TLOU Remastered Review Thread: 8/10 Gamespot

#501 Posted by kingtito (5032 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@kingtito said:

LOL at all the cows trying to convince others reviews are anything other than opinions. An opinion is wrong because THEY don't agree with it hahahaha.

Cows are such losers bwhahahahaha

Opinions don't have default levels of respect or credibility. Opinions can be informed, or uninformed. Some can, in fact, just be plain wrong. It's time we collectively got past this intellectually bankrupt excuse of "it's just their opinion, man". Yes, everyone has the right to their opinion, but no one has the right to be right, and we get to have an opinion on the validity of their opinion. As this thread has shown clear as day, the opinion Caro had on Joel, specifically, was grossly misinformed and a glaring hypocritical double standard.

I know she is a decent person, she USED to be a member of the community and a fellow moderator way back in the day. But even though I know she is a decent person, I can honestly say she was a AWFUL reviewer. It's a fact of life that when you are just plain bad at your job, you will lose your job. (unless your dad owns the company or something) But you can't express this kind of view without simple minded dingleberries lumping you with other people and saying "LuLz u just mad dat yer game got a *insert term score*".

Or in the case of one overwhelmingly self righteous person in this thread "You are happy someone lost their job because they had a different opinion about an electronic toy than you did, for SHAME". It's an intellectually dishonest smear job. If you frequent an establishment and one particular employee there is just TERRIBLE at their job and ruins your experience every time you visit it, and FINALLY after a long time they get what's coming to them and get fired… yeah… you are damn right I'm going to be happy they were fired.

Hell, my issues with Tom's reviews started with the FIRST Infamous game. He rated that game a 9. It was just an exceptionally badly written review that did an awful job justifying how he arrived at the score he gave it. I don't hate either of these people. I don't rejoice in their termination because they "disagreed with me about a toy", I am rejoicing in this because they were just absolutely terrible writers who have actively contributed to a steep decline in the quality of the services I get from what has been my go to gaming site since 2001.

But no, by all means, just claim I'm only upset that some trivial number wasn't as high as I thought it should be. Considering the actual truth obviously makes some of you very uncomfortable, by all means, stay in the smug self righteous echo chamber you've made for yourself so you can feel morally superior.

You mean as cows have said. Cows =/= the entire forum or the majority.

There is no wrong or right in any of the TLOU reviews. They both gave their opinions on the game and scored according to what THEY thought it deserved. We get it, cows didn't like it or agree but who cares what cows think. They would have complained if the game got a 9 and said it deserved a 10. Cows love to complain and this forum is reminded of it every single day.

I'm not sure what you're even trying to do. Games have been and always will be subjective. 1 person might love a game and give it a 10 while another might not and give it a 7. In end who cares what reviewers say since the ultimate judge will be you.

Seriously, why does it piss you off if they interjected their personal beliefs or opinions in the reviews? It's just a review and a one you don't have to pay for. BTW fired and laid off aren't the same.

#502 Edited by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@kingtito said:

Seriously, why does it piss you off if they interjected their personal beliefs or opinions in the reviews? It's just a review and a one you don't have to pay for. BTW fired and laid off aren't the same.

In this case specifically? The complaint about Joel comes from the very same person who reviewed the new Tomb Raider, a game wherein not only does the lead character kill just as many, if not more, people… but from what I've seen so far in TLOU, does so far more viciously. I have yet to see Joel kill literally 30 (or more) human beings in one sequence and scream in a rage "I WILL KILL YOU ALL", that DID happen in Tomb Raider though.

The only difference between these two that somehow makes Joel worse is that he is a man and is expected to just sit back and take it when someone threatens him or his family and be reasonable and try to have a discussion, but a woman doing what Joel did on a larger scale and with more bloodlust is perfectly justified and just trying to defend those she loves.

Opinions can be wrong, opinions can be grossly misinformed, reviewers can be shamelessly hypocritical and inconsistent, and I can be happy someone no longer has a job here without being some soulless monster. This is not a part of the SW metagame right now, so please try to be serious.

#503 Posted by cainetao11 (17775 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@kingtito said:

Seriously, why does it piss you off if they interjected their personal beliefs or opinions in the reviews? It's just a review and a one you don't have to pay for. BTW fired and laid off aren't the same.

