Suda51 EDGE Interview - No More Wii?

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#1 Posted by Slashkice (13092 posts) -


"It's like taking a **** says Goichi Suda, Grasshopper Manafacture CEO, as he relaxes on his (office) seat. We blink first. "A lot of things influenced No More Heroes - things I saw, or heard, and something that came from inside. Something that needed to be eliminated from my body, like waste. That's why I created No More Heroes.
Edge goes on to write about how his colleagues are smirking and his translator becomes hesitant. "...No More Heroes 2? New taking-a-****."

Suda claims the AI has been improved and enemies will now attack depending on their ****and weapon, being ranged or more up in your face. They say the dual beam katana is pretty and the animation is suitably awesome with "effortless ****". "It's a spectacle as much as a slaughter."

On secondary playable characters: They'll each have their own ****and cool factor. Will Travis be overshadowed? Hardly. "He gets to pilot a giant robot! This lets you fight on a larger scale - there will be plenty more variety as well."

The game's city has been scaled back a little bit, improved visually with motion blue and HDR lighting. Suda says it's closer to the game he wanted to deliver originally. Edge says the city is a lot more lively and the streets more populated. He describes it as one-and-a-half times the original.

Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.

On No More Heroes as a franchise: "I think this is the last NMH that is going to be developed on Wii. To expand NMH to new possibilities, we need a new platform. Wii is a great platform, but we've done everything we can with it now."

Edge

Source: EDGE August '09 Issue

It'll be weird to play a NMH game without the Wii controls, but I'm curious to see what Suda has planned for the other platforms.

Anyways, the game sounds like it's turning out great. 2010!

#2 Posted by KungfuKitten (20976 posts) -
I can understand him, but if he wants to play it big, he will have to normalize his games. And that would be kind of sad :(
#3 Posted by IronBass (21208 posts) -
I can understand him, but if he wants to play it big, he will have to normalize his games.(KungfuKitten
Or at least not market them with toilet paper :P
#4 Posted by VGobbsesser (15614 posts) -

If No More Heroes comes out for another system,I am getting that system as soon as possible; yes,I'm that big of a Goichi Suda and No More Heroes fanboy.

#5 Posted by dgsag (6760 posts) -
Add the fact that his games aren't selling that well, and I wouldn't blame them for having their next project be a PC, PS3, 360 one.
#6 Posted by KungfuKitten (20976 posts) -
[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]I can understand him, but if he wants to play it big, he will have to normalize his games.(IronBass
Or at least not market them with toilet paper :P

Aww yeah, that was really sad. I send him a message after that to comfort him, it hit him hard.
#7 Posted by -Oath (8014 posts) -

Meh, sure a longer and graphically enhance NMH would be great but it just wouldnt feel the same on the Wii :(

W/e, cant wait for 2!!!!!

#8 Posted by Haziqonfire (36344 posts) -
Add the fact that his games aren't selling that well, and I wouldn't blame them for having their next project be a PC, PS3, 360 one.dgsag
NMH has actually sold pretty well - but a lot of his titles are niche.
#9 Posted by -PuLse (538 posts) -

I'm surprised he hasn't been insulted yet and called a "Cow" or the other farmhouse names.

#10 Posted by DeathScape666 (8599 posts) -
'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.
#11 Posted by DeathScape666 (8599 posts) -

I'm surprised he hasn't been insulted yet and called a "Cow" or the other farmhouse names.

-PuLse
'On No More Heroes as a franchise: "I think this is the last NMH that is going to be developed on Wii. To expand NMH to new possibilities, we need a new platform. Wii is a great platform, but we've done everything we can with it now."' He sounds pretty respectful about it. Why would we insult him, especially after giving us such a high quality game (soon to be two)? That's more than can be said about a lot of third party developers on the Wii, although, that is starting to change.
#12 Posted by Thunderdrone (5598 posts) -
He wants to make more NMHs? And lol at finishing moves mapped to buttons.
#13 Posted by VGobbsesser (15614 posts) -

'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.DeathScape666

Considering No More Heroes was designed to be a punishing,twisted game in one sense (from what I've gathered),his answer seems like exactly what I'd expect him to say.

