(note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen)
We tend to define the generations as being devided by the kinds of gameplay mechanics that are developed and that can't be done on the earlier console. For example, Super Metroid on the SNES introduces many things that could never have been implemented in the original Metroid. The thing is, that over time certain reasons for this impossibility rise to prominence, overshadowing others - we tend to think the system's power increase is the reason gameplay advances, neglecting the advances in input methods. Fortunately, until now, the increase in power and in functionality have been roughly analogous, since the new generations were enourmously more powerful than the last. With this new generation, the difference in power is small enough that very little that is being done now would have been impossible before.
One major argument leveled against the Wii's next-gen credentials is that the Wii-mote is "gimmicky". Are L and R buttons gimmicky? Is the analog stick gimmicky? Is the D-pad gimmicky? No! You know why? Because they provide greater functionality and allow games to be played that couldn't be played without them. The Wii-mote is exactly the same, it allows for games that simply could not be done with older controller types. Even in existing genres that is the case! Look at SSX blur, which intuitively ads new moves that could not be done on a normal controller with anywhere near the ease (e.g. throwing snowballs). Look at Mario Galaxy! That has gameplay mechanics that would be harder to bring over to the 360 or PS3 than it would be to bring a GeoW forbidden it simply can only be done with the added functionality of a Wii-mote.
In the situation that currently exist, where there are two, possibly three, vastly different opinions on how video-gaming should advance. On the one hand, there is the continued focus on power, and on the other, the idea that we need to add greater functionality to the controller. I have to side with the Wii, I feel that it is the only true advance in terms of games on it being impossible last gen; 360 and PS3 have not (yet) proven this to be the case for them. Whatever your stance on this issue, one thing is for sure: We are ALL fanboys now.
any amount of logic u use wont help u in system wars. the lemmings and cows know as well as us that Wii is next gen they jus choose not to accept it. willful ignorance is intollerable
Im going to have to agree with everything you said about the wii, I believe its a grand system and a different kind of fun you cant experience on any other consoles. Im actually on a wii hunt at the moment. BUT I do think that the ps3 and 360 have proven their power- I meen, try to put Oblivion into a ps2, or xbox, or quit frankly a wii. You made good points in stateing that the wii is in fact next gen because of its new motion technology that was indeed a step up from the last gen and I really cant wait to get mine. Other companies need to start to understand that sometimes raw power gets a little old. While they are arguing about the next disc format, we tha gamers are waiting for games. Honestly, I feel that MS and Sony are getting too far ahead of themselves and should slow it down a little and focus on gaining what they need like exclusives for sony, and massive 3rd party support for both ends. I think nintendo is moveing in the right direction in this war and even more so with the VC( virtual console), brilliant idea on their part although over-priced but you pay for quality games right on your drive. Good post
Generation = measure of chronology, not measure of power.
The Wii is the successor to the GameCube from Nintendo. That alone makes it 'next gen'. The Wii is actually more powerful than the GameCube (although not the same leap the PS3 and 360 take). The Wii also attempts to innovate the manner in which video games are played.
"We tend to define the generations as being devided by the kinds of gameplay mechanics that are developed and that can't be done on the earlier console." no we don't next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware
Who cares? No seriously, call it "next gen" call it "new gen" call it "current gen" or call it "old technology" - the Wii is what it is. No matter how many time Nintendo fanboys call it "next gen", it won't ever be graphically in the same ballpark as the 360 / PS3 / PC. Sorry. We're getting to the point where little 320x240 videos and 640x480 screenshots downplay the differences between hd-graphics and sd-graphics, inevitably leading to threads spawning Pokemon Wii videos claiming "wii catching up graphically" but it's not - sorry, it hasn't and it won't.
