EDIT: The previous thread just got locked after days of not locking.
He posted it for me because I don't have 500 posts.
Your original thread just got locked (apparently misleading info), so now this thread is no longer an illegal dupe, although it could also be locked for the same reason I guess?
Sony cant even fix its online and you expect them to counter something as complex and as magical as DX12? ROFL!!!!!!!!! Bookmarked bro. I applaud your ability to go right to the bag on Sony's shaft.
What does an API and online have to do with each other?
The ICE team is gonna make you cry bitch tears to Quatman. :)
Microsoft software engineers > Sony software engineers.
What a baseless assumption and fanboyish claim.
Microsoft's product lines have been riddled with horrible engineering for the past 20 years. Anybody in the software industry knows that. I fight with .NET every single day at work fdespite how powerful it is.
Lol stormyjoe finally exposed as the fevered lem that he is. About time he was honest..
Not at all. Perhaps you should have kept reading...
I am a developer by profession. My actual title is "Director Of Database Administration/Senior Software Engineer", if you must know.
yet you didn't know the differences of a closed company cloud and a regular one or the differences between a normal cloud and a gaming cloud and how they would work, you are an ignorant and no one believes your bullshit basement troll.
Oh, Krelian-co... now I remember why I normally ignore you.
Well, back to the norm...
because i point out your bullshit and make you look like an ignorant fool? yeah.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
@tormentos: I was talking about Sony engineers, not game developers. And, AMD wrote the Mantle API, not Sony.
I am a developer by profession. My actual title is "Director Of Database Administration/Senior Software Engineer", if you must know.
yet you didn't know the differences of a closed company cloud and a regular one or the differences between a normal cloud and a gaming cloud and how they would work, you are an ignorant and no one believes your bullshit basement troll.
Oh, Krelian-co... now I remember why I normally ignore you.
Well, back to the norm...
because i point out your bullshit and make you look like an ignorant fool? yeah.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
or maybe because you claim to work with databases and software and yet you dont have the slightest clue about what you talk about and always look like a moron, even wasdie corrected you because you are just some moron that writes what he reads on some articles, you dont even had the slightest idea about clouds yet you claim you work with them ROFL, and yes that is what stupid people do, hence why you do it. How pathetic it is to lie about what you do on the internet clowny? does it make you feel better about being a failure?
DX12 is going to be great for the gaming in the future. Its too bad its so far away before its universally adopted. That is the biggest hurdle to it. Otherwise its proven itself in all of its tech demos.
I am a developer by profession. My actual title is "Director Of Database Administration/Senior Software Engineer", if you must know.
yet you didn't know the differences of a closed company cloud and a regular one or the differences between a normal cloud and a gaming cloud and how they would work, you are an ignorant and no one believes your bullshit basement troll.
Oh, Krelian-co... now I remember why I normally ignore you.
Well, back to the norm...
because i point out your bullshit and make you look like an ignorant fool? yeah.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
or maybe because you claim to work with databases and software and yet you dont have the slightest clue about what you talk about and always look like a moron, even wasdie corrected you because you are just some moron that writes what he reads on some articles, you dont even had the slightest idea about clouds yet you claim you work with them ROFL, and yes that is what stupid people do, hence why you do it. How pathetic it is to lie about what you do on the internet clowny? does it make you feel better about being a failure?
Wadie and I debated the merits of "which company had the better engineers", not software development nor databases. And I do use Azure - not sure where your pea brain is coming from, but I will play...
Go ahead - ask me anything about software development (non game, I am not a game developer) or databases. As for the cloud - Azure is Azure, you can use it for anything. Your notion of "gaming cloud" vs "application cloud" is a misnomer.
Sorry lemmings. Even Brad Wardell, DX12 hype monkey extraordinaire, can't make the same case for the Bone.
It's over.
Sony cant even fix its online and you expect them to counter something as complex and as magical as DX12? ROFL!!!!!!!!! Bookmarked bro. I applaud your ability to go right to the bag on Sony's shaft.
Ah God give up Grenade, this guy is on a troll spree. It's futile right now.
Thank you Scott. I always take time to recognize people that recognize something I did that was recognizable. Two cheers for you!
EDIT: The previous thread just got locked after days of not locking.
He posted it for me because I don't have 500 posts.
Your original thread just got locked (apparently misleading info), so now this thread is no longer an illegal dupe, although it could also be locked for the same reason I guess?
I'm not sure how it was misleading. There was a direct link to the source material. I entered a paragraph that said Sony will have an answer and the title is the same as the article.
On that note the 500 post rule is dumb. I see much more nonsense posts from guys who have 1000+ posts yet that is acceptable.
EDIT: The previous thread just got locked after days of not locking.
He posted it for me because I don't have 500 posts.
Your original thread just got locked (apparently misleading info), so now this thread is no longer an illegal dupe, although it could also be locked for the same reason I guess?
I'm not sure how it was misleading. There was a direct link to the source material. I entered a paragraph that said Sony will have an answer and the title is the same as the article.
On that note the 500 post rule is dumb. I see much more nonsense posts from guys who have 1000+ posts yet that is acceptable.
I didn't lock it or study it, so I don't know the details.
We used to have a horrible spam problem with brand new accounts advertising and spamming the place up so unfortunately a few legit accounts fall in the cracks with the rule, but ultimately it was good to prevent day one accounts from making 20 spam threads a day. Some bots were doing it too.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
@tormentos: I was talking about Sony engineers, not game developers. And, AMD wrote the Mantle API, not Sony.
WTF you believe that MS has better engineers than Sony actual engineer.?
