To naysayers of 4k

The difference between 720 and 1080 visually is much greater than 1080 and 4k. More is nice but not absolutely required. Me personally have never really liked 720p being a PC gamer, it's not unplayable but it's not great especially on bigger displays, 1080p was quite the upgrade for PC also widescreen made all the difference as well. I just not see that much of a pull for 4k for at least 3 years maybe more.

1080p for a lot of people is good enough, if in 4 years time they sell a 4k display at the same prices as 1080p in the last couple of years then they might have a sale though...

4k is a gimmick and always will be. It looks identical to 1080p which already looks identical to 720p to some people. Then we have the fact that such high res will make everything look ultra tiny on your PC which will force you to zoom in and that will defeat the purpose of the resolution. Then the fact of the lack of content and delivery format just when people are finally ditching out DVD's for blu-ray they'll need a new format or much higher internet bandwidth. On top of this the 1080p TV's will only get cheaper and cheaper and that's what the masses will keep buying for years to come. And 1 last thing, 4k is a waste of resources for games. With better AA solution and more polygons resolution becomes redundant.

Pretty much. Until they have 60 in 4k TVs for under $600, they're not going to take off.

$700 for a 28" monitor will always be viewed as expensive while you can get a 50" 1080p TV for that same price (or less). Outside of niche of hardcore PC gaming, 4k will always be a "gimmick" until there is television programming and console hardware that takes advantage.

Especially if you're sitting close. I gather with 4K it would only be useful if you have a really big screen from a distance away.

The problem is you and everyone else seem to be ignoring all other aspects of picture quality. Go compare a 32 dynex 1080p tv to a 32 inch OLED 1080p tv. OLED tv will blow it out of the water in terms of picture quality despite being the exact same resolution. Things like black levels, color reproduction, contrast ratios, screen uniformity and viewing angles are all very important to a display, much moreso than 4k is for most purposes. Most people arent going to be able to notice the difference between 1080p and 4k tvs under normal viewing conditions (monitors may be a different story), but all the other aspects of picture quality i mentioned are extremely noticeable from any distance on any size display. Generally speaking most of the 1440p displays people love to brag about have pretty garbage black levels and contrast compared to mid ranged HDTVs. Higher resolution is only better if you arent compromising other aspects of PQ in the process. People just love to get boners about resolution because its easy to quantify and easy to understand for average consumers, thus its heavily marketed and the average joe is a sucker for marketing.

The reason the Mac book pro Retina looks better is because its an IPS panel with greatly improved black levels, contrast, color reproduction and viewing angles, while the standard macbook pro is just a cheapo TN panel. Of course since they generally rely on the resolution for marketing, it causes lots of people to assume the increased quality is a result of the resolution vs the fact that its just a much better quality panel in general, despite the resolution.

"HDMI inputs" was in one of the logos. HDMI is a gimmick?

Meaning of words change over time but to me a gimmick is a feature that attracts attention but adds nothing to the functionality. Wiki has it right:

In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature.

For example, toothbrushes are often given various gimmicks, such as bright colors, easy-grip handles, or color-changing bristles so they appear more exciting to consumers

Calypso must think it is. I have no idea when that model of tv came out. Pretty much everything has HDMI now, though. People just assume they are getting HDMI, just like they assume they are getting HD. 4K is not at that level yet. It is still a marketing gimmick, and going off the wiki definition, has little relevance or use. You can't buy a 4K movie. You can't watch 4K tv. You can't game in 4K unless you have spent thousands of dollars on your rig.

Some people? If you're calling something a gimmick based on how useful it is to people shouldn't the resolutions be identical to most or all?

Future os's will have text and icon size options for higher res.

Masses aren't buing 720p anymore, in 10 years 1080p tv's will be scarce.

Even 1080p tv's look pixelated at 60 inch plus sizes unless your sitting 15 ft away but then that defeats the purpose of having such a large tv.

Netflix and Amazon streaming subscribers don't need a new format. Also console, cable and sat companies will surely have ppv in 4k soon as well. Direct tv has already stated they expect 4k programming by 2016.

Better aa solution is redundant at 4k res.

From trusted reviews.com:

Having so many more pixels to play with than you get with normal HD screens allows the screen to resolve detail much further into the distance of large-scale images, making the depth of field seem much greater and the sense of space in the image much more realistic and engaging. It’s because of this effect that people sometimes describe 2D 4K as feeling like 3D.

@Cranler: So basically, 4K is a useless gimmick today, but manufacturers are using it to sell monitors/tvs to people based upon speculation of programming/media that may be available sometime in the future.

Why would Calypso think of their features as gimmicks? Maybe their idea of a gimmick is the same as wikis.

