The Nintendo Hybrid (Long Read)

WHAT IS IT?

A Nintendo Hybrid is something that Nintendo has allegedly been working on for ten years, since the Gamecube-Gameboy Advance connectivity days (the DS's unexpected success being a brief distraction); essentially, it is one system that is the successor both to their current console and hardware, a system that unifies their product lines into one. 

How would it work? Think of it as a small handheld; a powerful handheld, with at least the power of an iPad- you pick it up and you take it with you, like any handheld. You play games on it on the go. And when you come home, you dock it into your TV, and you can play those exact games on your HDTV now, with controllers, as a console game. One platform, that acts as both a handheld and a console.

HOW DOES IT HELP?

It helps in multiple ways- let's focus on the chief issue, which is resource allocation. Increasingly over time, Nintendo has found it harder and harder to support two platforms, a handheld and a console. As we have seen in recent years, one always suffer at the hands of the other (in this case, the Wii U seems to be marginalized in favor of the 3DS); as software development grows more and more complicated, not just for consoles but for handhelds as well, Nintendo finds it harder and harder to allocate first party funds and resources to adequately support both platforms. But in this situation, imagine there being just one system you need to buy to play Nintendo games instead of two- one system for Mario, just one for Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, the new Monolith or Retro game.

And you can play those games any way you want- you can play them on the go if you prefer handheld play. You can play them on your TV if you prefer console play (heck, this even gets you the big screen console Pokemon you have always wanted). 

From a first party perspcetive, this is incredible, because by focusing all their efforts on one platform, Nintendo can ensure there are no more software droughts, like the ones that the Wii U or 3DS suffered. They can ensure there is one major release from them on the one platform that they are supporting every month, without having to do the handheld/console balancing act that they currently do.

From a PR perspective, Nintendo does not have to worry about one platform failing pulling their public perception down (as is happening currently with the Wii U overshadowing the 3DS's impressive success).

IS THERE ANY PROOF THAT THIS IS HAPPENING?

Of course there is proof, there's a whole lot of proof. Let's start with the existence of the Wii U, which is the most conclusive piece of proof we have- the Wii U works a bit like what I described, except in reverse (possibly because the tech to do a hybrid at the level Nintendo wants/I have described wasn't mature or cheap enough yet). It's a proto hybrid. And the Wii U is just the culmination of a long line of efforts by Nintendo to consolidate handhelds and consoles- think back to the Gamecube-Gameboy Advance connectivity, for example.

But the most telling piece of evidence that we have, which will please those who like cold, hard, concrete facts, is the news from earlier this year that Nintendo is consolidating its handheld and console development teams; this can only lead one towards one conclusion, there is no other logical end to this process.

WHAT ABOUT THIRD PARTIES?

Ah yes- third parties. The bane of Nintendo's existence. This is a two pronged problem.

As far as handhelds go, Nintendo has third party support on lock- it's always gotten major third party support for its handhelds. Even in the days of the Wii, the days of the Gamcube, N64, even now, with the Wii U bombing, Nintendo gets major third party support on the 3DS. Third party support for a Nintendo handheld isn't a question. It's assured, because Nintendo has that market on lock.

For consoles, it's almost the exact opposite- no matter what Nintendo does, it can't seem to enlist third party aid. It's easy to see how a console/handheld hybrid would solve this problem, as not only does it get the full third party support a Nintendo handheld traditionally does, but it can also get the kind of 'console' third party support that the Vita is getting; in the best case scenario, it can get full third party support, as an able platform with a lot of sales.

WHA ABOUT THE FINANCIAL FALLOUT?

The one convincing argument against this happening is the financial argument- Nintendo currently earns money from both, its consoles and its handhelds. Wouldn't having one platform just halve the revenue stream?

And the answer to that is no, for a multitude of reasons.

For starters, the non overlapping handheld/comsole demographics now buy one system, and all sales are just transferred to that one, instead of being split across two platforms. For non overlapping demographics, those that own both a Nintendo handheld and a console, however, this represents a loss in revenue.

Said loss is more than covered for, however, by the fact that Nintendo now has to invest in one platform, not two- R&D for one system, maintenance of one system, manufacturing and marketing of one system. Third party support ensures consolidated licensing fees. 

And most importantly, software sales- a singular Nintendo system would experience massive software sales for all Nintendo games, much more than these games do individually on a handheld or a console. All of this can collectively ameliorate the short term revenue loss that unifying their hardware lines would mean.

WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN? (tl;dr version)

There are people who think Nintendo needs to go third party, because it 'sucks at hardware.' These people not only completely miss the point, but they are also inaccurate- Nintendo doesn't suck at hardware, it has a thorough and incredible understanding of hardware engineering. They have had missteps with their recent consoles. But all this while, their handhelds have continued to truck along as the best hardware for the handheld market, uniquely balancing hardware power, reliability, ergonomics, battery life, and innovative inputs, all along, and that has become their core competency.

Such a Nintendo hybrid as described above would take Nintendo's strongest competencies in the hardware market- their incredible experience at designing handhelds- and put it to great use at designing a unified platform. Said platform would be well engineered, unlike Nintendo's recent consoles, would get all the backing of third parties (as a 'handheld'), and the complete might of Nintendo's first party behind it. It would also, once and for all, end the problem of resource allocation that Nintendo often suffers, having to support two platforms all by themselves, and would once and for all answer and end the questions of Nintendo going handheld only/third party.

Finally, this move would also keep Nintendo competitive in a rapidly changing and increasingly more competitive market- this new device would be able to hold its own against smartphones, tablets, and media boxes in a way that a dedicated Nintendo handheld or console would not.

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So the question now is, what do you think of the Nintendo Hybrid? Would you buy such a system? Do you think it is a good move for the company? What do you think would be the problems with this approach?

I applaud this thread.

There should be one Nintendo system for all Nintendo games.

Also, the mentioned system is basically a... PS Vita. (or Wii U GamePad with in-built hardware, if you prefer that)

Of course the price of the system should also be inviting.

From a business perspective, it would be in Ninty's best interest to keep consoles and handhelds separate.Shottayouth13-

From a business perspective, it would be in Ninty's best interest to keep consoles and handhelds separate. Shottayouth13-

Im not sure how I feel about this idea. I like my ninty handhelds. I have had one almost my entire life and have bought many at launch. What would the implications of this be? Would ninty really only produce when system? Because I think that such a device could really be at a detriment to both experiences. Specifically for handhelds: price and portability. NOW, if they want to slap some kind of video out onto their next DS/gameboy thats fine. If they want to produce a console that somehow doubles has a handheld, fine, but there still better be that traditional handheld for me in that case.wolverine4262

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]From a business perspective, it would be in Ninty's best interest to keep consoles and handhelds separate. charizard1605

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]From a business perspective, it would be in Ninty's best interest to keep consoles and handhelds separate. charizard1605

And the arguments you made are strong, too.

No more "internal competition" with one selves, no more struggling 2nd system (as was the norm since NGC, arguably N64), no more customer confusion (it's not a handheld nor a home system, it's both), no more anger about "underpowered" hardware (as handhelds don't need as much power), no more split userbase and switching between platforms, ect.

Sounds pretty ideal to me.

The system could do really well too, given the right pricing. (up to 200+ million units sold easily under right conditions)

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]From a business perspective, it would be in Ninty's best interest to keep consoles and handhelds separate. Shottayouth13-

Ps vita?Ghost120x

lol Nintendo

Even their handheld sales are slowing down.

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="charizard1605"] Except now consolidate all those sales for one product, not two. More importantly, consolidate software sales as well. The traditional home console business is not something Nintendo cam compete in any longer- the AAA game is too expensive for them, and Apple, Amazon, and Google are supplanting them in the low end gaming business. As THQ demonstrated, there is no room for a middle tier of gaming, it's one or the other. A single system yields Nintendo roughly the same profits and revenue that two split lines do, probably more, because no longer do they have to contend with one system dragging the other down, as has been the case since the SNES days, when the slowdown of the Gameboy meant a split allocation of resources, and a temporary shift of focus away from the SNES, leading to Sega to press its advantage.charizard1605

It's not the size of the budget, it's the size of the return that you make on the investment. Nintendo doesn't need to compete with big budgets just because. In fact, Nintendo and others (Minecraft comes to mind) has demonstrated time and time again that you don't need big budgets to be hugely succesful. I wonder what's preventing other companies from taking note of this.

Also, I believe the current AAA game market will collapse (or considerably shrink) if they don't start to minimize and manage those budgets effectively. It's really getting out of hand.

