Xbox One S and Scorpio are like "white goods" machines and MS is addressing a target audience that gaming PCs may not cover.
It's Microsoft that gives gamers multiple options e.g. tablets, laptops, desktop game consoles and desktop gaming PCs which are covered by Windows 10, DirectX11, DirectX12 and UWP. MS needs to improve their handset devices i.e. release Surface Phone with Quadcomm S835 ASAP.
Dude, are you trolling me, I can't keep going round in circles with you. We're done.
You make claims like "the difference is, consoles aren't 'smashing' the PC" without backing it with statistics. China almost single handedly boost PC gaming with both Tencent and Netease having significant revenue share in the Chinese gaming market which has very little to do with western (US, EU) and Japanese markets.
Furthermore, Tencent's PC hardware partner is Intel(1) and their desktop PC games was designed to run fine on recent Intel IGPs.
Until recently, Chinese government has protected their Chinese game software companies by banning foreign game consoles.
You didn't back-up the claim to me that consoles are 'smashing' the PC, it's your claim to prove first. You also failed to define 'smashing'. My interpretation of 'smashing' is the PS4 to the Wii U. That's 'smashing'. What the consoles are doing to the PC is not.
Not to mention, online DD stores such as steam, enjoy VERY healthy sales. And it is quite possible steam out-performs XBL and PSN in terms of online sales. Now I'm saying that without proof and I could be wrong, but it sounds possible.
You're very vague "My arguments are backed up with statistics". Which ones, you jump around all over the place without context, with no rhyme or reason and you keep saying thing which bare little relation to what I'm saying, at least given the lack of context appears that way. It takes three quote chains to understand what you're talking about. That's not good.
I really think we should end this. It's a fruitless argument. You're talking to me like I made this thread. Again you really should be talking to TC about these things.
You are ignoring the stats from USA, Germany, UK and Japan.
Game console market dominates the U.S. market.
Game console dominates on multi-platform EA games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Ubisoft games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Activision games.
UK = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
Germany = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
USA = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
China = PC gaming is higher than console gaming. This is an artificial construct by the Chinese government to support Chinese gaming software companies such as Net Ease and Tencent. Until recently, Chinese government has restricted non-Chinese game consoles.
And you still haven't told me what all this has to do with me. Or anything I said which wasn't a reply to you.
Dude, are you trolling me, I can't keep going round in circles with you. We're done.
You make claims like "the difference is, consoles aren't 'smashing' the PC" without backing it with statistics. China almost single handedly boost PC gaming with both Tencent and Netease having significant revenue share in the Chinese gaming market which has very little to do with western (US, EU) and Japanese markets.
Furthermore, Tencent's PC hardware partner is Intel(1) and their desktop PC games was designed to run fine on recent Intel IGPs.
Until recently, Chinese government has protected their Chinese game software companies by banning foreign game consoles.
You didn't back-up the claim to me that consoles are 'smashing' the PC, it's your claim to prove first. You also failed to define 'smashing'. My interpretation of 'smashing' is the PS4 to the Wii U. That's 'smashing'. What the consoles are doing to the PC is not.
Not to mention, online DD stores such as steam, enjoy VERY healthy sales. And it is quite possible steam out-performs XBL and PSN in terms of online sales. Now I'm saying that without proof and I could be wrong, but it sounds possible.
You're very vague "My arguments are backed up with statistics". Which ones, you jump around all over the place without context, with no rhyme or reason and you keep saying thing which bare little relation to what I'm saying, at least given the lack of context appears that way. It takes three quote chains to understand what you're talking about. That's not good.
I really think we should end this. It's a fruitless argument. You're talking to me like I made this thread. Again you really should be talking to TC about these things.
You are ignoring the stats from USA, Germany, UK and Japan.
Game console market dominates the U.S. market.
Game console dominates on multi-platform EA games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Ubisoft games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Activision games.
UK = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
Germany = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
USA = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
China = PC gaming is higher than console gaming. This is an artificial construct by the Chinese government to support Chinese gaming software companies such as Net Ease and Tencent. Until recently, Chinese government has restricted non-Chinese game consoles.
And you still haven't told me what all this has to do with me. Or anything I said which wasn't a reply to you.
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
You make claims like "the difference is, consoles aren't 'smashing' the PC" without backing it with statistics. China almost single handedly boost PC gaming with both Tencent and Netease having significant revenue share in the Chinese gaming market which has very little to do with western (US, EU) and Japanese markets.
Furthermore, Tencent's PC hardware partner is Intel(1) and their desktop PC games was designed to run fine on recent Intel IGPs.
Until recently, Chinese government has protected their Chinese game software companies by banning foreign game consoles.
You didn't back-up the claim to me that consoles are 'smashing' the PC, it's your claim to prove first. You also failed to define 'smashing'. My interpretation of 'smashing' is the PS4 to the Wii U. That's 'smashing'. What the consoles are doing to the PC is not.
Not to mention, online DD stores such as steam, enjoy VERY healthy sales. And it is quite possible steam out-performs XBL and PSN in terms of online sales. Now I'm saying that without proof and I could be wrong, but it sounds possible.
You're very vague "My arguments are backed up with statistics". Which ones, you jump around all over the place without context, with no rhyme or reason and you keep saying thing which bare little relation to what I'm saying, at least given the lack of context appears that way. It takes three quote chains to understand what you're talking about. That's not good.
I really think we should end this. It's a fruitless argument. You're talking to me like I made this thread. Again you really should be talking to TC about these things.
You are ignoring the stats from USA, Germany, UK and Japan.
Game console market dominates the U.S. market.
Game console dominates on multi-platform EA games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Ubisoft games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Activision games.
UK = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
Germany = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
USA = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
China = PC gaming is higher than console gaming. This is an artificial construct by the Chinese government to support Chinese gaming software companies such as Net Ease and Tencent. Until recently, Chinese government has restricted non-Chinese game consoles.
And you still haven't told me what all this has to do with me. Or anything I said which wasn't a reply to you.
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
Applies to El Tormented except he lives in his moms basement and doesn't play games. He scours the internet for negative Xbox news as well as anything and everything related to sales and graphics.
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
Applies to El Tormented except he lives in his moms basement and doesn't play games. He scours the internet for negative Xbox news as well as anything and everything related to sales and graphics.
