Sega Developer: PS3 Sixaxis tilt is rubbish

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klabut

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#1 klabut
Member since 2006 • 3264 Posts
It seems that not only gamers but one of Sega's top development men thinks the motion sensing in Sixaxis is rubbish and is no competitor with the Wii

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=157708&site=psm
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spidey008

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#2 spidey008
Member since 2002 • 2309 Posts
I think most people would agree with that.
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Adrian_Cloud

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#3 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts
Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.
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Magical_Zebra

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#4 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts
It seems that not only gamers but one of Sega's top development men thinks the motion sensing in Sixaxis is rubbish and is no competitor with the Wii

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=157708&site=psm
klabut
They tried to imitate what nintendo did and it backfired in their damn face. So not only does the controller not have rumble, the motion sensing is "lack thereof". :shock:
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Magical_Zebra

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#5 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts
Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.Adrian_Cloud
Damage control at its best... :roll:
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Adrian_Cloud

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#6 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts
[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.Magical_Zebra
Damage control at its best... :roll:

You must be really slow, and not understand the simple fact that. Your not paying 200$ more for tilt, your paying that for Blu-ray. I'd never do damage control on a topic, that is just dev opinion.
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EtherTwilight

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#7 EtherTwilight
Member since 2005 • 1142 Posts
I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.
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Javy03

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#8 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.Magical_Zebra
Damage control at its best... :roll:

no its true, Devs have praised it and some devs think its worthless. But at least devs have the option to focus or not to focus on motion sensing. Dont MS fans like options.
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Javy03

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#9 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts
[QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.
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InfamousC

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#10 InfamousC
Member since 2006 • 2389 Posts

It seems that not only gamers but one of Sega's top development men thinks the motion sensing in Sixaxis is rubbish and is no competitor with the Wii

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=157708&site=psm
klabut

I have to say doesn't make any sense for a developer who is developing a game on PS3(using the motion sensing) to make a statement like this.

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alex1889

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#11 alex1889
Member since 2006 • 1633 Posts

and sega know all do they?

i much prefer sixaxis to vibration, my psn remote vibration broke and i never missed it.

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Raz-1

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#12 Raz-1
Member since 2006 • 1135 Posts

:lol: thats funny coming from the company that got knocked out by Sony :lol:

but yeah, some will say its good, some say its bogus.

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GsSanAndreas

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#13 GsSanAndreas
Member since 2004 • 3075 Posts
Oh yeh and Sega is doing so great,:roll:  ther just mad cauz Sony owned them
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jvonrader

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#14 jvonrader
Member since 2006 • 2183 Posts
If you cows hate Sega so much, we lemmings would be happy to accept VF5 as an exclusive...
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fatzombiepigeon

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#15 fatzombiepigeon
Member since 2005 • 8199 Posts
Who cares what Sega thinks anymore besides a few angry Shenmue fans?
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GsSanAndreas

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#16 GsSanAndreas
Member since 2004 • 3075 Posts
If you cows hate Sega so much, we lemmings would be happy to accept VF5 as an exclusive...jvonrader


Too bad its not a 360 exclusive, its ps3 timed exclusive
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fatzombiepigeon

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#17 fatzombiepigeon
Member since 2005 • 8199 Posts
[QUOTE="jvonrader"]If you cows hate Sega so much, we lemmings would be happy to accept VF5 as an exclusive...GsSanAndreas


Too bad its not a 360 exclusive, its ps3 timed exclusive


That's not even what he said. Did you even read his message?
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#18 Raz-1
Member since 2006 • 1135 Posts

If you cows hate Sega so much, we lemmings would be happy to accept VF5 as an exclusive...jvonrader

VF5 and Virtua Tennis(only 2 that come to my mind at the mo) is the only decent Sega games IMO.

Apart from those 2, Sega is practically a millionaire dustbin

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#19 jvonrader
Member since 2006 • 2183 Posts
[QUOTE="jvonrader"]If you cows hate Sega so much, we lemmings would be happy to accept VF5 as an exclusive...GsSanAndreas


Too bad its not a 360 exclusive, its ps3 timed exclusive

Yeah, let me think about that. I could spend $600 to get a PS3 and play the game a measely 4 months before I could otherwise, or I could just buy the Xbox 360 version in a little while and enjoy it with Achievements and rumble. I'll take Option Two. My point, though wasn't jealousy. It was this attack-the-developer nonsense every time a developer comes out and states the obvious - the PS3's tilt is a joke.
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Mystikef

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#20 Mystikef
Member since 2003 • 5125 Posts

[QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"][QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.Adrian_Cloud
Damage control at its best... :roll:

You must be really slow, and not understand the simple fact that. Your not paying 200$ more for tilt, your paying that for Blu-ray. I'd never do damage control on a topic, that is just dev opinion.

