Why average review scores are useless.

  • 53 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
Gamerankings. People swear by it. While I like it as a source to find a collection of individual reviews and other information about a system, the average score is totally useless. Why? Because different scores mean different things to different sites. For example, at EDGE, 5/10 is average. But at GameInformer, 7/10 is average. So a 6/10 would be a good score for EDGE, but a mediocre score from GameInformer. But to Gamerankings, a 50% means a 50% no matter what, and it's always bad. If a game scores 7/10 from EDGE, it means they really like it, but if it scores 7/10 from GameInformer it means it's just okay. Gamerankings has no way to convey the difference. Gamerankings assumes that all sources grade on the same scale, and it makes a game like Killzone 2 (for example) look bad when one source gives it a score 20% lower than the average, but is trying to say the same thing about the game. Another example. At Giant Bomb, a 5/5 is the highest score. It doesn't mean that the game is perfect, but that's how it shows up on Gamerankings. But at Gameshark, an A+ signifies a 100% and perfect score. So a game that Giant Bomb thinks is flawed could still get a 5/5, because they didn't think the flaws in it would be enough to bump it down to a 4/5 (80%). So this game could actually be an 86%, a 99%, or anywhere in between. But to Gamerankings, a "perfect" review is the same as a game with "not enough flaws to have 20% taken away". Do you see what I'm getting at? And for a minute, let's go back and take a look at the letter grade system. A+, B-, D, etc. The system starts at 100 for an A+, and goes down by 5% for each score. So a game that scores a D is only 50%. When I think of a "D", I think of a score in the 60% range. A D- would be 60-63%, barely above an F. A D+ would be a 67-69%, barely below a C-. So that would leave 64-66% in the D range. Remember again that a 66% on some review scores would be considered good or above average, but since Gamerankings assigns a 50% to a D it's automatically bad. Consider this: Mario Kart Wii got a 3/5 from Giant Bomb. That's a 60%. They sounded like they rather enjoyed the game. So would someone who likes a game give it a 60%? No, because the 5 point scale doesn't translate to the 100% scale in the game industry. Conversely, they've handed out 17 5/5 scores in the past year or so. Do they think there have been 17 perfect games since June? No, because for them, a 5/5 doesn't indicate a perfect game. If you were a developer and your game scored a 5/10 from EDGE or Eurogamer, you wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't freak out either. If it scored a 5/10 at Gamespot, you'd be furious. The point here is that different scores mean different things to different sources, so to say that Sonic and the Secret Rings sucks because it has a 69% Gamerankings average is a bit ridiculous. To Eurogamer, 69% would be a well above average game. To GameInformer, it's below average. Instead of looking at a congregate score for games, we need to look at the scores individually and see what they mean to the people who wrote the reviews. Or better yet, forget the scores and actually read the reviews. Or taking it to the final step, make decisions based on what you like and not what some stranger on the internet thinks. There are too many differences between the letter grade scale, the ten point scale, the 100 point scale, the 5 point scale, the 4 star system, and the various other ways to rate games to combine them all into one system. It just doesn't work that way.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
if you got a better system i'm all for that
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
Also, another point to consider: at Gamerankings, every "main site" has the same weight placed on its opinion. So Play Magazine's opinion is on the same level as GameTrailers' or IGN's. Just something to think about.
Avatar image for MerisYaki
MerisYaki

967

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 MerisYaki
Member since 2008 • 967 Posts
You can't play scores.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
if you got a better system i'm all for thatst1ka
How about just making decisions based on what you think of the game, complimented by reading individual reviews, watching gameplay videos, discussing it on forums, and playing demos and rentals? I can usually tell whether or not I want a game long before it gets its first review.
Avatar image for nintendo-4life
nintendo-4life

18281

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 nintendo-4life
Member since 2004 • 18281 Posts
so here's a list of what's not important in SW: Sales because quality =/= quantity Single reviews because they are only one person's opinion. Average people's opinion because they don't effect other people's opinions. Review averages because individual reviews have different standards. ................... tell me something, what IS important in SW? :|
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
You can't play scores.MerisYaki
I don't think anyone here is claiming you can.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] ................... tell me something, what IS important in SW? :|

The opinions of the people who are here discussing the games, perhaps? Isn't that the point of a discussion forum? If I'm going to tell you that Custom Robo is a good game, I'm going to tell you what I like about the game and why, and back it up with facts, images, and personal accounts of the game. I'm not going to say "it's good because these other dudes say it's good".
Avatar image for thepwninator
thepwninator