@tormentos: .. Where do people get these ideas that they are going to cram desktop cpus and gpus into small enclosed boxes with shitty cooling? Hell that cpu doesn't even make any sense, it was marketed as a overclocker in which there are i5's that outperform it in stock range for almost the same price..
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
Well that is the thing some of us are man enough to have one hook up any way,in my family room my PC is connected to my 1080p tv,i seat like 4 feet away from it and use a wireless mouse and keyboard hell i even had a wired controller hook to it.
Is not 2000,hooking a PC to your TV is a piece of cake completely plug and play by HDMI.
@kingtito said:
Applies to El Tormented except he lives in his moms basement and doesn't play games. He scours the internet for negative Xbox news as well as anything and everything related to sales and graphics.
My house doesn't have a basement aren't you Puerto Rican.? most houses here don't have basements.
I live with my wife and kids.
And unlike you i am not a blind fanboy on denial about being a fanboy..hahahaa
But but but sony force me to buy blu-ray but but sony told me to get 2 jobs..hahahaa
Get some balls pussy and admit that you are a lemming who bitch about every cow on this place while you do the exact same thing for he xbox..hahahahaa
@sSubZerOo said:
@tormentos: .. Where do people get these ideas that they are going to cram desktop cpus and gpus into small enclosed boxes with shitty cooling? Hell that cpu doesn't even make any sense, it was marketed as a overclocker in which there are i5's that outperform it in stock range for almost the same price..
I am not saying it would get that one,but for your information consoles did have complete CPU once the OG xbox had a pentium 3,and the 360 a PPC one,so did the PS3 which had one powerful CPU on 2006 pretty big.
By the way the PS3 PSU was 380 watts,now i am not saying that will be the case here,but yeah it has happen,and laptops are even smaller and cramped with even more poor cooling,hell the xbox one has a huge ass fan,and has good enough dissipation.
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
@tormentos: You have any idea how much laptops cost with something the RX480 power is placed in? At least $1100. Every console thus far released has had absolutely horrid cooling, which is obvious with the horribly underpowered cpu's they are shipped with. Yeah the XboxOne has that huge fan.. To cool a low watt jaguar amd chip and a cut down 7850.. Laptop thermals furthermore are all over the place in which many have absolutely terrible cooling now due to the push of making them thinner. To suggest we are some how going to see something for $500 in a cramped box with poor cooling to match a cost in pc is unrealistic. Because it completely disregards the space they have to work with and the limited cooling under a tight budget. It's why these consoles have to have heavily modified versions for their hardware.
@tormentos: I know a lot of people who do not want to connect a PC to their TV. I know a lot of women (including my lady) who wouldn't let me connect a PC to my living room TV no matter how much I begged.
So, unless you are a kid and play games in your room in your parent's house, it really doesn't matter.
Well that is the thing some of us are man enough to have one hook up any way,in my family room my PC is connected to my 1080p tv,i seat like 4 feet away from it and use a wireless mouse and keyboard hell i even had a wired controller hook to it.
Is not 2000,hooking a PC to your TV is a piece of cake completely plug and play by HDMI.
super easy to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch... Plugin it in is not the issue, the whole system is just not as user friendly
Sw is full of Sony fanboys calling out the Xbox being the lesser powerful console. Sure it is but what about when the Scorpio comes out? Where do they have to run to then? Exclusives? Those couple of games they have that are not even meant for alot of people. And they are running out of games now, meanwhile Spencer confirmed alot of games coming up at E3 and next years.
The hypocracy will bite the Sony fanboys this year.
You are ignoring the stats from USA, Germany, UK and Japan.
Game console market dominates the U.S. market.
Game console dominates on multi-platform EA games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Ubisoft games.
Game console dominates on multi-platform Activision games.
UK = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
Germany = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
USA = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.
China = PC gaming is higher than console gaming. This is an artificial construct by the Chinese government to support Chinese gaming software companies such as Net Ease and Tencent. Until recently, Chinese government has restricted non-Chinese game consoles.
And you still haven't told me what all this has to do with me. Or anything I said which wasn't a reply to you.
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
Sw is full of Sony fanboys calling out the Xbox being the lesser powerful console. Sure it is but what about when the Scorpio comes out? Where do they have to run to then? Exclusives? Those couple of games they have that are not even meant for alot of people. And they are running out of games now, meanwhile Spencer confirmed alot of games coming up at E3 and next years.
The hypocracy will bite the Sony fanboys this year.
Lol, I've been calling it for ages that he secretly wants a Scorpio... Sony fanboys love the graphics power! We all know that...
And you still haven't told me what all this has to do with me. Or anything I said which wasn't a reply to you.
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
Sw is full of Sony fanboys calling out the Xbox being the lesser powerful console. Sure it is but what about when the Scorpio comes out? Where do they have to run to then? Exclusives? Those couple of games they have that are not even meant for alot of people. And they are running out of games now, meanwhile Spencer confirmed alot of games coming up at E3 and next years.
The hypocracy will bite the Sony fanboys this year.
Post like this really make me laugh,want to talk about hypocrisy? OK
The PS2 vs xbox generation? All generation long after the xbox landed it was the xbox has the superior version.
Lets move to the PS3 and 360 generation again 90% of multiplatforms or more were superior on xbox 360 and lemmings could not stop bragging about it,from a missing patch of grass to highlighting how Red dead redemption and GTA4 were 720p on xbox 360 and 640p on PS3.lol
And the fun part is that they could see the HUGE difference between 720p and 640p,but when this gen started and the xbox one was doing 720p and the PS4 doing 1080p suddenly their loss their eyesight,suddenly they could not see any difference.
The fun part is that Scorpio doesn't magically make the xbox one perform better,just like the Pro doesn't make normal PS4 run better,so the great majority of lemmings this gen and this holiday will be playing the worse version of pretty much every single game,the thing about been in the middle is that while you don't get to be first you also don't get to be LAST..
What you have receive from cows this generation my hypocrite friend is a huge douse of Karma for the 2 generation in a row that you ride graphics...lol
You may downplay PS4 exclusives but at least we have exclusives which is more than we can say for the shitty xbox one and its line up of multiplatforms games which are superior on PC even to scorpio that hasn't release,so the superior version of uncharted is only on PS4 while the superior version of Forza and gears is on PC before scorpio is even out..ahaha
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
What's your end game scenario with PC's advantage? Does your end game scenario with PC's advantage kill Xbox?