Are you even freaking listening to your self.? Do you know sony is a hardware company at heart with tons of year of experiences in engineering.? How the fu** if MS has better engineers the xbox one look like a huge 80''s VHS when it has a weak GPU and the same CPU the PS4 has.? Wait how comes the the xbox one is so freaking huge even without an internal PSU.?
Not only the PS4 is stronger,is also smaller lighter and has no power brick yet test done by DF show the PS4 run cooler while gaming... How is that possible hey but wait...
Can you even say that with a straight face after RROD.?
You know the PS3 also had a build in power supply right.? And the 360 didn't and still got hotter right.?
I didn't say Sony write mantle dude i know who did and sony had mantle like performance before Mantle was even created what you sad lemming don't get is that Mantle what does is the same shit console have been doing for year have lower CPU over head.
The same thing DX12 will do and which is late to the party i may add.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
@tormentos: I was talking about Sony engineers, not game developers. And, AMD wrote the Mantle API, not Sony.
WTF you believe that MS has better engineers than Sony actual engineer.?
Are you even freaking listening to your self.? Do you know sony is a hardware company at heart with tons of year of experiences in engineering.? How the fu** if MS has better engineers the xbox one look like a huge 80''s VHS when it has a weak GPU and the same CPU the PS4 has.? Wait how comes the the xbox one is so freaking huge even without an internal PSU.?
Not only the PS4 is stronger,is also smaller lighter and has no power brick yet test done by DF show the PS4 run cooler while gaming... How is that possible hey but wait...
Can you even say that with a straight face after RROD.?
You know the PS3 also had a build in power supply right.? And the 360 didn't and still got hotter right.?
I didn't say Sony write mantle dude i know who did and sony had mantle like performance before Mantle was even created what you sad lemming don't get is that Mantle what does is the same shit console have been doing for year have lower CPU over head.
The same thing DX12 will do and which is late to the party i may add.
Actually. Microsoft hardware is VERY good. The Surface Pro 3 shows that. One of the most known PC/tablet in the market.
...because you don't know what you are talking about. Ever. In fact, I am pretty sure the "you just read articles on the Internet" was a description of yourself.
That, after all, is what stupid people do...
@tormentos: I was talking about Sony engineers, not game developers. And, AMD wrote the Mantle API, not Sony.
WTF you believe that MS has better engineers than Sony actual engineer.?
Are you even freaking listening to your self.? Do you know sony is a hardware company at heart with tons of year of experiences in engineering.? How the fu** if MS has better engineers the xbox one look like a huge 80''s VHS when it has a weak GPU and the same CPU the PS4 has.? Wait how comes the the xbox one is so freaking huge even without an internal PSU.?
Not only the PS4 is stronger,is also smaller lighter and has no power brick yet test done by DF show the PS4 run cooler while gaming... How is that possible hey but wait...
Can you even say that with a straight face after RROD.?
You know the PS3 also had a build in power supply right.? And the 360 didn't and still got hotter right.?
I didn't say Sony write mantle dude i know who did and sony had mantle like performance before Mantle was even created what you sad lemming don't get is that Mantle what does is the same shit console have been doing for year have lower CPU over head.
The same thing DX12 will do and which is late to the party i may add.
Stormy is right. MS engineers are some of the best in the world. I've worked with many of them. I would rank them just behind Google. The question as to why the Xbox One is so big will be answered this year.
There are 3 main components to a product. Engineering, Design and Execution. MS has one of those things lol.
Microsoft software engineers > Sony software engineers.
What a baseless assumption and fanboyish claim.
Microsoft's product lines have been riddled with horrible engineering for the past 20 years. Anybody in the software industry knows that. I fight with .NET every single day at work despite how powerful it is.
You're kidding right?
Sony Smart TV's
PS4 OS
PSVTV
PSN Store
These are things Samsung owns Sony in, features / setup / functionality / stability.
Baseless assumptions you say? How about KNOWN fact. To say Microsoft doesn't, is the fanboyish claim. Microsoft has better engineers than Sony has ever had. 1000's of them. Sony's product line proves this as a fact. Samsung features on their products>>>>>Sony.. let alone Microsoft.
You bring up .NET as an issue or negative. When Sony comes close to writing a program like that please let me know. Hell would freeze over faster.
Sony still hasn't released features they promised for the PS4 OS at launch.. suspend / resume.
The fanboyish statement is for you to even debate Microsoft doesn't have the better software engineers.
Come on dude you're a mod... /smh
You can't be serious with that shit?
A Software Giant worth 400 billion market share. That writes software the world uses.
Comparing them to a hardware company... That loses billions in their hardware divisions.
Sony isn't profitable with their companies biggest strength "Hardware". When you're largest profit margin is life insurance.... and you're a hardware company...?
You actually want to compare their software engineers to Microsoft's...
I see a lot of shit on here.... this almost takes the cake my man.
Only in System Wars would people compare Sony to Microsoft in Software.
I want to write you a letter / email. Give me a minute I have to do some stuff. I'll have it for you at the end of the business day.
1) Open Windows
2) Open Word
3) Open Outlook
4) I forgot that spread sheet.. opens excel.
5) I need to do a little research first on the topic. I'll check Bing with Internet explorer.
6) I'm really going to spice this baby up! Power Point my old friend to the rescue.
7) You still waiting on that letter? I'm so sorry, I was playing a DirectX game on .NET framework. Sorry let me minimize that.