8134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#9 thepwninator
Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts
Scores from different sources mean different things, but if all of those sources consistently review most games, then it is not completely inapplicable. Simply because two review scores mean different things doesn't mean that a comparison of averages that contains the two sources is an invalid means of comparison.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts

[QUOTE="st1ka"]if you got a better system i'm all for thatcolecoavenger
How about just making decisions based on what you think of the game, complimented by reading individual reviews, watching gameplay videos, discussing it on forums, and playing demos and rentals? I can usually tell whether or not I want a game long before it gets its first review.

my problem with individual reviews is that most of the ones i read are pure rubish, either nitpicking on small things or ignoring on all of it's problems. Gameplay videos don't really help you on some genres either. There are no game rentals in my country. And demos are very VERY misleading. The only one i agree with is discussing it on forums, but it's not enough

Avatar image for black_tempest
black_tempest

2459

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 black_tempest
Member since 2008 • 2459 Posts
so here's a list of what's not important in SW: Sales because quality =/= quantity Single reviews because they are only one person's opinion. Average people's opinion because they don't effect other people's opinions. Review averages because individual reviews have different standards. ................... tell me something, what IS important in SW? :|nintendo-4life
Companies going bankrupt, it seems :(
Avatar image for Heydanbud92
Heydanbud92

4464

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#12 Heydanbud92
Member since 2007 • 4464 Posts

so here's a list of what's not important in SW: Sales because quality =/= quantity Single reviews because they are only one person's opinion. Average people's opinion because they don't effect other people's opinions. Review averages because individual reviews have different standards. ................... tell me something, what IS important in SW? :|nintendo-4life

the only thing, the TC's opinion =/= SWs opinion. the vast majority think that metacritic and GR are the best way to get reviews

Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
Scores from different sources mean different things, but if all of those sources consistently review most games, then it is not completely inapplicable. Simply because two review scores mean different things doesn't mean that a comparison of averages that contains the two sources is an invalid means of comparison.thepwninator
Sure it does, because how are you to even know what to take the average score as? If your score is made up of many smaller scores that mean different things, then the whole is invalid. Let's say that every source but one says a game is a 7/10, and that it's average. Another source also says it's average, but gives it a 5/10. The game then has an average score in the 60% range, which is "below average" on the scale of every source but one. So the majority decides that a 60-something % game is below average, even though everybody who reviewed the game decided that it was exactly average. The game's reputation is then presented as worse than what every single source wanted it to be.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts

my problem with individual reviews is that most of the ones i read are pure rubish, either nitpicking on small things or ignoring on all of it's problems. Gameplay videos don't really help you on some genres either. There are no game rentals in my country. And demos are very VERY misleading. The only one i agree with is discussing it on forums, but it's not enough

st1ka
You just said that most reviews are rubbish. So why would a collection of rubbish reviews be any better?
Avatar image for Gaming_Guru_Guy
Gaming_Guru_Guy

485

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 Gaming_Guru_Guy
Member since 2008 • 485 Posts

I have the perfect solution to end review scores!

Every game should be required to have a demo out 2 weeks before release no exceptions! I think this would force developers to make much better games since most demos I play give me my fill of the game!

Avatar image for WAIW
WAIW

5000

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 21

User Lists: 0

#16 WAIW
Member since 2008 • 5000 Posts
I agree... Yet people still insist on comparing GS scores to aggregate sources. It makes no sense, but logic won't stop it.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts

I have the perfect solution to end review scores!

Every game should be required to have a demo out 2 weeks before release no exceptions! I think this would force developers to make much better games since most demos I play give me my fill of the game!

Gaming_Guru_Guy
Demos help, but they aren't enough alone. I've played great demos that turned out to be crappy games and crappy demos that turned out to be great games. Each game needs to be looked at on an individual basis.
Avatar image for thepwninator
thepwninator

8134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#18 thepwninator
Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts
[QUOTE="thepwninator"]Scores from different sources mean different things, but if all of those sources consistently review most games, then it is not completely inapplicable. Simply because two review scores mean different things doesn't mean that a comparison of averages that contains the two sources is an invalid means of comparison.colecoavenger
Sure it does, because how are you to even know what to take the average score as? If your score is made up of many smaller scores that mean different things, then the whole is invalid. Let's say that every source but one says a game is a 7/10, and that it's average. Another source also says it's average, but gives it a 5/10. The game then has an average score in the 60% range, which is "below average" on the scale of every source but one. So the majority decides that a 60-something % game is below average, even though everybody who reviewed the game decided that it was exactly average. The game's reputation is then presented as worse than what every single source wanted it to be.

