredcup (8670 posts) -

My friends, a few attempts have been made in earnest (Halo Wars) After revolutionizing shooting people genre, Halo essentially filliped the table over and said "no, this is console now". Since that day, the vast majority of a genre wildly believed to be that of the pc domain, are now primarily console built.

Do you think at any point, home consoles will have a Halo moment with strategy games? If not, why?

#2 Posted by bobbetybob (19276 posts) -

No, because they don't work well with controllers.

#3 Edited by Jankarcop (9534 posts) -

No, the console gamers just want fast 4-5 hour long auto-aim games.

#4 Posted by uninspiredcup (8670 posts) -

@bobbetybob said:

No, because they don't work well with controllers.

Didn't they say the exact same thing with first people shooting? Pretty sure they did.

#5 Posted by bobbetybob (19276 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

@bobbetybob said:

No, because they don't work well with controllers.

Didn't they say the exact same thing with first people shooting? Pretty sure they did.

Unless controllers all evolve to be like WiiU gamepads there's no obvious way for them to cram the kind of interface needed for an RTS onto a controller whereas all controllers needed to make FPS work was analogue sticks. Maybe they could simplify the game itself to work on a controller the same way you could simplify a MOBA to work, but will that make it popular? Probably not.

#6 Edited by groowagon (2806 posts) -

no. you need mouse for them. ps1 had some command & conquers, but man was it awful to play...

but wait! XCOM propably works fairly well with a controller too because it's turn based. Civ V might work too because of that, but it has so much menu-fiddling and micro-management that it would possibly be more annoying.

#7 Edited by Gue1 (10015 posts) -

are you talking strictly about RTS (Real Time Strategy) or Strategy games in general? Because there are many from Disgaea to Xcom, to Valkyrie Chronicles, etc.

#8 Edited by Ribstaylor1 (630 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Well shooters on consoles work but they require Aim assist and all sorts of trickery to actually make it bearable and even then they still control like shit. But RTS games on consoles? I don't think anytime soon unless someone uses the wii-u's tablet or the ps3's touch pad with some awesome ingenuity.

#9 Posted by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

What constitutes the adjective "big?" Your Caesar thinks it's an insurance policy so you will always claim victory in this debate by responding," That's not big."

Disgaea games

Valkyria Chronicles

Comet Crash

PixelJunk games

Better question might be, citizen, if pc will ever get another goty exclusive.

Carry on.

#10 Posted by SNIPER4321 (10143 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@bobbetybob said:

No, because they don't work well with controllers.

Didn't they say the exact same thing with first people shooting? Pretty sure they did.

they did not. as a result FPS games are getting dumbed down to fit with controller.

half life 2 is avaliable on console and with controller it was unplayable.

#11 Edited by Cloud_imperium (3344 posts) -

No , consoles won't have RTS games . There are three main reasons for that .

1)- RTS games like Total War are extremely heavy on CPU .

2)- Limitations of controller

3)- Audience . RTS won't sell on consoles , it is not big there . Cover based shooters have much bigger fanbase on consoles .

#12 Posted by santoron (7740 posts) -

I was thinking about this the other day. Some franchise has to be the guinea pig, but exploiting an opportunity is easier than ever on modern consoles. They are easier than ever to port to, now feature plenty of RAM to handle the scale, and are easier than ever to publish on. Controls are an obstacle, but not an insurmountable one for several franchises.

I think Civ: BE represents a franchise that console gamers know of, and have had limited experience with, it's a title with plenty of hype, and the developer is familiar with cross platform development (with XCom, Civ:Rev), and the controls aren't beyond the scope of a controller (Civ V was one of the better working titles people reported with the Steam Controller). Starcraft II is another franchise with the chops to garner a lot of attention on a possible port, especially something timed around the Legacy of the Void's release. Though I have a harder time seeing how it works without kb/m, I've been surprised by Blizzard in this regard recently with D3.

Bottom line is we won't know what kind of market there is for TBS/RTS until a publisher decides to find out themselves. Personally, I think a good one could be very rewarding to the publisher.

