Renaming "JRPG's"

When I was growing up some 20+ years ago.... the first "RPG" I saw was Final Fantasy II... while I fell in the love with these style games at a fairly young age.... when I grew up and played games like Baldurs Gate I & II, Morrowwind & KOTOR etc. I realized that the games that I refered to as "RPG's" when I was young, really don't fit the profile of an RPG (Role Playing Game)...... I have never played a "JRPG" where I actually did any sort of Role Playing ie: making decisions that affected the story in some way..... at best you get "Yes or No" questions, where answering the wrong choice leads to nothing, so they Character asks you again and again until you choose "Yes" rather than "No"......

.... This my friends in not ROLE PLAYING..... really the games that are being called "JRPG's" should be called, JSA's or "Japanese Story-driven Adventures"

I know nothing will change.. but it should

PS. I'm not knocking the genre, I still enjoy the odd JSA, once in a while.

I don't think you're getting it..... people get hung up on calling something an RPG without really thinking about what R.P.G. stands for.... you don't role play any more in Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy than you do in a game such as Ninja Gaiden.

A long story, with characters that level up does not a RPG make, is my point.

I don't think you getting it..... people get hung up on calling something an RPG without really thinking about what R.P.G. stands for.... you don't role play any more in Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy than you do in a game such as Ninja Gaiden.

A long story, with characters that level up does not a RPG make, is my point.

Veterngamer

Compare the role you play as Cloud Strife in FF7 to the role you play as Mario in various games.

Cloud Strife = Learn about your past, fight your nemesis, stop a giant meteor from hitting Earth, you lose a very dear freind, escape from prsion, rescure various people, battle president Shinra, save the world, and more

Mario = save the princess

So what you saying about Final Fantasy having no more role-play as other non-RPG games? :roll:

[QUOTE="Veterngamer"]

I don't think you getting it..... people get hung up on calling something an RPG without really thinking about what R.P.G. stands for.... you don't role play any more in Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy than you do in a game such as Ninja Gaiden.

A long story, with characters that level up does not a RPG make, is my point.

PandaBear86

Compare the role you play as Cloud Strife in FF7 to the role you play as Mario in various games.

Cloud Strife = Learn about your past, fight your nemesis, stop a giant meteor from hitting Earth, you lose a very dear freind, escape from prsion, rescure various people, battle president Shinra, save the world, and more

Mario = save the princess

So what you saying about Final Fantasy having no more role-play as other non-RPG games? :roll:

Doing more stuff =/= roleplaying...... like i said earlier... long story + character leveling, is not roleplaying. You can argue that you are playing the role of Cloud and therefore are roleplaying.... but then I could say the same about Ninja Gaiden, I'm playing the role of Ryu, so therefore I'm roleplaying?

.... do you know what role playing is?

Your playing the role of a character, its an RPG, RPG isnt defined by you, technically almost every game is an RPG.

The difference between a "WRPG" and a "JRPG" is one is writing a book and one is reading a book.

I used to pen-and-paper D&D back in the day, and if you want to get picky I wouldn't classify any computer or video game as a true RPG because they're all linear in fashion, even the 'open-ended' ones like Morrowind. A DM (or GM depending on your game) can dynamically alter the world and events around your characters in realistic fashion. Commit a murder? Suffer the consequences. Did the King piss you off? Kill him. In his sleep. Character get killed? Too bad, re-roll.br0kenrabbit

Role Playing Game defines itself, linear or not.

Your playing the role of a character, its an RPG, RPG isnt defined by you, technically almost every game is an RPG.

The difference between a "WRPG" and a "JRPG" is one is writing a book and one is reading a book.

MrGrimFandango

You're not Your.....

.... and I'm not trying to change the definition of RPG... rather I'm trying to make people realize that what they call RPG... in fact is not.

Also, I don't need to be told the differences between different genres of games, thx though.

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]

Your playing the role of a character, its an RPG, RPG isnt defined by you, technically almost every game is an RPG.