But if everyone gives every game that is perfectly average a score they deem to be average, then all of the average games will have the same mean review score, thus simply making the average lower than what most people consider the average to be, yet still making a consistent score for "average" games.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
[QUOTE="colecoavenger"][QUOTE="thepwninator"]Scores from different sources mean different things, but if all of those sources consistently review most games, then it is not completely inapplicable. Simply because two review scores mean different things doesn't mean that a comparison of averages that contains the two sources is an invalid means of comparison.thepwninator
Sure it does, because how are you to even know what to take the average score as? If your score is made up of many smaller scores that mean different things, then the whole is invalid. Let's say that every source but one says a game is a 7/10, and that it's average. Another source also says it's average, but gives it a 5/10. The game then has an average score in the 60% range, which is "below average" on the scale of every source but one. So the majority decides that a 60-something % game is below average, even though everybody who reviewed the game decided that it was exactly average. The game's reputation is then presented as worse than what every single source wanted it to be.

But if everyone gives every game that is perfectly average a score they deem to be average, then all of the average games will have the same mean review score, thus simply making the average lower than what most people consider the average to be, yet still making a consistent score for "average" games.

But what is actually the average and what each source labels as average are two different things. The majority of sources list 7 at "average". If most sources consider that true, then so do most gamers who read those sources. So if the average score is lower than that, it is perceived to be a below average game against the wishes of the people who reviewed it.
Avatar image for thepwninator
thepwninator

8134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#20 thepwninator
Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts
[QUOTE="colecoavenger"][QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="colecoavenger"] Sure it does, because how are you to even know what to take the average score as? If your score is made up of many smaller scores that mean different things, then the whole is invalid. Let's say that every source but one says a game is a 7/10, and that it's average. Another source also says it's average, but gives it a 5/10. The game then has an average score in the 60% range, which is "below average" on the scale of every source but one. So the majority decides that a 60-something % game is below average, even though everybody who reviewed the game decided that it was exactly average. The game's reputation is then presented as worse than what every single source wanted it to be.

But if everyone gives every game that is perfectly average a score they deem to be average, then all of the average games will have the same mean review score, thus simply making the average lower than what most people consider the average to be, yet still making a consistent score for "average" games.

But what is actually the average and what each source labels as average are two different things. The majority of sources list 7 at "average". If most sources consider that true, then so do most gamers who read those sources. So if the average score is lower than that, it is perceived to be a below average game against the wishes of the people who reviewed it.

The point is that, yes, the mean score of a given game is lower, but so is the mean score of every single game you could use as reference. Therefore, it does not matter.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"]

my problem with individual reviews is that most of the ones i read are pure rubish, either nitpicking on small things or ignoring on all of it's problems. Gameplay videos don't really help you on some genres either. There are no game rentals in my country. And demos are very VERY misleading. The only one i agree with is discussing it on forums, but it's not enough

colecoavenger
You just said that most reviews are rubbish. So why would a collection of rubbish reviews be any better?

in the end the nitpickers and enablers. The biased against and biased for end up cancelling each other out (to a certain degree)
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
[QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="colecoavenger"][QUOTE="thepwninator"] But if everyone gives every game that is perfectly average a score they deem to be average, then all of the average games will have the same mean review score, thus simply making the average lower than what most people consider the average to be, yet still making a consistent score for "average" games.

But what is actually the average and what each source labels as average are two different things. The majority of sources list 7 at "average". If most sources consider that true, then so do most gamers who read those sources. So if the average score is lower than that, it is perceived to be a below average game against the wishes of the people who reviewed it.

The point is that, yes, the mean score of a given game is lower, but so is the mean score of every single game you could use as reference. Therefore, it does not matter.

