Why everyone ignores the issues in TLOU?

#101 Posted by mems_1224 (48337 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p said:

@mems_1224 said:

you're an awful cow. what happened to you?

He was never a good cow to begin with. lol

Yea but he was at least dedicated

#102 Edited by Speak_Low (1258 posts) -

The AI was not a problem for many though. It did not completely break the gameplay for me (most of the time we could still plan, lay traps, flank, shoot and "go Rambo" just fine with Tess or Ellie as our companion through 99% of the game, and over 20 hours of gameplay). If we died, was it really because Ellie/Tess got in our way and thwarted our plans, or was it because a Bloater and Clicker got to us like they should have? I don't think a majority of our deaths happened because of the AI, which actually did a good job of staying out of the way for the most part, and offering light assistance.

Also, when you think about it, the AI character really has no idea where your line of sight is, because you could be mentally pinpointing the location of multiple Clickers and Runners and looking intently at 4-5 various spots in a wide open area. All the AI knows is to stay close to Joel, and to stay behind cover when Joel stays behind cover. It doesn't know to stay out of your 2 o'clock or your 5 o'clock because there is no feature to let the AI know our multiple "cones of vision." Most third-person shooters like Gears, Uncharted and Tomb Raider don't have this problem because you aren't planning things out as elaborately (and silently) as you do in TLOU with a companion next to you. No one complained about Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite getting in the way because Booker did not have to plan a strategy or weigh the consequences in his mind regarding the number of Infected vs. the scarcity of his ammo/weapons.

Now, maybe Naughty Dog could've introduced a "Stay Here" option like we can do with companions in Mass Effect and Skyrim, but the problem with that is, when shit goes down or goes wrong (and a gang of insta-kill Clickers and Runners charge you), you don't have TIME to click on Ellie and tell her to "Stay Here" or "Move Now!" A huge part of this game is constant tension and fear hovering in the air - that's why you're forced to access your inventory in real time. The stakes feel remarkably higher here than in many other games of this genre because of this - and you can pay severely for some of your mistakes in strategical judgment or abilities (and why many liked what ND brought to the genre...this isn't Dead Rising).

As for the pop-in, I don't have TLOU:R and don't remember it in the PS3, so I can't talk about that much. But is there really that much in the game? Can you give me a percentage of this pop-in? Like does it happen all over the place in Spring and Winter, or are we talking about that one part in the Prologue?

Splinter Cell: Blacklist Wii U and Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze has crap ass loading times. It's hard to say whether the reviewers should deduct points (and if so, how many?) for these things. For some, they just live with it and it doesn't lower the overall experience. For others they can't stand it. I'm assuming the pop-in in TLOU is still a rarity and not enough for them to deduct 2 whole points from a review (there are games that are more technically broken, uglier and wonky as heck). I don't think reviewers are trying to sweep things under the rug. The totality of the experience and the high technical proficiency of the game is still above most games today. This would be like lowering the score of Star Wars: A New Hope for a couple Cantina puppets or TIE Fighter effects that look fake and not too good. If the audience immersion is completely lost and broken in these rare spots, then maybe we should be commending the artists for crafting such a high level of consistent immersion that's so brilliantly taut, where 2-3 frayed threads in the whole fabric is the worst of their mistakes. I almost expect cool sunglasses to lower down on ND's face at this point.

#103 Posted by handssss (1898 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

I have said the AI thing since last July. Also the fact that Joel and Tess take the escort job in order to get their guns back. But through beginning of the game they could have picked up many guns of the people they killed. Terrible hole.

the fireflies at the end of the game all had military grade assault rifles. weapons like this are more than likely what joel and tess were doing the job for. Throughout the game, most enemies usually only had pistols and pipes and barely any ammunition to spare.

Studying writing now. You are placing a hole fix that isnt confirmed for the writers. Thats not good. If a writer introduces something in their story they need to address its validity and conflicts, not have the audience come up with maybe

its not really a hole, you just weren't putting 2 and 2 together to get 4. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or shown, it just takes some common sense.