In this case specifically? The complaint about Joel comes from the very same person who reviewed the new Tomb Raider, a game wherein not only does the lead character kill just as many, if not more, people… but from what I've seen so far in TLOU, does so far more viciously. I have yet to see Joel kill literally 30 (or more) human beings in one sequence and scream in a rage "I WILL KILL YOU ALL", that DID happen in Tomb Raider though.

The only difference between these two that somehow makes Joel worse is that he is a man and is expected to just sit back and take it when someone threatens him or his family and be reasonable and try to have a discussion, but a woman doing what Joel did on a larger scale and with more bloodlust is perfectly justified and just trying to defend those she loves.

Opinions can be wrong, opinions can be grossly misinformed, reviewers can be shamelessly hypocritical and inconsistent, and I can be happy someone no longer has a job here without being some soulless monster. This is not a part of the SW metagame right now, so please try to be serious.

You just used the term "metagame" and want people to be serious? I think you're taking all this too seriously. Ok, if opinions can be wrong (dont buy it in the case of entertainment) what should we do? Be affected by anybody's opinion that differs from ours? Try to convince them they are wrong? Thats utterly pointless.

#504 Edited by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

You just used the term "metagame" and want people to be serious? I think you're taking all this too seriously. Ok, if opinions can be wrong (dont buy it in the case of entertainment) what should we do? Be affected by anybody's opinion that differs from ours? Try to convince them they are wrong? Thats utterly pointless.

The whole farm animal/score centric flop stuff is System Wars metagame. I know because I helped establish the rules of the flop metagame/animal names, etc. it was just a fun stupid game not meant to be taken seriously… this forum was always tongue in cheek wink nod fun for us, and regularly had far deeper and more substantive discussion of gaming mixed into it than the General Games forum has ever had. I do find it hilarious that our game is still going so strong, though. That game has nothing to do with the errors and misguided agendas/double standards apparent in the text of this review.

You don't have to be a "cow" to see that, you just have to have basic critical thinking skills.

I'm not trying to convince anyone they are wrong, just pointing out how laughably bad the whole "it's just like, my opinion man" thing is. Something you say being your opinion does not grant it any kind of default level of respect or credibility, nor does it put it above being questioned. Even in entertainment.

#505 Posted by GreySeal9 (24513 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@Phazevariance said:

@Ballroompirate: It honestly doesn't matter if you didn't like them, still show some respect for people losing their jobs. They didn't do anything wrong in their reviews besides voicing their own opinions, which everyone here on system wars does on a daily basis anyways.

Sorry but if you show respect towards people who were horrible at their job and pissed off other people, my god you're one sorry sob.

It's not their fault that people choose to get so pissed at their reviews.

#506 Edited by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@GreySeal9 said:

It's not their fault that people choose to get so pissed at their reviews.

Depends on WHY the reviews pissed them off. It they were pissed because it got a lower score than they wanted it to get, then yeah, that's fucking stupid. My problem with that is that a lot of you are insisting that is the ONLY problem anyone ever had with them, and that's just plain wrong.

#507 Posted by GreySeal9 (24513 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@GreySeal9 said:

It's not their fault that people choose to get so pissed at their reviews.

Depends on WHY the reviews pissed them off. It they were pissed because it got a lower score than they wanted it to get, then yeah, that's fucking stupid. My problem with that is that a lot of you are insisting that is the ONLY problem anyone ever had with them, and that's just plain wrong.

It may not be the only problem, but if you look at the comments section of McShea's reviews and most of the comments made about him on this website, it becomes clear that people mostly hate him because he gives scores outside the norm. There's not a doubt in my mind that there wouldn't be a massive hate train if his scores were different.

The issue with Carolyn seems to be her so-called feminist agenda, but I personally think the type of people that frequent these kind of sites just don't react well to feminism in general.

#508 Edited by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@GreySeal9 said:

The issue with Carolyn seems to be her so-called feminist agenda, but I personally think the type of people that frequent these kind of sites just don't react well to feminism in general.

I just don't react well to double standards and hypocrisy in reviews. As has been highlighted by the gross double standards she practiced in her reviews of both TLOU:R and Tomb Raider in regards to mass killing of enemies. I know women who are feminists that I have no qualms with at all, and find myself siding with and defending on a regular basis. People like Caro and say, Anita Sarkeesian though, are sad caricatures who actively damage the very cause they are clinging onto.