An advantage must have value to be an advantage and if the average person can't assemble their own PC then the advantage is meaningless.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
All of this because you think I care enough to have an end game? Why would I want to "kill" consoles? It's absurd. When did a thread about the pros and cons of the PC and Scorpio become some epic battle about markets.
So something can't be good without it ending the competition? Are you a massive Justin Bieber fan? Because he enjoys much higher sales, probably packs out more arenas and has more popularity than most. The PC is still better than the Xbox at least. It enjoys pretty much all of the Xbox's advantages and still has many, many more exclusives and games Xbox doesn't. I never claimed the PC was better than the PS4 or even the Wii U. At least the Wii U has exclusives. But for a PC gamer, the Xbox One is the most expensive netflix player you could probably get.
Also, here's a weakness in your argument. You're focusing on Xbox, which is fine, but all of your statistics involve consoles vastly more popular than the Xbox One. The PS4, the handhelds... I'll bet the PC is at least doing better than the Xbox One on it's own which seems to be the focus of this tedious back and forth we're engaged in.
Also, the idea that 'an advantage is meaningless because the average person can't do it', leaves me speechless.
The worst thing is, I never made any of these arguments. I never said consoles shouldn't exist, I never said they sell bad. Do you realise you invented this argument and proceeded to engage me in it.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
tormentos never beats anyone.... Except at meltdowns. Your credibility is forever ruined.
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
1. It's you who is gasping for air. Your arguments are NOT backed by cold hard numbers. Your personality attacks shows you have lost the argument!
2. BULLSHIT
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Imo, PC is the better deal since Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
Let's look at the costs past hardware. PC has access to an incredible amount of cheap games with a huge back-catalogue. Still has exclusives, the option for 60fps on anything and mods.
PS4 is turning into a better deal by the month with it's exclusives and I always have time for Nintendo.
Against your "better deal" argument.
You haven't included labor cost to assemble the PC.
PC build against PS4 Slim
PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VQjzWX Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VQjzWX/by_merchant/
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($49.83 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital RE3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($34.88 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon RX 470 4GB Red Dragon Video Card ($163.98 @ Newegg)
Case: VIVO CASE-V00 ATX Mini Tower Case ($27.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Power Supply: Logisys 575W ATX Power Supply ($27.89 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $461.42 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-02-10 21:03 EST-0500
PC build doesn't include OS.
-----------
If Vega 11 directly replaces Polaris 10 and keeps the same 256bit GDDR5-8000 memory solution and PCB, it will be beaten by Scorpio's Vega 11 with 384 bit GDDR5-7000 memory solution.
According to AMD's product tier guidance, any SKU with greater than 256 bit memory bus may have 4K resolution target.
PC's Vega 11 XT must have 256 bit GDDR5X to rival Scorpio's 384 bit GDDR5-7000 memory solution.
Scorpio's 384 bit memory bus is above AMD's PC mainstream 256 bit memory bus PCB solution. Microsoft's Scorpio PR on 4K is just repeating AMD's guidance.
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
What's your end game position with your "Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore" argument?
How come western multiplatform game companies financial results shows XBO higher or matching revenue numbers when compared to PCs?
Here's a weakness in your argument, based on western platform game companies sample results i.e. XBO is doing better than PC. You are arguing via a bet without stats.
China almost singlehandedly boosting PC which is not applicable for USA.
Both TC and You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio when western platform game companies sample results are showing the opposite.
I argue with market stats and financial data samples and You argued with bets.
"You are arguing PC's so-called advantage will doom Scorpio". No, you're making shit up. In fact, you're arguing with yourself, since I have already stated that I have no interest in the Scorpio's doom. And it seems to fly over your head that I never implied or involved myself in 'Xbox doom talk'. Seriously, how insecure are you about this bloody Xbox console?
TC is right, you are a lemming in denial. Do you realise, you take this so personally, you twist someone talking about advantages of the PC, as a slight against your precious Xbox console and then proceed to argue with yourself about it. What is the matter with you.
Do you not understand that pretty much all of what you have said is literally irrelevant to me, considering you are arguing against points I never made or things I never implied? My OP was CLEARLY based on personal opinion, I can tell, because at the begining of the post, I stated, wait for it... "IMO".
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
1. It's you who is gasping for air. Your arguments are NOT backed by cold hard numbers. Your personality attacks shows you have lost the argument!
2. BULLSHIT
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Imo, PC is the better deal since Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
Let's look at the costs past hardware. PC has access to an incredible amount of cheap games with a huge back-catalogue. Still has exclusives, the option for 60fps on anything and mods.
PS4 is turning into a better deal by the month with it's exclusives and I always have time for Nintendo.
Against your "better deal" argument.
You haven't included labor cost to assemble the PC.
PC build against PS4 Slim
------------
-----------
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
What's your end game position with your "Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore" argument?
How come western multiplatform game companies financial results shows XBO higher or matching revenue numbers when compared to PCs?
1. lol, my argument doesn't have to be backed up by anything. Hence why I said "IMO". That means I don't have to prove anything.
2. I don't have to include labour costs, because you were assuming I was refering to the average gamer. In fact you go on to create rules for the argument that I wasn't following, which was rather stupid. Basically your first argument is based on the ridiculous notion that 'an advantage can only be beneficial, if it's easily accessible to the average person'. The other ridiculous notion is that 'an advantage to one is about teh dooming the other'. You then went on to assume I was interested in 'teh doom of Xbox'.
Since you like talking about what the average person does and doesn't do, the average person certainly does not feel the need to do a market analysis for a product comparison, in some desperate attempt to prove superiority. People usually just compare hardware and software and like me, tend to leave the market data to the people who actually need to know them.
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
Please read the following paragraph OVER and OVER again, because you NEED to grasp it. I don't know if I can break it down any simpler than this, I've even underlined parts for you:
The fact you think I have lost this argument is laughable, because it isn't even a challenge. Partly because your arguments are based on a false assumption of what I'm implying or what my intentions are, therefore your entire argument is pretty much irrelevant to me. And partly because of the fact that my argument emphasises "imo" which makes my intentions clear to practically everyone, means I don't even need to try and prove anything. If I failed to write "imo", then you would be fully within your rights to criticise what I'm saying, because it would look like I'm making a broad fact based statement. Right now you're trying to defeat an opinion... Repeat that part to yourself too. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
You are not fooling anybody with your argument's end game e.g. You have argued PC going better than XBO via a bet. Without any western multiplatform gaming company's financial result sample, your argument backed by a bet is just bullshit.
