So... PS4 dev times will be closer to that of the PS1?

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#1 Posted by IcyFlamez96 (1355 posts) -

PS4

 

Time to triangle was a term used by Cerny to mean the time required to code graphical systems at a level the hardware's capable of, essentially analogous to how long it takes to create the base for games that match the hardware's graphical power....

 

Pretty interesting. Leagues better than the 6-12 months that the PS3 apparently takes O_0

#2 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38211 posts) -

Depends on the type of game and who's making it. 

It should be easier than PS3 though

#3 Posted by Heil68 (43285 posts) -
That great, we shouldn't see any multiplat delays like we did last gen OR many X180/PC excluvies(lol).
#4 Posted by call_of_duty_10 (4954 posts) -

SDC:cool:

#5 Posted by stereointegrity (10700 posts) -
everything should be easier then ps3......ps3 dev cycle was a joke
#6 Posted by Riverwolf007 (23437 posts) -

senseless bullshyt layman's terms for things make me want to puke.

people pick shyt like this up and act like it means something.

if you think for one second big triple a franchise titles involving tens of millions of dollars are going to take less than 3 to 5 years for any reason i don't know what to tell you.

#7 Posted by call_of_duty_10 (4954 posts) -

Poor lems.

Sony has Mark Godny in their team,and he has designed the best console in the world.

M$ has Don Matrix,and his greatest accomplishment is telling lems to buy a 360:(

#8 Posted by Far_RockNYC (1112 posts) -

tumblr_lqdmkh6r0O1qzeohd.gif.

#9 Posted by SaltyMeatballs (25150 posts) -
Yes, but for multiplatform games Xbone will still hold back development time and release dates.
#10 Posted by senses_fail_06 (6735 posts) -

Thank you Cerny

Depends on the type of game and who's making it. 

It should be easier than PS3 though

seanmcloughlin

Based on what? Or are you simply stating the most obvious of obvious? 

#11 Posted by Guy_Brohski (282 posts) -

Why is this thread so dumb? Quality games will take upwards of a year, you can't make a decent game in 1-2 months.

#12 Posted by SaltyMeatballs (25150 posts) -

Why is this thread so dumb? Quality games will take upwards of a year, you can't make a decent game in 1-2 months.

Guy_Brohski

Look who is dumb!

#13 Posted by Ballroompirate (22306 posts) -

I'd say 1-2 months is a little un realistic for those big titled games. I can see it happening with indie games but not big budget games.

#14 Posted by ManatuBeard (935 posts) -

Yes, but for multiplatform games Xbone will still hold back development time and release dates.SaltyMeatballs

 

Nah, 3rd parties dont want to waste time (and MONEY) optimizing. They will just use whatever APIs MS provides to manage the memory banks for them and scale down the game until the performance is ok.

MS better provide some f*cking good APIs, or multiplat games on the Xbone will be sheit!

#15 Posted by IcyFlamez96 (1355 posts) -

Why is this thread so dumb? Quality games will take upwards of a year, you can't make a decent game in 1-2 months.

Guy_Brohski
Uh... I think you're the slow one here :p
#16 Posted by senses_fail_06 (6735 posts) -
[QUOTE="Guy_Brohski"]

Why is this thread so dumb? Quality games will take upwards of a year, you can't make a decent game in 1-2 months.

IcyFlamez96
Uh... I think you're the slow one here :p

:lol: I love when users try to call others out and make themselves look like a straight dumbass. Just another day in SW.
#17 Posted by OctaBech (276 posts) -

senseless bullshyt layman's terms for things make me want to puke.

people pick shyt like this up and act like it means something.

Riverwolf007

MS are using the "Cerny Method" for developing their games and they have actively been headhunting ICE/Naughty Dog employees, even got an exclusive from Insomniac. No doubt, MS know the value of Mark's work, but then again who wouldn't? He's held in the highest regard among his peers which is shown by the awards he has received.

What you should note is how Mark redid the way the industry used to develop games because now he's doing the same to how consoles are being developed, unless you would claim the xBox One, Wii U and PS4 differences are negligible in terms of price, size, toolset (which was developed concurrently with the hardware) and performance? Reducing the time to write code will effectively reduce the time to explore and test new concepts, actively minimizing the financial risks the publishers need to take. B-tier studios will also have an easier time entering the game, I personally hope this will bring back genres dwelling on PCs like space shooters (Wing Commander/Privateer :D), PCs are nice for niche genres but it's on consoles the money has to be found.

#18 Posted by OctaBech (276 posts) -

I'd say 1-2 months is a little un realistic for those big titled games. I can see it happening with indie games but not big budget games.

Ballroompirate
That's not what Mark is talking about, it's about the time it takes to have a concept up and running, like the "physics" simulation with Knack. It is in no way the entire engine or its tool chain.
#19 Posted by metal_zombie (2287 posts) -

makes me think they're going to make a lot of shovelware

#20 Posted by Ninja-Hippo (23426 posts) -

How have you managed to interpret that information as 'PS4 dev times will be closer to that of the PS1?'

Seriously. Explain how your brain functions. 