The tilt came at the cost of rumble...  at least that is what Sony said to try and avoid the obvious conclusion that they refused to settle a lawsuit.

So there was a cost to this:  It is not cash, but the loss of a standard modern gaming feature that most gamers enjoy. 

Personally, the lack of rumble is one of the biggest downsides of the PS3.  We all know someday it will have a decent game collection...  but it will never have rumble. (Please...  no one be an idiot and say "but 3rd party controllers" as rumble must be in the software as well)

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#21 judge__judy
Member since 2005 • 2129 Posts
[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

Yea I don't care about rumble, I have two beasty 12" subwoofers.
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magus-21

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#22 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="judge__judy"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

Yea I don't care about rumble, I have two beasty 12" subwoofers.

There are other ways to use rumble. Just because most devs were too lazy to do so doesn't mean there aren't some good ways to incorporate it into gameplay. PDZ used rumble really well for the lockpick, and, though I never owned a PS2, I think the MGS used rumble well, too.
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SpruceCaboose

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#23 SpruceCaboose
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[QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"][QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.Javy03
Damage control at its best... :roll:

no its true, Devs have praised it and some devs think its worthless. But at least devs have the option to focus or not to focus on motion sensing. Dont MS fans like options.


    We like out rumble. And I have a Wii for motion sensing. I don't need some tacked on tilt sensing as an "option".
    And to straighten this further, the PS3 has tilt sensing, and it is no where near as precise or as functional as the Wii remote.
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#24 jvonrader
Member since 2006 • 2183 Posts

The Splinter Cell franchise uses rumble well.

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#25 Mystikef
Member since 2003 • 5125 Posts

[QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.Javy03
I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

You two are noobs.  Rumble desn't add anything?  It adds another complete sensory input?  Sight, Sound....  TOUCH.

The human brain responds fastest to touch.  That means you can react quicker to game information with touch, than by sight and sound alone.  Not to mention...  it can add information to the game.  For example..  getting hit by a sniper that is out of earshot.  You can't see him, hear him...  but you FEEL the bullet hit you.  You can also FEEL the road in driving games, giving you additional information to work with.

Calling rumble "just vibrations" is so very noobish.  That is like calling sound "just molecule vibration" or vision "just light wavelength and intensity  variations."  Rumble has come a long way, and on the 360 the controller can vibrate in mutiple ways with multiple intensities transmitting a great deal of information through touch, which add another complete level of feedback into the game.  Of course...  if you don't like it...  you can just turn it off.  On the PS3...  you can NEVER turn it on.

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InfamousC

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#26 InfamousC
Member since 2006 • 2389 Posts

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"][QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]Some say its great, some say its bad. This doesn't mean anything at all. Now if they said Blu-ray was rubbish, it would be different.SpruceCaboose
Damage control at its best... :roll:

no its true, Devs have praised it and some devs think its worthless. But at least devs have the option to focus or not to focus on motion sensing. Dont MS fans like options.


    We like out rumble. And I have a Wii for motion sensing. I don't need some tacked on tilt sensing as an "option".
    And to straighten this further, the PS3 has tilt sensing, and it is no where near as precise or as functional as the Wii remote.

I turned off rumble on my 360 when I played because it just killed the battery. Wii is designed differently from PS3 so theres going to be different uses for the tilt. Tilt as much to gaming then rumble does IMO.

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jvonrader

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#27 jvonrader
Member since 2006 • 2183 Posts
Rockstar's Table Tennis is another good example of rumble used right - the more rumble feedback you get when setting up a shot, the more likely it is to go out-of-bounds. 
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#28 EtherTwilight
Member since 2005 • 1142 Posts

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.Mystikef

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

You two are noobs. Rumble desn't add anything? It adds another complete sensory input? Sight, Sound.... TOUCH.

