Sony announces "Archival" BR discs, 1TB, fortelling 4K?

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#1 Posted by Spartan070 (16361 posts) -

GS Link: "Sony announces next-gen Blu-ray disc, can store up to 1TB of data"

Will this have any bearing on the now current gen of gaming?

Does this impact the inevitable move towards the Digital Download revolution?

Discuss.

#2 Edited by FoxbatAlpha (7430 posts) -

I cant see this as shaking up the gaming industry. Space has never really limited a game as far as quality.

#3 Posted by hoyalawya (342 posts) -

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

#4 Posted by Spartan070 (16361 posts) -

Also, seeing as the Xbox One has a Blu-Ray player, we can assume that both consoles would have access, as well as, I'm assuming, the next Ninty console.

#5 Posted by Spartan070 (16361 posts) -

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Good question, I honestly don't know. Techies of SW! You're up...

#6 Posted by bobbetybob (19292 posts) -

They need to make drives faster so we don't need to install every single game more than they need bigger disks.

And no it won't have any bearing on current gen because you would probably need special hardware to read them, they'll probably cost a lot and even if they could read them, why would any current gen game need 300GB+ of data and where would you install it?

#7 Edited by edwardecl (2239 posts) -
@FoxbatAlpha said:

I cant see this as shaking up the gaming industry. Space has never really limited a game as far as quality.

A game will never fill up a DVD right?

#8 Posted by MonsieurX (30489 posts) -

4k on consoles won't happen this gen.

#10 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Depends on what type of HDMI the console supports (Blu-Ray is just fine). HDMI 1.4 and above can handle 4K (2.0 for 60FPS).

#11 Posted by locus-solus (546 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

4k on consoles won't happen this gen.

Sony & MS both said their next gen systems won't support 4k games. i do believe both systems are supposed to be compatible of playing 4k movies though.

#12 Posted by clr84651 (5487 posts) -

More capacity is there for a reason. Probably for PS5.

#13 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@menes777 said:

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Depends on what type of HDMI the console supports (Blu-Ray is just fine). HDMI 1.4 and above can handle 4K (2.0 for 60FPS).

Just because HDMI can support 4k, doesn't mean the hardware can.

The data gathered from the blu-ray will need to be increased, and right now, I'm not sure if there are physical limitation in the bandwidth or physically gathering data from the drive.

#14 Edited by Wasdie (50003 posts) -

We'll see a big jump in game size really soon. Downloading 20-30 gigs on the PC is pretty common now. Games are getting larger and larger so more file space will be necessary for video games.

That said it sounds like Sony is trying to gear up for 4k video. Blu-rays can't hold much 4k video as they stand now. I'm not even sure if Blu-rays have enough bandwidth for 4k video streaming. I know the PS4 can do 4k video streaming but actually getting a 4k video is kind of a chore.

We won't see 4k real time rendering on the consoles anytime soon either. Even on the PC that's reserved for the ultra enthusiasts who pay some serious money for their hardware and gaming setups. It's just not feasable.

I doubt we'll ever see 4k the standard on consoles either. It seems to me that 1080p is going to be the standard for home entertainment for the foreseeable future. The benefits of 4k are only fully realized on very large displays or if the viewer is very close to the display. It's ripe for PCs, phones, tablets, and especially VR but for your typical home theater setup you won't notice any real benifit of 4k. I would rather have a really nice quality 1080p TV with a wide range of colors, nice deep blacks, and a good brightness rather than sacrificing those things for 4k.

#15 Posted by DaBrainz (7673 posts) -

lol discs

#16 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4521 posts) -

Considering it's called Archival Discs no. And it wouldn't be needed right now. Especially since games have to be installed to the HDD to get performance out of it. Could you imagine, a two terabyte HDD with two or so games on it.

#17 Posted by kbanna (665 posts) -

@locus-solus said:

@MonsieurX said:

4k on consoles won't happen this gen.

Sony & MS both said their next gen systems won't support 4k games. i do believe both systems are supposed to be compatible of playing 4k movies though.

Actually MS said that the xbox could support 4k games this gen. (obviously I don't believe that ether)

#18 Posted by blackace (20890 posts) -

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

For movies it will be, but since all game consoles now load the whole game onto the HDD, it's really irrelevant for games.

#19 Posted by Kjranu (1031 posts) -

Uh, find me a drive that can read a 1TB disc at reasonable speed otherwise it is only useful for storage.