#14 Posted by Thunderdrone (5598 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeathScape666"] Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game

He knows its tedious and stupid, thats why its there. Thats Suda for you, and thats why his games are not for everyone. You have to be able to appretiate the guy's humour and subliminal messages if you want to stick to his games, otherwise you're just pushing him to be more mainstream....and thats not good.
#15 Posted by dotWithShoes (4838 posts) -
it honestly sounds like to me he's planning on the 'Wii 2'
#16 Posted by DeathScape666 (8599 posts) -

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.VGobbsesser

Considering No More Heroes was designed to be a punishing,twisted game in one sense (from what I've gathered),his answer seems like exactly what I'd expect him to say.

So he's sacrificing fun gameplay to make an artistic statement of some sort? That's ridiculous.
#17 Posted by BoloTheGreat (3483 posts) -
Well I'm not surprised, the biggest indictment of the original NMH was its graphics. They were eye bleeding IMO, if the game had been on 360 and PS3 i could see it being so much more than it is/was on the Wii. The technical possibilities are just so much larger for a publishing house that obviously jerks off over it's own ambition (in a good way :) ). Many others have come out and said flatly that the Wii is inadequate to fulfil their ambitions.
#18 Posted by VGobbsesser (15614 posts) -

So he's sacrificing fun gameplay to make an artistic statement of some sort? That's ridiculous.DeathScape666

Yep.He's basically the most pretentious game designer out there.And that's part of why I'm such of big fan of his games.

#19 Posted by Thunderdrone (5598 posts) -

So he's sacrificing fun gameplay to make an artistic statement of some sort? That's ridiculous.DeathScape666

Yup.

But heres the thing, if you do apretiate his artistic statements...you are enjoying yourself.

#20 Posted by dotWithShoes (4838 posts) -
Well I'm not surprised, the biggest indictment of the original NMH was its graphics. They were eye bleeding IMO, if the game had been on 360 and PS3 i could see it being so much more than it is/was on the Wii. The technical possibilities are just so much larger for a publishing house that obviously jerks off over it's own ambition (in a good way :) ). Many others have come out and said flatly that the Wii is inadequate to fulfil their ambitions. BoloTheGreat
The ps3/360 are inadequate to fulfill a lot of devs ambitions.
#21 Posted by TreyoftheDead (7982 posts) -

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.DeathScape666

Considering No More Heroes was designed to be a punishing,twisted game in one sense (from what I've gathered),his answer seems like exactly what I'd expect him to say.

So he's sacrificing fun gameplay to make an artistic statement of some sort? That's ridiculous.

And yet people still bought and enjoyed the hell out of his game. When you are creating something...you shouldn't always cater to what you think audiences will like.

#22 Posted by Thunderdrone (5598 posts) -
Well I'm not surprised, the biggest indictment of the original NMH was its graphics. They were eye bleeding IMO, if the game had been on 360 and PS3 i could see it being so much more than it is/was on the Wii. BoloTheGreat
If you believe NMH looked like that because it was on the Wii, you know nothing about that system.
#23 Posted by BoloTheGreat (3483 posts) -
[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"] Well I'm not surprised, the biggest indictment of the original NMH was its graphics. They were eye bleeding IMO, if the game had been on 360 and PS3 i could see it being so much more than it is/was on the Wii. Thunderdrone
If you believe NMH looked like that because it was on the Wii, you know nothing about that system.