The human brain responds fastest to touch. That means you can react quicker to game information with touch, than by sight and sound alone. Not to mention... it can add information to the game. For example.. getting hit by a sniper that is out of earshot. You can't see him, hear him... but you FEEL the bullet hit you. You can also FEEL the road in driving games, giving you additional information to work with.

Calling rumble "just vibrations" is so very noobish. That is like calling sound "just molecule vibration" or vision "just light wavelength and intensity variations." Rumble has come a long way, and on the 360 the controller can vibrate in mutiple ways with multiple intensities transmitting a great deal of information through touch, which add another complete level of feedback into the game. Of course... if you don't like it... you can just turn it off. On the PS3... you can NEVER turn it on.



Noob? I believe not. I've been playing videogames long enough that I remember when rumble was new. "So have I, you're still a noob!"

Heh.

See, the problem here, champ, is that all of those "neat" little features with the rumble are entirely aesthetic, and purely subjective. Does a rumble feature actually add anything to a racing game? Being able to "feel" the "rumble" of the road. . .in your controller? If it does for you, then cool! But it doesn't do anything for me except become irritating.

Feeling a shot but not hearing it? Please, it's called a shot indicator, and is used in pretty much every shooter on the face of the planet. And there are plenty of other ways that this can be better incorporated into games - For instance, vision going blurry, sound going fuzzy, etc. The "rumble," again, is not a core piece of the actual game - It's just an added feature.

Say it with me now: Added feature. And one that's entirely subjective.

However, on the other hand, the "tilt" function of the sixaxis controller is more than an "added feature." It's an entirely new concept that I believe, once developers with your mindset get their heads out of their rearends, will add a whole new side of game playing. Take a look at the examples I already provided. Think of some more on your own. Go ahead. Are ideas brewing yet? I bet you've got a couple.

Now think about what the rumble's going to do. It's gonna vibrate...in your hand. That's really rad, my cellphone even does that! It enhances the experience of me getting a phone call!

If you like rumble, that's all well and good, but really, don't praise it as being anything more than it is.  And certainly don't examine it as being anything more than a subjective and aesthetic aside.
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16bitkevin

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#29 16bitkevin
Member since 2005 • 3962 Posts
MGS is another good example of rumble done right. It was used to litterally massage you!
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#30 svenskamerikan
Member since 2007 • 1408 Posts
Rumble added something in MLB 2004 - don't know about later versions since I didn't buy them. When you pitch you get the rumble feedback at the edges of the pitchzone. So if you were playing against somebody he couldn't see where the pitch was going, but you could feel it......I played it again on the PS3 and it was almost impossible to get good pitch location without the rumble.........
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#31 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
Of course it's rubbish, it was tacked in at the last minute.
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#32 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts
[QUOTE="Javy03"] I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.



No sound system in the world can replace the rumble in your hands. Your feet would be vibrating not your hands. Also the rumble gives you a sense of ffedback in your games. At least it does for me, especially the driving games. If you get hit/shot, you feel it so you dont need a visual cue to tell you your being hit. Those that say rumble is overrated are lying. It was introduced and became a staple of modern day gaming. No excuse why it shouldnt be in a controller.
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Mystikef

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#33 Mystikef
Member since 2003 • 5125 Posts
[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.EtherTwilight

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

You two are noobs. Rumble desn't add anything? It adds another complete sensory input? Sight, Sound.... TOUCH.

The human brain responds fastest to touch. That means you can react quicker to game information with touch, than by sight and sound alone. Not to mention... it can add information to the game. For example.. getting hit by a sniper that is out of earshot. You can't see him, hear him... but you FEEL the bullet hit you. You can also FEEL the road in driving games, giving you additional information to work with.

Calling rumble "just vibrations" is so very noobish. That is like calling sound "just molecule vibration" or vision "just light wavelength and intensity variations." Rumble has come a long way, and on the 360 the controller can vibrate in mutiple ways with multiple intensities transmitting a great deal of information through touch, which add another complete level of feedback into the game. Of course... if you don't like it... you can just turn it off. On the PS3... you can NEVER turn it on.



Noob? I believe not. I've been playing videogames long enough that I remember when rumble was new. "So have I, you're still a noob!"

Heh.

See, the problem here, champ, is that all of those "neat" little features with the rumble are entirely aesthetic, and purely subjective. Does a rumble feature actually add anything to a racing game? Being able to "feel" the "rumble" of the road. . .in your controller? If it does for you, then cool! But it doesn't do anything for me except become irritating.