#20 Edited by lhughey (4243 posts) -

@DaBrainz said:

lol discs

That's why its being touted as an "archival" medium. They know that this will never be popular as a medium for content delivery (movies/games). codec 265 will be popular by the time this comes out and content will be digital. They also use the term "professional" disks. That means "expensive" in my lil translation book. :)

#21 Posted by Cyberdot (3538 posts) -

Nice.

I'm not interested unless it has fast read and write speeds though.

#23 Posted by Tessellation (8803 posts) -

4k for what? movies and video? because i am sure that POS will never be able to display games at 4K lol.

#24 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (14473 posts) -

1tb disks would put a serious damper on Piracy, lmfao.

Seems a bit ridiculous.

#25 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (7499 posts) -

Right now, such space on a disc isn't necessary. The 25/50GB Blu Ray discs are holding current assets well enough. In the future, these MIGHT be necessary. 1TB seems excessive, though.

#26 Edited by killatwill15 (845 posts) -

@Spartan070 said:

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Good question, I honestly don't know. Techies of SW! You're up...

a movie clocked at 3 hours would be 480 gb.

maybe a 1 tb worth of games this gen,

like how john carmack was tossing around that rage was 1tb uncompressed

#27 Edited by Prawephet (310 posts) -

@kbanna: And the Lems believed Microsoft. Funny, the xb1 can barely push 720p at a respectable fidelity and people expect that it will be able to push 6x(?) the pixels? Lol.

At the very least Sony came out and flat out said the ps4 simply cannot do it. Hell, ps4 is having issues with 1080p at reasonable fidelity.

#28 Posted by hoyalawya (342 posts) -

@prawephet said:

@kbanna: And the Lems believed Microsoft. Funny, the xb1 can barely push 720p at a respectable fidelity and people expect that it will be able to push 6x(?) the pixels? Lol.

At the very least Sony came out and flat out said the ps4 simply cannot do it. Hell, ps4 is having issues with 1080p at reasonable fidelity.

Yes, for movies and not games. The Xbox One comes with HDMI 1.4 cable.

#29 Posted by lundy86_4 (43571 posts) -

This seems like it'll be for long-term storage of data. I suspect something similar will be utilized for movies/games eventually, though I wonder if we'll be largely digital by next-gen.

#30 Posted by Spartan070 (16361 posts) -

Interesting, it's sounding like Professional tech/potential PS5 tech. Cool nontheless

#31 Edited by Heil68 (45267 posts) -

SONY paving the way with ground breaking technology and innovation. Business as usual.

#32 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4895 posts) -
@way2funny said:

@menes777 said:

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Depends on what type of HDMI the console supports (Blu-Ray is just fine). HDMI 1.4 and above can handle 4K (2.0 for 60FPS).

Just because HDMI can support 4k, doesn't mean the hardware can.

The data gathered from the blu-ray will need to be increased, and right now, I'm not sure if there are physical limitation in the bandwidth or physically gathering data from the drive.

agree with way2funny.

the hdmi's support is independent of the blu ray read speed, the capabilities of a player, etc. It will take a few ingredients working in synergy to deliver 4K tv from a disc to the TV.

a brief discussion on the point

according to the blu ray group the maximum video resolution is 1920x1080. http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison and from the same link, the max bandwidth is 40 MBps.

Just FYI a Blu Ray drive at single speed achieves 36mBit/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Drive_speeds

Now, this doesn't mean you couldn't burn a 4K video as an MKV file to a blu ray disc and watch it, but the format known by the proper name 'blu ray video' will not support 4K through a blu ray player. I guess they will need a new hardware sku.

But, short story, if someone wanted to crudely suggest you'd need 4x the bandwidth for 4K vs 1080P, then one might assume you'd need a 40 x 4 = 160MBps read speed blu ray drive in order to get a lag-free 4K experience.

so, i sum up with paraphrased yes/no versions of @hoyalawya's greater question

does blu ray support 4k? No. 'Blu Ray' as a video format maxes out at 1080P60.

could a blu ray disc store a 4k video, and could this video be played? I think you would need a computer for that, a standalone player won't do it because of the blu ray video format limitations. but you burn a Blu Ray with simple file system (EG Not Blu Ray Video), and the file of interest could be a 4K video, which you could play successfully on a computer with .... probably a Blu Ray drive of 6x or greater.

my discussion on the point, i don't claim to know all this however it's the best guess i can make based on experience, and the information available to me.

#33 Posted by Spartan070 (16361 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

SONY paving the way with ground breaking technology and innovation. Business as usual.

Sony has always been the leader in disc technology

#34 Edited by lamprey263 (24243 posts) -

doubt this will change gaming much, with the shift to digital nobody wants to download games demanding in size on their systems

#35 Edited by Effec_Tor (321 posts) -

100 gig download will be the norm in 3 to 5 years?