The difference between a "WRPG" and a "JRPG" is one is writing a book and one is reading a book.

Veterngamer

You're not Your.....

.... and I'm not trying to change the definition of RPG... rather I'm trying to make people realize that what they call RPG... in fact is not.

Also, I don't need to be told the differences between different genres of games, thx though.

Oh its the grammar police. (, is easier than 3 ... and a )

I can call whatever story driven game in which I play a character, an RPG, thanks for playing.

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"][QUOTE="Veterngamer"]

I don't think you getting it..... people get hung up on calling something an RPG without really thinking about what R.P.G. stands for.... you don't role play any more in Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy than you do in a game such as Ninja Gaiden.

A long story, with characters that level up does not a RPG make, is my point.

Veterngamer

Compare the role you play as Cloud Strife in FF7 to the role you play as Mario in various games.

Cloud Strife = Learn about your past, fight your nemesis, stop a giant meteor from hitting Earth, you lose a very dear freind, escape from prsion, rescure various people, battle president Shinra, save the world, and more

Mario = save the princess

So what you saying about Final Fantasy having no more role-play as other non-RPG games? :roll:

Doing more stuff =/= roleplaying...... like i said earlier... long story + character leveling, is not roleplaying. You can argue that you are playing the role of Cloud and therefore are roleplaying.... but then I could say the same about Ninja Gaiden, I'm playing the role of Ryu, so therefore I'm roleplaying?

.... do you know what role playing is?

Yes, I know what reoleplaying is.

Role-play = you play a role. I have played various Roleplaying games such as NeverWinter Nights (Don't you DARE say that NeverWinter Nights is not roleplaying, because its easily one the best there is). FF7 and NWN have many similarities and differences. I still consider both to be role-playing

You play a role in many games, only in an RPG do you play a BIGGER role in a DEEPER story than the average game. FF7 meets those requirements

[QUOTE="Veterngamer"][QUOTE="PandaBear86"][QUOTE="Veterngamer"]

I don't think you getting it..... people get hung up on calling something an RPG without really thinking about what R.P.G. stands for.... you don't role play any more in Lost Odyssey or Final Fantasy than you do in a game such as Ninja Gaiden.

A long story, with characters that level up does not a RPG make, is my point.

PandaBear86

Compare the role you play as Cloud Strife in FF7 to the role you play as Mario in various games.

Cloud Strife = Learn about your past, fight your nemesis, stop a giant meteor from hitting Earth, you lose a very dear freind, escape from prsion, rescure various people, battle president Shinra, save the world, and more

Mario = save the princess

So what you saying about Final Fantasy having no more role-play as other non-RPG games? :roll:

Doing more stuff =/= roleplaying...... like i said earlier... long story + character leveling, is not roleplaying. You can argue that you are playing the role of Cloud and therefore are roleplaying.... but then I could say the same about Ninja Gaiden, I'm playing the role of Ryu, so therefore I'm roleplaying?

.... do you know what role playing is?

Yes, I know what reoleplaying is.

Role-play = you play a role. I have played various Roleplaying games such as NeverWinter Nights (Don't you DARE say that NeverWinter Nights is not roleplaying, because its easily one the best there is). FF7 and NWN have many similarities and differences. I still consider both to be role-playing

You play a role in many games, only in an RPG do you play a BIGGER role in a DEEPER story than the average game. FF7 meets those requirements

NWN is a perfect example of an actual roleplaying game.... FFVII however.... sry, there is nothing in the game that constitutes as role-playing..... I'll admit I'm wrong though if you can tell me something about FFVII that involves Role Playing... I don't think you can however, since I've played through it more than once and enjoyed it, but looking back, I didn't actually role play.... I just ran the character around fought monsters and read dialogue.... to me thats not role-playing.