#21 Posted by IcyFlamez96 (1355 posts) -

How have you managed to interpret that information as 'PS4 dev times will be closer to that of the PS1?'

Seriously. Explain how your brain functions. 

Ninja-Hippo
Development times will probably be shorter now, which mean it will be closer to that of the PS1. Is this really that complicated for you to understand? It's a pretty simple concept.
#22 Posted by Ninja-Hippo (23426 posts) -
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

How have you managed to interpret that information as 'PS4 dev times will be closer to that of the PS1?'

Seriously. Explain how your brain functions. 

IcyFlamez96
Development times will probably be shorter now, which mean it will be closer to that of the PS1. Is this really that complicated for you to understand? It's a pretty simple concept.

You have completely misinterpreted that presentation entirely. It was about how long it takes to get your engine up and running on a console, not how long it takes to develop the entire game. PS1 games took months to develop, not years. If you seriously think in the age of graphics as good as they are today, massive budgets and online multiplayer that developers are going to go back to banging out a game in 9 months there are no words I can produce to correct you. In short, you're way off. You've taken a simple article and ran to a ridiculous extreme with it.
#23 Posted by IcyFlamez96 (1355 posts) -

[QUOTE="IcyFlamez96"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

How have you managed to interpret that information as 'PS4 dev times will be closer to that of the PS1?'

Seriously. Explain how your brain functions. 

Ninja-Hippo

Development times will probably be shorter now, which mean it will be closer to that of the PS1. Is this really that complicated for you to understand? It's a pretty simple concept.

You have completely misinterpreted that presentation entirely. It was about how long it takes to get your engine up and running on a console, not how long it takes to develop the entire game. PS1 games took months to develop, not years. If you seriously think in the age of graphics as good as they are today, massive budgets and online multiplayer that developers are going to go back to banging out a game in 9 months there are no words I can produce to correct you. In short, you're way off. You've taken a simple article and ran to a ridiculous extreme with it.

 

I know that. I even explained it in my OP :|

Either way, like I said, with this it means that development times are likely to shorten which ultimately means that it will be closer to the development times on the PS1. I know that stamement is a bit of a stretch, but it's still true. I'm just trying to spark some discussion. 

#24 Posted by ActicEdge (24333 posts) -

Naw, development times are still going to be 2-3 years long. There is no way around that at all.

#25 Posted by Ninja-Hippo (23426 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="IcyFlamez96"] Development times will probably be shorter now, which mean it will be closer to that of the PS1. Is this really that complicated for you to understand? It's a pretty simple concept. IcyFlamez96

You have completely misinterpreted that presentation entirely. It was about how long it takes to get your engine up and running on a console, not how long it takes to develop the entire game. PS1 games took months to develop, not years. If you seriously think in the age of graphics as good as they are today, massive budgets and online multiplayer that developers are going to go back to banging out a game in 9 months there are no words I can produce to correct you. In short, you're way off. You've taken a simple article and ran to a ridiculous extreme with it.

 

I know that. I even explained it in my OP :|

Either way, like I said, with this it means that development times are likely to shorten which ultimately means that it will be closer to the development times on the PS1. I know that stamement is a bit of a stretch, but it's still true. I'm just trying to spark some discussion. 

No it's not a stretch, it's completely absurd. Games will take just as long if not even longer to develop this generation than ever before. Games are more advanced and more intricate and on a larger scale than they have ever been. You are entirely wrong. His presentation was about how it's now less of a pain to get your engine up and running on a new machine, not about development times. Development times and budgets have gone nowhere but up, and that trend will continue. You've misinterpreted this story as being about development times. It is not.
#26 Posted by Sagemode87 (791 posts) -

Yes, but for multiplatform games Xbone will still hold back development time and release dates.SaltyMeatballs

If PS4 dominates enough, MS will have no choice but to be put on a back burner. They can't control the industry.

#27 Posted by IcyFlamez96 (1355 posts) -
[QUOTE="IcyFlamez96"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] You have completely misinterpreted that presentation entirely. It was about how long it takes to get your engine up and running on a console, not how long it takes to develop the entire game. PS1 games took months to develop, not years. If you seriously think in the age of graphics as good as they are today, massive budgets and online multiplayer that developers are going to go back to banging out a game in 9 months there are no words I can produce to correct you. In short, you're way off. You've taken a simple article and ran to a ridiculous extreme with it.Ninja-Hippo

 

I know that. I even explained it in my OP :|

Either way, like I said, with this it means that development times are likely to shorten which ultimately means that it will be closer to the development times on the PS1. I know that stamement is a bit of a stretch, but it's still true. I'm just trying to spark some discussion. 

No it's not a stretch, it's completely absurd. Games will take just as long if not even longer to develop this generation than ever before. Games are more advanced and more intricate and on a larger scale than they have ever been. You are entirely wrong. His presentation was about how it's now less of a pain to get your engine up and running on a new machine, not about development times. Development times and budgets have gone nowhere but up, and that trend will continue. You've misinterpreted this story as being about development times. It is not.

When you say development times, are you also including the time it takes to get the engine running? That's what i'm saying. Well I disagree. I still think that overall dev times will be shorter if even by just a little.
#28 Posted by PresidentRickor (47 posts) -

Naw, development times are still going to be 2-3 years long. There is no way around that at all.