#104 Edited by cainetao11 (19110 posts) -

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

I have said the AI thing since last July. Also the fact that Joel and Tess take the escort job in order to get their guns back. But through beginning of the game they could have picked up many guns of the people they killed. Terrible hole.

the fireflies at the end of the game all had military grade assault rifles. weapons like this are more than likely what joel and tess were doing the job for. Throughout the game, most enemies usually only had pistols and pipes and barely any ammunition to spare.

Studying writing now. You are placing a hole fix that isnt confirmed for the writers. Thats not good. If a writer introduces something in their story they need to address its validity and conflicts, not have the audience come up with maybe

its not really a hole, you just weren't putting 2 and 2 together to get 4. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or shown, it just takes some common sense.

Thats not true at all. Its a Hypothetical construct of your imagination and poor writing.

#105 Edited by Shewgenja (10686 posts) -

When a game as buggy as Fallout 3 can score as high as it did, maybe the lesson of the day is that bugs don't matter to reviewers unless the gameplay sucks.

#106 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (18216 posts) -

@Shewgenja

If you look even closer you'l notice nothing matters at all to reviewers..... They have brushed off everything from story to gameplay and they will continue to do so.

#107 Edited by Speak_Low (1258 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

When a game as buggy as Fallout 3 can score as high as it did, maybe the lesson of the day is that bugs don't matter to reviewers unless the gameplay sucks.

I didn't even like Fallout 3 that much but it was playable from beginning to end. When you talk about HUGE bugs, glitches and game-breaking problems, they have to occur throughout a majority of the game, to an inexcusable point where you can't even go on (like a nagging pebble in your shoe bothering you every single step of the way, and the game is ruined in the first 3 hours).

Most of the bugs/glitches in Fallout 3/Skyrim are not that numerous. They're there, but the amount of them blocking your progress are exaggerated. Millions were able to complete these gigantic open-world games that contain literally hundreds of possible combinations of interactions/mission branching - it's difficult to squash every single bug/glitch with such vast open-world games. Has anyone seen the size of the finished Skyrim map and how many dungeons, houses, caves, towns and hideouts there are to encounter?

And I still haven't read anything about game-breaking bugs in TLOU. If pop-in equals bugs, then Ocarina of Time and many classic games must be the buggiest buggers ever.

Reviewers have been tough on severe, crippling bugs found in many games. Go to Metacritic and find the harsh reviews for shitty games at the bottom in red colors. You'll find what you seek.

#108 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

@joel_c17 said:

Fallout 3 got a 9 and it had more bugs than any other game in existence.

Skyrim would be another.

#109 Posted by CanYouDiglt (7607 posts) -

There is plenty of fanboyism for game reviewers and some also get caught up in the hype.

#110 Posted by EducatingU_PCMR (1071 posts) -

They don't mention it because they are die hard cows.

I thought TC was one, but I can see there's still some sense in him, he's one of the few cows that realize ND and Sony just scammed a bunch of idiots with this $50 "masterpiece remaster".

#111 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17469 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:

Not more pop ins, just more noticable in 1080p and the smoother movement thats all. They improved the geometric draw distance, but not object LOD distance. At least not by much. And they are very much using last gen shadow techniques with no umbra/panumbra. It's their PS3 part of the engine that isn't very scalable.

So why didn't they take some more time and improve the engine ?

After all, some people will spend another 50 dollars on this, shouldn't ND offer them more ?

#112 Edited by Pffrbt (6596 posts) -

TLOU has some pretty awful flaws, and none of them are petty graphics nitpicks,

#113 Posted by delta3074 (18764 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

didn't you argue the toss with me the other day because i said that the game wasn't perfect and deserved it's 8 score?

#114 Edited by sailor232 (5047 posts) -

Yeah games should be docked for its flaws, maybe a re-review later on down the track when these flaws are fixed or if they are not then no re-review necessary. For me and my friend that played TLOU on the Ps3 the bugs did break our immersion, plus plenty more other flaws I have mentioned tons of times in other threads. Game is a solid 7.5/10 for me because it's broken enough for that score.