Feeling a shot but not hearing it? Please, it's called a shot indicator, and is used in pretty much every shooter on the face of the planet. And there are plenty of other ways that this can be better incorporated into games - For instance, vision going blurry, sound going fuzzy, etc. The "rumble," again, is not a core piece of the actual game - It's just an added feature.

Say it with me now: Added feature. And one that's entirely subjective.

However, on the other hand, the "tilt" function of the sixaxis controller is more than an "added feature." It's an entirely new concept that I believe, once developers with your mindset get their heads out of their rearends, will add a whole new side of game playing. Take a look at the examples I already provided. Think of some more on your own. Go ahead. Are ideas brewing yet? I bet you've got a couple.

Now think about what the rumble's going to do. It's gonna vibrate...in your hand. That's really rad, my cellphone even does that! It enhances the experience of me getting a phone call!

If you like rumble, that's all well and good, but really, don't praise it as being anything more than it is.  And certainly don't examine it as being anything more than a subjective and aesthetic aside.

Yes, yes...  I played Intellivision when it first came out.  It doesn't make me right...  nor does it make you right.

As I said, if you don't like rumble, there is a way to turn it off.  But pretending like it doesn't add anything to a game is STILL a noobish thing to say.

Rumble tech is to the point that you can tell what kind of bullet is hitting you... not just IF a bullet is hitting you.  If you are getting sprayed with machine gun fire and sniped at the same time...  that rumble feature might come in handy.  Especially since there is plenty of visual info that you already need to be focused on.

The there is the heartbeat in horror games... 

The feel of the road in driving games....

The clunk of objects as you bash them....

And so on.  Rumble has hundreds of uses.  So stop being a noob and comparing rumble to your cell phone vibration.  Rumble is interactive and adjustable vibration and can be used to transmit hundreds of different data type.  The reason I am calling you a noob is because you keep making comparrisions to something like a cell phone...  which is either vibrate on or vibrate off. Rumble changes the frequency, intensity, and length of vibration...  which then can convey hundreds of bits of information through that variation.

By your reasoning...  sound could be considered obsolete.  You don't need to "hear" the bullets...  there are shot indicators.  Of course if you don't like sound...  you can turn it off.  Just like Rumble.

Don't keep trying to sell me on the tilt.  I have no problems with tilt.  I have a problem with the supposedly "most advanced" of the consoles losing a standard feature that all other consoles have had, do have, and always will have.  And they will always give the choice of turning it off to the 10% to 20% of gmaers, like you, that do not enjoy it.

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#34 JiveT
Member since 2005 • 8619 Posts
[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="EtherTwilight"]I can't believe that the loss of rumble is such a big deal. Your controller vibrates. Whoopty-doo. It honestly adds a) Little, or b) None to the actual gameplay at hand. Instead of game developers whining about the "loss," why not do something neat with the technology on hand? Use the tilt functions for stuff that would actually be neat or interesting, and make you feel more intuitive with the game, which rumble is supposed to do but doesn't. Use it for leaning. Use it for quick movements. Use it for complex reloading of guns, pumping shotguns, slamming mags, pulling pins on grenades. There are a ton of possibilities, but saying "zogm it's not teh wii" or "zogm it duzn't have teh rumble!!!1111shiftoneoneone" is ridiculously tactless, ill-informed, and honestly, a bit bias. The fact that some developer doesn't know how to think outside of the box hardly quantifies as news.EtherTwilight

I agree 100%. I see more possibilities with six axis then the vibrator. Especially if you have 5.1 surround sound. THe controller shaking doesnt add anything my nice subwoofer doesnt do.

You two are noobs. Rumble desn't add anything? It adds another complete sensory input? Sight, Sound.... TOUCH.

The human brain responds fastest to touch. That means you can react quicker to game information with touch, than by sight and sound alone. Not to mention... it can add information to the game. For example.. getting hit by a sniper that is out of earshot. You can't see him, hear him... but you FEEL the bullet hit you. You can also FEEL the road in driving games, giving you additional information to work with.

Calling rumble "just vibrations" is so very noobish. That is like calling sound "just molecule vibration" or vision "just light wavelength and intensity variations." Rumble has come a long way, and on the 360 the controller can vibrate in mutiple ways with multiple intensities transmitting a great deal of information through touch, which add another complete level of feedback into the game. Of course... if you don't like it... you can just turn it off. On the PS3... you can NEVER turn it on.