I had huge blatant jaggies and very low res textures, the art was good but the technical side of things was rather lacking. Yes it WAS mainly due to the system.
#24 Posted by BoloTheGreat (3483 posts) -
[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"]Well I'm not surprised, the biggest indictment of the original NMH was its graphics. They were eye bleeding IMO, if the game had been on 360 and PS3 i could see it being so much more than it is/was on the Wii. The technical possibilities are just so much larger for a publishing house that obviously jerks off over it's own ambition (in a good way :) ). Many others have come out and said flatly that the Wii is inadequate to fulfil their ambitions. dotWithShoes
The ps3/360 are inadequate to fulfill a lot of devs ambitions.

How so, they have a MUCH better on-line community for a start. By like a factor of 1000.
#25 Posted by nchan (1059 posts) -
Moving No More Heroes to 360 and PS3 would be a financial disaster for his company. Game developments cost too much on the other platforms. Look at Factor 5, Lair flopped in sales and score, the company went bankrupt. Silicon Knight, Too Human flopped in sales and score, we have not heard anything from them. We most likely not gonna see another game from Silicon Knight this gen. Both of these two developers were very successful last gen on the Gamecube.
#26 Posted by Javy03 (6886 posts) -
Moving No More Heroes to 360 and PS3 would be a financial disaster for his company. Game developments cost too much on the other platforms. Look at Factor 5, Lair flopped in sales and score, the company went bankrupt. Silicon Knight, Too Human flopped in sales and score, we have not heard anything from them. We most likely not gonna see another game from Silicon Knight this gen. Both of these two developers were very successful last gen on the Gamecube. nchan
Hate to tell you but NMH hasn't sold very well on the Wii and I highly doubt it would sell worse on three other systems combined, PC/360/PS3. And Suda's style is not to make HUGE budget games. Suda is not a company that makes huge blockbusters so I doubt they are expecting to change that around on one try but what they are doing, which is smart, is appeal to their target audience. Their sarcastic, 16-24, gore seeking target audience that exist to a larger extent on the 360/PS3PC.
#27 Posted by nchan (1059 posts) -
[QUOTE="nchan"]Moving No More Heroes to 360 and PS3 would be a financial disaster for his company. Game developments cost too much on the other platforms. Look at Factor 5, Lair flopped in sales and score, the company went bankrupt. Silicon Knight, Too Human flopped in sales and score, we have not heard anything from them. We most likely not gonna see another game from Silicon Knight this gen. Both of these two developers were very successful last gen on the Gamecube. Javy03
Hate to tell you but NMH hasn't sold very well on the Wii and I highly doubt it would sell worse on three other systems combined, PC/360/PS3. And Suda's style is not to make HUGE budget games. Suda is not a company that makes huge blockbusters so I doubt they are expecting to change that around on one try but what they are doing, which is smart, is appeal to their target audience. Their sarcastic, 16-24, gore seeking target audience that exist to a larger extent on the 360/PS3PC.

That is exactly my point. NMH appeal to a very limited audience. Imagine the game development cost triple for the other platforms and the game still doesn't sell. That would be a financial disaster for them.
#28 Posted by Thunderdrone (5598 posts) -

I had huge blatant jaggies and very low res textures, the art was good but the technical side of things was rather lacking. Yes it WAS mainly due to the system. BoloTheGreat

No, it wasnt.

These are real in-game Brawl pics taken by GAFers...

Notice how clean it looks, and how it has detailed textures. Yeah, its the same hardware for both games.

#29 Posted by Oscar-Wilde (1675 posts) -

[QUOTE="nchan"]Moving No More Heroes to 360 and PS3 would be a financial disaster for his company. Game developments cost too much on the other platforms. Look at Factor 5, Lair flopped in sales and score, the company went bankrupt. Silicon Knight, Too Human flopped in sales and score, we have not heard anything from them. We most likely not gonna see another game from Silicon Knight this gen. Both of these two developers were very successful last gen on the Gamecube. Javy03
Hate to tell you but NMH hasn't sold very well on the Wii and I highly doubt it would sell worse on three other systems combined, PC/360/PS3. And Suda's style is not to make HUGE budget games. Suda is not a company that makes huge blockbusters so I doubt they are expecting to change that around on one try but what they are doing, which is smart, is appeal to their target audience. Their sarcastic, 16-24, gore seeking target audience that exist to a larger extent on the 360/PS3PC.