Yes, it does matter. Because it doesn't even out like that. Consider this example: Gamespot thinks a 7 is "good" GameInformer thinks a 7 is "average" and EDGE thinks a 5 is "average" The actual average is 6.3, which is well below "average". Not one of the sources wanted the game to be represented as below average, but that game now is. It doesn't matter what the actual average game gets for a Gamerankings score, because the perception is different than reality. If every game for the rest of this month averages a 50%, then 50% becomes the new average. But Gamespot, IGN, GameInformer, GameTrailers, and 1up all still consider that score, based on their own stated review systems, bad. And if you follow all of those sources, then you too recognize a 50% as a "bad game". So even though the average game scores a 50%, it's still a bad score by all accounts in this situation.
Avatar image for thepwninator
thepwninator

8134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#23 thepwninator
Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts
[QUOTE="colecoavenger"][QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="colecoavenger"] But what is actually the average and what each source labels as average are two different things. The majority of sources list 7 at "average". If most sources consider that true, then so do most gamers who read those sources. So if the average score is lower than that, it is perceived to be a below average game against the wishes of the people who reviewed it.

The point is that, yes, the mean score of a given game is lower, but so is the mean score of every single game you could use as reference. Therefore, it does not matter.

Yes, it does matter. Because it doesn't even out like that. Consider this example: Gamespot thinks a 7 is "good" GameInformer thinks a 7 is "average" and EDGE thinks a 5 is "average" The actual average is 6.3, which is well below "average". Not one of the sources wanted the game to be represented as below average, but that game now is. It doesn't matter what the actual average game gets for a Gamerankings score, because the perception is different than reality. If every game for the rest of this month averages a 50%, then 50% becomes the new average. But Gamespot, IGN, GameInformer, GameTrailers, and 1up all still consider that score, based on their own stated review systems, bad. And if you follow all of those sources, then you too recognize a 50% as a "bad game". So even though the average game scores a 50%, it's still a bad score by all accounts in this situation.

Look one post above yours :P And I still stand by my emphasis on reference points. The games most people look at averages for are within the 75-95% range, and, because this is a (relatively) small frame of reference, most people compare those scores to those of other games they've played before.
Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
that's why we decided a long time ago to just use gamespot's scores.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
[QUOTE="thepwninator"] And I still stand by my emphasis on reference points. The games most people look at averages for are within the 75-95% range, and, because this is a (relatively) small frame of reference, most people compare those scores to those of other games they've played before.

Review sources come and go all the time. They change their scales, go out of business, redesignate what a score means. New sources start up all time time, too. Just like Gamespot used to consider a 10 "perfect" but now it's "prime". So can you look at GTA IV the same way as Ocarina of Time? Your logic would only hold if every source reviewed the same games and kept the same standards throughout its existence. And I still maintain that followers of specific sites hold true to the scales of said sites. That's why people went nuts on Gamespot when EDGE gave Killzone a 7. And if a Gamespot user goes to Gamerankings and sees a game with a score that Gamespot defines as below average, that game isn't going to be treated fairly regardless of if it's close to the real world average.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
that's why we decided a long time ago to just use gamespot's scores.CaseyWegner
how long ago was that decision made?
Avatar image for waffle57
waffle57

1307

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 waffle57
Member since 2008 • 1307 Posts

[QUOTE="st1ka"]if you got a better system i'm all for thatcolecoavenger
How about just making decisions based on what you think of the game, complimented by reading individual reviews, watching gameplay videos, discussing it on forums, and playing demos and rentals? I can usually tell whether or not I want a game long before it gets its first review.

I think you're missing the entire purpose of review scores.

A person has a finite amount of time and money. If they were to buy every single video game that looked mildly interesting, they'd go broke, and end up with a bunch of crap.

If they took your approach, custom reserach every single game, they'd simply run out of time to play video games.

The point of review scores is for give an at a glance indicator whehter the game is worth a second look or not.

Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]that's why we decided a long time ago to just use gamespot's scores.st1ka
how long ago was that decision made?

many years ago.

Avatar image for CrazyyyDylan
CrazyyyDylan

726

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#29 CrazyyyDylan
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
I have always wanted them to utilize the entire 10 point scale. It seems to me that that would make a whole lot more sense. For example a 5/10 is average, its not a bad game, or a great game its just in the middle. Then everything from a 6/10 is above average. If they utilized the entire scale it would make considering what games to buy much easier. A lot of the review sites only use about 5/10 review points, this makes almost all the games except 8 and up seem about on equal ground, but if they used the entire scale the good games would shine from the bad.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
that's why we decided a long time ago to just use gamespot's scores.CaseyWegner
I'm not suggesting a fundamental shift in the way System Wars forum users handle their little "ownage bets". I'm suggesting to people in general that Gamerankings is a flawed method of helping decide purchases and the general feeling about a game in the industry as a whole. Gamespot scoring a game a 6.5 is fine for Gamespot users, but if most other sources think the game is perfect then Gamespot is not an accurate representation of how editors in general feel about the game. And using Gamespot alone opens up a whole new can of worms. I realize that I'm on Gamespot's site, but to me the forum is separate from the editorial quality. Even before the Jeff Gerstmann scandal, Gamespot lost its credibility. Years before I registered, Gamespot caved in to pressure from whiney fans and changed the score of Shenmue without changing the text of the review. Once a source compromises its standards, it becomes obsolete. The Gerstmann scandal only compounds it, and I don't think we even need to go into that whole situation.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]that's why we decided a long time ago to just use gamespot's scores.CaseyWegner

how long ago was that decision made?