It's too bad that those sad misguided knuckleheads you talk about in the comments of reviews are so much more vocal, and make it harder for people like me to voice our views. I guess it gives me a taste of the embarrassment and frustration some Christians feel because of vocal knuckleheads like Ray Comfort and Pat Robertson. Being lumped in automatically with idiots just because of a loose association is very aggravating.

#509 Edited by GreySeal9 (24513 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@GreySeal9 said:

The issue with Carolyn seems to be her so-called feminist agenda, but I personally think the type of people that frequent these kind of sites just don't react well to feminism in general.

I just don't react well to double standards and hypocrisy in reviews. As has been highlighted by the gross double standards she practiced in her reviews of both TLOU:R and Tomb Raider in regards to mass killing of enemies. I know women who are feminists that I have no qualms with at all, and find myself siding with and defending on a regular basis. People like Caro and say, Anita Sarkeesian though, are sad caricatures who actively damage the very cause they are clinging onto.

Well, I'm not referring to you in particular. You may have legitimate gripes but the general vibe I get about the demographic of this site is that they just don't want to hear about feminism whatsoever.

#510 Edited by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

Agree with Randolph on the point about there being valid criticism about the reviewers

#511 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@GreySeal9 said:

Well, I'm not referring to you in particular. You may have legitimate gripes but the general vibe I get about the demographic of this site is that they just don't want to hear about feminism whatsoever.

I think if it were restricted to editorials and not injected into reviews, it wouldn't be a big deal.

#512 Edited by ChristianGmr14 (155 posts) -

The game is a 10/10 for me. I loved it the first time, I love it even more now. Naughty Dog created a true masterpiece!

I don't know why people get so bent out of shape regarding reviews, it's just another person's opinion. Besides I only take reviews with a grain of salt. I think most reviewers are actually not really gamers to begin with. I know people who work in game journalism, and I'm not going to name any names but a lot of reviewers don't even play games at all or even have any interest in them to begin with. Many were hoping to get jobs at FOX or CNN but they couldn't for whatever reason, so they decide to do game journalism or sports journalism.

#513 Posted by cainetao11 (17775 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@cainetao11 said:

You just used the term "metagame" and want people to be serious? I think you're taking all this too seriously. Ok, if opinions can be wrong (dont buy it in the case of entertainment) what should we do? Be affected by anybody's opinion that differs from ours? Try to convince them they are wrong? Thats utterly pointless.

The whole farm animal/score centric flop stuff is System Wars metagame. I know because I helped establish the rules of the flop metagame/animal names, etc. it was just a fun stupid game not meant to be taken seriously… this forum was always tongue in cheek wink nod fun for us, and regularly had far deeper and more substantive discussion of gaming mixed into it than the General Games forum has ever had. I do find it hilarious that our game is still going so strong, though. That game has nothing to do with the errors and misguided agendas/double standards apparent in the text of this review.

You don't have to be a "cow" to see that, you just have to have basic critical thinking skills.

I'm not trying to convince anyone they are wrong, just pointing out how laughably bad the whole "it's just like, my opinion man" thing is. Something you say being your opinion does not grant it any kind of default level of respect or credibility, nor does it put it above being questioned. Even in entertainment.

I know how the metagame works. But it is a GAME and your telling people to be serious about this place. You dont have to respect an opinion. I dont care what you do. But for me, when I recognize something is anothers opinion I know its beyond my control so why bother trying to tell them different?

#514 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

I know how the metagame works. But it is a GAME and your telling people to be serious about this place. You dont have to respect an opinion. I dont care what you do. But for me, when I recognize something is anothers opinion I know its beyond my control so why bother trying to tell them different?

With that attitude, one would inevitably be led to believe the very existence of the forums is pointless. I'm not saying always take this place seriously, you are misunderstanding me. I said this place has had and still has thoughtful discussion, more thoughtful than the Games Discussion board at times because we don't have to be as pretentious. You should be able to tell when someone is trying to engage in a serious discussion, and when they're trying to be silly and have fun. The issue of the double standard applied to Joel and Lara in TLOU and Tomb Raider by Carolyn in her reviews of those games goes beyond cows, lems and sheep.

While the game is fun, and a major part of this place, not every single line of discussion has to be or should be TCHBO/TLHBO/TSHBO LAMLAMLAMLAMALAM!!!11!