At the same time, we're getting handfuls of PS3 / 360 / PC fans calling the Wii old technology, which is completely ignoring that Nintendo has produced something innovative in their $250 package. With only two games going for it the Wii is selling millions of systems, outselling the PS3 4-1 in Japan, et cetera. It's cheap, it's fun, and it's new - and that does a lot for it. Will it be our choice system in four years? I can tell you for certain it won't - Nintendo will have a new handheld that fans will focus their attention on, and the inevitable nature of the console market is such that hardcore gamers will be looking to DX11 PCs, the Xbox 720, the PS4, and the Nintendo HD or whatnot.
[QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardwareDanm_999
You're debating semantics. What's to debate? I have yet to see a console that has taken a step backwards in hardware capabilties over the previous one.
[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardwareRahnAetas
You're debating semantics. What's to debate? I have yet to see a console that has taken a step backwards in hardware capabilties over the previous one. Wii is weaker than the GameCube? And yes, you are debating semantics when you say generation means something other than it's literal meaning.
[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional.
[QUOTE="fedameda"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional. I never said it was new.
Im going to have to agree with everything you said about the wii, I believe its a grand system and a different kind of fun you cant experience on any other consoles. Im actually on a wii hunt at the moment. BUT I do think that the ps3 and 360 have proven their power- I meen, try to put Oblivion into a ps2, or xbox, or quit frankly a wii. You made good points in stateing that the wii is in fact next gen because of its new motion technology that was indeed a step up from the last gen and I really cant wait to get mine. Other companies need to start to understand that sometimes raw power gets a little old. While they are arguing about the next disc format, we tha gamers are waiting for games. Honestly, I feel that MS and Sony are getting too far ahead of themselves and should slow it down a little and focus on gaining what they need like exclusives for sony, and massive 3rd party support for both ends. I think nintendo is moveing in the right direction in this war and even more so with the VC( virtual console), brilliant idea on their part although over-priced but you pay for quality games right on your drive. Good postXprimeX
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, appeared on the Xbox. Oblivion is clearly a far better and more graphically impressive game, but the gameplay can mostly be done on older systems. Even games like Fallout provide similar freedom of choice for the player. The game is certainly made more fun and more imerssive by the graphics, but a version that is vastly inferior graphically, could be made.
Who cares? No seriously, call it "next gen" call it "new gen" call it "current gen" or call it "old technology" - the Wii is what it is. No matter how many time Nintendo fanboys call it "next gen", it won't ever be graphically in the same ballpark as the 360 / PS3 / PC. Sorry. We're getting to the point where little 320x240 videos and 640x480 screenshots downplay the differences between hd-graphics and sd-graphics, inevitably leading to threads spawning Pokemon Wii videos claiming "wii catching up graphically" but it's not - sorry, it hasn't and it won't.
At the same time, we're getting handfuls of PS3 / 360 / PC fans calling the Wii old technology, which is completely ignoring that Nintendo has produced something innovative in their $250 package. With only two games going for it the Wii is selling millions of systems, outselling the PS3 4-1 in Japan, et cetera. It's cheap, it's fun, and it's new - and that does a lot for it. Will it be our choice system in four years? I can tell you for certain it won't - Nintendo will have a new handheld that fans will focus their attention on, and the inevitable nature of the console market is such that hardcore gamers will be looking to DX11 PCs, the Xbox 720, the PS4, and the Nintendo HD or whatnot. subrosian
There is no point in arguing the points you have put forward, since they are theoretical. We could both be right. You cannot say with certainty, that the Wii will not be the hardcore choice in 4 years.
[QUOTE="fedameda"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional. no one is arguing that the Wii is a technological powerhouse, simply that it makes new gameplay possible that could never have been done last gen, therefore: it is next-gen (in the sense that it advances videogaming)
[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="xxKAMIKAZExx"]Wii is not next gen. Wii is current gen. So is the 360 and PS3. /thread. exactly! Thanks for not reading even the first line of my post where I say: "note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen"
Nintendo themselves said the wii isn't a next gen console. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152265.htm
[QUOTE="Kikouken"]THE WII IS OBVIOUSLY NEXT GEN BECAUSE IT IS THE SUCCESSOR TO THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE. /THREADtopgunmv
QFT. But that in no way is bad. I'd rather Nintendo focus on themselves than worry about the competition, thats why they decided to make the remote in the first place, they themselves have said they do not care how many systems MS or Sony are selling.
[QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="xxKAMIKAZExx"]Wii is not next gen. Wii is current gen. So is the 360 and PS3. /thread. exactly! Thanks for not reading even the first line of my post where I say: "note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen" The problem is that you're bringing up old issue's involving the wii and it's "next gen" status... The wii is said to be slightly more powerful than the original xbox.. That's not a gigantic leap but it still will be able to produce games(hopefully) that weren't possible last gen.. That and the inclusion of the wiimote makes it next gen.. or this gen.. Besides This argument was dead and buried and I say we leave it that way..
[QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="fedameda"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional. no one is arguing that the Wii is a technological powerhouse, simply that it makes new gameplay possible that could never have been done last gen, therefore: it is next-gen (in the sense that it advances videogaming) It should be a powerhouse. Do you think the 360s power is the main reason why the one with the hdd is $399. Do you think the PS3 power is the main reason why its a $499-$599 console. When you are actually honest with yourself. You see that the lack of power for price on the wii is so absurd. The idea that poor specs on Wiis part, should ever be used as an excuse is a even bigger joke. You take away blu-ray from 20gig ps3 you have a $299 console, same price as the Core 360 and the Wii is still a very underpowered console at $249. Lets not even add the $180 for controllers.
[QUOTE="ps3-nikita"][QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="fedameda"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional. no one is arguing that the Wii is a technological powerhouse, simply that it makes new gameplay possible that could never have been done last gen, therefore: it is next-gen (in the sense that it advances videogaming) It should be a powerhouse. Do you think the 360s power is the main reason why the one with the hdd is $399. Do you think the PS3 power is the main reason why its a $499-$599 console. When you are actually honest with yourself. You see that the lack of power for price on the wii is so absurd. The idea that poor specs on Wiis part, should ever be used as an excuse is a even bigger joke. You take away blu-ray from 20gig ps3 you have a $299 console, same price as the Core 360 and the Wii is still a very underpowered console at $249. Lets not even add the $180 for controllers. I agree with you on the price thing.. While I do believe the wii will come out with some truely outstanding titles that weren't possible on last gen systems.. ie a new Zelda.. I think that charging $250 for the damn thing is ridiculous... The Nintendo wii should be $159.99 USD IMHO..
[QUOTE="ps3-nikita"][QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="fedameda"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]" next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware You're debating semantics. hardly. The wii uses an architecture that roughly as old as a PIII. If you consider that new, you are dellusional. no one is arguing that the Wii is a technological powerhouse, simply that it makes new gameplay possible that could never have been done last gen, therefore: it is next-gen (in the sense that it advances videogaming) It should be a powerhouse. Do you think the 360s power is the main reason why the one with the hdd is $399. Do you think the PS3 power is the main reason why its a $499-$599 console. When you are actually honest with yourself. You see that the lack of power for price on the wii is so absurd. The idea that poor specs on Wiis part, should ever be used as an excuse is a even bigger joke. You take away blu-ray from 20gig ps3 you have a $299 console, same price as the Core 360 and the Wii is still a very underpowered console at $249. Lets not even add the $180 for controllers. Nintendo are a business... they want to turn a profit.... they are extremely good at doing this. If people feel they are gettign ripped off, then they shouldn't buy the system. I, however would rather have a system that is overpriced and offers new gameplay at $249 then a system that offers nothing I want that is a bargain at $599!!