I don't have to be a Lem when western multiplatform gaming company's financial results are f..vcking up your argument. I'm arguing with cold numbers and you don't like it i.e. PC's so called advantage is not game console buyer's valued advantage for western multiplatform gaming company's financial results. Who are you? MSFT knows more than you.
Furthermore, MSFT has fully entered the X86 PC hardware business i.e. Surface Pro, Surface Studio and Xbox One device families are part of that business model.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
1. It's you who is gasping for air. Your arguments are NOT backed by cold hard numbers. Your personality attacks shows you have lost the argument!
2. BULLSHIT
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Imo, PC is the better deal since Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
Let's look at the costs past hardware. PC has access to an incredible amount of cheap games with a huge back-catalogue. Still has exclusives, the option for 60fps on anything and mods.
PS4 is turning into a better deal by the month with it's exclusives and I always have time for Nintendo.
Against your "better deal" argument.
You haven't included labor cost to assemble the PC.
PC build against PS4 Slim
------------
-----------
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
What's your end game position with your "Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore" argument?
How come western multiplatform game companies financial results shows XBO higher or matching revenue numbers when compared to PCs?
1. lol, my argument doesn't have to be backed up by anything. Hence why I said "IMO". That means I don't have to prove anything.
2. I don't have to include labour costs, because you were assuming I was refering to the average gamer. In fact you go on to create rules for the argument that I wasn't following, which was rather stupid. Basically your first argument is based on the ridiculous notion that 'an advantage can only be beneficial, if it's easily accessible to the average person'. The other ridiculous notion is that 'an advantage to one is about teh dooming the other'. You then went on to assume I was interested in 'teh doom of Xbox'.
Since you like talking about what the average person does and doesn't do, the average person certainly does not feel the need to do a market analysis for a product comparison, in some desperate attempt to prove superiority. People usually just compare hardware and software and like me, tend to leave the market data to the people who actually need to know them.
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
Please read the following paragraph OVER and OVER again, because you NEED to grasp it. I don't know if I can break it down any simpler than this, I've even underlined parts for you:
The fact you think I have lost this argument is laughable, because it isn't even a challenge. Partly because your arguments are based on a false assumption of what I'm implying or what my intentions are, therefore your entire argument is pretty much irrelevant to me. And partly because of the fact that my argument emphasises "imo" which makes my intentions clear to practically everyone, means I don't even need to try and prove anything. If I failed to write "imo", then you would be fully within your rights to criticise what I'm saying, because it would look like I'm making a broad fact based statement. Right now you're trying to defeat an opinion... Repeat that part to yourself too. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
1. If that's your argument quality, then it's Ok for me to say your argument for PC's so called advantage has no value for many gamers without any statistics backing?
The end result is
Poster A: PC is better.
Poster B: Console is better
Repeat the crap arguments in a loop.
2. It may be irrelevant to you but the world doesn't revolve around you. You are making an argument to predicate Xbox One's market results e.g. you asserted "MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer".
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
You made an assertion "The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer" without statistics data support.
My post debunks your arguments e.g. western multiplatform games still sells well on XBO relative to PC!
XBO's Halo 5: Guardians is different from PC's Halo 5 Forge i.e. map editor.
You are acting so desperate not to look like a fool. But you do, you do look like a fool. And you really are no good at arguing.
1. I used the word bet, as a way of saying 'there's a possibility', I couldn't be bothered to prove something I have no interest in. It's desperate to take it in the context you did.
2. Stop trying to sound like @tormentos. You're not good enough. You're a desperate lem, trying way too hard to apply your argument to me. You say you bring facts, show me in my first post, where I made made the argument you want to defeat. Now I see why tormentos beats you all the time, you don't even know who to aim your arguments at, let alone argue it well.
1. It's you who is gasping for air. Your arguments are NOT backed by cold hard numbers. Your personality attacks shows you have lost the argument!
2. BULLSHIT
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Imo, PC is the better deal since Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
Let's look at the costs past hardware. PC has access to an incredible amount of cheap games with a huge back-catalogue. Still has exclusives, the option for 60fps on anything and mods.
PS4 is turning into a better deal by the month with it's exclusives and I always have time for Nintendo.
Against your "better deal" argument.
You haven't included labor cost to assemble the PC.
PC build against PS4 Slim
------------
-----------
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
What's your end game position with your "Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore" argument?
How come western multiplatform game companies financial results shows XBO higher or matching revenue numbers when compared to PCs?
1. lol, my argument doesn't have to be backed up by anything. Hence why I said "IMO". That means I don't have to prove anything.
2. I don't have to include labour costs, because you were assuming I was refering to the average gamer. In fact you go on to create rules for the argument that I wasn't following, which was rather stupid. Basically your first argument is based on the ridiculous notion that 'an advantage can only be beneficial, if it's easily accessible to the average person'. The other ridiculous notion is that 'an advantage to one is about teh dooming the other'. You then went on to assume I was interested in 'teh doom of Xbox'.
Since you like talking about what the average person does and doesn't do, the average person certainly does not feel the need to do a market analysis for a product comparison, in some desperate attempt to prove superiority. People usually just compare hardware and software and like me, tend to leave the market data to the people who actually need to know them.
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
Please read the following paragraph OVER and OVER again, because you NEED to grasp it. I don't know if I can break it down any simpler than this, I've even underlined parts for you:
The fact you think I have lost this argument is laughable, because it isn't even a challenge. Partly because your arguments are based on a false assumption of what I'm implying or what my intentions are, therefore your entire argument is pretty much irrelevant to me. And partly because of the fact that my argument emphasises "imo" which makes my intentions clear to practically everyone, means I don't even need to try and prove anything. If I failed to write "imo", then you would be fully within your rights to criticise what I'm saying, because it would look like I'm making a broad fact based statement. Right now you're trying to defeat an opinion... Repeat that part to yourself too. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
1. If that's your argument quality, then it's Ok for me to say your argument for PC's so called advantage has no value for many gamers without any statistics backing?
The end result is
Poster A: PC is better.
Poster B: Console is better
Repeat the crap arguments in a loop.
2. It may be irrelevant to you but the world doesn't revolve around you. You are making an argument to predicate Xbox One's market results e.g. you asserted "MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer".
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
You made an assertion "The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer" without statistics data support.