Noob? I believe not. I've been playing videogames long enough that I remember when rumble was new. "So have I, you're still a noob!"

Heh.

See, the problem here, champ, is that all of those "neat" little features with the rumble are entirely aesthetic, and purely subjective. Does a rumble feature actually add anything to a racing game? Being able to "feel" the "rumble" of the road. . .in your controller? If it does for you, then cool! But it doesn't do anything for me except become irritating.

Feeling a shot but not hearing it? Please, it's called a shot indicator, and is used in pretty much every shooter on the face of the planet. And there are plenty of other ways that this can be better incorporated into games - For instance, vision going blurry, sound going fuzzy, etc. The "rumble," again, is not a core piece of the actual game - It's just an added feature.

Say it with me now: Added feature. And one that's entirely subjective.

However, on the other hand, the "tilt" function of the sixaxis controller is more than an "added feature." It's an entirely new concept that I believe, once developers with your mindset get their heads out of their rearends, will add a whole new side of game playing. Take a look at the examples I already provided. Think of some more on your own. Go ahead. Are ideas brewing yet? I bet you've got a couple.

Now think about what the rumble's going to do. It's gonna vibrate...in your hand. That's really rad, my cellphone even does that! It enhances the experience of me getting a phone call!

If you like rumble, that's all well and good, but really, don't praise it as being anything more than it is.  And certainly don't examine it as being anything more than a subjective and aesthetic aside.

After acting all snotty you are still wrong about rumble. It adds a lot to games. There are many posts on here that give plenty of examples. The SIXXAXXIS is a lame gimmick that adds virtually nothing to gameplay. Now if they came out with a game called SHAKE AND BAKE where you floured chicken in a bag it would find its killer app. Games use the rumble with a lot more nuance than you give it credit for and if you are such an "experienced gamer" you would know that.
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Magical_Zebra

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#35 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts


Noob? I believe not. I've been playing videogames long enough that I remember when rumble was new. "So have I, you're still a noob!"

Heh.

See, the problem here, champ, is that all of those "neat" little features with the rumble are entirely aesthetic, and purely subjective. Does a rumble feature actually add anything to a racing game? Being able to "feel" the "rumble" of the road. . .in your controller? If it does for you, then cool! But it doesn't do anything for me except become irritating.

Feeling a shot but not hearing it? Please, it's called a shot indicator, and is used in pretty much every shooter on the face of the planet. And there are plenty of other ways that this can be better incorporated into games - For instance, vision going blurry, sound going fuzzy, etc. The "rumble," again, is not a core piece of the actual game - It's just an added feature.

Say it with me now: Added feature. And one that's entirely subjective.

However, on the other hand, the "tilt" function of the sixaxis controller is more than an "added feature." It's an entirely new concept that I believe, once developers with your mindset get their heads out of their rearends, will add a whole new side of game playing. Take a look at the examples I already provided. Think of some more on your own. Go ahead. Are ideas brewing yet? I bet you've got a couple.

Now think about what the rumble's going to do. It's gonna vibrate...in your hand. That's really rad, my cellphone even does that! It enhances the experience of me getting a phone call!

If you like rumble, that's all well and good, but really, don't praise it as being anything more than it is. And certainly don't examine it as being anything more than a subjective and aesthetic aside.
EtherTwilight


First off CHAMPthe fact that Sony tried to copy Nintendo's design then did a piss poor job of implementing it is ownage in itself. The Wii mote is pretty sensitive/accurate where as the Sixxaxis motion sensing is virtually worthless. You can put whatever spin you want to put on it. The bottom line is that at the very least rumble should have been included with the controller with an option to turn it off. Your arguement? "Blah blah blah they havent developed games for it yet." Well sony should have thought about that. So again its a waiting game? Story of the PS3 life so far, wait wait wait wait wait.
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Terami

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#36 Terami
Member since 2004 • 3992 Posts

I always shut the rumble off.  So, I could care less if it's in there or not. 

As for Sega, maybe they should be self reflecting on their own development, or lack of development, as all we've been seeing from them is rehashed games.  If there's any one company that I'm disappointed with, it's Sega, they used to make such innovative games.  And now what do we have?  Hundreds of Sonic games, a fifth Virtua Fighter(using the same old fighters), another Virtual Tennis and a broken sequel to PSO.  (Note: Nintendo is guilty of this as well.)