[QUOTE="XboxUnderground"]"We tend to define the generations as being devided by the kinds of gameplay mechanics that are developed and that can't be done on the earlier console." no we don't next gen = 100% about graphics and hardware
[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="xxKAMIKAZExx"]Wii is not next gen. Wii is current gen. So is the 360 and PS3. /thread. exactly! Thanks for not reading even the first line of my post where I say: "note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen" The problem is that you're bringing up old issue's involving the wii and it's "next gen" status... The wii is said to be slightly more powerful than the original xbox.. That's not a gigantic leap but it still will be able to produce games(hopefully) that weren't possible last gen.. That and the inclusion of the wiimote makes it next gen.. or this gen.. Besides This argument was dead and buried and I say we leave it that way.. This argument is, unfortunately, far from dead, as made clear by the number of conflicting views expressed here. How many times per day does someone make a "The Wii is not next-gen!!" post? Ignoring an issue doesn't mean it goes away.
[QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="xxKAMIKAZExx"]Wii is not next gen. Wii is current gen. So is the 360 and PS3. /thread. exactly! Thanks for not reading even the first line of my post where I say: "note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen" The problem is that you're bringing up old issue's involving the wii and it's "next gen" status... The wii is said to be slightly more powerful than the original xbox.. That's not a gigantic leap but it still will be able to produce games(hopefully) that weren't possible last gen.. That and the inclusion of the wiimote makes it next gen.. or this gen.. Besides This argument was dead and buried and I say we leave it that way.. This argument is, unfortunately, far from dead, as made clear by the number of conflicting views expressed here. How many times per day does someone make a "The Wii is not next-gen!!" post? Ignoring an issue doesn't mean it goes away. Well the problem is that the wii just came out and it didn't come out swinging from a technical standpoint.. Same can be said about the PS3 but they both will get better with time..
[QUOTE="Metrovania"](note: I am using the term "next-gen" to denote the generational advance between this and the last gen. I am aware that all the consoles are current-gen)
We tend to define the generations as being devided by the kinds of gameplay mechanics that are developed and that can't be done on the earlier console. For example, Super Metroid on the SNES introduces many things that could never have been implemented in the original Metroid. The thing is, that over time certain reasons for this impossibility rise to prominence, overshadowing others - we tend to think the system's power increase is the reason gameplay advances, neglecting the advances in input methods. Fortunately, until now, the increase in power and in functionality have been roughly analogous, since the new generations were enourmously more powerful than the last. With this new generation, the difference in power is small enough that very little that is being done now would have been impossible before.
One major argument leveled against the Wii's next-gen credentials is that the Wii-mote is "gimmicky". Are L and R buttons gimmicky? Is the analog stick gimmicky? Is the D-pad gimmicky? No! You know why? Because they provide greater functionality and allow games to be played that couldn't be played without them. The Wii-mote is exactly the same, it allows for games that simply could not be done with older controller types. Even in existing genres that is the case! Look at SSX blur, which intuitively ads new moves that could not be done on a normal controller with anywhere near the ease (e.g. throwing snowballs). Look at Mario Galaxy! That has gameplay mechanics that would be harder to bring over to the 360 or PS3 than it would be to bring a GeoW forbidden it simply can only be done with the added functionality of a Wii-mote.
In the situation that currently exist, where there are two, possibly three, vastly different opinions on how video-gaming should advance. On the one hand, there is the continued focus on power, and on the other, the idea that we need to add greater functionality to the controller. I have to side with the Wii, I feel that it is the only true advance in terms of games on it being impossible last gen; 360 and PS3 have not (yet) proven this to be the case for them. Whatever your stance on this issue, one thing is for sure: We are ALL fanboys now. Or you could have just said "Because Nintendo released it as the sucessor to the gamecube."
[QUOTE="da1on2"] Or you could have just said "Because Nintendo released it as the sucessor to the gamecube." no need to be snide and dismissive. I was clearly talking about the "next-gen" as a concept built around advancement. Not chronologically.
THE WII IS OBVIOUSLY NEXT GEN BECAUSE IT IS THE SUCCESSOR TO THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE. /THREADKikouken
THE GREATSTATION 3 IS THE ONLY TRUE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE. IT FEATURES 4D GRAFIX, BLAST PROCESSING, CAN RUN TWILIGHT PRINCESS, GEARS OF WAR, HELLO 3, MASS FX, AND BIOSHOCK IN 1080P HDMI ALL AT THE SAME TIME ALSO WHILE PLAYING LUMINES AND A BLU-RAY MOVIE.