My post debunks your arguments e.g. western multiplatform games still sells well on XBO relative to PC!
XBO's Halo 5: Guardians is different from PC's Halo 5 Forge i.e. map editor.
1. NO WAY... Does ronvalencia finally understand what a personal opinion is? After 8 or 9 years and 20511 posts in SWs. I think we should declare the 20th February as ronvaencia day in here in SWs.
It's alright fellow system warriors, you are free to post your personal opinions again without doing a market analysis, ronvalencia understands. Enjoy yourselves, talk about the games you like and the hardwares you think are better. :-D
2. No lol, your multiplatform sales have little impact on the specific demographic I am talking about, not to mention there are many many demographics. And your argument still screams of insecurity about 'teh Xbox doom'. Also western 'multiplatform games' are still console games in design for the most part, so of course they would sell better on consoles. Especially with the heavy marketing they get. Even you don't consider all the variables, you just take the data you see on the face of it and wave it around without seeing the full picture. Those graphs are probably about simplifying a part of an exhaustive and long market report. Do yourself a favour, leave the corporate stuff to the businessman who understand the data, have the full report and know what to do with it.
Your point of argument about what the average gamer does and does not do, is still a crude simplification.
Oh and whoopy, Halo 5, PS4s Horizon just scored a 9. Another decent exclusive.
1. It's you who is gasping for air. Your arguments are NOT backed by cold hard numbers. Your personality attacks shows you have lost the argument!
2. BULLSHIT
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Imo, PC is the better deal since Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
Let's look at the costs past hardware. PC has access to an incredible amount of cheap games with a huge back-catalogue. Still has exclusives, the option for 60fps on anything and mods.
PS4 is turning into a better deal by the month with it's exclusives and I always have time for Nintendo.
Against your "better deal" argument.
You haven't included labor cost to assemble the PC.
PC build against PS4 Slim
------------
-----------
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore.
What's your end game position with your "Xbox doesn't have exclusives anymore" argument?
How come western multiplatform game companies financial results shows XBO higher or matching revenue numbers when compared to PCs?
1. lol, my argument doesn't have to be backed up by anything. Hence why I said "IMO". That means I don't have to prove anything.
2. I don't have to include labour costs, because you were assuming I was refering to the average gamer. In fact you go on to create rules for the argument that I wasn't following, which was rather stupid. Basically your first argument is based on the ridiculous notion that 'an advantage can only be beneficial, if it's easily accessible to the average person'. The other ridiculous notion is that 'an advantage to one is about teh dooming the other'. You then went on to assume I was interested in 'teh doom of Xbox'.
Since you like talking about what the average person does and doesn't do, the average person certainly does not feel the need to do a market analysis for a product comparison, in some desperate attempt to prove superiority. People usually just compare hardware and software and like me, tend to leave the market data to the people who actually need to know them.
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
Please read the following paragraph OVER and OVER again, because you NEED to grasp it. I don't know if I can break it down any simpler than this, I've even underlined parts for you:
The fact you think I have lost this argument is laughable, because it isn't even a challenge. Partly because your arguments are based on a false assumption of what I'm implying or what my intentions are, therefore your entire argument is pretty much irrelevant to me. And partly because of the fact that my argument emphasises "imo" which makes my intentions clear to practically everyone, means I don't even need to try and prove anything. If I failed to write "imo", then you would be fully within your rights to criticise what I'm saying, because it would look like I'm making a broad fact based statement. Right now you're trying to defeat an opinion... Repeat that part to yourself too. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
1. If that's your argument quality, then it's Ok for me to say your argument for PC's so called advantage has no value for many gamers without any statistics backing?
The end result is
Poster A: PC is better.
Poster B: Console is better
Repeat the crap arguments in a loop.
2. It may be irrelevant to you but the world doesn't revolve around you. You are making an argument to predicate Xbox One's market results e.g. you asserted "MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer".
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
You made an assertion "The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer" without statistics data support.
My post debunks your arguments e.g. western multiplatform games still sells well on XBO relative to PC!
XBO's Halo 5: Guardians is different from PC's Halo 5 Forge i.e. map editor.
1. NO WAY... Does ronvalencia finally understand what a personal opinion is? After 8 or 9 years and 20511 posts in SWs. I think we should declare the 20th February as ronvaencia day in here in SWs.
It's alright fellow system warriors, you are free to post your personal opinions again without doing a market analysis, ronvalencia understands. Enjoy yourselves, talk about the games you like and the hardwares you think are better. :-D
2. No lol, your multiplatform sales have little impact on the specific demographic I am talking about, not to mention there are many many demographics. And your argument still screams of insecurity about 'teh Xbox doom'. Also western 'multiplatform games' are still console games in design for the most part, so of course they would sell better on consoles. Especially with the heavy marketing they get. Even you don't consider all the variables, you just take the data you see on the face of it and wave it around without seeing the full picture. Those graphs are probably about simplifying a part of an exhaustive and long market report. Do yourself a favour, leave the corporate stuff to the businessman who understand the data, have the full report and know what to do with it.
Your point of argument about what the average gamer does and does not do, is still a crude simplification.
Oh and whoopy, Halo 5, PS4s Horizon just scored a 9. Another decent exclusive.
1. Wrong, some personal opinions are presented as a result prediction i.e. XYZ device is useless when compare ABC device.
Opinions needs to reflect reality i.e. the same XYZ device rivals or beating ABC device.
2. Again, you made unsupported bullshit argument. My arguments are backed actual sampled results, stats and current PSN sales rankings.
Current PSN sales dominance with multi-platform games covers your "specific demographic I am talking about". Have you actually considered multi-platform game developers can actual create good games?
1. lol, my argument doesn't have to be backed up by anything. Hence why I said "IMO". That means I don't have to prove anything.
2. I don't have to include labour costs, because you were assuming I was refering to the average gamer. In fact you go on to create rules for the argument that I wasn't following, which was rather stupid. Basically your first argument is based on the ridiculous notion that 'an advantage can only be beneficial, if it's easily accessible to the average person'. The other ridiculous notion is that 'an advantage to one is about teh dooming the other'. You then went on to assume I was interested in 'teh doom of Xbox'.
Since you like talking about what the average person does and doesn't do, the average person certainly does not feel the need to do a market analysis for a product comparison, in some desperate attempt to prove superiority. People usually just compare hardware and software and like me, tend to leave the market data to the people who actually need to know them.
