Why do dev's put tedious work in their games?

My example (feel free to skip):

I've been playing through Mario 3D Land for a couple weeks. While not a very hard game at all, I can appreciate how the game is paced. They throw environments at you that are sometimes new, and sometimes similar with added elements such as a short time limit, harder enemies, etc. They also ask you to explore each level to find 3 star coins, and to hit the top of every flagpole at then end of each level. Doing this can be hard if you're small, but is very simple if you have the tanooki suit, so it's like a reward if you reach the end of the level at full power.

Last weekend I finished the game. Or so I thought. I played all the levels in the normal and special world, I hit the top of every flagpole, I got all the star coins. But the last level didn't feel too last level-ey to me. So I looked it up. Turns out you have to complete every level with both Mario AND Luigi. And then you unlock the true last level.

Do you have to get all the star coins as Luigi? No.

Do you have to hit all the tops of the flag poles as Luigi? No.

Does Luigi control any differently than Mario? Doesn't feel like it.

So what's the point!? All I'm doing is going through every level as fast as I can to hit the flagpole. I'm not stopping to explore, defeat enemies, collection 1-ups (I have almost 300 the game is so easy). There is no added challenge. It feels extremely tedious- I'm spending hours to earn one last level that I could be spending playing other games, but I want to play every level in the game.

The point

I'm sure you can think of your own examples of games feeling tedious. Even great games can be tedious at times. Feel free to list your own examples.

So why do dev's do this? Are they trying to max out the number of hours you have to put in it? Are they afraid people will complain if a game is too short, so this is their way of extending the game? Do they feel you have to waste your hours to earn something in their game? Do they think it adds challenge?

I think it's a way to extend the game and make it seem longer than it really is honestly. Some games do it better than others, but most are guilty of it.

One person's tedium is another's addiction. Get over it.

It's a cheap way to make their games longer and I personally hate it. I'd rather play a shorter game that is fun the whole way through instead of a longer game that has tedious filler just to make the game longer.

It's called secrets. Some random dude decides he wants to beat the game as Luigi and at the end his weird fetish is rewarded with a weird secret.

I hate it when you got to search around a whole boring level for secret stuff, like intel. It's ok when secrets are on the minimap, like in far cry 3, 4.

Notice how he said addiction and not fun.

Doesn't sound like much of a secret then.

This sounds like a real extra, and not something within the confines of the main game.

Played assassin's Creed Unity this week and have completed the main mission but still have to do the collectibles to increase my Sync. the view point I got used to as it is the game's signature, but the chores of going to different districts just to collect the chests and other stuff gets old pretty fast.

depends on what you mean by "tedious".

There is polish, such as making fine details and adjustments to what some would consider acceptable work.

Then there are final additions, such as secrets, or maybe adding a hat to a character, or something like that.

I don't know, but I am thankful for the tedious nature of developers....most of the time.

Better to be tedious than hide all the secrets in the next issue of Nintendo Power.

I loved unlocking everything in that game, personally. Too bad you didn't. Playing the game again wasn't "tedious" for me. It was fun. I've completed that game like 3 times more after that as well.

Tedious is the sloth demon in dragonage origins or the Dimos puzzles fallout 4 far harbour but there's a mod to skip it.

Except he's right. Repeating the same thing over and over again is tedious, no matter how addictive it is. I can understand where he is coming from.

I would understand if Luigi controlled differently than Mario. Usually he jumps higher and slides a lot. If that's not the case than yeah I don't see the point either.

Artificial padding has been around in gaming for quite some time. It's nothing but an artificial way of getting a game to bleed out more game time so it feels like you're getting your money's worth from the game.

Ha man I guess I agree. I haven't finished the game yet.. Don't think I could be bothered to do it again with Luigi but I'll see what happens. Not played it in a while, but like others say, when things become a chore and not fun anymore, then I stop playing. I am currently collecting all the statues in windwaker, but I'm kinda enjoying it. Almost done.

Most addictions are birthed from something that is fun, or at least started so. Drugs? check. Shopping? check. Gambling? check. Sex? check. Many that enjoyed the first Crackdown will tell us that pursuing the orbs was addictive; when a game is overwhelmingly fun to play, you'll read posters say, "the new Zelda is crack". Your attempt fails.

That makes no sense. If you are addicted to the thing, it doesn't hit one as tedious. No addiction starts because the activity wasn't fun to begin with. Nobody develops an addiction to punching themselves in the balls. Drinking, Gambling, Sex? Yep. As I replied to another, some people will say "The new Zelda is crack". What are they trying to convey when saying this? That Zelda is both addicting to play as well as tedious? LOL

Tedious has multiple meanings one of which is repetitive. That's what OP meant when he said "tedious" as evidence by him pointing an example of doing the same thing he already did before. Your point about one's tedium being another's addiction holds no water as OP was obviously referring to repetitive tasks when he said tedious. So yes, some may find doing a thing over and over again addictive but it doesn't change the fact that it is tedious as in repetitive.