8) Attaches files... Hits the send button in Outlook. Oh shit my hard drive just died.. Not a problem, I'll just hop on my trusty Sony VIAO laptop running Windows 7 since I'm using The Office 365 cloud portal. and sent.
@b4x It's a strawman argument and you are arguing a complete fallacy.
What the guys behind .NET, Outlook, Office or any other software division in Microsoft do has nothing to do with the Xbox One. He just tried to bring in a irrelevant arguing point and you fell right for it.
Obviously Sony doesn't have anything remotely comparable to what Microsoft does software wise because Microsoft is a software company and Sony is a hardware company. Microsoft doesn't make TVs, home theater systems, cameras, speakers, cellphones, headphones and a huge myriad of other products that Sony does. So can I compare the engineering behind that to Microsoft's products? No because it's not applicable. So why are you comparing .NET to what Sony has and saying Microsoft has better engineers (being a massively broad term as there are mechanical, electrical, computer, and software engineers that are applicable to both companies)? Simple fact is it's a damn strawman argument that has no basis and I'm just calling out what I see relevant to this board.
From what we see the PS4 is a better engineered piece of hardware than the Xbox One and from my personal experience so far the PS4's operating system runs smoother and is generally easier to use than the Xbox One. Yes I own both and use them both regularly so I'll consider myself the authority on that. That's the only relevant argument to be had. Nothing else matters. You just made 2 posts that have nothing at all to do with what we were talking about.
I forget this is System Wars where I have to be ridiculously fucking specific in every single thing I say because users like you hang on every god damn word without applying an ounce of logic to anything said. Do you honestly thing I would ever compare the whole of Microsoft's software engineering to Sony's? That's just ridiculous.
@b4x It's a strawman argument and you are arguing a complete fallacy.
What the guys behind .NET, Outlook, Office or any other software division in Microsoft do has nothing to do with the Xbox One. He just tried to bring in a irrelevant arguing point and you fell right for it.
Obviously Sony doesn't have anything remotely comparable to what Microsoft does software wise because Microsoft is a software company and Sony is a hardware company. Microsoft doesn't make TVs, home theater systems, cameras, speakers, cellphones, headphones and a huge myriad of other products that Sony does. So can I compare the engineering behind that to Microsoft's products? No because it's not applicable. So why are you comparing .NET to what Sony has and saying Microsoft has better engineers (being a massively broad term as there are mechanical, electrical, computer, and software engineers that are applicable to both companies)? Simple fact is it's a damn strawman argument that has no basis and I'm just calling out what I see relevant to this board.
From what we see the PS4 is a better engineered piece of hardware than the Xbox One and from my personal experience so far the PS4's operating system runs smoother and is generally easier to use than the Xbox One. Yes I own both and use them both regularly so I'll consider myself the authority on that. That's the only relevant argument to be had. Nothing else matters. You just made 2 posts that have nothing at all to do with what we were talking about.
I forget this is System Wars where I have to be ridiculously fucking specific in every single thing I say because users like you hang on every god damn word without applying an ounce of logic to anything said. Do you honestly thing I would ever compare the whole of Microsoft's software engineering to Sony's? That's just ridiculous.
FreeBSD 9.0 is not Sony..... modified or not. How does a couple script kids working on someone else's OS and software foundations make them Software engineers... in the first place?
Sony software expertise when it comes to comparing them to Xbox One
FreeBSD 9.0
OpenGl
Webkit Based browser based on the webkit core used in Google and Safari.
I just shut my Xbox One off in the middle of a game that I'm going to resume shortly right where I left off.... due to MS OS software engineers capabilities.
It's not a strawman argument... It's facts. I don't care what light you put on it....
The X1 OS>>>> PS4 FreeBSD 9.0 in features... It's not even close. Is it as fast or snappy. Not right now due to its actual complexity and features that real software engineers at Microsoft implemented. Software engineers that will continue to update the OS throughout the lifetime of the system.
Btw the February update is in preview mode. Should release soon.
I'm not trying to be an asshole towards you man.... What you wrote is not right. It's just wrong.
It's /smh wrong.
The fact is what he said is 100% correct.
Microsoft Software engineers >>>> Sony software engineers (If that's what you want to call them.)
All day, everyday. There is no wiggle room or debate. The guys don't even write their own software.
The native operating system of the PlayStation 4 is Orbis OS, which is a fork of FreeBSD version 9.0 which was released on 12 January 2012.[3][4] The PlayStation 4 features two graphics APIs, a low level API named GNMand a high level API named GNMX.[5] Sony's own PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) was introduced on the PlayStation 4.[6]
Do you even know what FreeBSD is? It's a wrapper around Unix. Sony not re-inventing the wheel is a sign of good engineering on their part as there is no reason to redo what's already been done. It's an unnecessary waste of time and money and anybody who actually wants results wouldn't waste their time. Sony branched FreeBSD and modified it to create the PS4's OS. Microsoft didn't start from scratch either. They did the exact same thing that Sony did for the PS4. They grabbed an existing OS, stripped it down, and modified it for the Xbox One. Do you really think the engineers working on the Xbox One wrote their own OS? No! They took an existing one. Nobody is going to start from scratch if they don't have to. If you're insinuating that to be a good engineer you need to start from scratch then you're an idiot who has never spent a day in their life doing any engineering. No competent developer would ever start from scratch with something as robust as an operating system. Google used Linux for Android and Apple's iOS is built around Unix. Apple and Google didn't even start from scratch when developing brand new operating systems for new platforms.
The PS4 does not use OpenGL. They use their own APIs that they developed for the PS4. The PlayStation Shader Language. It's probably based off of OpenGL but so is the majority of DirextX. For the past decade DirectX has been implementing the algorithms written for OpenGL. That's a fact.