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
Please read the following paragraph OVER and OVER again, because you NEED to grasp it. I don't know if I can break it down any simpler than this, I've even underlined parts for you:
The fact you think I have lost this argument is laughable, because it isn't even a challenge. Partly because your arguments are based on a false assumption of what I'm implying or what my intentions are, therefore your entire argument is pretty much irrelevant to me. And partly because of the fact that my argument emphasises "imo" which makes my intentions clear to practically everyone, means I don't even need to try and prove anything. If I failed to write "imo", then you would be fully within your rights to criticise what I'm saying, because it would look like I'm making a broad fact based statement. Right now you're trying to defeat an opinion... Repeat that part to yourself too. Do you understand how ridiculous that is?
1. If that's your argument quality, then it's Ok for me to say your argument for PC's so called advantage has no value for many gamers without any statistics backing?
The end result is
Poster A: PC is better.
Poster B: Console is better
Repeat the crap arguments in a loop.
2. It may be irrelevant to you but the world doesn't revolve around you. You are making an argument to predicate Xbox One's market results e.g. you asserted "MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer".
The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer, that is the gamer who uses both the PC and the console. Why would the average PC gamer choose a console that plays the same games. From the perspective of the PC gamer, it is more than viable to dismiss the Xbox One as a choice.
You made an assertion "The point of the Xbox not having exclusives means MS has made it an all but useless console to the demographic of the PC/Console gamer" without statistics data support.
My post debunks your arguments e.g. western multiplatform games still sells well on XBO relative to PC!
XBO's Halo 5: Guardians is different from PC's Halo 5 Forge i.e. map editor.
1. NO WAY... Does ronvalencia finally understand what a personal opinion is? After 8 or 9 years and 20511 posts in SWs. I think we should declare the 20th February as ronvaencia day in here in SWs.
It's alright fellow system warriors, you are free to post your personal opinions again without doing a market analysis, ronvalencia understands. Enjoy yourselves, talk about the games you like and the hardwares you think are better. :-D
2. No lol, your multiplatform sales have little impact on the specific demographic I am talking about, not to mention there are many many demographics. And your argument still screams of insecurity about 'teh Xbox doom'. Also western 'multiplatform games' are still console games in design for the most part, so of course they would sell better on consoles. Especially with the heavy marketing they get. Even you don't consider all the variables, you just take the data you see on the face of it and wave it around without seeing the full picture. Those graphs are probably about simplifying a part of an exhaustive and long market report. Do yourself a favour, leave the corporate stuff to the businessman who understand the data, have the full report and know what to do with it.
Your point of argument about what the average gamer does and does not do, is still a crude simplification.
Oh and whoopy, Halo 5, PS4s Horizon just scored a 9. Another decent exclusive.
1. Wrong, some personal opinions are presented as a result prediction i.e. XYZ device is useless when compare ABC device.
Opinions needs to reflect reality i.e. the same XYZ device rivals or beating ABC device.
2. Again, you made unsupported bullshit argument. My arguments are backed actual sampled results, stats and current PSN sales rankings.
Current PSN sales dominance with multi-platform games covers your "specific demographic I am talking about". Have you actually considered multi-platform game developers can actual create good games?
1. Nope, opinion is simply thoughts based on preference, we're all allowed to have them. Don't be desperate.
2. But your argument still bares very little relation to anything I said apart from your convenient made up bridges to relate arguments.
Oh and your PSN sales information highlights a failure in your argument. See you don't take the time to read carefully, you reply on a knee-jerk reaction. I never said PC/Console gamers weren't interested in consoles anymore, I said they have little reason to be interested in Xbox anymore. PS consoles have plenty of exclusives and unique games that make it well worth a buy for anyone including PC gamers. Xbox has... Halo 5 according to you.
Also, it's just occurred to me, a while back you posted this: "My post is against your "Let's look at the costs past hardware" i.e. I config'ed PC builds with new parts that corresponds to PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro.". Please tell me, you understood that when I said "past hardware", I didn't mean 'hardware from the past'. Please tell me you understood it as 'Let's look at the PC beyond it's hardware, so the advantages of the software side'. For example, as a former GTX 750 Ti owner, I constantly make the argument that there's more than just powerful hardware to PC gaming, such as the shit loads of great games you can get cheap from Steam and Humble Bundle.
I really hate you right now, PLEASE tell me all this ISN'T because you DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO READ POSTS CAREFULLY. Please tell me that.
Um, well I haven't had the oppertunity really play online much, I'm sure it would be fun. :-)
I meant Steam Link:
As a discrete way to connect to your TV. :-P
You guys were arguing how it's not often convenient to connect a PC to the TV, and I presume, when you mentioned your partner not wanting it, it's because it may look big and cumbersome. I just wanted to put this solution forward.
Um, well I haven't had the oppertunity really play online much, I'm sure it would be fun. :-)
I meant Steam Link:
As a discrete way to connect to your TV. :-P
You guys were arguing how it's not often convenient to connect a PC to the TV, and I presume, when you mentioned your partner not wanting it, it's because it may look big and cumbersome. I just wanted to put this solution forward.
Oh. I have not heard of that before. Have you used it?
Um, well I haven't had the oppertunity really play online much, I'm sure it would be fun. :-)
I meant Steam Link:
As a discrete way to connect to your TV. :-P
You guys were arguing how it's not often convenient to connect a PC to the TV, and I presume, when you mentioned your partner not wanting it, it's because it may look big and cumbersome. I just wanted to put this solution forward.
Oh. I have not heard of that before. Have you used it?
I haven't myself. I heard it can stream 1080p 60fps and you can use any controller with it.
I have my PC and TV in the same room, I don't have much of a need for it. Also I heard that a TV isn't quite up there with a good gaming monitor, with things like latency or whatever, but I don't know the facts about that.
To match Scorpio a RX480 or R390X equivalent GPU would be need it
I'm interested to know where did you get this from? How do you know how powerful the Scorpio is in GPU power? also GPU isn't the only thing you need concern with, CPU and RAM play a role too you know, do you know for certain that the CPU won't be so weak that it will cause bottlenecks like its doing with the PS4 Pro?
To match Scorpio a RX480 or R390X equivalent GPU would be need it
I'm interested to know where did you get this from? How do you know how powerful the Scorpio is in GPU power? also GPU isn't the only thing you need concern with, CPU and RAM play a role too you know, do you know for certain that the CPU won't be so weak that it will cause bottlenecks like its doing with the PS4 Pro?