NWN is a perfect example of an actual roleplaying game.... FFVII however.... sry, there is nothing in the game that constitutes as role-playing..... I'll admit I'm wrong though if you can tell me something about FFVII that involves Role Playing... I don't think you can however, since I've played through it more than once and enjoyed it, but looking back, I didn't actually role play.... I just ran the character around fought monsters and read dialogue.... to me thats not role-playing.

Veterngamer

After reading your post again, it appears to me that you think that RPGs are defined by whether you can say "yes" or "no" to people, and can make decisions. Well, in Gears of War, you can decide whether you want to take the left route or right route when searching for enemies. In Metal Gear Solid on PS1, you can choose whether you want to submit to Ocelot, which has drastic impact on the storyline. I guess this means that Gears of War and Metal Gear Solid are RPGs then, since RPGs are primarily defined by decisions you can make (according to you) :)

I kind of agree with you. I hate WRPGs, but I like JRPGs that give you a choice or usually have alternative endings, where there are many, it's awesome to go out Final Fantasies for once.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I used to pen-and-paper D&D back in the day, and if you want to get picky I wouldn't classify any computer or video game as a true RPG because they're all linear in fashion, even the 'open-ended' ones like Morrowind. A DM (or GM depending on your game) can dynamically alter the world and events around your characters in realistic fashion. Commit a murder? Suffer the consequences. Did the King piss you off? Kill him. In his sleep. Character get killed? Too bad, re-roll.MrGrimFandango

Role Playing Game defines itself, linear or not.

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I used to pen-and-paper D&D back in the day, and if you want to get picky I wouldn't classify any computer or video game as a true RPG because they're all linear in fashion, even the 'open-ended' ones like Morrowind. A DM (or GM depending on your game) can dynamically alter the world and events around your characters in realistic fashion. Commit a murder? Suffer the consequences. Did the King piss you off? Kill him. In his sleep. Character get killed? Too bad, re-roll.br0kenrabbit

Role Playing Game defines itself, linear or not.

You still strengthen your character's stats/whatever, so you are still playing a role in the development the character, although very limited.

[QUOTE="Veterngamer"]

NWN is a perfect example of an actual roleplaying game.... FFVII however.... sry, there is nothing in the game that constitutes as role-playing..... I'll admit I'm wrong though if you can tell me something about FFVII that involves Role Playing... I don't think you can however, since I've played through it more than once and enjoyed it, but looking back, I didn't actually role play.... I just ran the character around fought monsters and read dialogue.... to me thats not role-playing.

PandaBear86

After reading your post again, it appears to me that you think that RPGs are defined by whether you can say "yes" or "no" to people, and can make decisions. Well, in Gears of War, you can decide whether you want to take the left route or right route when searching for enemies. In Metal Gear Solid on PS1, you can choose whether you want to submit to Ocelot, which has drastic impact on the storyline. I guess this means that Gears of War and Metal Gear Solid are RPGs then, since RPGs are primarily defined by decisions you can make (according to you) :)

He means choices that impact the story of your character and everything around you. How many choices are there like that in MGS?

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I used to pen-and-paper D&D back in the day, and if you want to get picky I wouldn't classify any computer or video game as a true RPG because they're all linear in fashion, even the 'open-ended' ones like Morrowind. A DM (or GM depending on your game) can dynamically alter the world and events around your characters in realistic fashion. Commit a murder? Suffer the consequences. Did the King piss you off? Kill him. In his sleep. Character get killed? Too bad, re-roll.Eponique

Role Playing Game defines itself, linear or not.

