The Cloud. Real or Bs?

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#1 Edited by TheExpert79 (623 posts) -

This is not about Sony vs Microsoft. I'm rare on this board in the fact that I like them both. Both have their good and bad things.

The ps4 is clearly a more powerful machine out of the box. Microsoft has made a claim they can improve processing power by using the cloud. Does microsoft have an ace up it's sleeve and over time can use the cloud to improve the graphics and AI?

As more users connect to the cloud the theory is that the cloud because stronger. Does anyone know of a system that has proven that could work?

or

Is it all pr bs?

#2 Edited by Chutebox (36463 posts) -

Technically ti's real. Some of the promises are BS.

#3 Posted by Heil68 (43285 posts) -

It's real but it wont magically make games look better, that's just dreaming in another dimension. Never going to happen.

#4 Posted by -RPGamer- (34283 posts) -

It's real, it has been real. And as a buzzword it now has irrational faith and fervor.

#5 Posted by silversix_ (13954 posts) -

Not BS. PR BS.

#6 Posted by Kingpin0114 (2522 posts) -

@Chutebox said:

Technically ti's real. Some of the promises are BS.

#7 Posted by Spartan070 (16328 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

It's real but it wont magically make games look better, that's just dreaming in another dimension. Never going to happen.

The one thing it NEVER claimed to improve was graphical fidelity. AI processing, physics, etc...never claimed to make games look better.

#8 Posted by AK_the_Twilight (285 posts) -

I'm more concerned that Microsoft reported that cloud updates are automatically activated and force a system restart...even when you're in the middle of a game.

#9 Edited by Ginosaji (965 posts) -

"The Cloud" is a marketing BS term for real technology that has been around and in use for a very long time.

#10 Posted by TheExpert79 (623 posts) -

A more direct question has there ever been examples of the clouds improving graphics power?

#11 Posted by Spartan070 (16328 posts) -

A more direct question has there ever been examples of the clouds improving graphics power?

No but there have never been claims of it either, save for the rants of fanboys.

#12 Posted by Multipass35 (295 posts) -

When has MS ever said they can render graphics using the cloud. Physics and AI yes.

#13 Posted by danabo (2474 posts) -

I'm more concerned that Microsoft reported that cloud updates are automatically activated and force a system restart...even when you're in the middle of a game.

CORRECTION: Our original story suggested that players' Xbox One consoles may reboot without warning due to cloud updates. This has been corrected to note that it's the host servers that may reboot during multiplayer games. We regret the error.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/xbox-one-cloud-updates-may-force-mid-game-reboot

#14 Posted by Heil68 (43285 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

It's real but it wont magically make games look better, that's just dreaming in another dimension. Never going to happen.

The one thing it NEVER claimed to improve was graphical fidelity. AI processing, physics, etc...never claimed to make games look better.

It's been claimed to be on many occasions. Look at how MS words their shit:

"Keeps getting better - "cloud powered" means Xbox One and games grow with you over time."

lol

#15 Posted by danabo (2474 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

@Spartan070 said:

@Heil68 said:

It's real but it wont magically make games look better, that's just dreaming in another dimension. Never going to happen.

The one thing it NEVER claimed to improve was graphical fidelity. AI processing, physics, etc...never claimed to make games look better.

It's been claimed to be on many occasions. Look at how MS words their shit:

"Keeps getting better - "cloud powered" means Xbox One and games grow with you over time."

lol

Well, if you look at something like OnLive it's certainly feasible however unlikely.

#16 Posted by psymon100 (6138 posts) -

the cloud is real

if there is any truth to the claims remains to be seen.

2013? probably not.

2015? maybe some benefits to those on suitable internets

2017? I think by this time cloud could be impactful. its a long time though, and anyone can have a cloud. not just microsoft.

#17 Posted by navyguy21 (12730 posts) -

To cows? Its BS

To lems? Its real

To the real world? Its real and can be used in some creative ways, but it wont help on screen graphics capabilities. You can offload background process to the cloud to free up CPU or GPU processing, but nothing major that is going to push it over the top. WIll mainly be used AI, leaderboards, achievements, maybe precedural birds or storms, realtime community events, maybe cross game alerts, etc

#18 Posted by AK_the_Twilight (285 posts) -

@danabo said:

@AK_the_Twilight said:

I'm more concerned that Microsoft reported that cloud updates are automatically activated and force a system restart...even when you're in the middle of a game.

