System Shock 2 V/S Bioshock

what do u guys think is better. Both made from same developers i.e. irrational umm i mean 2k boston. Bioshock considered as a spiritual succesor to SS2. but i consider this to be bullcrap.bioshock is half the game SS2 was. I am not saying bioshock was bad ( hell it was the 3rd best game last year IMO), i mean everything in SS2 was better. Shodan completely blows aways the big daddies and little sisters. the RPG elements in bioshock are a joke compared to what SS2 offered, i mean u had to think twice to shoot a weapon(ppl who played it know what i mean ).

So what are your opinions on this.

what do u guys think is better. Both made from same developers i.e. irrational umm i mean 2k boston. Bioshock considered as a spiritual succesor to SS2. but i consider this to be bullcrap.bioshock is half the game SS2 was. I am not saying bioshock was bad ( hell it was the 3rd best game last year IMO), i mean everything in SS2 was better. Shodan completely blows aways the big daddies and little sisters. the RPG elements in bioshock are a joke compared to what SS2 offered, i mean u had to think twice to shoot a weapon(ppl who played it know what i mean ).

So what are your opinions on this.

jaisimar_chelse

Yeah SS2 was better but like all good PC franchises they had to dumb Bioshock down for the masses on console *sigh*.

[QUOTE="jaisimar_chelse"]

what do u guys think is better. Both made from same developers i.e. irrational umm i mean 2k boston. Bioshock considered as a spiritual succesor to SS2. but i consider this to be bullcrap.bioshock is half the game SS2 was. I am not saying bioshock was bad ( hell it was the 3rd best game last year IMO), i mean everything in SS2 was better. Shodan completely blows aways the big daddies and little sisters. the RPG elements in bioshock are a joke compared to what SS2 offered, i mean u had to think twice to shoot a weapon(ppl who played it know what i mean ).

So what are your opinions on this.

Stonin

Yeah SS2 was better but like all good PC franchises they had to dumb Bioshock down for the masses on console *sigh*.

i still have a glimmer of hhope that they make SS3

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

SS2 was a lot deeper of a game than Bioshock...it actually had RPG elements in it for starters (Bioshock claims to have them, but they are very basic), The atmosphere was better (for its time)

But the story is Bioshock is better, Ill give it that.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

No it doesn't, it basically says 'yeah well not much different from SS2 except it's easier and 'more accessable'. What he fails to realise is that the entire ambiance of SS2 came from it's difficulty. You had to approach every single situation bearing in mind what you had in your backpack and how far you were going to need to stretch it. You could save whenever but if you save without ammo there is no coming back.

Bioshock does away with ANY death penalty at all and lost all atmosphere for me because of it. I didn't need to creep anywhere, just run in and kill em, if you don't then hey ho just walk back from the vitachamber and they'll even keep there damage for you *sigh*.

You clearly haven't played SS2 and i'm not sure the author of that article has either.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

oh wow an article by someone i dont give a damn about.

i can bring u 10 more articles saying that bioshock is dumbed down.

weaksauce isnt that some dish

Good new -- there will be SS3, bad new ---- it's made by EA ...pc478

Yup, and watch Bethesda ruin Fallout 3 in much the same way as it dumbs it down once again.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

Stonin

No it doesn't, it basically says 'yeah well not much different from SS2 except it's easier and 'more accessable'. What he fails to realise is that the entire ambiance of SS2 came from it's difficulty. You had to approach every single situation bearing in mind what you had in your backpack and how far you were going to need to stretch it. You could save whenever but if you save without ammo there is no coming back.

Bioshock does away with ANY death penalty at all and lost all atmosphere for me because of it. I didn't need to creep anywhere, just run in and kill em, if you don't then hey ho just walk back from the vitachamber and they'll even keep there damage for you *sigh*.

You clearly haven't played SS2 and i'm not sure the author of that article has either.

Wrong. I have played SS2 and you CLEARLY did not read the article.