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Frizby3

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#37 Frizby3
Member since 2006 • 224 Posts

Some guy in his garage added tilt to the 360....and didn't remove Rumble.  Hello...Sony lied to it's fanbois, they couldn't possibly be as so stupid as not to be capable of both if this amature did.  The fact is they didn't want to pay rumble royalties and shafted their fans instead - thats what you all mean to them.  Sony is a DISGRACE.

Xbox 360 Tilt Controller


watch video here....

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/395291/xbox_360_tilt_controller_finished/

Source : http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEyAuuupyuRjidTrmK.php


Friz

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Magical_Zebra

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#38 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts

Some guy in his garage added tilt to the 360....and didn't remove Rumble. Hello...Sony lied to it's fanbois, they couldn't possibly be as so stupid as not to be capable of both if this amature did. The fact is they didn't want to pay rumble royalties and shafted their fans instead - thats what you all mean to them. Sony is a DISGRACE.

Xbox 360 Tilt Controller


watch video here....

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/395291/xbox_360_tilt_controller_finished/

Source : http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEyAuuupyuRjidTrmK.php


Friz

Frizby3


Damn! Ownage Approved! Sony is simply amazing.  :lol:
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EtherTwilight

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#39 EtherTwilight
Member since 2005 • 1142 Posts
You are all missing my entire point. sub·jec·tive /səbˈdʒɛktɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhb-jek-tiv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective). Is this making sense yet? I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this. I'm not saying that nobody should like rumble. I know that people like rumble. While I staunchly disagree on a personal level, as rumble has never enhanced, in any way, shape, or form, any of my gaming, if it does for you, I again say: great. So what is my point? My entire point is that the possibilities of the sixaxis controller, versus the rumble feature, are almost unfathomably more infinite, and I'm truly hopeful that game developers will, in time, create enough game features to lend credence to my argument. As of now, it's merely a hopeful and optimistic view, and as such, it's much harder for me to defend said feature from an as of right now standpoint. When Lair comes out, and as other companies start experimenting with the technology, then we'll see. In all honesty, if a lack of rumble is enough to make you despise and disregard the Playstation 3, then I think you should put some more thought into who here is truly the noob. Aside from that, there's nothing to say that it's an impossibility that Sony will, at some point in the future, release a sixaxis controller with rumble feature. Not that I personally care, however, because if game companies actually do the things I'm hopeful for, then I'll say so long to rumble, and enjoy breathtaking new directions in gameplay while you're still excited that your controller shakes a certain amount depending on the type of bullets getting fired at you, despite the fact that I can hear the difference from the audio. At any rate, this is a ridiculous thing to be arguing about. Either point could be considered as being something subjective, and I'm a staunch believer in being patient - Particularly when it comes to quality in gaming. Be my guest and continue the flames. I've made my points, and so as the rumble side, and we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I'm not going to continue reposting my opinion, nor should all of you be expected to continually repost yours. The dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.
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deactivated-5967f36c08c33

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#40 deactivated-5967f36c08c33
Member since 2006 • 15614 Posts
Don't we all know this?
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Magical_Zebra

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#41 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts
My entire point is that the possibilities of the sixaxis controller, versus the rumble feature, are almost unfathomably more infinite, and I'm truly hopeful that game developers will, in time, create enough game features to lend credence to my argument. As of now, it's merely a hopeful and optimistic view, and as such, it's much harder for me to defend said feature from an as of right now standpoint. EtherTwilight


Well thats what you should have said in the first place. Instead YOU came off as if the motion sensing tech in the Sixaxxis was revolutionary while downplaying the rumble feature. If rumble doesnt work for you in some form or fashion thats cool to. However the general consensus is that rumble enhances gameplay in all games. If Sony is able to implement games that utilize the motion sensing tech, that is cool to. As it stands now though, the sixaxxis is a lame gimmick tack on. They would have been better just staying with the dualshock then that abomination of a controller.
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#42 Mystikef
Member since 2003 • 5125 Posts