We're strictly talking games here. No idea why you're bringing sex and drugs in.

That's what OP is asking. Why do game devs pad their games with repetitive(tedious) shit? He's already finished the game with Mario and now he has to do the exact same thing with Luigi just to unlock a secret level? Undeniably some will enjoy going through the game a second time but it doesn't change the fact that you're basically forced to do a repeat of what you've already done to advance. That's OP's fundamental point. It has nothing to do with people's enjoyment of repetitive things.

For instance, I beat Dark Souls 3 times in a row with no break. I enjoyed it a lot but it doesn't change the fact that repeating the same game 3 times in a row is in a way tedious as in repetitive.

Best example I can think of is planet scanning in Mass Effect 2.... great game with this tarnish over it.

If you don't see the reason for using common addictions of drugs and sex to show how the vast majority of addictions begin from something that is considered a joyful experience, I cannot help you. Seems like a junior high school level piece of logic.

te·di·ous[ˈtēdēəs]

ADJECTIVE

1. too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous:"a tedious journey"

   synonyms:boring · dull · monotonous · repetitive · unrelieved · unvaried ·

   [more]uneventful · characterless · colorless · lifeless · insipid · uninteresting · unexciting · uninspiring · uninvolving · flat · bland · dry · stale · tired · lackluster · stodgy · dreary · mundane · monochrome · mind-numbing · soul-destroying · wearisome · tiring · tiresome · irksome · trying · frustrating · deadly · not up to much · humdrum · ho-hum · blah · dullsville · 'same old, same old'antonyms:exciting
2. Now I clearly see "repetitive" as a SYNONYM of tedious, not a definition of tedious because tedious is a description of how something hits, or makes one feel about something. Repetitive can be used in that case, but repetitive can also simply mean repeating with no connotation attached to it. I find shaving my face repetitive because I have been doing it for almost 30 years. But it isn't tedious to me. I find the searching for Orbs in Crackdown addicting and its obviously repetitive as it must be repeated since there isn't just ONE orb in the game. But I never found it tedious, whereas my brother did find it tedious. Tedium is subjective to the individual hence why I said one man's tedium is another's addiction.

Nice going completely ignoring the context of the OP's post and literally ignoring the entirety of it. Everyone understood what he meant and you obviously with your complete lack of perspective went to make an ass out of yourself by misinterpreting his entire post. Not surprised by that coming from you. Over 40 years old and still has the perspective of a 10 year old. Keep arguing semantics though. While everyone here understands where OP is coming from, you're arguing something that is completely besides the point.

I don't know of any game that doesn't get tedious. Even Solitaire in Windows can get tedious if I'm in the right mood.

For me, anything with swords and/or magic is tedious. I prefer to shoot stuff.

I can't get immersed if I see my character. When that happens, the game gets tedious. That's why my backlog of games collecting dust consist largely of 3rd-person games: MGS4, Mass Effect series, Heavy Rain, Alan Wake, etc.

Of course, that doesn't reflect on the quality of the game. It's simply my preferences.

Way to go dildo brain. Jumping to the conclusion that I didn't get what he was inferring because I made a simple observation that what the TC calls tedious may be addicting fun to another. Right, because TC's opinion on tedium is the be all end all. You have fun trying to insult me mental midget.

Dildo brain? How old are you lol?

Your comment was unnecessary and didn't address his post. That's why I called out your idiocy. You're the same cretin who time and again completely lacks perspective and is unable to see anything outside of his point of view. Everytime I see you post it's the same stupidity. Get a clue. Everyone in this thread more or less addressed the OP except for you who tried to be a smartass but ended up looking like an asshole instead.

It's called a timesink and is a mechanic used by lazy devs to extend the length of completing a game.

Some people like them. Why idk.

Maybe the devs were butthurt that no one wants to play Luigi.

Perhaps you didn't read his OP? The first line says:My example (feel free to skip):

Obviously he is telling us we don't have to read this.

In his point he goes on to say,

I'm sure you can think of your own examples of games feeling tedious. Even great games can be tedious at times. Feel free to list your own examples.

So why do dev's do this?