[QUOTE="Stonin"][QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

No it doesn't, it basically says 'yeah well not much different from SS2 except it's easier and 'more accessable'. What he fails to realise is that the entire ambiance of SS2 came from it's difficulty. You had to approach every single situation bearing in mind what you had in your backpack and how far you were going to need to stretch it. You could save whenever but if you save without ammo there is no coming back.

Bioshock does away with ANY death penalty at all and lost all atmosphere for me because of it. I didn't need to creep anywhere, just run in and kill em, if you don't then hey ho just walk back from the vitachamber and they'll even keep there damage for you *sigh*.

You clearly haven't played SS2 and i'm not sure the author of that article has either.

Wrong. I have played SS2 and you CLEARLY did not read the article.

okay tell me was the vitachamber part necessary in the game. doesnt it take out all the scariness and edginess of the game.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

jaisimar_chelse

oh wow an article by someone i dont give a damn about.

i can bring u 10 more articles saying that bioshock is dumbed down.

weaksauce isnt that some dish

lol this quote from it shows just how little he knows:

There's also the added bonus of increased verisimilitude due to things like weapons degradation and the requirement for a player to have a certain level of a skill before they can use certain weapons being cut. These are elements of Shock 2 which, frankly, most people thought were a bit rubbish.

Yeah, I mean who likes having to level up a character or learn how to use items. What we all want is it dropped on a plate so there is no thought, no different character builds (you HAD to go one of 3 ways and you HAD to deal with situations very differently because of your choice) and very little replay value.

[QUOTE="Stonin"][QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

No it doesn't, it basically says 'yeah well not much different from SS2 except it's easier and 'more accessable'. What he fails to realise is that the entire ambiance of SS2 came from it's difficulty. You had to approach every single situation bearing in mind what you had in your backpack and how far you were going to need to stretch it. You could save whenever but if you save without ammo there is no coming back.

Bioshock does away with ANY death penalty at all and lost all atmosphere for me because of it. I didn't need to creep anywhere, just run in and kill em, if you don't then hey ho just walk back from the vitachamber and they'll even keep there damage for you *sigh*.

You clearly haven't played SS2 and i'm not sure the author of that article has either.

Wrong. I have played SS2 and you CLEARLY did not read the article.

Really? I'm quoting from it. How about you tell me the twist in SS2?

The fact is that System Shock 2 was no more difficult than Bioshock and instead of the crutch of vita chambers you had the crutch of saving wherever you wanted which if anything is even more easy than a vita chamber. You don't even have to trek back from where you started.

Beat Bioshock on hard with one life for that one achievement. It's not easy.

Hermits have a sad tendency to think making things more complex automatically= better. Weapons breaking and having to reach some arbitrary "level" to use something might be great for you but others may find it unnecessary like OH SAY the guy who developed both games Ken Levine. :|

And you must have sucked at SS2 or not been much at exploring to think you were seriously hampered by the choices you made at the beginning of the game because you can be quite a good hacker due to the minigame nature of it without having "high skill" and you can develop other things through the upgrade modules.

Bioshock gives you more than enough powers to experiment with in multiple playthroughs and has two distinct endings.

As for the twist in SS2 it's a lot like the twist in Bioshock but I don't want to spoil anything.

The fact is that System Shock 2 was no more difficult than Bioshock and instead of the crutch of vita chambers you had the crutch of saving wherever you wanted which if anything is even more easy than an a vita chamber. You don't even have to trek back from where you started.

Beat Bioshock on hard with one life for that one achievement. It's not easy.

Hermits have a sad tendency to think making things more complex automatically= better. Weapons breaking and having to reach some arbitrary "level" to use something might be great for you but others may find it unnecessary like OH SAY the guy who developed both games Ken Levine. :|

And you must have sucked at SS2 or not been much at exploring to think you were seriously hampered by the choices you made at the beginning of the game because you can be quite a good hacker due to the minigame nature of it without having "high skill" and you can develop other things through the upgrade modules.