many years ago.

was this decision voted by the users?
Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="st1ka"] how long ago was that decision made?st1ka

many years ago.

was this decision voted by the users?

it was. yes.

Avatar image for ZZsharpshooter
ZZsharpshooter

322

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33 ZZsharpshooter
Member since 2009 • 322 Posts
I wish reviewers would stop giving it numeral scores, and just discuss their thoughts on the game. I don't believe there is a difference between 9.4 and 9.5.
Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

many years ago.

CaseyWegner

was this decision voted by the users?

it was. yes.

So then decisions made by our predecessors are irreversible? Cannot the Supreme Court reverse a decision of a previous Court?
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

many years ago.

CaseyWegner

was this decision voted by the users?

it was. yes.

And percentage wise how many of those voters would you estimate that are still around these days?

Avatar image for colecoavenger
colecoavenger

174

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 colecoavenger
Member since 2009 • 174 Posts
I wish reviewers would stop giving it numeral scores, and just discuss their thoughts on the game. I don't believe there is a difference between 9.4 and 9.5.ZZsharpshooter
I agree, but marketing gets in the way here. Publishers like putting "10/10 from IGN" on the cover of their games.
Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="st1ka"] was this decision voted by the users?st1ka

it was. yes.

And percentage wise how many of those voters would you estimate that are still around these days?

i have no idea.

Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

it was. yes.

CaseyWegner

And percentage wise how many of those voters would you estimate that are still around these days?

i have no idea.

would you say 30% is a fair number?if not what about 50%?

Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

And percentage wise how many of those voters would you estimate that are still around these days?

st1ka

i have no idea.

would you say 30% is a fair number?if not what about 50%?

i have no idea.

Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

i have no idea.

CaseyWegner

would you say 30% is a fair number?if not what about 50%?

i have no idea.

Fine, but am i right to assume that at least a certain number of users have left or have been banned? Am i also right to assume that over these "many years" new users have registered whose opinions may differ?

If you agree with this wouldn't you say it may be time to create a new referendum on this rule?

Avatar image for ZZsharpshooter
ZZsharpshooter

322

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 ZZsharpshooter
Member since 2009 • 322 Posts

[QUOTE="ZZsharpshooter"]I wish reviewers would stop giving it numeral scores, and just discuss their thoughts on the game. I don't believe there is a difference between 9.4 and 9.5.colecoavenger
I agree, but marketing gets in the way here. Publishers like putting "10/10 from IGN" on the cover of their games.

Ugh, what a mess.

Avatar image for thepwninator
thepwninator

8134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#42 thepwninator
Member since 2006 • 8134 Posts
[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

would you say 30% is a fair number?if not what about 50%?

st1ka

i have no idea.

Fine, but am i right to assume that at least a certain number of users have left or have been banned? Am i also right to assume that over these "many years" new users have registered whose opinions may differ?

If you agree with this wouldn't you say it may be time to create a new referendum on this rule?

I agree. The time for such a referendum, IMO, has come.
Avatar image for st1ka
st1ka

8179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

i have no idea.

thepwninator

Fine, but am i right to assume that at least a certain number of users have left or have been banned? Am i also right to assume that over these "many years" new users have registered whose opinions may differ?

If you agree with this wouldn't you say it may be time to create a new referendum on this rule?