Let's be completely honest here, their games won't sell regardless to what system they get released. They didn't sell last gen when they had 170 millions of potential across all systems. What makes you think they do better know with an economic crisis and outrageous development costs.

#31 Posted by Nintendo_Ownes7 (30917 posts) -

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="nchan"]Moving No More Heroes to 360 and PS3 would be a financial disaster for his company. Game developments cost too much on the other platforms. Look at Factor 5, Lair flopped in sales and score, the company went bankrupt. Silicon Knight, Too Human flopped in sales and score, we have not heard anything from them. We most likely not gonna see another game from Silicon Knight this gen. Both of these two developers were very successful last gen on the Gamecube. Oscar-Wilde
Hate to tell you but NMH hasn't sold very well on the Wii and I highly doubt it would sell worse on three other systems combined, PC/360/PS3. And Suda's style is not to make HUGE budget games. Grasshopper Manufacture is not a company that makes huge blockbusters so I doubt they are expecting to change that around on one try but what they are doing, which is smart, is appeal to their target audience. Their sarcastic, 16-24, gore seeking target audience that exist to a larger extent on the 360/PS3PC.

Let's be completely honest here, their games won't sell regardless to what system they get released. They didn't sell last gen when they had 170 millions of potential across all systems. what makes you think they do better know with an economic crisis and outrageous developmental costs.

Agreed to this day No More Heroes is Grasshopper Manufactures' and Suda 51's best selling game and it only sold 32k last time I looked.

I fixed the post of Javy03 because Suda is the person Grasshopper Manufacture is the Company.

#32 Posted by intro94 (2623 posts) -
it honestly sounds like to me he's planning on the 'Wii 2'dotWithShoes
to tell you the truth that sounds more like it.By the time NMH3 its decided to launch, who knows what will nintendo could offfer.Regardless, its a loong way before NMH2 is out, let alone NMH3 if it ever comes(which might be 2012).
#33 Posted by psychobrew (8884 posts) -
Add the fact that his games aren't selling that well, and I wouldn't blame them for having their next project be a PC, PS3, 360 one.dgsag
Where they still won't sell because his games are crap.
#34 Posted by metroidfood (11173 posts) -

Add the fact that his games aren't selling that well, and I wouldn't blame them for having their next project be a PC, PS3, 360 one.dgsag

NMH was one of Suda's highest critically and commercially recieved game. Of course that still isn't saying much... but I doubt putting a niche franchise on a more expensive group of platforms would be a goodbusiness move.

I had huge blatant jaggies and very low res textures, the art was good but the technical side of things was rather lacking. Yes it WAS mainly due to the system. BoloTheGreat

While I loved the artistic look of NMH, technically it was bad even for Wii.

Mario Galaxy, MP3, and SSBB all ran at a fluid 60 fps with graphics far better than NMH, which couldn't always keep a consistent framerate. Sure, it'll look somewhat better solely due to higher specs, but it won't magically become technically impressive from just switching platforms.


Where they still won't sell because his games are crap.psychobrew

Woah, ease up on the Haterade there bud. I'm betting that crap doesn't get an 83% on Gamerankings and AAA here on GS.

#35 Posted by shutdown_202 (5647 posts) -

HD consoles? PC? Wii? I really dont care what platform it goes on. As long as they keep releasing quality NMH games, Im fine.

#36 Posted by finesse-gamer (946 posts) -

suda craps out better games than most devs. can dream of making then?

#37 Posted by blahzor (2287 posts) -

I haven't read beyond the first couple of posts, but have we considered that this only means that NMH2 is the last NMH for this generation? Or that it may be heading to handhelds?

#38 Posted by AAllxxjjnn (19988 posts) -
[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.DeathScape666

Considering No More Heroes was designed to be a punishing,twisted game in one sense (from what I've gathered),his answer seems like exactly what I'd expect him to say.