#115 Edited by Gue1 (11178 posts) -

at least Corrinne Yu acknowledge that this is an issue while everyone else (ND, Sony, the media and fan-boys) are just turning a blind eye. The remaster has many more issues and even new ones that weren't present on the original PS3 version.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/08/01/naughty-dog-dev-explains-the-last-of-us-ps4-pop-in-bugs-and-promises-to-do-better-inspired-by-fans/

#116 Posted by WallofTruth (2003 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

Very true. IMO the game is a 8/10 and nothing more.

#117 Posted by Syn_Valence (1364 posts) -

Yet it's still better than anything xbone or pc has....keep the jelly alive

#118 Posted by handssss (1898 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

I have said the AI thing since last July. Also the fact that Joel and Tess take the escort job in order to get their guns back. But through beginning of the game they could have picked up many guns of the people they killed. Terrible hole.

the fireflies at the end of the game all had military grade assault rifles. weapons like this are more than likely what joel and tess were doing the job for. Throughout the game, most enemies usually only had pistols and pipes and barely any ammunition to spare.

Studying writing now. You are placing a hole fix that isnt confirmed for the writers. Thats not good. If a writer introduces something in their story they need to address its validity and conflicts, not have the audience come up with maybe

its not really a hole, you just weren't putting 2 and 2 together to get 4. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or shown, it just takes some common sense.

Thats not true at all. Its a Hypothetical construct of your imagination and poor writing.

Still going to have to disagree. The game so very clearly implies this. And even if they weren't military grade guns, it hardly matters. They already had 2 pistols, do you really think they needed more of the same types of guns that use the same ammo? They are only 2 people. No, even if we say the guns offered were mostly the same types of guns found throughout the game (rifles and shotguns) these weapons weren't found until after the motivation for the journey shifted.

The game doesn't straight up say that Bill is homosexual either, but there is enough hinting to allow people to come to that logical conclusion. It's hardly imagination.

#119 Edited by cainetao11 (19110 posts) -

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

I have said the AI thing since last July. Also the fact that Joel and Tess take the escort job in order to get their guns back. But through beginning of the game they could have picked up many guns of the people they killed. Terrible hole.

the fireflies at the end of the game all had military grade assault rifles. weapons like this are more than likely what joel and tess were doing the job for. Throughout the game, most enemies usually only had pistols and pipes and barely any ammunition to spare.

Studying writing now. You are placing a hole fix that isnt confirmed for the writers. Thats not good. If a writer introduces something in their story they need to address its validity and conflicts, not have the audience come up with maybe

its not really a hole, you just weren't putting 2 and 2 together to get 4. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or shown, it just takes some common sense.

Thats not true at all. Its a Hypothetical construct of your imagination and poor writing.

Still going to have to disagree. The game so very clearly implies this. And even if they weren't military grade guns, it hardly matters. They already had 2 pistols, do you really think they needed more of the same types of guns that use the same ammo? They are only 2 people. No, even if we say the guns offered were mostly the same types of guns found throughout the game (rifles and shotguns) these weapons weren't found until after the motivation for the journey shifted.

The game doesn't straight up say that Bill is homosexual either, but there is enough hinting to allow people to come to that logical conclusion. It's hardly imagination.

Ok I'll go with how writing is taught at the university level. Writer introduces it, it isnt up to the audience to fill the hole. Do I think they NEEDED more handguns? The implication I got was they were hustling or trading the guns, so why would you turn down any gun?

As for Bill it is concretely confirmed by the magazine Ellie stole. It clearly is a nude magazine with a man on the cover. That is the writer tying up, not leaving it up to the audience.

#120 Posted by intotheminx (866 posts) -

I thought this thread was going to address the bigger issue; TLOU being a interactive movie and not a actual game. Decent story though.

#121 Edited by PAL360 (27241 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k:

I read somewhere that the game only went to "full" development (don't ask me what does that mean) since february. Hopefuly the team have been working hard on Uncharted 4.