You are all missing my entire point. sub·jec·tive /səbˈdʒɛktɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhb-jek-tiv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective). Is this making sense yet? I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this. I'm not saying that nobody should like rumble. I know that people like rumble. While I staunchly disagree on a personal level, as rumble has never enhanced, in any way, shape, or form, any of my gaming, if it does for you, I again say: great. So what is my point? My entire point is that the possibilities of the sixaxis controller, versus the rumble feature, are almost unfathomably more infinite, and I'm truly hopeful that game developers will, in time, create enough game features to lend credence to my argument. As of now, it's merely a hopeful and optimistic view, and as such, it's much harder for me to defend said feature from an as of right now standpoint. When Lair comes out, and as other companies start experimenting with the technology, then we'll see. In all honesty, if a lack of rumble is enough to make you despise and disregard the Playstation 3, then I think you should put some more thought into who here is truly the noob. Aside from that, there's nothing to say that it's an impossibility that Sony will, at some point in the future, release a sixaxis controller with rumble feature. Not that I personally care, however, because if game companies actually do the things I'm hopeful for, then I'll say so long to rumble, and enjoy breathtaking new directions in gameplay while you're still excited that your controller shakes a certain amount depending on the type of bullets getting fired at you, despite the fact that I can hear the difference from the audio. At any rate, this is a ridiculous thing to be arguing about. Either point could be considered as being something subjective, and I'm a staunch believer in being patient - Particularly when it comes to quality in gaming. Be my guest and continue the flames. I've made my points, and so as the rumble side, and we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I'm not going to continue reposting my opinion, nor should all of you be expected to continually repost yours. The dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.EtherTwilight

I get that you don't like rumble.  That's cool.  But why are you comparing rumble to the tilt?  You don't have to have one or the other...  though Sony has apparently convinced you otherwise.  Think about it.  The Wii has MORE motion control AND rumble.  A 3rd party PS1 contoller from 1999 had both rumble AND tilt.  Tilt is nohting new.  Sony just acts like it is.  Many tilt controllers have come and gone...  you say you are an experienced gamer.  How do you not know this?  And if tilt gets you that excited...  get a Wii!

So now that we are done with tilt:  Rumble should be an option.  Absolutely.  The lack of rumble on the PS3 does make me look down on it, because it is something I enjoy thoroughly in gaming, and the PS3 will never have it. (Developers have not been coding for it)

I will probably buy a PS3 when there is a decent collection of games for it.  But every multiplat will be played on my 360 due to rumble.  I think developers understand that, and since MOST gamers like rumble, it will hurt all multiplat PS3 game sales... as well as the dameage it has done to the PS3's feature set and integrity.  Sony:  "rumble is last gen."  Yeah...  whatever, Sony.  :|

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EtherTwilight

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#43 EtherTwilight
Member since 2005 • 1142 Posts
I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy - Although admittedly I kinda am >_> - and I realize that both can be featured. Though there's the lame "zogm lawsuit'd!" excuse, it's a pretty shallow and dismissive excuse, at best. I realize this.

But this is the direction that Sony is taking, and I am hopeful for it. I acknowledge that Nintendo a) Did it first, and b) Does it better, but honestly, I don't think Nintendo will attract, or even go for, the kind of things I'd like to see this kind of tilt/whatever functionality used for. I think of the Wii and sixaxis, and I think about how it could be used in ways that it would sure cause Jack Thompson vomit in horror. Garrotts, snapping necks, slitting throats, one-on-one grabbling duals (Which are in CoD3, but are totally lame.), leaning, rolling, ducking, bringing up sub-menus, in game capabilities...the list of things that run through my mind are nigh endless. But I don't foresee that kind of "OMG MURDER SIM" coming to the Wii. And that kind of depth and mature gameplay is one thing that I really like in videogames. >_>

But I don't discount any of the consoles. If the Wii surprises me with some surprisingly in-depth and truly inspired gameplay, with software titles that cause me to drool just thinking about them, I'll pick up a Wii. Right now, I'm not that interested. The 360...I'm considering buying one. Considering. A lot's going to depend on Bioshock and Mass Effect...but if I log into GameSpot in the near future, and see both of those with 9's+? Then I'm running to my car and bolting to the Best Buy down the road.

*Shrug*
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Magical_Zebra

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#44 Magical_Zebra
Member since 2003 • 7960 Posts
I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy - Although admittedly I kinda am >_> - and I realize that both can be featured. Though there's the lame "zogm lawsuit'd!" excuse, it's a pretty shallow and dismissive excuse, at best. I realize this.