#13 Posted by Cloud_imperium (3344 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

@bobbetybob said:

No, because they don't work well with controllers.

Didn't they say the exact same thing with first people shooting? Pretty sure they did.

There is huge difference between a console centric shooter and PC centric shooter . Compare Crysis 2 and Crysis 1 .

#14 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (14098 posts) -

Hopefully not, I generally dislike strategy games. I'd rather have resources better used elsewhere.

Aside from the old school age of mythology, age of empires.

#15 Posted by Cloud_imperium (3344 posts) -
@ReadingRainbow4 said:

Hopefully not, I generally dislike strategy games. I'd rather have resources better used elsewhere.

Aside from the old school age of mythology, age of empires.

So you are the only person in entire world who own consoles .?

#16 Posted by Kjranu (1007 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

My friends, a few attempts have been made in earnest (Halo Wars) After revolutionizing shooting people genre, Halo essentially filliped the table over and said "no, this is console now". Since that day, the vast majority of a genre wildly believed to be that of the pc domain, are now primarily console built.

Do you think at any point, home consoles will have a Halo moment with strategy games? If not, why?

The fact is Halo Wars would have been 100 times better if it was released on PC. What was good on consoles, is going to be great on PCs. It doesn't get more complicated than that.

#17 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (14098 posts) -

@Cloud_imperium said:
@ReadingRainbow4 said:

Hopefully not, I generally dislike strategy games. I'd rather have resources better used elsewhere.

Aside from the old school age of mythology, age of empires.

So you are the only person in entire world who own consoles .?

No, but to me I'm the only one that matters.

#18 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13078 posts) -

Alot of Hermits will use the "too complicated for a controller" card but in My Experience I think strategy game developers just suck at streamlining and accessibility. Its that simple.

#19 Posted by NFJSupreme (5377 posts) -

Not anytime soon

#20 Posted by Motokid6 (5639 posts) -

@xboxdone74: Your a little weirdo, huh?

#21 Posted by Cloud_imperium (3344 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

Alot of Hermits will use the "too complicated for a controller" card but in My Experience I think strategy game developers just suck at streamlining and accessibility. Its that simple.

You can't streamline Total War more than Shogun 2 . After that , it'll be more like "Dumbing Down"

#22 Posted by wis3boi (31382 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

Alot of Hermits will use the "too complicated for a controller" card but in My Experience I think strategy game developers just suck at streamlining and accessibility. Its that simple.

it really isn't. Not only do most large strategy games have too much stuff going on in the picture to be run on consoles, I'd love to know how you'd control something like total war with a controller. It'd be like trying to drive a rusty Ford truck, missing a wheel and brakes, and having a potato where the steering wheel should be

#23 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7280 posts) -

Consoles already have some very good turn based strategy games.

#24 Posted by NFJSupreme (5377 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: how would you streamline an rts then?

#25 Edited by Jankarcop (9534 posts) -

@xboxdone74 said:

Better question might be,


Better question is why PS4 has so much less aaa/aa games than PC in the same time frame, and the worst version of all multiplats so far.

#26 Posted by Boddicker (2745 posts) -

They don't do RTS and MOBA very well from what I've seen, though they do TBS just fine.

It's just RTS and MOBA are way more popular.

This could easily be solved with k/m support. But will they do it?

#27 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13078 posts) -

@ Cloud_imperium + wis3boi + NFJSupreme

Depends on the RTS..... A long time ago back when I was trying the Genre it was mouse orientated in its design and many of the keyboard keys were just shortcuts for those who didn't want to navigate the interface..... If Strategies are still like that, if they can still be played mostly with a mouse then designing one around a controller is no biggie. After all, you can only have so much depth before the things you keep piling on the game are just complex for complexities sake.

#28 Posted by flashn00b (2926 posts) -

I think Age of Wonders 3 could work due to its relatively simplistic UI compared to other 4Xes. In the case of the Xbox One, you could use the kinect as your cursor.

#29 Posted by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

@Motokid6:

Your Caesar would like to correct your usage of "you're."

Carry on, citizen.