What about a HumanCentWiiPad

This is pretty much a no-brainer. Nintendo is definitely planning to merge their console and handheld gaming in the future. They just have to wait until portable tech is advanced yet affordable enough to do so. The Wii U gamepad isn't just a some tablet gimmick after all, it's essentially a prototype of what they want to do in the future. Glad someone else noticed.

Can I have a TL;DR of your TL;DR?darkspineslayer

If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?TheKingIAm

If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?TheKingIAm

lol. What does that even mean? What's wrong with iPad graphics? 

Haven't you seen some of the crazy new mobile processors that are coming out? Combine that with improving OLED tech and you're gonna start seeing some pretty damn powerful handheld devices in the next few years.

[QUOTE="TheKingIAm"]If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?charizard1605

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="TheKingIAm"]If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?TheKingIAm

[QUOTE="TheKingIAm"]If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?PatchMaster

lol. What does that even mean? What's wrong with iPad graphics? 

Haven't you seen some of the crazy new mobile processors that are coming out? Combine that with improving OLED tech and you're gonna start seeing some pretty damn powerful handheld devices in the next few years.

Can I have a TL;DR of your TL;DR?darkspineslayer

If Nintendo does that, they might as well pack up and go. We dont have time for ipad graphics level consoles. Dont you wanna see Nintendo get with the times?TheKingIAm

I like the similarities between the 3DS and Wii U, namely neither having any good gamesBlabadon

I can't believe they let you post on this site.  I lol'd at the thought of 3DS having no good games.

im just not sure how it would be done. in 5 years time mobile tech will certainly be very good. devs can do some pretty impressive stuff with it today (great article on it actually on eurogamer.: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-vs-ps-vita-face-off). but its the other stuff: the consoles design and such like...that could lead to problems.

when working as a console:

to make mobile hardware deal with more console like games in 5 years its going to need active cooling so it can be clocked much much higher. nintendo would need to design a shell for the device that would work in such a way that it could behave as a heatsink. there are PC cases that do this so its possible....but its not cheap. it would also mean the case would have to be metal, not plastic (which would look very cool has to be said). there would also need to be fans either in the device or as part of an addon to keep the hardware cool and stable. tegra 4 in the shield needs a fan to work flat out for extended periods...this will become more of an issue as time goes by (itll be interesting to see how this is deal with in the phone/tablet space. i think there are some tablets with active cooling now also).

any cable from the device to the TV would need to be removed. there should be only 1 cable: power. it would need to be able to connect to the TV wirelessly.

it would need to be able to provide the full compliment of buttons/sticks etc.

the console would need to use carts. its possible 32GB carts will be affordable for game distribution in 5-6 years time but, then again, maybe not.

when in mobile mode:

the 3DS XL or vita are pretty much as big as a handheld can get. i am assuming that nintendo would still want to make something that can be put in the pocket so 10" screens would be out. 5" is pretty much the maximum. the difference between console mode and handheld mode would also need to be significant as power drain would become an issue.

the cost of development can not be 40-50million quid for a mobile title. if it is then the mobile side of it will be redundant. 4million for a big 3DS title is already pretty pricey now...they cant let it go much higher.

if they were to do it i think this is how they would do it: design a handheld that would look very much like a 3DS. the carts would be 32GB. the internals would be in a big.LITTLE setup where the big element is disabled when the device is not connected to power. developers of mobile only titles would only use the little part of the chip. when in console mode developers can access both the big and little element of the chip to use as they see fit and both elements will be clocked up significantly higher.

nintendo would have a few options for purchase:

1. just the handheld.
2. a console set that includes the extra gubbins needed for console mode. 3) a complete set that includes the handheld and the extras needed for console mode.

so what are the console extras?

1) a unit kinda like the pro controller for the 3DS. this would add extras missing from the base handheld such as triggers, perhaps a back touch surface and enhanced wireless equipment. it would also provide the fans so the handheld can be actively cooled when running flat out. perhaps an extra battery also so you can play in console mode while disconnected from the mains for a few hours.

2) a dongle a lot like chromecast which goes into the back of the telly. the enhanced wireless equipment would be used to send the video stream to the TV with as little latency as possible. it would also need to deal with, at a minimum, a 720P/60FPS video stream. possibly even more to deal with local multiplayer.

its doable but whether its a good idea or not is another matter. i can see a lot of problems with it like:

1) for people who just want a handheld they will be wasting a lot of money. they will be buying hardware with a lot of horsepower but will only be able to use a small fraction of it. it would be better to just sell them the less powerful hardware at a cheaper price.