ActicEdge
There is, but people don't focus on doing more with less, they think spending more money on less is better. Is why I am having a hard time fixing the country, and getting members of the U.S. to fix their countries etc.
#29 Posted by lostrib (33560 posts) -

Sweet! more yearly rehashes!

#30 Posted by Ghost120x (3709 posts) -
That's great news, but won't the ps4's easy architecture make it easy to hack. Remember Bleem!
#31 Posted by Mrmedia01 (1917 posts) -

Yep should be much easier. Man coding on PS3 for the cell strait sucked. Feel sorry for the devs that had to deal with the cell for so long. PS4 should be a breeze for everyone.

#32 Posted by PinkiePirate (2086 posts) -

Notice how fast Guerilla Games got an engine running for Killzone Shadowfall.

 

Compare that to how long it took to develop Killzone 2 on the PS3. We saw pre-alpha, alpha, and beta code of the engine over the span of several months before we saw the final product. On PS4, we got the complete engine running on the hardware in a fraction of the time.

#33 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

I think what they ment with "similar to PS1 development" is that there won't be any "hidden powers" or "bottlenecks" to deal with this time and devs will be able to tap directly into the system's powers from the get-go and also that it uses PC-like architecture, which is the most common and dev-friendly architecture out there.

PS2 and PS3 were complicated to develop for due to their unusual CPU and memory setups whereas the PS4 will be the opposite of this.

Dev times themselves are getting longer because games are getting more complicated to develop.

#34 Posted by HAZE-Unit (10464 posts) -

Yes it will shorten dev time overall at least by 4 to 5 months for small games and 9-10 months for bigger games I suppose.

We won't see another KZ2, GTA4, GT5, MGS4 or FFXIII scenarios again where they released their games after reveal by at least 3 years or in some extreme case scenarios like the versus XIII.

Look at games like KZ4, it's a freaking launch title and PC ports like Warframe, Outlast and Daylight which are probably will be released @launch or launch window. Porting and developing became so fast and easy for the PS4 unlike the slow and hard to develop for PS3.

Its so fvcking amazing seeing all of these great looking PC games ( which I've hoped to see on consoles for a long time specially outlast and daylight ) coming to the PS4.

Hopefully Routine and that horror game where you play as a toddler also comes to PS4 since I don't have a gaming PC.

#35 Posted by LordOfPoms (1086 posts) -

Depends on the type of game and who's making it. 

It should be easier than PS3 though

seanmcloughlin
PS3 was a complete nightmare. I'm glad they were humble enough to basically admit it was shit to program for and go to a PC-like architecture for the sake of everyone.
#36 Posted by super600 (30173 posts) -

This is just for creating a game that will work with the hardware. It may take a lot longer to make a game that can actually ship.

#37 Posted by campzor (34932 posts) -
I saw this in Cerny's event thing the other day. Its amazing to think dev time will be much faster.
#38 Posted by themyth01 (13924 posts) -
Taking machine complexity out of the picture, games nowadays are so much more complex to make than before that even with the same hardware complexity it would still take a lot longer than before.
#39 Posted by Infinite_Access (2479 posts) -
Way to many people ITT that have NO CLUE was the OP said..
#40 Posted by lamprey263 (22884 posts) -
whether you game on the PS4 or not, everyone will probably experience a burst in creativity and refinement in games as the PS3's special needs will no longer be a burden on developers, instead of wasting too much time, money, and manpower just making sure one port works like the others, they instead can devote those resources toward making awesome games
#41 Posted by lostrib (33560 posts) -

Way to many people ITT that have NO CLUE was the OP said.. Infinite_Access

they can build triangles faster?

#42 Posted by Indicud (739 posts) -
Way to many people ITT that have NO CLUE was the OP said.. Infinite_Access
#43 Posted by bbkkristian (14928 posts) -
You're talking about how long it takes to make the game, right?
#44 Posted by VendettaRed07 (13998 posts) -

Cerny is a genius.

No, ps4 games will not take 8 months to make like a lot of psone games. 2 years still the standard.

But what this does, is make all the headaches, delays, and ridiculous amount of time and money that was wasted last gen go away. The amount of delays on so many high profile games last gen was crazy. FFXIII, FFVersus, Killzone 2, White Knight Chronicles, Last Guardian, so many others went through development hell last gen. Not to mention all the focus from a japanese perspective was switched to the psp because it was easier to develop for and there was a larger install base at the time. I mean Persona 4 came out in 2008 on the friggin ps2. Kingdom Hearts 3 completely skipped last gen.. All because of the difficulty and expense wasn't worth devs time.

Thats not a factor anymore. The odds of games being in development hell will be drastically lower, and the difference between the difficulty of development between the console and the handheld in this case vita, is much smaller.

#45 Posted by Syn_Valence (1348 posts) -

Im just glad im getting Killzone at launch not sometime down the road........and at least it looks like a different experience then Killzone 3.  Oh and the first Persona game is gonna be epic.  Oh and please oh please SUIKODEN GODDAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!