Furthermore, unlike you, I actually own both an Xbox One and PS4 so you have absolutely no merit to your unfounded statements about the Xbox One's OS being more snappy. That's a load of horseshit.
Basically you just proved you don't know a god damn thing about computer engineering or software development to make such ridiculous claims.
Good god. Calling them "script kids" for modifying existing software. You really know absolutely nothing about this industry at all and it shows. You're basically calling every single developer, including your precious Microsoft, in the past 20 years of being "script kids". Nobody starts from scratch. The guys who ported over the Windows 8 kernel and modified it for the Xbox One did the exact same as Sony. You've clearly never spent a minute of your life doing any sort of programming or software engineering to make such absolutely ridiculous claims.
I find it ridiculous that I even have to explain to you your own ignorance on the subject.
There is nothing really new in the Xbox One's OS. If you're not going to credit Sony for making an original OS and graphic API for the PS4, you sure as hell can't credit the team behind the Xbox One for creating their own. Those engineers didn't write Windows. Windows has been around for over 20 years. They also didn't write DirectX. They simply took DirectX and modified it for the Xbox One. Just like they did for the Xbox and Xbox 360. The team behind the Xbox One did nothing more than Sony did.
The native operating system of the PlayStation 4 is Orbis OS, which is a fork of FreeBSD version 9.0 which was released on 12 January 2012.[3][4] The PlayStation 4 features two graphics APIs, a low level API named GNMand a high level API named GNMX.[5] Sony's own PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) was introduced on the PlayStation 4.[6]
You really have no idea what you're talking about at all. Do you even know what FreeBSD is? It's a wrapper around Unix. Sony not re-inventing the wheel is a sign of good engineering on their part as there is no reason to redo what's already been done. Microsoft didn't start from scratch either. They grabbed their existing OS, stripped it down, and modified it for the Xbox One. Nobody is going to start from scratch if they don't have to. If you're insinuating that to be a good engineer you need to start from scratch then you're an idiot who has never spent a day in their life doing any engineering. No competent developer would ever start from scratch with something as robust as an operating system. Even Google used Linux for Android and iOS is built around Unix. Apple and Google didn't even start from scratch when developing brand new operating systems for new platforms.
The PS4 does not use OpenGL. They use their own APIs that they developed for the PS4. The PlayStation Shader Language. It's probably based off of OpenGL but so is the majority of DirextX. For the past decade DirectX has been implementing the algorithms written for OpenGL. That's a fact.
Furthermore unlike you I actually own an Xbox One and PS4 so you have absolutely no merit to your unfounded statements about the Xbox One's OS being more snappy. That's a load of horseshit.
Basically you just proved you don't know a god damn thing about computer engineering or software development to make such ridiculous claims.
Unix.. check. I did know that but thanks anyways.
I said the PS4 OS was faster at this point.
Is it as fast or snappy. Not right now due to its actual complexity and features that real software engineers at Microsoft implemented. Software engineers that will continue to update the OS throughout the lifetime of the system.
Should have been a "?" after snappy. "Not right Now" means the X1s 3 OS running at the same time, is slower.
You know I own both consoles too.. X1 OS>>>PS4 OS. The only thing the PS4's barebones OS has on X1 is it's a little faster.
This argument reminds me of that debate of you comparing online services between the two companies. :D
We get it. Sony>>>>MS when it comes to software OS on consoles.
Sony Software Engineers are on Par with Microsoft engineers. Better when it comes to console software.
They're so good, that bare bones OS only needs 3 gigs of ram to run on the PS4. Image when those gifted engineers at Sony actually add the features they promised at the beginning of the gen. /winning
I wonder what both OS's will look like by the time Sony adds those promised features?
If it's not a fact Microsoft engineers are not better than Sony's then don't use .NET as an example. Sony could never write that code on their best day. Even with their red hats on.
The guy that draws up the engineering blueprints>>> the guy building the structure.
Should have been a "?" after snappy. "Not right Now" means the X1 3 OS running at the same time, is slower.
This is just confusing. Are you saying it's as smooth as an experience or it will be in the future?
You know I own both consoles too.. X1 OS>>>PS4 OS. The only thing the PS4's barebones OS has on X1 is it's a little faster.
The only part of the Xbox One's OS that is blatantly better than the PS4's is the ability to directly stream media from a Windows machine to the Xbox One. Everything else is done better on the PS4 as of right now including basic party functionality (snapping on the Xbox One and PIP is horrifically slow and cumbersome and needs some serious wrok). I'm actually surprised the Xbox One's OS is so far behind because throughout last gen the Xbox 360 was a much easier to use system with many more features OS wise than the PS3. It's a major step back in all of the wrong areas.
Their so good, that bare bones OS only needs 3 gigs of ram to run on the PS4. Image when those gifted engineers at Sony actually add the features they promised at the beginning of the gen. /winning
Unless you've got a citation there, I believe the PS4's OS has been given 2 gbs. With a game console you can never increase the footprint of the OS. Both the PS4's and Xbox One's operating systems have allocated more RAM and CPU cores/time than they need. Since the hardware is fixed you can't grow the OS or earlier games on the system will have performance issues. You can always decrease the footprint.
The guy that draws up the engineering blueprints>>> the guy building the structure.