4k players are out and have been out since the first 4k tv's hit the market. https://store.sony.com/4k-ultra-hd-media-player-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players

Useless feature to those that don't have 4k players but that doesn't make it a gimmick. An example of a tv gimmick would be a bevel that changes colors.

To all the naysayers: do not interfere

4K. LOL.

It's the new 3D TV. Both are holder places until OLED is mass produced. Although, I suppose a 4K OLED would be super sweet.

No, that's precisely the purpose of having a TV that large.

Watching tv may be ok but gaming 15 ft from a 60 inch tv? Lol!

It's not he price of 4k Tv's and monitors that's the problem. It's the price of hardware that is capable of pushing that resolution and the bandwidth necessary for content to be broadcast at that resolution. I spent over $2000 on a gaming PC that cannot max all games at 1440p. You can forget about PS4 and Xbox One running the AAA titles of today at 4K let alone something like 1440p. On the TV side Direct TV only broadcasts it's pay per view channels in 1080p, the rest is 1080i or 720p depending on the channel. Dish Network and cable broadcasts even less.

Direct tv and Comcast are working on apps for Samsung tv's. Netflix 4k is supposed to be rolling out later this year.

Luddites everywhere

4k for $700? Now 1080p is a blurry mess!!! Right @silversix_

I don't think I have seen a thread with as much shit in it as this one. Whoever has seen 4k in action and says you can't notice a difference is either broken in the eyes or just butt hurt because they have no chance in hell experiencing it anytime soon because they bought a POS console and can't afford a new TV.

In 10 years when it becomes a standard, YES, right. Wouldn't be surprised if playing games like infamous SS in 480i isn't a mess to you.

@silversix_: as long as the game is fun. Amazing how your eye sight degrades with "standard" change. Others having power over your eye sight is such a rare affliction.

you always say this. Is the game becoming worst in higher resolution? No. It improves your experience. And its not like a 1080p tv/monitor cost 5k... Lowering your standards because your primary system can't handle standard resolution since ~09 is sad.

@silversix_: so I should just stop gaming on my ps3 then also? If "standards" are giving you less options to have fun, enjoy life, what exactly is positive about that? I couldn't imagine the look on my nephew's face if I told him nope, can't play that, its not 1080p. What a ridiculous, close minded example to give an 8 year old.

I fully support 4K as does the Xbox One.

Why do you bring a ps3 into this? The thing is 8y old... im talking about next gen brah, you know the system(s) that are supposed to get a jump from last gen? The jump on X1 is from 720p to 792p /yay. Seeing how poor the jump is, you accept it and bring on bullcrap with the '1080p isn't needed, 720p good enough, bla bla bla' while since 09 1080p was kinda needed but we couldn't get it because MS/Sony decided to make the longest and most boring gen ever seen.

Uh, as some one who has worked with professional calibrators you don't have to tell me that, I already know.

Resolution isn't the most important part of picture quality, it is the contrast ratio, followed by colour accuracy. And out of the two, deeper black levels is a whole lot more important than brighter whites. This is why a Panasonic plasma from 2013, for instance the VT60 or ZT60 will absolutely destroy any 1440p PS monitor from Dell/HP/NEC, Macbook Retina, or 4K LED TV from 2014 in terms of picture quality, the deeper black levels by far out weigh the resolution gain, not to mention the lack of 4K content.

I don't even know why you'd get the impression that I was ignoring the other aspects of picture quality, I specifically said that you shouldn't judge 4K displays by a Seiki TV (which has horrible black levels, terrible colour reproduction, view angles, clouding and so on) and every exemplary display I chose does indeed check off the other points of picture quality (the Sony VPL-VW1000ES aces EVERY aspect) and the Macbook Pro Retina display is as you say - IPS. reference level of colour performance, but awful black levels which makes it less prominent for movies, but more so for photography, web-browsing, and so on.

Who said 4K was a gimmick? Console plebs that won't ever play a game in 4K for the next 20 years?

for TV not worth it..not many 4k contents..when there's more contents or it becomes the norm then yea it will be even cheaper..much like 1080p...usually tend to wait till contents becomes norm. :P

I believe the Playstation 5, Super Wii and (Xbox Two?) will games in 4K resolution. Of course hardcore hermits will have moved onto 8K resolution by that time (c. 2020) - NHK/Panasonic/JVC have been working with 8K for more than 5 years now so...

I have seen some 4k tvs in store and i am not that blown away. Do they look better then 1080p why yes they do.... but going from 480i 4:3 to 1080p 16:9 was a massive change. 5 times the res a new screen shape and twice the fps over interlacing.

This time only thing we get is 4 times more pixels. You will need a massive tv to take advantage of it. In fact if you have a 50 inch tv you must sit 1 meter (3 feet) away to get the full advantage. meaning you will need to go huge and its not going to be cheap. There are so many pixels on the screen now the human eye cant take advantage of it unless you are very close.