CORRECTION:

Our original story suggested that players' Xbox One consoles may reboot without warning due to cloud updates. This has been corrected to note that it's the host servers that may reboot during multiplayer games. We regret the error.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/xbox-one-cloud-updates-may-force-mid-game-reboot

Sorry, I read that news elsewhere and didn't know it was corrected. Thanks for the update.

#19 Edited by jhcho2 (4372 posts) -

The cloud is real. What MS is making gamers believe is pure BS. The fact is, online servers cannot be used for any frame processing whatsoever. Processors, be it GPUs or CPUs, calculate operations in teraflops. 1 tera = 1 trillion. 1 trillion flops per second means 1 flop is calculated in 0.000000000001 seconds. Even with the best latency possible, your online ping will be around 5ms = 0.005 seconds. How do you suppose a connection with a delay of 0.005 seconds keep up with calculations that are 9 orders or magnitude faster than that?

The cloud can only calculate stuff off-demand, but not on-demand

#20 Posted by Daious (1063 posts) -

MS has never claim that the cloud was suppose to improve graphics.

#21 Posted by YD_11 (1621 posts) -

It's real and is being used by Forza 5 and the drivatars. I doubt anything graphically can come from it but they've already talked about AI and NPC's being cloud based.

#22 Posted by Arthas045 (5096 posts) -

@Chutebox said:

Technically ti's real. Some of the promises are BS.

I have to agree with this.

#23 Edited by Basinboy (11004 posts) -

There are some advantages, but you're not going to outsource computations to the cloud and increase performance in any substantial way.

It does present opportunities for different gameplay features not previously possible.

#24 Posted by magicalclick (22401 posts) -

It would make MP games higher bandwidth because users no longer host their games on their own slow upstream, they host it on faster upstream cloud. As for cloud based graphics and AI, it is hard to imagine what can be done. Because the game has to run without internet for SP, and even if it is online, you have to consider the bandwidth and latency isn't as stable as expected, so, how the game balance that is quite tricky. Imagine that in fraction of a second the internet is slow, the game has to quickly lower graphics fidelity and allocate resources for AI that was off loaded by cloud, and do the local AI compute. To be able to manage that isn't easy. While it isn't easy to do, the cloud is there for free. So, developer can use cloud without spending money and going through a lot of trouble managing their own servers. This offers more possibilities for developers at low risk, making it a better playground for new ideas in a connected cloud world.

#25 Edited by Wasdie (49561 posts) -

The "cloud" is amazing for usability. Faster downloads, easier updates, cloud saves, streaming, sharing videos/pictures, all of that. The cloud is a great tool for consoles to have a very comprehensive online experience for the users. Both Sony and Microsoft are fully embracing this.

As for games it's going to be up to the developer. Games like Destiny, Watch Dogs, and The Division are all using the cloud to provide seamless multiplayer and break down the barriers that stand in the way with traditional dedicated servers or peer-to-peer connections.

You could argue that Microsoft has a better handle on the cloud. They have far more experience and a much more stable infrastructure. I doubt Sony's ability to match. PSN on the PS4 has a lot to prove. They do it well on the Vita, but the Vita isn't some runaway success with tens of millions sold and a lot of users constantly putting stress on their servers. Only time will tell if Sony can match Microsoft in that department.

#26 Posted by xxgunslingerxx (4055 posts) -

To cows? Its BS

To lems? Its real

To the real world? Its real and can be used in some creative ways, but it wont help on screen graphics capabilities. You can offload background process to the cloud to free up CPU or GPU processing, but nothing major that is going to push it over the top. WIll mainly be used AI, leaderboards, achievements, maybe precedural birds or storms, realtime community events, maybe cross game alerts, etc

This is the closest thing to the the truth right here! also I want to add that the could wont be used for anything dynamic just for prescripted processes

#27 Posted by xxgunslingerxx (4055 posts) -
@Basinboy said:

There are some advantages, but you're not going to outsource computations to the cloud and increase performance in any substantial way.

It does present opportunities for different gameplay features not previously possible.