#30 Posted by Console_Caesar (46 posts) -

@Jankarcop said:

No, the console gamers just want fast 4-5 hour long auto-aim games.

And yet we have more AAAE games than the PC gamers, funny how the real world works. :-)

#31 Posted by Motokid6 (5639 posts) -

@xboxdone74: Ah, yes. Thank you. Sorry everyone. You're a little weirdo. That better?

#33 Posted by Funk21312 (39 posts) -

Halo Wars was great because it was actually designed for a controller and nothing else. Every other RTS for consoles were just ports and played pretty poorly.

#34 Edited by Heil68 (44615 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Consoles already have some very good turn based strategy games.

#35 Edited by Motokid6 (5639 posts) -

@console_caesar: How old are you XboxDone? If your above 18 you'd be best off lying and say your 12. This way it's understandable. If not then it's just pathetic.

Tell me... Do you know WHY Julius Caesar was assassinated?

#36 Posted by DaBrainz (7666 posts) -

Nope and this is the main reason I spend most my time on PC.

#37 Edited by ConanTheStoner (5413 posts) -

I youse strattegees wen I shot dem shoots at dem nobs in Coll uv duty.

#38 Posted by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

@Motokid6: Tell me citizen, do you know that the term "Caesar" does not only refer to Gaius Julius?

#39 Edited by Motokid6 (5639 posts) -

@xboxdone74: So which is it then?

Oh and why did you make an alt?

#40 Posted by SolidGame_basic (17725 posts) -

XCOM

#42 Edited by Jankarcop (9534 posts) -

@console_caesar said:

@Jankarcop said:

No, the console gamers just want fast 4-5 hour long auto-aim games.

And yet we have more AAAE games than the PC gamers, funny how the real world works. :-)

huh?

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

#43 Posted by donalbane (16347 posts) -

Consoles are home to the best strategy game I've ever played: Valkyria Chronicles.

#44 Edited by hotdiddykong (2048 posts) -

Just gonna put this out there, the Wii/Wii U's Wiimote+Nunchuck Combo control scheme has potential on Real Time Strategy, while not a real RTS, Pikmin 3 does it very well i just hope people can take advantage of it.

#45 Edited by jg4xchamp (48148 posts) -

RTS? no.

Turn based? yeah why not. I don't know about commercial success, but plenty of console strategy games have been successful. Usually fitting the strategy rpg mold ala Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Valkyria Chronicles, or more recently something like XCom Enemy Unknown(well aware that it's also on PC). So clearly a strategy game can be done on a gamepad, but it would need to be turn based. On the flip side a RTS game needs a full mouse/keyboard or else you get something that's completely shallow ala Halo Wars. Which blows chunks.

#46 Edited by no-scope-AK47 (2806 posts) -

Halo wars was fun but I felt like they could have supported kbam and made it much better.

#47 Edited by LordQuorthon (5338 posts) -

RTS, no. Turn based strategy games have been around on consoles since at least the NES days.

#48 Edited by blackace (20753 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

My friends, a few attempts have been made in earnest (Halo Wars) After revolutionizing shooting people genre, Halo essentially filliped the table over and said "no, this is console now". Since that day, the vast majority of a genre wildly believed to be that of the pc domain, are now primarily console built.

Do you think at any point, home consoles will have a Halo moment with strategy games? If not, why?

Some strategy games can play fine on game consoles. Halo Wars, Valkyria Chronicles. & Civilization all play good on game consoles. It can be done, but you need the right devs who know how to do it. It'll always be easier on the PC however. Keyboard and Mouse are just better for point and click strategy games.

#49 Edited by adamosmaki (9624 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

Alot of Hermits will use the "too complicated for a controller" card but in My Experience I think strategy game developers just suck at streamlining and accessibility. Its that simple.

I dont see how to streamline something like sins of a solar empire that has at least 20-25 frequently used hotkeys. I see no solution to something as simple as creating a group of units ( on keyboard you just hold ctrl + a number ) .

#50 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (13078 posts) -

@ adamosmaki

In that case I'd say that its shoddy Design. :p