Bioshock gives you more than enough powers to experiment with in multiple playthroughs and has two distinct endings.

As for the twist in SS2 it's a lot like the twist in Bioshock but I don't want to spoil anything.

JiveT

the fact is i dont give a damn about achievements , even without them medic kits are easily available from vending machines.

and that 2 endings part , OMG u know what the developer didnt even want the 2 endings, it was only after some 'higher' personality in 2k told them to put to endings to cater to the RPG gimmick

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

I'm sorry, but this article is the only thing that is weak sauce. Bioshock has about 2 things on SS, graphics, and no gun degredation... which SS2 patched away anyway leaving bioshock with 1 thing. Everything else is either worse, or only as good (and mostly the former not the later).

The fact is that System Shock 2 was no more difficult than Bioshock and instead of the crutch of vita chambers you had the crutch of saving wherever you wanted which if anything is even more easy than an a vita chamber. You don't even have to trek back from where you started.

Beat Bioshock on hard with one life for that one achievement. It's not easy.

Hermits have a sad tendency to think making things more complex automatically= better. Weapons breaking and having to reach some arbitrary "level" to use something might be great for you but others may find it unnecessary like OH SAY the guy who developed both games Ken Levine. :|

And you must have sucked at SS2 or not been much at exploring to think you were seriously hampered by the choices you made at the beginning of the game because you can be quite a good hacker due to the minigame nature of it without having "high skill" and you can develop other things through the upgrade modules.

Bioshock gives you more than enough powers to experiment with in multiple playthroughs and has two distinct endings.

As for the twist in SS2 it's a lot like the twist in Bioshock but I don't want to spoil anything.

JiveT

You were seriously hampered. Hacking was a problem that needed addressing but as a PSi trained character you would not be using high level weapons. To think otherwise shows you didn't explore it much.

I know the guy that made the game changed it but you know why? For sales my friend, sales. Console gamers do not like hard games, period. Bioshock was a really good game but apart from the graphics it was like taking a step back from it's predecessor.

You are wrong about the saving thing though as it was a choice you had to make and a wrong decision could screw you. In Bioshock you can never get it wrong, there are never any consequences for dying, not even a long walk. What Bioshock did right is give you tools to approach different situations in a different manner...although the outcome is always the same. What it did wrong was take away the customisation and death penalties leaving it a shallow and very easily completed adventure.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

No it doesn't. It doesn't even cover SS2 except in the beginning, where the article CONCEDES that BioShock is just SS2.5.

System Shock 2 was one of the best games ever. Very few games have got me more emotionally involved than System Shock 2. I loved that game and it by far the scariest game I've ever played. I cannot say enough good things about it. It had everything in it to make a good game. Graphics (for its time), gameplay, story, interesting characters, awesome game.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

DerekLoffin

I'm sorry, but this article is the only thing that is weak sauce. Bioshock has about 2 things on SS, graphics, and no gun degredation... which SS2 patched away anyway leaving bioshock with 1 thing. Everything else is either worse, or only as good (and mostly the former not the later).

"The first one's true. BioShock is both a more accessible and easier game than System Shock 2. But "easier" doesn't have anything to with it being "dumber", and hating "more accessible" is just petty elitismfrom people who'd actually like videogames to be a ghetto consisting of them - especially when some of the things to make the game more accessible can be turned off. As long as point two's not true, then the former really doesn't matter."

I guess that line really must have hit you hard. ;)

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

I'm sorry, but this article is the only thing that is weak sauce. Bioshock has about 2 things on SS, graphics, and no gun degredation... which SS2 patched away anyway leaving bioshock with 1 thing. Everything else is either worse, or only as good (and mostly the former not the later).

"The first one's true. BioShock is both a more accessible and easier game than System Shock 2. But "easier" doesn't have anything to with it being "dumber", and hating "more accessible" is just petty elitismfrom people who'd actually like videogames to be a ghetto consisting of them - especially when some of the things to make the game more accessible can be turned off. As long as point two's not true, then the former really doesn't matter."