Tormented is a f..vcking idiot.
Shadow effects are memory bandwidth extensive operations
This is shadow cache disabled
Scorpio's estimate from R9-390X results.
R9-390X's superior memory bandwidth over RX-480 made the difference between meeting/exceeding 30 fps at 4K.
If R9-390X gains Vega 11's tile cache render + delta memory compression, it's might jump to the next GPU level i.e. 5.6 TFLOPS powered 980 Ti and 6.4 TFLOPS GTX 1070.
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/11002/the-amd-vega-gpu-architecture-teaser/3
ROPs & Rasterizers: Binning for the Win(ning)
We’ll suitably round-out our overview of AMD’s Vega teaser with a look at the front and back-ends of the GPU architecture. While AMD has clearly put quite a bit of effort into the shader core, shader engines, and memory, they have not ignored the rasterizers at the front-end or the ROPs at the back-end. In fact this could be one of the most important changes to the architecture from an efficiency standpoint.
Back in August, our pal David Kanter discovered one of the important ingredients of the secret sauce that is NVIDIA’s efficiency optimizations. As it turns out, NVIDIA has been doing tile based rasterization and binning since Maxwell, and that this was likely one of the big reasons Maxwell’s efficiency increased by so much. Though NVIDIA still refuses to comment on the matter, from what we can ascertain, breaking up a scene into tiles has allowed NVIDIA to keep a lot more traffic on-chip, which saves memory bandwidth, but also cuts down on very expensive accesses to VRAM.
For Vega, AMD will be doing something similar. The architecture will add support for what AMD calls the Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer, which true to its name, will give Vega the ability to bin polygons by tile. By doing so, AMD will cut down on the amount of memory accesses by working with smaller tiles that can stay-on chip. This will also allow AMD to do a better job of culling hidden pixels, keeping them from making it to the pixel shaders and consuming resources there.
As we have almost no detail on how AMD or NVIDIA are doing tiling and binning, it’s impossible to say with any degree of certainty just how close their implementations are, so I’ll refrain from any speculation on which might be better. But I’m not going to be too surprised if in the future we find out both implementations are quite similar. The important thing to take away from this right now is that AMD is following a very similar path to where we think NVIDIA captured some of their greatest efficiency gains on Maxwell, and that in turn bodes well for Vega.
Meanwhile, on the ROP side of matters, besides baking in the necessary support for the aforementioned binning technology, AMD is also making one other change to cut down on the amount of data that has to go off-chip to VRAM. AMD has significantly reworked how the ROPs (or as they like to call them, the Render Back-Ends) interact with their L2 cache. Starting with Vega, the ROPs are now clients of the L2 cache rather than the memory controller, allowing them to better and more directly use the relatively spacious L2 cache.
@ronvalencia: Ok guys stop with the average fps graphs.. They literally mean jackshit when they don't take into account lows, and framerate timing.. That average of 35fps may look "tolerable" in your eyes but they don't take into account for instance if they saw the fps drop to 20s to teens, making it unplayable.. Or if the framerate timing was absolutely horrid causing visible stuttering on the display.. Average fps only graphs need to die because they in no way guarantee a smooth experience.
@ronvalencia: Ok guys stop with the average fps graphs.. They literally mean jackshit when they don't take into account lows, and framerate timing.. That average of 35fps may look "tolerable" in your eyes but they don't take into account for instance if they saw the fps drop to 20s to teens, making it unplayable.. Or if the framerate timing was absolutely horrid causing visible stuttering on the display.. Average fps only graphs need to die because they in no way guarantee a smooth experience.
These are PC max/very high details and single step down in graphics settings has significant boost in frame rates with minimal visual quality degradation e.g. 1 step down with shadows can boost frame rates.
From http://www.techspot.com/review/1096-star-wars-battlefront-benchmarks/
"We chose the Ewok planet of Endor (Tana) for testing as it was more graphically demanding than scenes that took place on Hoth or Tatooine, for example".
R9-390X's minimal frame rate is 29 fps.
Scorpio's estimate from R9-390X results. 5.6 TFLOPS R9-290X delivered very close to 30 fps as it's minimum frame rates.
The graphics details from the above benchmarks are higher than XBO's graphics detail settings.
Since the confirmation that games going forward on MS side would be on PC, is reason enough to really think if some one should byte into the Scorpio or byte the bullet and spent a little more for a PC with better equal specs.
They sell the consoles at a loss because they know they can harvest far more back from you later in overpriced game sales and xbox live. The problem this generation is there is a pathetic amount of worthwhile games, so their profits are tanking. Bragging about system sales is a wasted effort.
Only the upfront hardware cost of a PC is a little bit more and the experience is far superior from day one. The recent Freedom Humble Bundle gave me about 5 top rated games I didn't own for £24.82 GBP / $30.00 USD, I'm already fighting out of a backlog right now. Then there was the Green Man Gaming anniversary sales, games like Watch Dogs 2 and Doom at 60% off, then the Square Enix sale and Fallout 4 is -50% right now because why not.
@tormentos: .. Where do people get these ideas that they are going to cram desktop cpus and gpus into small enclosed boxes with shitty cooling? Hell that cpu doesn't even make any sense, it was marketed as a overclocker in which there are i5's that outperform it in stock range for almost the same price..
They've been doing that with laptops, nvidias 1060/1070/1080 don't have mobile counter parts and they just stick the desktop gpu in. Some laptops even come with a normal CPU. The probably isn't as much about heat any more as its battery life.
@tormentos: .. Where do people get these ideas that they are going to cram desktop cpus and gpus into small enclosed boxes with shitty cooling? Hell that cpu doesn't even make any sense, it was marketed as a overclocker in which there are i5's that outperform it in stock range for almost the same price..
They've been doing that with laptops, nvidias 1060/1070/1080 don't have mobile counter parts and they just stick the desktop gpu in. Some laptops even come with a normal CPU. The probably isn't as much about heat any more as its battery life.
These laptops are expensive when compared to PS4
GeForce GTX 1070 (Desktop)
1920 @ 1506 - 1683 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 8000 MHz
GeForce GTX 1070 (Laptop)
2048 @ 1443 - 1645 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 8000 MHz
Radeon RX 470 (Desktop)
2048 @ 926 - 1206 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 6600 MHz
Radeon RX 470 (Laptop)
2048 @ 926 - 1206 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 7000 MHz
There are some differences.