This isn't at all how software engineering or computer engineering works. The guy designing the system is usually the guy developing the system too. It's not like building a building. The architect doesn't just draw up the blueprints and oversees the building. The designers are not just designing, but they are developing, testing, and constantly iterating on their own design to solve problems that they didn't originally see. You never get it right the first time, nor do you get it right the first one hundred times. With engineering you find a solution that does its best to solve all of the known problems and meets all of the current demands. Over time you continue to make your solution more robust and more efficient as the problems become larger in scope and more numerous.
I believe his original statement was "Microsoft software engineers > Sony software engineers.". So why are you arguing for hardware?
That still doesn't say much. Microsoft and Sony are both very large companies with a lot of software developers under them. Most do not work on the consoles so you can't just take what Microsoft is doing with .NET or Sony is doing with their video editing software or software for their smart TVs and apply it to the consoles.
So really it's still a straw-man argument as it's trying to argue a separate point in lieu of the topic at hand. We see nothing outrageously better in the Xbox One over the PS4 software wise and there is no indication at all that the PS4's graphical API is falling behind that of the Xbox One's right now.
Bringing the discussion back to the original topic, DX12 should be a great upgrade to that API. OpenGL Next is aiming to do the same thing as DX12 is on the PC so we have that to look forward too as well.
However on the consoles the APIs are much different. Every major console in the past few generations has had an API customized directly for the hardware. This has allowed consoles to get a lot better performance out of the hardware than a PC equivalent using PC based DirectX or OpenGL. Thus the move to DirectX 12 will not have as big of an impact on Xbox One graphical performance. I'm sure there will be some increases here and there, but the real upgrade will be in additional functionality brought on by a new API, convenience features, and keeping the code base similar to that of the PC thus making it easier to port between the Xbox One and PC. That's a huge benefit for devs.
The experience is smoother for me on the X1.. It is not as straight forward at all. It will put people off.
Here's some tips.. not saying you need them. This is without Kinect mind you.
Never enter system settings from anywhere on the console, than from the menu button on the controller or remote. /never
After performing any task on the console. Never use the B button to get back to the home page. Unless you're just trying to go back one page in the app you're in at the time.
EDIT: Never hit the B button while you're on your home page. It will launch the last app you were in.
That one pissed me off. You'll find yourself doing it. If you do... hit the guide button>menu button>quit.
ALWAYS tap the guide button once to return home. Now apps do not close by themselves. When you tap the guide button you will be on the app you were using in the home page window. Hit the menu button on the controller and hit quit. You can do this for any of the last 5 apps that you have used from the home page, even snapped apps. You can also keep them open for speed. I close mine.
Never pin an item that can be accessed from the controller menu. Never pin a CD based game. Never pin a system based item.
Always use the menu button on a highlighted app to manage it or see content in the store.
The menu button is basically the guide button on the X1. When comparing to the 360.
The guide button to me is like alt + tab on the pc. Lets you hop around from app to app faster.
I use 3 buttons mainly to get around the X1. A / Guide / Menu.. That's it
When I first got the console I hated the OS... It felt clunky. Once I adhered to the method I described. It was night an day.
Want to do anything in game just snap it, or guide button out of the game and do it.
Is it perfect... no. I love it though. Hated it for like the first couple months. I couldn't go back the 360 OS now.
@Wasdie: We could debate the complexity of the OS till kingdom come as I find the XBOX ones OS to be much more modular and well design than the PS4's but its simply a matter of opinion. Suspend resume, snap, streaming, and etc. Where as Playstation has issues with sending messages. Does not multitask two separate aps, nore does it suspend.
Everything about the win10 and dx12 transition will be nice it will add more functionality but I agree its mostly back end improvements. I look forward to what a unified store will bring .
On a side note I find Microsofts development tools to be top Notch I've not found a better IDE than Visual studio. Portions of .net have gone open source so maybe Mono will get more robust.
@Wasdie: This isn't at all how software engineering or computer engineering works. The guy designing the system is usually the guy developing the system too. It's not like building a building. The architect doesn't just draw up the blueprints and oversees the building.
It depends on a few things. One of them is the size of the company. MS and AMD have multiple Architect Working Groups and none of these guys code. Sure they know how to code but they're too busy at the 1000ft view. The stuff is just way too complex to design and code up in a few meetings. Consider the DX12 lead who presented DX for the first time. He has to work with so many groups that he cannot just dictate the direction of Direct X. Its too important and complex for the company.
I think you guys are arguing in circles. Both of you are entitled to your opinion.
Actually. Microsoft hardware is VERY good. The Surface Pro 3 shows that. One of the most known PC/tablet in the market.
Yeah look at the xbox 360 and tell me that again,over 1.1 billion in repairs the biggest fail rate the console market has ever seen by far,every one i know who owns a 360 had it fail at least once,i pass over 2.
When it comes to engineering sony has a huge gap on MS is not even debatable.
@ttboy said:
Stormy is right. MS engineers are some of the best in the world. I've worked with many of them. I would rank them just behind Google. The question as to why the Xbox One is so big will be answered this year.
There are 3 main components to a product. Engineering, Design and Execution. MS has one of those things lol.
No he isn't he say MS engineers >>>>> Sony engineers which is a total joke sony is a hardware company at heart,sony even created the CPU and GPU on its first 2 consoles unlike MS,sega or even nintendo.
Yeah i believe you...lol
The question about why the xbox one is so big was answer long ago tdkmilksy,MS engineer like shit,all their 3 platforms have been huge,the original xbox didn't even get a re design,while it took MS 5 years to deliver a redesign xbox 360,it took sony 3 years last gen to deliver the slim,even that it arrived 1 year latter.
Again the xbox one is a huge VHS because.