Anyway, im a few hours in, and i haven't seen any major bugs. Just some less smart friendly AI, here and there, but thats it. The game is incredibly polished, plays great and runs at almost perfect 60fps, though. I'm impressed.

#122 Posted by B4X (5660 posts) -

It's a great game?

#123 Posted by Mickeyminime (1153 posts) -

TLOU is still a very good game, i hear remasters do cause the odd little problem, but how can you remaster a game that looks perfect anyway

#124 Posted by handssss (1898 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1 said:

not a single review nor DF's analysis even mentions how many more pop-in are in the Remaster compared to the PS3 version. Or what about when NPC companions make a lot of noise or walk in front of enemies unnoticed? I know that was something ND did deliberately but even then it still breaks the immersion, yet everyone just rates the game with 10/10 when there are obvious flaws. And this is not nitpicking, this stuff happens very often, both the pop-ins and the AI stuff.

I have said the AI thing since last July. Also the fact that Joel and Tess take the escort job in order to get their guns back. But through beginning of the game they could have picked up many guns of the people they killed. Terrible hole.

the fireflies at the end of the game all had military grade assault rifles. weapons like this are more than likely what joel and tess were doing the job for. Throughout the game, most enemies usually only had pistols and pipes and barely any ammunition to spare.

Studying writing now. You are placing a hole fix that isnt confirmed for the writers. Thats not good. If a writer introduces something in their story they need to address its validity and conflicts, not have the audience come up with maybe

its not really a hole, you just weren't putting 2 and 2 together to get 4. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated or shown, it just takes some common sense.

Thats not true at all. Its a Hypothetical construct of your imagination and poor writing.

Still going to have to disagree. The game so very clearly implies this. And even if they weren't military grade guns, it hardly matters. They already had 2 pistols, do you really think they needed more of the same types of guns that use the same ammo? They are only 2 people. No, even if we say the guns offered were mostly the same types of guns found throughout the game (rifles and shotguns) these weapons weren't found until after the motivation for the journey shifted.

The game doesn't straight up say that Bill is homosexual either, but there is enough hinting to allow people to come to that logical conclusion. It's hardly imagination.

Ok I'll go with how writing is taught at the university level. Writer introduces it, it isnt up to the audience to fill the hole. Do I think they NEEDED more handguns? The implication I got was they were hustling or trading the guns, so why would you turn down any gun?

As for Bill it is concretely confirmed by the magazine Ellie stole. It clearly is a nude magazine with a man on the cover. That is the writer tying up, not leaving it up to the audience.

Now I'll go over things very carefully. First, playing by your rules of what you said a plot hole was.

The game establishes that the 2 are smugglers. They already have guns. (basic pistols) They want more guns from a man named Robert. Despite having several guards (all with weapons) none of them are using the guns the 2 want the introductory levels. They have the same damn guns as Joel and Tess. They use the same ammunition. The game establishes 2 things. The guns Joel and Tess are after is VERY valuable. Ammunition of ANY kind is valuable. You can ignore my prior points if you want, but it's very clear that Joel and Tess want weapons different to those found in these levels.

And if you STILL you want to get pissy just because you didn't explicitly see a damn visual of the guns sitting in that warehouse or have a character going into graphic detail that/d make /k/ go moist over what the guns are, that's on you. It's not a plot hole. By its basic definition, A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that creates a paradox in the story that cannot be reconciled with any explanation.

Also, It is only ever implied that Bill is gay even with the magazine. The magazine is no concrete evidence because it could have very easily been in the safehouse due to any previous occupant, given that this world takes place 20 years after a post apocalyptic event and every house in any location has been untouched. We know Bill was in a relationship with Frank due to his reactions upon seeing his body, the wording used to describe him, and the tone of his voice when talking about him.

#125 Posted by ominous_titan (797 posts) -

its probably last years top game , not perfect it deserved an 8 , far too much crouching and predictable encounters and poor variety of enemies. resident evil 4 is still a better game

#126 Posted by cainetao11 (19110 posts) -

@handssss: Well we are disagreeing on the hole. But listen to the dialogue in the car again regarding the magazine. It was Bill's.