#515 Posted by cainetao11 (17775 posts) -

@Randolph: Cool. Good talk

#516 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (6248 posts) -

While it is an amazing game, I have to say I'm not enjoying the 2nd play-through as much as I thought I would... I really like the game, but I don't love it. Can't quite put my finger on why...

#517 Posted by handssss (1837 posts) -

He's finally played and reviewed it.

#518 Posted by IMAHAPYHIPPO (2604 posts) -
@hrt_rulz01 said:

While it is an amazing game, I have to say I'm not enjoying the 2nd play-through as much as I thought I would... I really like the game, but I don't love it. Can't quite put my finger on why...

I think it's because, after you look past the fact that the characters are pretty well constructed and you actually care about seeing what happens to them, the game underneath is the culmination of gameplay elements that have become tired and repetitive at the tail end of an overly long console generation.

Without the grab of wanting to know how it ends -- which is a testament to its decent writing by video game standards -- The Last of Us is probably the most well crafted games of the Ps3/360 era, which is its greatest strength and downfall, because that generation should have ended 2-3 years earlier than it did, and games are in need of serious evolution.

Simply put, we're six months into a new generation, and there's a good chance you're in need of something new and improved.

#519 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (6248 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:
@hrt_rulz01 said:

While it is an amazing game, I have to say I'm not enjoying the 2nd play-through as much as I thought I would... I really like the game, but I don't love it. Can't quite put my finger on why...

I think it's because, after you look past the fact that the characters are pretty well constructed and you actually care about seeing what happens to them, the game underneath is the culmination of gameplay elements that have become tired and repetitive at the tail end of an overly long console generation.

Without the grab of wanting to know how it ends -- which is a testament to its decent writing by video game standards -- The Last of Us is probably the most well crafted games of the Ps3/360 era, which is its greatest strength and downfall, because that generation should have ended 2-3 years earlier than it did, and games are in need of serious evolution.

Simply put, we're six months into a new generation, and there's a good chance you're in need of something new and improved.

I think you've nailed it.

#520 Posted by ominous_titan (733 posts) -

whats this crap about there being DLC for TLOU RE already? Ithought it was supposed to have all the DLC included. This gen8 is turning into more of a joke each passing day. All remakes and stupid indie games and terrible exclusives. We're in the dark ages of gaming right now

#521 Posted by donalbane (16363 posts) -

@silversix_ said:

Wish there was a way to buy TLOU's multiplayer alone for like $15. Pvp looks really good in this game

Well they made Uncharted's multiplayer free after a while. Maybe they will with this. I tried one match and found it surprisingly engaging. Didn't know what I was doing with the resources so much, but the fighting and teamwork was great.

#522 Edited by nervmeister (15272 posts) -

@handssss said:

He's finally played and reviewed it.

Okay. As much as I agree with Joe that Xbox fanboys have gone rabid out of insecurity over this game, he's not keeping it quite as classy as he should since a couple of his remarks just about qualify as flamebait material.

#523 Posted by Krelian-co (11231 posts) -

What Joe thinks of xbots

Lol nailed it.

#524 Edited by DEadliNE-Zero0 (2925 posts) -

@handssss: I stopped trusting Joe after he gave Skyrim and GW2 10/10, DXHR 8/10 and Tomb Raider 9/10

I mean, i love Skyrim and GW2, but, 10/10? Really? Skyrim, with it's massive overload of bugs, repeative quests, terrible storyline, broken gameplay elements, like magic and bows vs melee, easy has fuck dragons, and so much more? Again, i love Skyrim, but hell no. Many similar points could be said for GW2.

And Tomb Raider, gets rated hgiher than Deus Ex, despite the terrible boss battles? Really Joe?

I mean, he's not stupid, and is a good reviewer. Obviously, we have no right to call his opions bad or wrong. I'm simpyl saying that i've noticed his reviewes tend to go along with the general hype, or lack thereoff like WD.

Edit: Also, Joe really has gone off the deep end, using phrase like "SALLTYYY" Really Joe? I mean, yeah there's alot of butthurt fanboys over the game, but gushing over eveything about without meantion the cliched charatcer archtypes for example? Eh

#525 Posted by Snugenz (11892 posts) -

Still one of my favourite flops ever.