So he's sacrificing fun gameplay to make an artistic statement of some sort? That's ridiculous.

They aren't even artistic, they're just silly ass statements that pretentious art school students eat up, like John Cage's 4'33" BS.
#39 Posted by Dycras (1226 posts) -

and this is why i'm glad to be a manticore :P. Still no more heroes is more of a wii type of game, it'll be wierd not having motion controls with it...

#40 Posted by Gamingcucumber (5608 posts) -
Suda 51 is one of the most creative and original developers alive today and I just hope he keeps delivering the games I know he can make. I also hope that the MARKET would show some appreciation for once. Tim Schafer and Suda 51 is in the same boat.
#41 Posted by psychobrew (8884 posts) -
Suda 51 is one of the most creative and original developers alive today and I just hope he keeps delivering the games I know he can make. I also hope that the MARKET would show some appreciation for once. Tim Schafer and Suda 51 is in the same boat.Gamingcucumber
How was NMH creative or original?
#42 Posted by DeadEndPanda (2358 posts) -

If No More Heroes comes out for another system,I am getting that system as soon as possible; yes,I'm that big of a Goichi Suda and No More Heroes fanboy.

VGobbsesser

this, NMH on ps3 would make me finally buy one, i still need 5 games atlast to have a reson to buy one, and NMH or any suda51 or platinum games would be perfect

#43 Posted by bc1391 (11904 posts) -

Grasshopper Manufacture isn't huge. The numbers they made on the Wii may not cover them for the development of a game on the HD twins. If he does move it, it will probably go to 360. Either way, I'm gonna buy it. :P

#44 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -
i would not buy any of their games outside of a nintendo console, i have both killer 7 and NMH
#45 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

If No More Heroes comes out for another system,I am getting that system as soon as possible; yes,I'm that big of a Goichi Suda and No More Heroes fanboy.

DeadEndPanda

this, NMH on ps3 would make me finally buy one, i still need 5 games atlast to have a reson to buy one, and NMH or any suda51 or platinum games would be perfect

sadly i am only up to two
#46 Posted by Iamsmee (470 posts) -

'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.DeathScape666

The mini-games are actually some of the best parts of the game.

#47 Posted by AgentA-Mi6 (16260 posts) -
Embrace Ps3 Exclusivity ! :P
#48 Posted by Tsug_Ze_Wind (9511 posts) -

it honestly sounds like to me he's planning on the 'Wii 2'dotWithShoes

Yeah...kind of weird that he'd say that at all, since after NMH2 he probably wouldn't have time to make another Wii game before next gen rolls around anyway. I certainly wasn't expecting a Wii NMH3.

But regardless, I am looking forward to Suda's new ****. :P

#49 Posted by AgentA-Mi6 (16260 posts) -

Grasshopper Manufacture isn't huge. The numbers they made on the Wii may not cover them for the development of a game on the HD twins. If he does move it, it will probably go to 360. Either way, I'm gonna buy it. :P

bc1391
Why the 360? Why not cross platform, the 360 isnt too big in Japan, It would't make more sense to make his next game cross platform or Ps3 Exclusive
#50 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="DeathScape666"]'Regarding mini games: "The reason that I put these elements in is that it's a challenge to make a game," says Suda, "and so I want too make the player feel challenges to even play the game... Travis has to work..." it's a principle that, according to Suda, permeates his games.' Uhh... No, that's stupid. Don't put tedious tasks in the game to artificially lengthen it, especially when they aren't fun to begin with. Spend your time working on something else, or at least coming up with a better reason. No More Heroes is my favorite third party Wii game that isn't called "Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition," but that remark was just stupid, in my opinion.Iamsmee

The mini-games are actually some of the best parts of the game.

i would not go that far but if you take the "minigames" portion as satire on games like GTA then they are loads of fun and laughs.... when picking up scorpions i could not help but laugh at the pizza delivers in vice city