#127 Posted by Snugenz (12747 posts) -

On a full playthrough of TLOUR i noticed pop-in like twice and once at the start of Left Behind. Apart from that, the wierd gamma issues and a few FPS drops were the only hiccups in a pretty solid port.

#128 Posted by GhoX (5262 posts) -

Found the original fairly average, and a remaster with better graphics is the last thing that would impress me.

#129 Edited by The_Deepblue (688 posts) -

@Pikminmaniac: If I recall correctly, you were pretty skeptical about The Last of Us before playing it. Glad you enjoyed it!

Personally, I am so focused on critiquing a game while I am playing it that my opinion of a game rarely changes between the moment I beat it and years down the line. That said, I do a lot of thinking about my experience, the game's flaws, etc before I score and review it. Sometimes I think flaws can be overlooked, even glaring flaws, so long as they don't completely or consistently break the experience. I mean, Skyrim is an excellent game. It makes you feel like an adventurer. But it was the best reviewed game of 2011 (I think), yet it was a hilariously buggy mess. A top 100 game for me, but the awful glitches and bugs were ignored and even praised by some critics.

Music on the other hand is different for me. As I change as a person, I hear music differently. So a lot of albums grow on me, and albums I once liked a lot become albums I love. It's unusual that I double-back and dislike an album I previously enjoyed, though. I am still able to appreciate the songs that the old me once appreciated, even if the new me doesn't as much, if I am making sense.

#130 Posted by madsnakehhh (14933 posts) -

The game is pretty fun despite that.

#131 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (18216 posts) -

@The_Deepblue

Makes Sense. Except in 2011 thats when Portal 2 and Arkham City were both released.... Much better Skyrim.

#132 Edited by dakan45 (18724 posts) -

For the same reason no one talks about the crappy ai and uber repettive campaign and awful aiming in the original cuz 10/10 best game ever keep the hype train going.

Sorry the lsat of us wasnt a graphically impressive game, killzone 3, uncharted 3 and god of war ascension looked better and so did most multiplats on pc.

Say something bad about the last of us and prepare for the thumbs down rage.

The last of us BARELY CHANGED edition does not run on 60 fps at all times, digital foundry said it goes down to 48 in one scene but hey 10/10 best gamer ever not remastered on 60 fps.

GOD the fanboysm over this game is too much.

#133 Posted by dakan45 (18724 posts) -

@Cloud_imperium said:

Because game journalism isn't the same as it used to be , many years ago . Now it is full of corruption , casuals and fanboys . Remember how IGN criticized health pick ups in The New Order , because it was "ancient" .?

TLOU is great game , I enjoyed it alot . Story telling is pretty good , even though setting itself isn't original . Gameplay wise , it is nothing special , that's why no one praised its gameplay in any review . But it is good enough for an action game . Overall I'll rate it 8.5/10 . Definitely not a 10 game imo .

Exactly the crap i read about he new order are hillarious, so the pickup system is ancient but when bioshock infinite did it, best game ever 10/10, not to mention the whole "runs out of ideas quickly" and bioshock infinite and TLOU do not? those games are uber repettive. Also in what world is a 11 hour campaign short? oh i forgot the game had no mp, so it must be bashed for that.

Seriously "critics" nowadays are people who started playing games in 2005.

#134 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (18216 posts) -

@dakan45

True... But I wonder sometimes if those morons are having more fun than we are... If ignorance is bliss then fanboyism must be a freaking blast ! :(

#135 Posted by dakan45 (18724 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: i wonder that too, sometimes its better to just enjoy a generic game and take pride on the high ratings and scream "no no no" on everyone who didnt like it as much. Also if they make a review...well take a look at gamespot on youtube, the review of TLOU has a huge dislike bar.

#136 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (18216 posts) -

@dakan45

Well The Popular games are not for me..... I keep trying hearing how awesome they are... GOTY this and Metacritic that..... its just not for me.