Thats insane.

#36 Posted by santoron (7775 posts) -

Nothing to do with 4k gaming or video. This is for large enterprises with dozens of terabytes of data to backup. The drives will be expensive, but with a large enough volume you'd save money on discs vs using cloud or hdd solutions.

#37 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (28422 posts) -

@Spartan070 said:

@Heil68 said:

SONY paving the way with ground breaking technology and innovation. Business as usual.

Sony has always been the leader in disc technology

no other companies such as phillips were the leader than sony said hey lets collaborate.

#38 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13783 posts) -

One Terabyte ?

Imagine all the cutscenes you can fit on the thing !

#39 Edited by slimdogmilionar (562 posts) -

More space=more textures, I don't mind the game installs because games will always run better from the HDD imo, but it would be cool if the bigger blu-rays could be used to hold extra data that could be streamed along with the data on the hdd to help the game.

#40 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

@prawephet said:

@kbanna: And the Lems believed Microsoft. Funny, the xb1 can barely push 720p at a respectable fidelity and people expect that it will be able to push 6x(?) the pixels? Lol.

4K is closer to 10x the pixels of 720p. 720p multiplied by 6 is still about 3 million pixels short of 4K.

Anyway, yeah, this will have absolutely no bearing on gaming this gen. Probably not ever. Throughout this gen, I'm sure we'll start to see some games on PS4/XB1 that break the limit of a single regular BD, and require two or more discs (40gb+ installs are starting to show up for PC games), but they certainly won't get anywhere near big enough to warrant a 1TB disc within those consoles' lifetimes, and by the time the next consoles are coming out (assuming there is another console gen), they'll likely make the switch to full digital distribution.

These discs are very likely being made for archival (hence the name) storage, and eventually for 4K movies, once the necessary hardware is cheap enough to catch on in the consumer market.

#41 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

@effec_tor said:

100 gig download will be the norm in 3 to 5 years?

Thats insane.

And ten years ago, people thought games would never break the 9gb limit of a DVD. And ten years before that, 100 megabytes was considered huge. It's just progress. I still have an old box for a HDD from the early 90s, sitting on a shelf in my parent's house. The box boasts of the "massive storage space" that is 64 megabytes.

#42 Posted by nyzma23 (929 posts) -

future storage is flash not disc lol

#43 Posted by monson21502 (8071 posts) -

no lol. for telling of more anti pirate code and to get their lovers to buy their tvs

#44 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur said:
@way2funny said:

@menes777 said:

@hoyalawya said:

Does Blu-Ray have enough bandwidth for 4K videos? Honest question.

Depends on what type of HDMI the console supports (Blu-Ray is just fine). HDMI 1.4 and above can handle 4K (2.0 for 60FPS).

Just because HDMI can support 4k, doesn't mean the hardware can.

The data gathered from the blu-ray will need to be increased, and right now, I'm not sure if there are physical limitation in the bandwidth or physically gathering data from the drive.

agree with way2funny.

the hdmi's support is independent of the blu ray read speed, the capabilities of a player, etc. It will take a few ingredients working in synergy to deliver 4K tv from a disc to the TV.

a brief discussion on the point

according to the blu ray group the maximum video resolution is 1920x1080. http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison and from the same link, the max bandwidth is 40 MBps.

Just FYI a Blu Ray drive at single speed achieves 36mBit/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Drive_speeds

Now, this doesn't mean you couldn't burn a 4K video as an MKV file to a blu ray disc and watch it, but the format known by the proper name 'blu ray video' will not support 4K through a blu ray player. I guess they will need a new hardware sku.

But, short story, if someone wanted to crudely suggest you'd need 4x the bandwidth for 4K vs 1080P, then one might assume you'd need a 40 x 4 = 160MBps read speed blu ray drive in order to get a lag-free 4K experience.

so, i sum up with paraphrased yes/no versions of @hoyalawya's greater question

does blu ray support 4k? No. 'Blu Ray' as a video format maxes out at 1080P60.

could a blu ray disc store a 4k video, and could this video be played? I think you would need a computer for that, a standalone player won't do it because of the blu ray video format limitations. but you burn a Blu Ray with simple file system (EG Not Blu Ray Video), and the file of interest could be a 4K video, which you could play successfully on a computer with .... probably a Blu Ray drive of 6x or greater.

my discussion on the point, i don't claim to know all this however it's the best guess i can make based on experience, and the information available to me.