I agree. The time for such a referendum, IMO, has come.

i mean how hard could it be? sticky a thread with a poll for a week or so and after the dealine's passed just lock it. If this rule was created "many years" ago as casey said i think it only reinforces the idea that we need a new referendum

Avatar image for SUD123456
SUD123456

6949

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#44 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6949 Posts

[QUOTE="thepwninator"] And I still stand by my emphasis on reference points. The games most people look at averages for are within the 75-95% range, and, because this is a (relatively) small frame of reference, most people compare those scores to those of other games they've played before.colecoavenger
Review sources come and go all the time. They change their scales, go out of business, redesignate what a score means. New sources start up all time time, too. Just like Gamespot used to consider a 10 "perfect" but now it's "prime". So can you look at GTA IV the same way as Ocarina of Time? Your logic would only hold if every source reviewed the same games and kept the same standards throughout its existence. And I still maintain that followers of specific sites hold true to the scales of said sites. That's why people went nuts on Gamespot when EDGE gave Killzone a 7. And if a Gamespot user goes to Gamerankings and sees a game with a score that Gamespot defines as below average, that game isn't going to be treated fairly regardless of if it's close to the real world average.

1. In most expected probability distributions for a product like game reviews, a mean average from a sample of 30+ reviews is more likely to represent a proxy for how most people will react than a single review. This is because any single review could be an outlier.

2. Related to number 1, the aggregators also show you the individual components that made up the average. Therefore, it is relatively easy to spot the standard deviation and the general shape of the distribution. We do this intuitively without having to know anything about statistics just by scanning the scores, are they mostly the same with a few outliers...or are they all over the map?

3. Related to number 2, based upon your experience you can generally judge certain sites to be more or less reflective of your general standards. Therefore, you can focus on the 3,4,5 or whatever sites that you trust the most.

4. All the comments you have made about the potential shortcomings of an aggregate score also exist for any single site/score + more, BUT

5. The reasons/merits of why we stick with GS scores are 3 fold: this is GS and it enhances a sense of community, a single benchmark reduces the bickering (compared to the inevitable extra bickering if multiple benchmarks are used), a single benchmark triggers at a singular moment in time (when the review is posted).

Avatar image for munu9
munu9

11109

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#45 munu9
Member since 2004 • 11109 Posts
A lot of your logic doesn't fully agree. I don't like how you said would you gave a game like that a 60%? Obviously I would if I thought it was enjoyable but average. Since even a 5/10 can be average in your words. I don't think it's as flawed as you say. Those slight variations in how sites rate it tend to balance each other out. Like if a game is a solid 9.0 Some 5/5 raters will give it a 5/5 and some will give it a 4/5, giving it a 9.0 mean score. As for sites that use different numbers to mean different things, they can only do that to a certain extent. They can't as a 3/10 is an average game to them. At most the difference in the same score is not more than 1.0 (I doubt a 5/10 is average in EDGE, it's more like a 6/10) Though I guess that still creates a lack of complete accuracy but it does give a very good ballpark estimation. Definitaley not something exact to the single percet or 1/10 of a percent, but in terms of 9/10 or 8/10. Average scores ARE pretty good tools to judge a game.
Avatar image for Senor_Kami
Senor_Kami

8529

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#46 Senor_Kami
Member since 2008 • 8529 Posts
[QUOTE="st1ka"]if you got a better system i'm all for thatcolecoavenger
How about just making decisions based on what you think of the game, complimented by reading individual reviews, watching gameplay videos, discussing it on forums, and playing demos and rentals? I can usually tell whether or not I want a game long before it gets its first review.

How is that any different than doing exactly what you said but using an aggregate review site like Metacritic, which normalizes reviews (fixes the issue you bought up in your original post)?
Avatar image for CaseyWegner
CaseyWegner

70114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
[QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

Fine, but am i right to assume that at least a certain number of users have left or have been banned? Am i also right to assume that over these "many years" new users have registered whose opinions may differ?

If you agree with this wouldn't you say it may be time to create a new referendum on this rule?

st1ka

I agree. The time for such a referendum, IMO, has come.

i mean how hard could it be? sticky a thread with a poll for a week or so and after the dealine's passed just lock it. If this rule was created "many years" ago as casey said i think it only reinforces the idea that we need a new referendum

aka "it's not working in our favor anymore so let's change it." that's what too much of it would be.

Avatar image for nitekids2004
nitekids2004

2981

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48 nitekids2004
Member since 2005 • 2981 Posts
I think an average of IGN and Gamespot would yield a better result than relying solely on 1 review.
Avatar image for killerfist
killerfist

20155

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#49 killerfist
Member since 2005 • 20155 Posts
There's nothing wrong with average view on a game. But people tend to look at the percentage only rather than each individual review and score.
Avatar image for Gxgear
Gxgear

10425

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50 Gxgear
Member since 2003 • 10425 Posts

You look at the score, read the reviews, make your own judgement, then compare against the score.

Not very difficult.