2) it would be a very expensive base unit. the internal hardware would have to be pretty cutting edge and things like the caseing and 2 screens will just add to the price. nintendo could only get away with it IF they had android on it AND it was a very very sexy bit of kit (people will basically think "i must have that"). nintendo have made great looking kit before (the DS LITE...very purty). but they are not consistent in this department.

3) the extras for the console wouldnt be that cheap either.

4) in 5 years time mobile hardware is still going to be very outclassed by desktop type hardware. itll be much better than now and will have caught up a bit but still.

5) a big potential for market confusion. people could end up buying console versions of a new game and then try and play it when the device is in handheld mode.

6) nintendo would be putting all their eggs in one basket. if it succeeds then great, nintendo can run a more efficent operation and lower their bottom line. if it doesnt though then nintendo would have nothing to fall back on.

there are good sides though:

1) for people who do want a nintendo handheld and console it would be cheaper.

2) it would be very portable. throw the console bits into a bag, play the handheld while on the move then set it up quickly at your new location. for people who travel a lot it could be great.

3) would make life a lot easier for nintendo. just one set of tools to manage, one set of services, one set of firmware and one device to manufacture.

4) nintendo would be able to throw all their studios at it so less chance of extended dry spells between big releases.

5) assuming nintendo would have multimedia abilities it would also be great for movies and such like. again watch what you are watching on the move and then be able to stream it to your telly.

as for making a single device that could be a great handheld and console....no. on the move smaller screens are the thing. 5-5.5" is the max and sound is not a big deal. at home people want bigger screens and good sound. a portable device needs to be thin and cant have as many buttons as a console. one of those sides is going to lose. basically we already have a device like that: the shield....and its crap. its a crap portable and a crap console. great hardware, well built, but not really good at doing any particular thing. its design is badly flawed.

I like the similarities between the 3DS and Wii U, namely neither having any good gamesBlabadon

I don't really care what they do anymore.