I guess that line really must have hit you hard. ;)

Nope, all it did is prove he is one of those types that doesn't like it when others don't worship the game he likes. Nothing he said in any way helped his case.

The fact is that System Shock 2 was no more difficult than Bioshock and instead of the crutch of vita chambers you had the crutch of saving wherever you wanted which if anything is even more easy than a vita chamber. You don't even have to trek back from where you started.

Beat Bioshock on hard with one life for that one achievement. It's not easy.

Hermits have a sad tendency to think making things more complex automatically= better. Weapons breaking and having to reach some arbitrary "level" to use something might be great for you but others may find it unnecessary like OH SAY the guy who developed both games Ken Levine. :|

And you must have sucked at SS2 or not been much at exploring to think you were seriously hampered by the choices you made at the beginning of the game because you can be quite a good hacker due to the minigame nature of it without having "high skill" and you can develop other things through the upgrade modules.

Bioshock gives you more than enough powers to experiment with in multiple playthroughs and has two distinct endings.

As for the twist in SS2 it's a lot like the twist in Bioshock but I don't want to spoil anything.

JiveT

Uh what? you can save anywhere on Bioshock, making that achievement easy ...

i haven't played SS2 yet .. when i've got time i will

i'm reading that it's a lot deeper than bioshock .. i don't know if that will mean i'll like it more or less though

e.g. i preferred bioshock to deus ex because it's more accessible to me

Uh what? you can save anywhere on Bioshock, making that achievement easy ...

Meu2k7

probably a console player

SS2 by far, I don't see any point in favour of BS. While the graphics were better in BS the atmosphere in SS2 was so much scarier that you get immersed in much more in SS2naval

I disagree. I played SS2 only a month ago and while it was better atmosphere than i expected from a 3d game it's age it doesn't hold up today. i was not as immersed as i was in BS.

[QUOTE="naval"]SS2 by far, I don't see any point in favour of BS. While the graphics were better in BS the atmosphere in SS2 was so much scarier that you get immersed in much more in SS2Ontain

I disagree. I played SS2 only a month ago and while it was better atmosphere than i expected from a 3d game it's age it doesn't hold up today. i was not as immersed as i was in BS.

well to me pretty graphics in BS do look cool for few seconds after that it all seemed just okay. In SS2 the effect was continous

I played SS2 last month and i'm playing bioshock now. SS2 is more complex and deeper. but it hasn't aged well. bioshock is more fun to me right now. if SS2 was upgraded to look as good as bioshock then yes i'd like it more. right now though i'd prefer playing bioshock. Ontain

well you can try SHTUP and SS2 Rebirth Mods. They enhance Object and AI textures. I havn't installed them but I have heard they make game look bit nicer

bioshock is SS2's clone

same twist

same enemies (basicly)

same cooridor style (underwater instead of in space)

bioshock = consolised SS2 IMO (no inventory and what not)

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

[QUOTE="naval"]SS2 by far, I don't see any point in favour of BS. While the graphics were better in BS the atmosphere in SS2 was so much scarier that you get immersed in much more in SS2naval

I disagree. I played SS2 only a month ago and while it was better atmosphere than i expected from a 3d game it's age it doesn't hold up today. i was not as immersed as i was in BS.

well to me pretty graphics in BS do look cool for few seconds after that it all seemed just okay. In SS2 the effect was continous

I thought it was more than cool for a few seconds. they had character and detail that i don't see in many games. I had a sense of real exploration when i walked around. while SS2's environment was okay. the character models were aweful. also they way they moved was off putting to me too. I did try the mods but they only helped a little. the gameplay still needed to change a little IMO.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

JiveT

I'm sorry, but this article is the only thing that is weak sauce. Bioshock has about 2 things on SS, graphics, and no gun degredation... which SS2 patched away anyway leaving bioshock with 1 thing. Everything else is either worse, or only as good (and mostly the former not the later).