1.MS wanted to avoid RROD 2.0
2.Because they suck and designing hardware.
3.The xbox one soc sucks ass and has irrelevant crap which other wise would not be there if they would have chose GDDR5.
@b4x said:
You're kidding right?
Sony Smart TV's
PS4 OS
PSVTV
PSN Store
These are things Samsung owns Sony in, features / setup / functionality / stability.
Baseless assumptions you say? How about KNOWN fact. To say Microsoft doesn't, is the fanboyish claim. Microsoft has better engineers than Sony has ever had. 1000's of them. Sony's product line proves this as a fact. Samsung features on their products>>>>>Sony.. let alone Microsoft.
You bring up .NET as an issue or negative. When Sony comes close to writing a program like that please let me know. Hell would freeze over faster.
Sony still hasn't released features they promised for the PS4 OS at launch.. suspend / resume.
The fanboyish statement is for you to even debate Microsoft doesn't have the better software engineers.
Come on dude you're a mod... /smh
You can't be serious with that shit?
A Software Giant worth 400 billion market share. That writes software the world uses.
Comparing them to a hardware company... That loses billions in their hardware divisions.
Sony isn't profitable with their companies biggest strength "Hardware". When you're largest profit margin is life insurance.... and you're a hardware company...?
You actually want to compare their software engineers to Microsoft's...
I see a lot of shit on here.... this almost takes the cake my man.
First of all where is MS line of TV.? because trying to say that MS has better engineers than sony Blakcace,but ringing samsung as ammo is a joke,where are MS line of TV make by THEM MS basically outsource all its hardware to 3rd parties,much like the xbox one isn't built with a single tech from MS,all MS did pic DDR3 over GDDR5 and compensate with ESRAM which they don't produce either,MS is a software company at heart not a hardware one,sony outsource consoles since the PS3 the first 2 were made by SONY it self on their own factories.
When has MS produce something other than a stolen OS from another company we all know the story of MS dude.
Software is what keep MS alive,MS on their hardware products is a total failure and if it was by MS hardware that the company got its profits it would be bankrupt by now,MS hardware products are hardly leaders on their markets.
Zune destroyed by Ipod.
Xbox destruyed by twice Sony and once by Nintendo even with a 1 year head start.
Windows phones been Android bitch and even Apple bitch to.
Surface tables the same bitch slap by android and ios.
As a hardware company MS doesn't cut it and all it has does is loss billions and billions,reason why some investors are freaking bore of the xbox and MS hardware division and want them to focus on software.
Having profits doesn't depend on how good your engineers are,you can have the best and if your products isn't selling well is a loss cause,sony had some great products and some bad ones like any company.
Sony is not a software company at heart so it is software wise as good as MS would be making TVs...lol
@b4x said:
FreeBSD 9.0 is not Sony..... modified or not. How does a couple script kids working on someone else's OS and software foundations make them Software engineers... in the first place?
Sony software expertise when it comes to comparing them to Xbox One
FreeBSD 9.0
OpenGl
Webkit Based browser based on the webkit core used in Google and Safari.
I just shut my Xbox One off in the middle of a game that I'm going to resume shortly right where I left off.... due to MS OS software engineers capabilities.
It's not a strawman argument... It's facts. I don't care what light you put on it....
The X1 OS>>>> PS4 FreeBSD 9.0 in features... It's not even close. Is it as fast or snappy. Not right now due to its actual complexity and features that real software engineers at Microsoft implemented. Software engineers that will continue to update the OS throughout the lifetime of the system.
Btw the February update is in preview mode. Should release soon.
I'm not trying to be an asshole towards you man.... What you wrote is not right. It's just wrong.
It's /smh wrong.
The fact is what he said is 100% correct.
Microsoft Software engineers >>>> Sony software engineers (If that's what you want to call them.)
All day, everyday. There is no wiggle room or debate. The guys don't even write their own software.
Oh for god sake man stop MS freaking stole Windows from Apple,and apple stole it from unix,the xbox all of them use modify version of Windows,the xbox one run 3 freaking os which is the reason why its UI is slower and less smooth than the PS4 one.
Call me when MS does even a fu**ing toaster...
Sony was manufacturing products before MS was even founded,and the fun thing is that even with less friendly software and cumbersome hardware like last gen the best looking games were on PS3,the games with more graphics awards won were on PS3 even that it had a weaker GPU.
What MS call DX12 sony already had it on the PS3 and even lower level than MS,when MS wasn't thinking about low level api sony already had one,when MS was thinking about lower level api sony was already thinking about DRIVER level that is how ahead sony was.
Hell even MS cloud sony had that idea with the PS3,and sony was thinking of using PS3 to stream power from one to another,and in practice it was done,the PS3 runs folding home which basically what does is use the PS3 as outsourced PC's to do protein simulation using many PS3 at the same time.
Opengl is not what runs on PS4 is Sony own language dude,it has Opengl4.4+ features and we all know how DX is opengl bitch what Opengl incorporate,now MS take it 2 or 3 years latter and made a parade about how great they are and morons like you fall for it.
One of the biggest examples of this is Virtual texturing which has been supported by Opengl for a long time before hardware support partially resident textures arrived,and when PRT arrived it was again Opengl in the forefront since Direct3d didn't support it,it was until 2013 that MS started supporting Tile resources in DX and they try to sold it as something unique when in fact it wasn't it was the same shit as PRT with a different name,confirmed by middle ware developers them self like granite..