You don't know what you are talking about please stop posting your lies... there ISNT anything that cloud can do that cant already or already has been done using dedicated servers

#28 Edited by jhcho2 (4372 posts) -
@daious said:

MS has never claim that the cloud was suppose to improve graphics.

They were smart enough to not say it outright, but they didn't exactly made it clear that it couldn't either. They said something along the lines of each X1 had 3 times the processing power at its disposal in the cloud. It's a vague statement, but anyone not savvy enough on this would assume that the aforementioned processing power could work in tandem with the console hardware.

#29 Posted by I-AM-N00B (410 posts) -

I don't know enough about it but I think if they deliver most of the promises being made it should be very exciting for Xbox One owners!

#30 Posted by ihsanqueen (866 posts) -

I'd say it's real but Cloud make Xbone more powerful than PS4 is I'd say BS

#31 Posted by megaspiderweb09 (3686 posts) -

The cloud is definately real but in terms of the gaming application of it, that all remains to be seen especially given there exist a lot of kinks that would need to be ironed out for it to be fully embraced as a main gaming hub

#32 Posted by RossRichard (2331 posts) -

It's a real thing, but we are decades away from what MS was saying. The entire world would need FiOS to even get a fraction of that.

#33 Posted by Basinboy (11004 posts) -

@Basinboy said:

There are some advantages, but you're not going to outsource computations to the cloud and increase performance in any substantial way.

It does present opportunities for different gameplay features not previously possible.

You don't know what you are talking about please stop posting your lies... there ISNT anything that cloud can do that cant already or already has been done using dedicated servers

I never said it could. Of what do you think MS' cloud is comprised?

#34 Edited by DirkXXVI (497 posts) -

Only when we get to the point where "Netflix" gaming with state of the art games at max settings becomes more feasible and practical on basic hardware. As thats pretty much the end game as far as the Cloud for gaming is concerned.

As far as Microsofts claims for the XBone in regards to the cloud and allowing each console to triple it's power. Extremely misleading not to mention complete and utter BS. All it really amounts to is less lag during online play and "persistent MMO worlds" that evolve while you're not playing. Which really amounts to this clan of guys was over here, now they're over there.

#35 Posted by RR360DD (11561 posts) -

@Basinboy said:

There are some advantages, but you're not going to outsource computations to the cloud and increase performance in any substantial way.

It does present opportunities for different gameplay features not previously possible.

You don't know what you are talking about please stop posting your lies... there ISNT anything that cloud can do that cant already or already has been done using dedicated servers

Uh the cloud is just a buzzword these days. So why you're trying to differentiate between the two is beyond me.

And yeah, there are plenty of features that can be done using the cloud that HAVEN'T been done before.

This sort of connectivity has never been pushed before in gaming until now. And I personally think single player games being connected to the cloud is a gamechanger.

#36 Posted by urbansys (232 posts) -

Someone show one link where MS claimed to help directly help in game graphics? They have only claimed it can help take over AI, physics and what not which in turn can possibly help devs push graphics further in the game design. Ms and game devs obviously most prove they can do it.

#37 Edited by tdkmillsy (1261 posts) -

the cloud is real

if there is any truth to the claims remains to be seen.

2013? probably not.

2015? maybe some benefits to those on suitable internets

2017? I think by this time cloud could be impactful. its a long time though, and anyone can have a cloud. not just microsoft.

I think you are spot on except you missed the fact anyone with several Billion pounds/dollars can have a cloud and that limits who can do it and doesn't include Sony, at least not to the same degree Microsoft are talking.

#38 Posted by Basinboy (11004 posts) -

@urbansys said:

Someone show one link where MS claimed to help directly help in game graphics? They have only claimed it can help take over AI, physics and what not which in turn can possibly help devs push graphics further in the game design. Ms and game devs obviously most prove they can do it.

This references the cloud computing claims, but I'm not certain where the original statement is.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

The inference made by most of the internet is that by possessing 5TF of computational power, you can allocate that however you want (graphics and likewise).

#39 Edited by Senor_Kami (8299 posts) -


As more users connect to the cloud the theory is that the cloud because stronger. Does anyone know of a system that has proven that could work?

PCs have been doing this pretty much since the internet was invented.