"The first one's true. BioShock is both a more accessible and easier game than System Shock 2. But "easier" doesn't have anything to with it being "dumber", and hating "more accessible" is just petty elitismfrom people who'd actually like videogames to be a ghetto consisting of them - especially when some of the things to make the game more accessible can be turned off. As long as point two's not true, then the former really doesn't matter."

I guess that line really must have hit you hard. ;)

Ah okay, then you enjoy all the wii Shovelware, for their great level of easiness?

Yeah, Deus Ex and System Shock 2 are the two games people need to play before they really know what a good game is.

Omnikron is a game I need to go play too, I only had a broken demo for that game..

I think both games are awesome, though they edge eachother out in in several areas. Let me lay out for you, in chart form:

Bioshock has better...

Combat, story, level design, writing, visuals, music, voice acting, and general smoothness of gameplay.

System Shock 2 has better...

RPG elements, challenge (and by extension, better feeling of accomplishment), horror, atmosphere, sense of purpose, replay value, and variety.

They're very different games. Bioshock is more of a pure FPS with alot of emphasis on fast paced, up close, visceral combat, whilst SS2 is alot heavier on the RPG side, and is a more cerebral experience, at least when it comes to basic gameplay.

Honestly I really can't choose between the two; both are in my top 10 of all time list.

Really, they are both just simply excellent games that excel in different areas. Hell, I think they even compliment one another, having played them over back to back just recently.

Yeah, Deus Ex and System Shock 2 are the two games people need to play before they really know what a good game is.

HostileEffect

Absolutely..... Couldn't agree more.... I'd better not say any more before the illuminati come after me.

Look at you, hacker. A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?

That opening line has stuck with me more then any other, I have played hundreds of games, and none can compare to the greatness of System Shock. I remember scenes, events and names from other games, but from SS I remember the dialogue, can hear the voice in my head. Even years since the last time I played.

and now 2k has announced BS2 but still no SS3 WHEN WILL THAT HAPPEN !!!!jaisimar_chelse

Console gamers do not like hard games, period.

Stonin

:|

*goes back to playing Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja*

Look at you, hacker. A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?

That opening line has stuck with me more then any other, I have played hundreds of games, and none can compare to the greatness of System Shock. I remember scenes, events and names from other games, but from SS I remember the dialogue, can hear the voice in my head. Even years since the last time I played.

dlindenb2000

[QUOTE="Stonin"]

Console gamers do not like hard games, period.

Kritical_Strike

:|

*goes back to playing Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja*

i agree ninja gaiden is the most hardcore game available on the consoles

[QUOTE="Kritical_Strike"][QUOTE="Stonin"]

Console gamers do not like hard games, period.

jaisimar_chelse

:|

*goes back to playing Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja*

i agree ninja gaiden is the most hardcore game available on the consoles

So do I, now lets see what they do to the next one. I'm not saying all console gamers want easy games but publishers are simplifying them so that they sell to the mass market. This is spilling over into PC games as they are being designed for console ports or vice versa. To deny this is foolish imo and Fallout 3 will be the final proof.

Here's hoping The Witcher stays pure and on PC :D.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=88881

This article completely destroys hermits weaksauce arguments against Bioshock in comparison to SS2.

Stonin

No it doesn't, it basically says 'yeah well not much different from SS2 except it's easier and 'more accessable'. What he fails to realise is that the entire ambiance of SS2 came from it's difficulty. You had to approach every single situation bearing in mind what you had in your backpack and how far you were going to need to stretch it. You could save whenever but if you save without ammo there is no coming back.

Bioshock does away with ANY death penalty at all and lost all atmosphere for me because of it. I didn't need to creep anywhere, just run in and kill em, if you don't then hey ho just walk back from the vitachamber and they'll even keep there damage for you *sigh*.

You clearly haven't played SS2 and i'm not sure the author of that article has either.

dont sound like I would want to, I like to have FUN while playing...