The same with mantle and this thread prove it,DX12 is a late response to Mantle,lol even AMD another hardware company beat MS to the punch on its own OS..lol
But DirectX 12? In theory, all your cores can talk to the GPU simultaneously. Mantle already does this and the results are spectacular. In fact, most benchmarks that have been talked about have been understated because they seem unbelievable.
From this own thread..
MS is late and even hardware companies like sony and AMD went ahead of them...lol
I hate the clustered OS of the xboxone. I also hate how the xboxone struggles on some apps. Skyping while in games as it loads shows how weak the system is.
The only thing that OS has going for it is the settings key on the xbox. Everything is just plain cluttered. I really hope the new OS rumors are true because I would love to see it replaced.
I hate the clustered OS of the xboxone. I also hate how the xboxone struggles on some apps. Skyping while in games as it loads shows how weak the system is.
The only thing that OS has going for it is the settings key on the xbox. Everything is just plain cluttered. I really hope the new OS rumors are true because I would love to see it replaced.
Is this what you are talking about?
I do think almost every app and game that is compiled on Windows 10 PC and Windows 10 Mobile will come to the Xbox. Which will be amazing
Actually. Microsoft hardware is VERY good. The Surface Pro 3 shows that. One of the most known PC/tablet in the market.
Yeah look at the xbox 360 and tell me that again,over 1.1 billion in repairs the biggest fail rate the console market has ever seen by far,every one i know who owns a 360 had it fail at least once,i pass over 2.
When it comes to engineering sony has a huge gap on MS is not even debatable.
@ttboy said:
Stormy is right. MS engineers are some of the best in the world. I've worked with many of them. I would rank them just behind Google. The question as to why the Xbox One is so big will be answered this year.
There are 3 main components to a product. Engineering, Design and Execution. MS has one of those things lol.
No he isn't he say MS engineers >>>>> Sony engineers which is a total joke sony is a hardware company at heart,sony even created the CPU and GPU on its first 2 consoles unlike MS,sega or even nintendo.
Yeah i believe you...lol
The question about why the xbox one is so big was answer long ago tdkmilksy,MS engineer like shit,all their 3 platforms have been huge,the original xbox didn't even get a re design,while it took MS 5 years to deliver a redesign xbox 360,it took sony 3 years last gen to deliver the slim,even that it arrived 1 year latter.
Again the xbox one is a huge VHS because.
1.MS wanted to avoid RROD 2.0
2.Because they suck and designing hardware.
3.The xbox one soc sucks ass and has irrelevant crap which other wise would not be there if they would have chose GDDR5.
@b4x said:
You're kidding right?
Sony Smart TV's
PS4 OS
PSVTV
PSN Store
These are things Samsung owns Sony in, features / setup / functionality / stability.
Baseless assumptions you say? How about KNOWN fact. To say Microsoft doesn't, is the fanboyish claim. Microsoft has better engineers than Sony has ever had. 1000's of them. Sony's product line proves this as a fact. Samsung features on their products>>>>>Sony.. let alone Microsoft.
You bring up .NET as an issue or negative. When Sony comes close to writing a program like that please let me know. Hell would freeze over faster.
Sony still hasn't released features they promised for the PS4 OS at launch.. suspend / resume.
The fanboyish statement is for you to even debate Microsoft doesn't have the better software engineers.
Come on dude you're a mod... /smh
You can't be serious with that shit?
A Software Giant worth 400 billion market share. That writes software the world uses.
Comparing them to a hardware company... That loses billions in their hardware divisions.
Sony isn't profitable with their companies biggest strength "Hardware". When you're largest profit margin is life insurance.... and you're a hardware company...?
You actually want to compare their software engineers to Microsoft's...
I see a lot of shit on here.... this almost takes the cake my man.
First of all where is MS line of TV.? because trying to say that MS has better engineers than sony Blakcace,but ringing samsung as ammo is a joke,where are MS line of TV make by THEM MS basically outsource all its hardware to 3rd parties,much like the xbox one isn't built with a single tech from MS,all MS did pic DDR3 over GDDR5 and compensate with ESRAM which they don't produce either,MS is a software company at heart not a hardware one,sony outsource consoles since the PS3 the first 2 were made by SONY it self on their own factories.
When has MS produce something other than a stolen OS from another company we all know the story of MS dude.
Software is what keep MS alive,MS on their hardware products is a total failure and if it was by MS hardware that the company got its profits it would be bankrupt by now,MS hardware products are hardly leaders on their markets.
Zune destroyed by Ipod.
Xbox destruyed by twice Sony and once by Nintendo even with a 1 year head start.
Windows phones been Android bitch and even Apple bitch to.
Surface tables the same bitch slap by android and ios.
As a hardware company MS doesn't cut it and all it has does is loss billions and billions,reason why some investors are freaking bore of the xbox and MS hardware division and want them to focus on software.
Having profits doesn't depend on how good your engineers are,you can have the best and if your products isn't selling well is a loss cause,sony had some great products and some bad ones like any company.
Sony is not a software company at heart so it is software wise as good as MS would be making TVs...lol
@b4x said:
FreeBSD 9.0 is not Sony..... modified or not. How does a couple script kids working on someone else's OS and software foundations make them Software engineers... in the first place?
Sony software expertise when it comes to comparing them to Xbox One
FreeBSD 9.0
OpenGl
Webkit Based browser based on the webkit core used in Google and Safari.
I just shut my Xbox One off in the middle of a game that I'm going to resume shortly right where I left off.... due to MS OS software engineers capabilities.
It's not a strawman argument... It's facts. I don't care what light you put on it....