That is correct, however, unless I am missing something Blu-Ray has gone beyond single speed right? Looking at the PS4 it looks like it is up to 6x speed right now. http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/PlayStation_4_Hardware_Specs

Do I think that the PS4 will be able to do 4K. Maybe on movie playback but definitely not on games for other reasons than just bandwidth. My backing behind it doing movies? My Nexus 10 can almost do 4K playback and it surely has a weaker CPU & GPU than the PS4.

#45 Edited by groowagon (2823 posts) -

who cares about 4k? approximately 1 gamespotter can afford a 4k TV within 10 year scope.*

*) "lol gaming PCs are stupid expensive. i bought a PS4 and 4K TV instead for $5000." yeah... not gonna happen

#46 Posted by Prawephet (310 posts) -

@hoyalawya: Actually. Microsoft said repeatedly that the Xbox One would play games at 4k resolution. Microsoft even shared video of them "playing Forza at 4K" on lgs 84" 4k tv.

#47 Edited by CrownKingArthur (4895 posts) -

@menes777 said:

@CrownKingArthur said:

agree with way2funny.

the hdmi's support is independent of the blu ray read speed, the capabilities of a player, etc. It will take a few ingredients working in synergy to deliver 4K tv from a disc to the TV.

a brief discussion on the point

according to the blu ray group the maximum video resolution is 1920x1080. http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison and from the same link, the max bandwidth is 40 MBps.

Just FYI a Blu Ray drive at single speed achieves 36mBit/s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Drive_speeds

Now, this doesn't mean you couldn't burn a 4K video as an MKV file to a blu ray disc and watch it, but the format known by the proper name 'blu ray video' will not support 4K through a blu ray player. I guess they will need a new hardware sku.

But, short story, if someone wanted to crudely suggest you'd need 4x the bandwidth for 4K vs 1080P, then one might assume you'd need a 40 x 4 = 160MBps read speed blu ray drive in order to get a lag-free 4K experience.

so, i sum up with paraphrased yes/no versions of @hoyalawya's greater question

does blu ray support 4k? No. 'Blu Ray' as a video format maxes out at 1080P60.

could a blu ray disc store a 4k video, and could this video be played? I think you would need a computer for that, a standalone player won't do it because of the blu ray video format limitations. but you burn a Blu Ray with simple file system (EG Not Blu Ray Video), and the file of interest could be a 4K video, which you could play successfully on a computer with .... probably a Blu Ray drive of 6x or greater.

my discussion on the point, i don't claim to know all this however it's the best guess i can make based on experience, and the information available to me.

That is correct, however, unless I am missing something Blu-Ray has gone beyond single speed right? Looking at the PS4 it looks like it is up to 6x speed right now. http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/PlayStation_4_Hardware_Specs

Do I think that the PS4 will be able to do 4K. Maybe on movie playback but definitely not on games for other reasons than just bandwidth. My backing behind it doing movies? My Nexus 10 can almost do 4K playback and it surely has a weaker CPU & GPU than the PS4.

cheers man.

yes - they go beyond single speed. no worries we probably just misunderstood each other a bit there, my wikipedia link shows BR drive speeds up to 16x so I definitely acknowledge they go faster than 1x.

that's a good rationale for ps4 & 4k. maybe some 4k content will be downloadable on the ps network down the track. in fact if its downloadable then the issue of the blu ray read speed becomes moot (assuming the hard disc is faster, which is a fair assumption imo).

#48 Edited by CrashNBurn281 (424 posts) -

We will not see anything significant with 4k until next gen. MS is full of shit if they stated the XBO could output 4k. They are just starting to get where they are getting close to 1080p.

Will have to watch PC tech to see if it will be feasible for the consoles to output that rez next cycle.

#49 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

You do realize that "Archival" means to archive, right? This is for archiving information not primarily for movies. We will see 4k blu-ray but you can pretty easily do 4k on a 100gb or 128gb blu-ray which there is already a standard for or even on a 25gb or 50gb blu-ray (though there will be more compression). Of course they will release 4k blu-rays because they will make more money if the can convince people to rebuy movies and buy a new player.

#50 Edited by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

@groowagon said:

who cares about 4k? approximately 1 gamespotter can afford a 4k TV within 10 year scope.*

*) "lol gaming PCs are stupid expensive. i bought a PS4 and 4K TV instead for $5000." yeah... not gonna happen

Wow, I must be approximately the richest gamespotter.

http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-Digital-SE39UY04-39-Inch-Ultra/dp/B00DOPGO2G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394567371&sr=8-1&keywords=4k+tv

* I don't own one, but I can afford to buy a $400 dollar TV