But this is the direction that Sony is taking, and I am hopeful for it. I acknowledge that Nintendo a) Did it first, and b) Does it better, but honestly, I don't think Nintendo will attract, or even go for, the kind of things I'd like to see this kind of tilt/whatever functionality used for. I think of the Wii and sixaxis, and I think about how it could be used in ways that it would sure cause Jack Thompson vomit in horror. Garrotts, snapping necks, slitting throats, one-on-one grabbling duals (Which are in CoD3, but are totally lame.), leaning, rolling, ducking, bringing up sub-menus, in game capabilities...the list of things that run through my mind are nigh endless. But I don't foresee that kind of "OMG MURDER SIM" coming to the Wii. And that kind of depth and mature gameplay is one thing that I really like in videogames. >_>

But I don't discount any of the consoles. If the Wii surprises me with some surprisingly in-depth and truly inspired gameplay, with software titles that cause me to drool just thinking about them, I'll pick up a Wii. Right now, I'm not that interested. The 360...I'm considering buying one. Considering. A lot's going to depend on Bioshock and Mass Effect...but if I log into GameSpot in the near future, and see both of those with 9's+? Then I'm running to my car and bolting to the Best Buy down the road.

*Shrug*
EtherTwilight


You came off as a fanboy. I dont have a Wii and only briefly played with one. I can give props where props are due and the Wii mote is gonna start a trend especially with the next next gen systems. I guess since I played my first "force feedback" game at the arcades (think it was operation wolf) I have always been a fan of the force feedback/rumble feature. From my point of view if Sony would have ATLEAST included rumble in the controller I could have possibly justified a purchase of a PS3. Coming from rumble and being use to rumble would make my experience gaming rather bland. I have played resistance and in my opinion rumble would have increased my experience with the game. Play any shooting game, when you kick off a round it rumbles, making me feel like there is actually recoil to the weapon.

Driving games, I can always tell when Im loosing control of my car especially in PGR3. And dont tell me "well you can see it" because you actually feel the subtle differences in the driving conditions. Only the most blind fanboys will defend the fact that the PS3 has no rumble and say "bu bu but it doesnt matter".
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MTBare

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#45 MTBare
Member since 2006 • 5176 Posts
Of course a racing dev would be mad that rumble is gone.
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Zaistev_basic

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#46 Zaistev_basic
Member since 2002 • 2975 Posts
The sixxaxis is just a lame excuse for Sony to cover their lose of rumble.
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magus-21

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#47 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
Of course a racing dev would be mad that rumble is gone.MTBare
But a racing dev should be happy for tilt. Yet this one isn't.
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OldSkoolGamer04

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#48 OldSkoolGamer04
Member since 2004 • 1616 Posts

I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy - Although admittedly I kinda am >_> - and I realize that both can be featured. Though there's the lame "zogm lawsuit'd!" excuse, it's a pretty shallow and dismissive excuse, at best. I realize this.

But this is the direction that Sony is taking, and I am hopeful for it. I acknowledge that Nintendo a) Did it first, and b) Does it better, but honestly, I don't think Nintendo will attract, or even go for, the kind of things I'd like to see this kind of tilt/whatever functionality used for. I think of the Wii and sixaxis, and I think about how it could be used in ways that it would sure cause Jack Thompson vomit in horror. Garrotts, snapping necks, slitting throats, one-on-one grabbling duals (Which are in CoD3, but are totally lame.), leaning, rolling, ducking, bringing up sub-menus, in game capabilities...the list of things that run through my mind are nigh endless. But I don't foresee that kind of "OMG MURDER SIM" coming to the Wii. And that kind of depth and mature gameplay is one thing that I really like in videogames. >_>

But I don't discount any of the consoles. If the Wii surprises me with some surprisingly in-depth and truly inspired gameplay, with software titles that cause me to drool just thinking about them, I'll pick up a Wii. Right now, I'm not that interested. The 360...I'm considering buying one. Considering. A lot's going to depend on Bioshock and Mass Effect...but if I log into GameSpot in the near future, and see both of those with 9's+? Then I'm running to my car and bolting to the Best Buy down the road.

*Shrug*
EtherTwilight

Hi, I'd like you to meet Godfather: Blackhand Edition, Manhunt 2, and Sadness.

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nintendofreak_2

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#49 nintendofreak_2
Member since 2005 • 25896 Posts
I think most people would agree with that.spidey008
If they didn't they are in denial or are utter imbeciles.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#50 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts


+



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[/thread]