Nintendo does a great job of creating variety in their consoles IMO. When you think about it, Nintendo seems to rotate in terms of what their consoles offer. The NES was based more on innovation if anything, not visuals, because quite franquely the NES was outdated in terms of its graphics probably only 2 years after its release. However the innovative games and the design of the D-Pad and controllers is what probably appealed to most people. The SNES then relied more on visual power rather than innovation, the N64 then relied more on innovation with the analog stick, GCN revolved around visual power like the SNES, and now here we are starting the cycle again with Wii..... which relies on innovation. Its interesting really, but in my mind Wii is next-gen for sure, just as much as the NES and N64 were in their days
[QUOTE="Kikouken"]THE WII IS OBVIOUSLY NEXT GEN BECAUSE IT IS THE SUCCESSOR TO THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE. /THREADSuyomizzle_
THE GREATSTATION 3 IS THE ONLY TRUE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE. IT FEATURES 4D GRAFIX, BLAST PROCESSING, CAN RUN TWILIGHT PRINCESS, GEARS OF WAR, HELLO 3, MASS FX, AND BIOSHOCK IN 1080P HDMI ALL AT THE SAME TIME ALSO WHILE PLAYING LUMINES AND A BLU-RAY MOVIE. hahahaha, how can we compete against that?
[QUOTE="Suyomizzle_"][QUOTE="Kikouken"]THE WII IS OBVIOUSLY NEXT GEN BECAUSE IT IS THE SUCCESSOR TO THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE. /THREADMetrovania
THE GREATSTATION 3 IS THE ONLY TRUE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE. IT FEATURES 4D GRAFIX, BLAST PROCESSING, CAN RUN TWILIGHT PRINCESS, GEARS OF WAR, HELLO 3, MASS FX, AND BIOSHOCK IN 1080P HDMI ALL AT THE SAME TIME ALSO WHILE PLAYING LUMINES AND A BLU-RAY MOVIE. hahahaha, how can we compete against that? XD You are a good man. In all seriousness I think the words "next-gen" have been truly taken out of context by console war-ers. I believe the only thing that defines the generation of a console is the time of it's release, not it's hardware, software, or level of innovation. But if you are looking at those when deciding what is "next-gen" and what isn't I firmly believe that all three systems are next-gen, and anybody who says otherwise is... well, pretty wrong.
[QUOTE="Metrovania"][QUOTE="Suyomizzle_"][QUOTE="Kikouken"]THE WII IS OBVIOUSLY NEXT GEN BECAUSE IT IS THE SUCCESSOR TO THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE. /THREADSuyomizzle_
THE GREATSTATION 3 IS THE ONLY TRUE NEXT-GEN CONSOLE. IT FEATURES 4D GRAFIX, BLAST PROCESSING, CAN RUN TWILIGHT PRINCESS, GEARS OF WAR, HELLO 3, MASS FX, AND BIOSHOCK IN 1080P HDMI ALL AT THE SAME TIME ALSO WHILE PLAYING LUMINES AND A BLU-RAY MOVIE. hahahaha, how can we compete against that? XD You are a good man. In all seriousness I think the words "next-gen" have been truly taken out of context by console war-ers. I believe the only thing that defines the generation of a console is the time of it's release, not it's hardware, software, or level of innovation. But if you are looking at those when deciding what is "next-gen" and what isn't I firmly believe that all three systems are next-gen, and anybody who says otherwise is... well, pretty wrong. I actually agree... I only use next-gen here because there is no better term for differentiating the technology of the systems. I would call them all new-gen, because they are new, not next. But then people say "no, only Wii is new-gen"... can't win really. All I mean in the end, I suppose, is that the Wii deserves to be treated with the same respect as an equal player in the current generation than the others.
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