Fire Strike Graphics 1920x1080, GTX 1060 desktop version is ~13 percent faster than mobile GTX 1060 counterpart. AIB OC edition is faster than reference.
At the end of the day, putting aside all the technical mumbo-jumbo and comparison graphs, most gamers don't want a gaming PC and instead prefer consoles... and if they want a high powered 4k capable console, Scorpio will be the most powerful. Simple. Not complicated.
And I know I'm going to get flamed for this but getting Scorpio will be more cost effective than buying a PC to achieve similar results.
@ronvalencia: yet again where is the frame timing? Even a frame rate of 70 can look like crap if there is horrible timing leading to micro stutter.
Why? If 1080p at 30 fps average was good enough, then 4K at 30 fps average would be fine.
Console games at 4K can increase their frame rates with MSAA reduction since 4K is already in SSAA (Super Sample AA) resolution.
MSI R9-390X (6.19 TFLOPS) has 33.9 fps for 0.1 percent low.
When compared to Fury X with 4GB VRAM, R9-390X has 8 GB of VRAM which minimises very low frame rate spikes. It's smoother on R9-390X when compared to Fury X and 980 Ti.
The old Hawaii XT still putting up a fight against newer GPUs lol.
Scorpio just needs Hawaii XT 8GB VRAM like GPU solution for good staying power.
At the end of the day, putting aside all the technical mumbo-jumbo and comparison graphs, most gamers don't want a gaming PC and instead prefer consoles... and if they want a high powered 4k capable console, Scorpio will be the most powerful. Simple. Not complicated.
And I know I'm going to get flamed for this but getting Scorpio will be more cost effective than buying a PC to achieve similar results.
Not when you have a Live yearly toll both..
BY the way scorpio will be doing checker board as well so yeah it will not be 4k in all games.
@ronvalencia said:
Why? If 1080p at 30 fps average was good enough, then 4K at 30 fps average would be fine.
Console games at 4K can increase their frame rates with MSAA reduction since 4K is already in SSAA (Super Sample AA) resolution.
MSI R9-390X (6.19 TFLOPS) has 33.9 fps for 0.1 percent low.
When compared to Fury X with 4GB VRAM, R9-390X has 8 GB of VRAM which minimises very low frame rate spikes. It's smoother on R9-390X when compared to Fury X and 980 Ti.
The old Hawaii XT still putting up a fight against newer GPUs lol.
Scorpio just needs Hawaii XT 8GB VRAM like GPU solution for good staying power.
Is it me or you avoided his frame timing question?
He told you even at 70FPS you have have stutter which make the game feel not fluid even when you are running 70FPS.
Not only that stop posting R390X charts those benchmarks don't have any CPU limitation as they are done on quite capable i7 CPU which Scorpio will not have.
At the end of the day, putting aside all the technical mumbo-jumbo and comparison graphs, most gamers don't want a gaming PC and instead prefer consoles... and if they want a high powered 4k capable console, Scorpio will be the most powerful. Simple. Not complicated.
And I know I'm going to get flamed for this but getting Scorpio will be more cost effective than buying a PC to achieve similar results.
Not when you have a Live yearly toll both..
BY the way scorpio will be doing checker board as well so yeah it will not be 4k in all games.
@ronvalencia said:
Why? If 1080p at 30 fps average was good enough, then 4K at 30 fps average would be fine.
Console games at 4K can increase their frame rates with MSAA reduction since 4K is already in SSAA (Super Sample AA) resolution.
MSI R9-390X (6.19 TFLOPS) has 33.9 fps for 0.1 percent low.
When compared to Fury X with 4GB VRAM, R9-390X has 8 GB of VRAM which minimises very low frame rate spikes. It's smoother on R9-390X when compared to Fury X and 980 Ti.
The old Hawaii XT still putting up a fight against newer GPUs lol.
Scorpio just needs Hawaii XT 8GB VRAM like GPU solution for good staying power.
Is it me or you avoided his frame timing question?
He told you even at 70FPS you have have stutter which make the game feel not fluid even when you are running 70FPS.
Not only that stop posting R390X charts those benchmarks don't have any CPU limitation as they are done on quite capable i7 CPU which Scorpio will not have.
That's frame pacing. For smooth 30 fps, the frame render time must be rendered less than or equal to 33.33 ms. Within the 1000 ms(1 second) time period, you can't have a frame render time exceeding 33.33 ms. The reason why I dismissed frame pacing argument is due to console owners has tolerated 30 fps average and I have posted multi-platform game revenue data to prove it. I decide who, what and when I counter post somebody's assertion.
In the end of the day, the question comes down to what the best box for end user's $$$ and out-of-the-box ease of use i.e. "the white goods" test.
When compared to RX-480 8 GB and 980 Ti 6 GB in my posted graphs, R9-390X 8GB has very small variance between minimum and average frame rateswhich are hints for very stable frame rates.
@tormentos: .. Where do people get these ideas that they are going to cram desktop cpus and gpus into small enclosed boxes with shitty cooling? Hell that cpu doesn't even make any sense, it was marketed as a overclocker in which there are i5's that outperform it in stock range for almost the same price..
They've been doing that with laptops, nvidias 1060/1070/1080 don't have mobile counter parts and they just stick the desktop gpu in. Some laptops even come with a normal CPU. The probably isn't as much about heat any more as its battery life.
These laptops are expensive when compared to PS4
GeForce GTX 1070 (Desktop)
1920 @ 1506 - 1683 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 8000 MHz
GeForce GTX 1070 (Laptop)
2048 @ 1443 - 1645 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 8000 MHz
Radeon RX 470 (Desktop)
2048 @ 926 - 1206 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 6600 MHz
Radeon RX 470 (Laptop)
2048 @ 926 - 1206 (Boost) MHz
256 Bit @ 7000 MHz
There are some differences.
Fire Strike Graphics 1920x1080, GTX 1060 desktop version is ~13 percent faster than mobile GTX 1060 counterpart. AIB OC edition is faster than reference.
AND? They are the same chips. There is no 1060m. The point is you can stick a 1060 in a ps4 sized box easily. Did you even get the point? No apparently you didn't because you're statements again... have no relevance on whether or not you can take a desktop GPU chip and stick it in a ps4 sized box.
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