im just not sure how it would be done. in 5 years time mobile tech will certainly be very good. devs can do some pretty impressive stuff with it today (great article on it actually on eurogamer.: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-vs-ps-vita-face-off). but its the other stuff: the consoles design and such like...that could lead to problems. when working as a console: to make mobile hardware deal with more console like games in 5 years its going to need active cooling so it can be clocked much much higher. nintendo would need to design a shell for the device that would work in such a way that it could behave as a heatsink. there are PC cases that do this so its possible....but its not cheap. it would also mean the case would have to be metal, not plastic (which would look very cool has to be said). there would also need to be fans either in the device or as part of an addon to keep the hardware cool and stable. tegra 4 in the shield needs a fan to work flat out for extended periods...this will become more of an issue as time goes by (itll be interesting to see how this is deal with in the phone/tablet space. i think there are some tablets with active cooling now also). any cable from the device to the TV would need to be removed. there should be only 1 cable: power. it would need to be able to connect to the TV wirelessly. it would need to be able to provide the full compliment of buttons/sticks etc. the console would need to use carts. its possible 32GB carts will be affordable for game distribution in 5-6 years time but, then again, maybe not. when in mobile mode: the 3DS XL or vita are pretty much as big as a handheld can get. i am assuming that nintendo would still want to make something that can be put in the pocket so 10" screens would be out. 5" is pretty much the maximum. the difference between console mode and handheld mode would also need to be significant as power drain would become an issue. the cost of development can not be 40-50million quid for a mobile title. if it is then the mobile side of it will be redundant. 4million for a big 3DS title is already pretty pricey now...they cant let it go much higher. if they were to do it i think this is how they would do it: design a handheld that would look very much like a 3DS. the carts would be 32GB. the internals would be in a big.LITTLE setup where the big element is disabled when the device is not connected to power. developers of mobile only titles would only use the little part of the chip. when in console mode developers can access both the big and little element of the chip to use as they see fit and both elements will be clocked up significantly higher. nintendo would have a few options for purchase: 1) just the handheld. 2) a console set that includes the extra gubbins needed for console mode. 3) a complete set that includes the handheld and the extras needed for console mode. so what are the console extras? 1) a unit kinda like the pro controller for the 3DS. this would add extras missing from the base handheld such as triggers, perhaps a back touch surface and enhanced wireless equipment. it would also provide the fans so the handheld can be actively cooled when running flat out. perhaps an extra battery also so you can play in console mode while disconnected from the mains for a few hours. 2) a dongle a lot like chromecast which goes into the back of the telly. the enhanced wireless equipment would be used to send the video stream to the TV with as little latency as possible. it would also need to deal with, at a minimum, a 720P/60FPS video stream. possibly even more to deal with local multiplayer. its doable but whether its a good idea or not is another matter. i can see a lot of problems with it like: 1) for people who just want a handheld they will be wasting a lot of money. they will be buying hardware with a lot of horsepower but will only be able to use a small fraction of it. it would be better to just sell them the less powerful hardware at a cheaper price. 2) it would be a very expensive base unit. the internal hardware would have to be pretty cutting edge and things like the caseing and 2 screens will just add to the price. nintendo could only get away with it IF they had android on it AND it was a very very sexy bit of kit (people will basically think "i must have that"). nintendo have made great looking kit before (the DS LITE...very purty). but they are not consistent in this department. 3) the extras for the console wouldnt be that cheap either. 4) in 5 years time mobile hardware is still going to be very outclassed by desktop type hardware. itll be much better than now and will have caught up a bit but still. 5) a big potential for market confusion. people could end up buying console versions of a new game and then try and play it when the device is in handheld mode. 6) nintendo would be putting all their eggs in one basket. if it succeeds then great, nintendo can run a more efficent operation and lower their bottom line. if it doesnt though then nintendo would have nothing to fall back on. there are good sides though: 1) for people who do want a nintendo handheld and console it would be cheaper. 2) it would be very portable. throw the console bits into a bag, play the handheld while on the move then set it up quickly at your new location. for people who travel a lot it could be great. 3) would make life a lot easier for nintendo. just one set of tools to manage, one set of services, one set of firmware and one device to manufacture. 4) nintendo would be able to throw all their studios at it so less chance of extended dry spells between big releases. 5) assuming nintendo would have multimedia abilities it would also be great for movies and such like. again watch what you are watching on the move and then be able to stream it to your telly. as for making a single device that could be a great handheld and console....no. on the move smaller screens are the thing. 5-5.5" is the max and sound is not a big deal. at home people want bigger screens and good sound. a portable device needs to be thin and cant have as many buttons as a console. one of those sides is going to lose. basically we already have a device like that: the shield....and its crap. its a crap portable and a crap console. great hardware, well built, but not really good at doing any particular thing. its design is badly flawed.osan0

You have got to be kidding me....

The 3ds (the og model i have) dies in 3 hours....3 hours of crap battery life (with wi-fi off). My vita lasts 6 ,longer if I am playing psp or ps1 games. And don't tell me to turn off the 3d, as that is a major part of the 3ds!!!

As for power, the graphics are the same as the PSP, that came out in 2004! Every game I play on 3ds i feel would of been better on the vita.... but I don't play Nintendo first party stuff besides Zelda and Fire emblem. Most of my 3ds games have been from Atlus.

You tout the massive games library for the 3ds when it really isn't that big. It has the normal shovelware that all nintendo console has, you know the kiddie like the movie tie-ins and disney channel games.... uggh.. it also has crap console type games that don't do well on the 3ds as its 3d isn't that good and its missing the 2nd analog. I hate that to play monster hunter i need a bulky bulbous accessory. In fact it feels better playing MHFU on vita than MH3 on 3ds... and I can play for 3-4 times the hours, and not have to squint to see the details..

Take a way all the mario and other first party nintendo games and tell me whats good besides. Resident evil, tales of abyss, EO4, monster hunter, and SMT4.. it sure isn't castlevania, as I was hoping for more SOTN style but it turned out it wasn't that... so I didn't bite.

I was really hoping the 3ds had more 3rd party stuff than that, but it doesn't and everyone saying that the 3ds has so many 3rd party games and the vita has no games is fooling themselves and is brainwashed... I have over 40+ games for my vita and about 10 for my 3ds... That to me says something. Maybe if I liked mario everything that would change, but I don't... Can't stand mario kart (as there is no reason to play it when you don't have someone else to play it with), the only mario game I would even consider is 3d land..

Only reason I am bringing all this up is all the bs you people spew about the vita and its library... the 3ds doesn't have that great of one either.. no where near the ds or psp was after a few years.