Maybe what I addressed was above your intelligence. I'll clarify. Why do devs do this? Maybe because not one developer in this industry is making games with just the TC's definition of Tedious in mind. Hence, one mans tedious is another's addiction. My post clearly points out if TC were a little more grounded and understood that rarely will all his needs be met by another person's creation, there would be no reason for this thread. The only purpose it serves is a whining chamber for "waaah! Why don't devs make their games satisfy ALL my wishes? Waaaah." Good talk, see you out there.

if they make the tedious or busy work at least fun i'm fine with it. Like some games make it so you have to level up but if the gameplays really good its actually pretty fun.

I really hate wandering around aimlessly in games though, i know some people like that but i like to have a way to navigate where i'm going. Sure it breaks realism having something like a quest marker but i'd rather just get onto things quickly and have fun.

@drummerdave9099: ... or you can just skip the tedious bullshit and watch somebody else do the last level on YouTube. I often do this for alternate endings or if I no longer feel like playing through the rest of a game.

Don't judge me!

lol

Something I can think of that is tedious but interesting is the scanning in Metroid Prime.

I just finished it a couple hours ago. I think it was worth it for the last level- a good challenge without being overly frustrating like 3D World's was.

I still think they should've have tried harder to make Mario and Luigi feel different. And maybe given them separate collectibles.

The Mario example isnt' so bad, because it's simply playing the game again. You don't really HAVE to do that, unless you really want to go for 100%. But then if you really love the game and want that 100%, playing through the game again shouldn't be a big deal. That isn't so much "tedious work" as it is requiring a replay.

Tedious work to me is more like fetch quests that you typically find in open world games or WRPG's. Right now i"m playing Final Fantasy XV and this game might have the worst fetch quests ever. "Go take a photo of this". "Go find a dog tag". "Go find 5 yellow frogs". "Go find 5 red frogs". Now do all of this 100 times. There literally isn't a point to it at all except to pad out the game with extra missions. I'm generally OK with some level of "fetch quest" design, but for god's sake at least make them seem like a natural part of the world, not just random %$@^ that was dropped in there.

I immediately thought of this when i read the thread title

@drummerdave9099:

It's a weird thing to complain about, isn't it? In this day and age, you'd be lucky if you can see a game past 5 hours! I think it's great if the developer WANTS to give you more bang for your buck!

Very, very true. If I like the activity, I can do it all day and people would wonder why. There's a related thread about how long games should be. If I like the activities in a game, I can pile up hundred of hours in a game and not feel bored. Yet, I can find a 6-hour game tedious if I don't like what I do in the game.

Griding, or grinding random loots is one of the most tedious thing to do. One of the main reasons why I quit playing MMOs a few years ago and never went back. Luck isn't fun, at least to me.

Games that tell you to do something 10-1000+ times. Like Fulton soldier one by one in mgsv.

Getting the collectibles in AC syndicate is a very tedious thing to do.Got boring pretty fast.

I doubt any developer intends to make their game tedious. Enjoyability is subjective at the end.

However, usually for narrative reasons, there are some games that make you do things that no sane human being would deem fun. Red Dead Redemption has you herd cattle a couple of times, whereas in Mafia 2 you're straight up loading boxes and scrubbing toilets. Shit like that is complete red flag territory.

I just wish they would've programmed different physics for Luigi than Mario, or added separate collectibles for Luigi. They weren't challenging me to earn that last level- just making me spend 3 hours going through all the levels again.

The problem is it isnt' really "bang for your buck" if they just make you do repetitive stuff over and over. Though at least most of it is optional. If you are playing GTA or Assassin's Creed you don't have to do the collectibles or easter egg stuff. Frankly I don't even get the point of it, since most people probably use a guide to "find" everything anyway. Yet, despite not understanding the point of it, I've probably 100% several dozen games that force you to do this to get 100%. So I guess I'm part of the problem LOL.

In either case, there is definitely a difference between "completionist" stuff, and games that throw a bunch of fetch quests into the main storyline. It's most offensive when they pad out the main story with stuff like that, and they do this to trick people into thinking they got a "bang for their buck". I see it more as a shortcut for developers to pad their game length. It's rarely a good thing IMO.

The only tedious work you should ever do is collect the Playboy magazines in Mafia3. Cause, you know... yeah!

Depends on what the repetitive stuff is. In Fallout 4 for example, I'm always strapped for cash and material used for building/modifying stuff. That means I often have to take up repetitive jobs so I can fortify my settlements. It's even more urgent now that the Brotherhood folks are pissed off and raiding my settlements.

I don't consider the repetitive tasks tedious because I can actually relate to it. I mean, home, family, work, classes......Same old repetitive crap day in day out. There isn't a day that is markedly different from the one before. ;) Ha Ha!

Padding fools E grade buyers into thinking the game is longer than it really is.