The X1 OS>>>> PS4 FreeBSD 9.0 in features... It's not even close. Is it as fast or snappy. Not right now due to its actual complexity and features that real software engineers at Microsoft implemented. Software engineers that will continue to update the OS throughout the lifetime of the system.
Btw the February update is in preview mode. Should release soon.
I'm not trying to be an asshole towards you man.... What you wrote is not right. It's just wrong.
It's /smh wrong.
The fact is what he said is 100% correct.
Microsoft Software engineers >>>> Sony software engineers (If that's what you want to call them.)
All day, everyday. There is no wiggle room or debate. The guys don't even write their own software.
Oh for god sake man stop MS freaking stole Windows from Apple,and apple stole it from unix,the xbox all of them use modify version of Windows,the xbox one run 3 freaking os which is the reason why its UI is slower and less smooth than the PS4 one.
Call me when MS does even a fu**ing toaster...
Sony was manufacturing products before MS was even founded,and the fun thing is that even with less friendly software and cumbersome hardware like last gen the best looking games were on PS3,the games with more graphics awards won were on PS3 even that it had a weaker GPU.
What MS call DX12 sony already had it on the PS3 and even lower level than MS,when MS wasn't thinking about low level api sony already had one,when MS was thinking about lower level api sony was already thinking about DRIVER level that is how ahead sony was.
Hell even MS cloud sony had that idea with the PS3,and sony was thinking of using PS3 to stream power from one to another,and in practice it was done,the PS3 runs folding home which basically what does is use the PS3 as outsourced PC's to do protein simulation using many PS3 at the same time.
Opengl is not what runs on PS4 is Sony own language dude,it has Opengl4.4+ features and we all know how DX is opengl bitch what Opengl incorporate,now MS take it 2 or 3 years latter and made a parade about how great they are and morons like you fall for it.
One of the biggest examples of this is Virtual texturing which has been supported by Opengl for a long time before hardware support partially resident textures arrived,and when PRT arrived it was again Opengl in the forefront since Direct3d didn't support it,it was until 2013 that MS started supporting Tile resources in DX and they try to sold it as something unique when in fact it wasn't it was the same shit as PRT with a different name,confirmed by middle ware developers them self like granite..
The same with mantle and this thread prove it,DX12 is a late response to Mantle,lol even AMD another hardware company beat MS to the punch on its own OS..lol
But DirectX 12? In theory, all your cores can talk to the GPU simultaneously. Mantle already does this and the results are spectacular. In fact, most benchmarks that have been talked about have been understated because they seem unbelievable.
From this own thread..
MS is late and even hardware companies like sony and AMD went ahead of them...lol
I want to ask. Have you actually tried the Surface Pro 3? It's an amazing piece of art. If you haven't you have no right whatsoever to comment about Microsoft's modern hardware
I hate the clustered OS of the xboxone. I also hate how the xboxone struggles on some apps. Skyping while in games as it loads shows how weak the system is.
The only thing that OS has going for it is the settings key on the xbox. Everything is just plain cluttered. I really hope the new OS rumors are true because I would love to see it replaced.
Is this what you are talking about?
I do think almost every app and game that is compiled on Windows 10 PC and Windows 10 Mobile will come to the Xbox. Which will be amazing
your lack of knowledge on how things work deeply disturbs me
Excuse me? What are you talking about. Majority of the stuff is already here. Look at universal apps and ALSO Build 2014. You can't get over the fact if Microsoft opens up the store and get apps from the PC, Tablet and Phone it will be pretty much squash Sony's indie efforts
Excuse me? What are you talking about. Majority of the stuff is already here. Look at universal apps and ALSO Build 2014. You can't get over the fact if Microsoft opens up the store and get apps from the PC, Tablet and Phone it will be pretty much squash Sony's indie efforts
you are making my assumption about you completely right, another ignorant lem that talk without having a clue.
Dude. I'm a developer and was at the build 2014 event. Are you even a developer?. . If you aren't. then you pretty much have no right to question developers. In a developer's perspective Microsoft's got some revolutionary stuff for us developers
Dude. I'm a developer and was at the build 2014 event. Are you even a developer?. . If you aren't. then you pretty much have no right to question developers. In a developer's perspective Microsoft's got some revolutionary stuff for us developers
you are not aa developer, your ignorant comments pretty much prove so, but then agakn feel free to say anything you want it is the internet after all, hello i am bill gates.
@Krelian-co: You have yet to say anything to prove him wrong, all your doing is hurling insults without actually displaying any actual knowledge on what your talking about, so please explain what is off base about what he said in regards to win 10?
@Krelian-co: You have yet to say anything to prove him wrong, all your doing is hurling insults without actually displaying any actual knowledge on what your talking about, so please explain what is off base about what he said in regards to win 10?
i am not here to teach kiddies, let him talk anything he wants, anyone who has knowled about the stuff will just laugh and move on
@Krelian-co: You have yet to say anything to prove him wrong, all your doing is hurling insults without actually displaying any actual knowledge on what your talking about, so please explain what is off base about what he said in regards to win 10?
i am not here to teach kiddies, let him talk anything he wants, anyone who has knowled about the stuff will just laugh and move on
Actually. I'm 18 years old and go to university studying computer science and media design So I'm not a kid. You can't deny that all these are already a reality. Universal Apps, that work on PC, Tablet and Phone in Windows 8.1. One purchase for multiple devices.. Xbox One SDK leak which means that pretty much anyone with developer knowledge can make Xbox One apps. In Windows 10 they are simply extending it to other devices and announcing features that are already here. I guess the reason why you're in denial is because Sony will be VERY behind in apps and indie games if this happens
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