On top of all this most tv channels are still 480i and many HD channels are 720p/1080i not even full HD. So little content will be out for 4k its a waste of time right now and for the near future. Blu ray does not support it right now and consoles cant game at that res as well. Unless you got like two r9 290x in your pc you wont be gaming in 4k

8K TV's, the ultimate gimmick.

Because my PS3 displays in 720p. Isnt that blurry mess? My X1 displays Forza 5 in 1080p, so I guess it can do it. Since 2009 huh?

#59 Posted by silversix_ (12406 posts) - 2 years, 9 months ago

Probably but at least games will run in 720p and not a blurry mess Wii has right now.

That's your post in mid 2011. Why was 720p good enough when you say the standard is 1080p and been so since 2009? You never answer my questions. Why does an image become blurry to you when some other people say "(insert resolution here) is the standard"? It doesn't become blurry, you're a liar, and a slave to what others decide.

You keep repeating yourself by digging what was said years ago. if you'd ask me if i was okay with 720p in 07 i'd say yes because 1080p wasn't the standard. Wake up dude.

But that clearly wasn't from 2007. It was mid 2011. Fine, you were ok with 720p in 2007, and evidently in 2011 after the so called standard became 1080p. My question still remains: why does an image become blurry mess, when something else becomes standard? The higher resolution is crisper no doubt, but that doesn't mean the previous one degraded. You're so full of shyte, with that stuff. I show your inconsistencies and you never address them, you just brush over them because maybe you're incapable of taking an honest look at yourself. Or maybe you do, but its not in 1080p, that means its a blurry mess.

4k will be relevant to the masses when you can get a 65 inch TV for 1300 in 4k

Doubtful. Consoles won't be able to game in 4K at acceptable framerates until GPUs in the 750ti power usage/price-range are able to comfortably game at that level, and that will be quite a while. You have to remember that consoles are limited not just by price, but by power usage. Maxwell could herald a dramatic change, but we'll have to wait and see. Currently though, no GPU can adequately game at 4K that doesn't require ~200w-250w.

sorry but this is incorrect, you will notice the difference between 720p and 1080p and you will certainly see the difference between those resolutions and 4k.

I know because i have played on 720p, on 1080p and played on 2000 x 1500 on a electron lacie blue, which is a 4:3 and a tube (weighs 70 pounds) but has amazing resolution and screen quality., it's 22 inch btw.

Once played oblivion on 2048 x 1536 (or something like that) and it was like playing another game. I can see the difference between 720p and 1080p on my monitor as well (and it's a 21 inch), I see it on my 32 inch tv too.

I don't know where you get your info from, but either you were misinformed, you gotta start wearing glasses or you gotta stop talking out of your ass.

@silversix_: I'm curious as to when you believe 1080p became the standard. Judging by your posts it seems like 1080p didn't matter until this PS4 vs Xbox One resolutiongate cap started. I mean it's right there on this page. In 2011 you seemed more than happy with 720p on PS3 and trashed the Wii for not being able to do it.

SDC

Live Live Learn

I know what I'm talking about. YOU don't know what YOU talking about. GET MAD!!! GRRR!!!

It became a standard in late 08-09. To me it became a standard in 2011 when i build my rig. That is the story of mah life yo

Its a gimmick. If in the future im playing at 4k then whatever, but nothing i care about right now. 1080p on a 40" sitting over 5 feet away is perfect for me. I would have to sit really close to even notice 4k lol.

1080p only recently becomes norm. WIll be another decade for 4k content to be mainstream and justify jumping. TV production, film, sports will have to making huge investment in new equipment.

@musicalmac:

in my original post I was on my phone and for some reason couldn't click on the images. I just took a look at the 3 images, yea that's a big difference. It's extremely easy to tell if you focus on the gears in the center of the images couldn't find any jaggies at all. I do agree about people not having hardware good enough to easily tell when something is supposed to be upgraded. I actually have 3 pioneer kuro's( 2 (9th gen) and 1 (9.5 gen)) before they exited the TV business and they show defects more so than other TVs. I'm sure the monitor your talking about does the exact same thing. Where the video is so good that if there is any defect at all you'll notice it.

I had originally taken those to display the differences between "HD" gaming and the sub-HD days from before, and it's clear in that instance and in this instance how resolution makes a difference.

Why is that doubtful? PS5 and other 9th generation consoles are 6+ years away. Moore's law dictates that technology doubles every 18 months.

won't be buying 4k anytime soon, i can't imagine the monster pc you need to run games at 4k. I'm happy with 1080p and all the eye candy

consoles can't even do 1080p right now, even the xbone can hardly do 720p with framerate dipping into lower 20s.

4K is application specific. It isn't necessary in most home theatres.