You still strengthen your character's stats/whatever, so you are still playing a role in the development the character, although very limited.

first off: interesting topic. second: i think you're wrong. story, and (in-depth) leveling/exp system does mostly make up an RPG. when you play the role of a character, and leve (grow) with him, it's playing a role. that is the primary focus of the game. in FPS games, you shoot to kill. storytakes a back seat to the shooting. (all the objectives usually involve shooting/blowing stuff up). and in action games, usually the game is action driven, meaning slaughter your way through to the next part, get another objective, continue on. fast-paced like. agree or not, JRPG's are RPG's. that is how they are categorised, that is how it should be. majority rules.0rin

Is Dead Rising an RPG?

donno Jugg, never played it. why would it b one? I was under the impression it was a hack and slash/adventure game. but really, as has been said, you could almost classfy all games as RPG's, and some games blur the lines a bit. Really, its all a mater of perception. What one may see as an RPG, another may see as an action game. case in point: SotC. what is it to you?0rin

You gain experience and gain levels which unlock things like more health bars, combat moves, and item spaces.

"SotC. what is it to you?"

Shadow of the Colossus is an action game

I always call them Jarpigs...

Lets take a look at some of the elements of role-playing games:

1) Storyline is very heavy. Yes, any game can have a storyline, but only an RPG will let the storyline take the drivers seat while other game elements take the back seat. If you get rid of COD4's stroryline, you still have an awesome shooting game that people will buy. If you remove FF7's storyline, then you have just watered down the game to an extreme level.

2) Levelling up with your character. Any game can have this, but RPGs are more strict about it. Unless you do some optional side quests first, you may not be strong enough to proceed with the storyline.

3) Interesting character design. Characters have a good, well thought-out history behind them. Cloud Strife is a much more interesting character than Jack Carver from Far Cry.

Well thats just my opinion on it. And Veterangamer, sorry if I was a bit harsh on you, I was just combatting the idea that RPGs are mainly define by being options-based. I know that having options certainly do make an RPG more deep, but I do think that "linear RPG" is not an oxymoron. But thats just me. I do respect your opinion, though :)

When I was growing up some 20+ years ago.... the first "RPG" I saw was Final Fantasy II... while I fell in the love with these style games at a fairly young age.... when I grew up and played games like Baldurs Gate I & II, Morrowwind & KOTOR etc. I realized that the games that I refered to as "RPG's" when I was young, really don't fit the profile of an RPG (Role Playing Game)...... I have never played a "JRPG" where I actually did any sort of Role Playing ie: making decisions that affected the story in some way..... at best you get "Yes or No" questions, where answering the wrong choice leads to nothing, so they Character asks you again and again until you choose "Yes" rather than "No"......

.... This my friends in not ROLE PLAYING..... really the games that are being called "JRPG's" should be called, JSA's or "Japanese Story-driven Adventures"

I know nothing will change.. but it should

PS. I'm not knocking the genre, I still enjoy the odd JSA, once in a while.

Veterngamer

Yup. This is why I hate most JRPGs. It's like an interactive story book filled with teenage dudes who dress like chicks.

i think the name itself "RPG" is down to interpretation. Some games as other people said have RPG elements in it, its very common. I personally feel that RPG is where i play the role of a character in a game which develops as the game continuies, this is very general and yes lots of games fall into that catagory. I personally love playing a role in a story book adventure, its like playing your own anime/film which i enjoy.

This whole article sounds very similar to what peter monolynx ( with his silly surname i can never remember) is aiming at with games like Fable, a more indepth RPG where your actions effect the final result. The problem is this kind of depth is very hard to do and opens a can of worms to just about every human interaction you could potentially have. I personally love the idea and feel at some point there will be many more games which simulate ( RPG) alot better, but for the time being what we are capable on paper (D&D) is not avaiable to play in games, but it will get there sometime.

So..we're supposed to not call them RPGs because you think they are not?

I think Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, etc. fit the definition of an RPG, the real definition. Not yours.

So..we're supposed to not call them RPGs because you think they are not?

I think Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, etc. fit the definition of an RPG, the real definition. Not yours.

PRKiNG45

because you don't know the meaning of "Role Playing", Final Fantasy and pretty much any other "JRPG" in fact is just a story driven adventure title.... you cannot play the role you want, you have just 1 choice of what to do.... and well, when there is only 1 thing to do, then it's really not a choice is it.

When you play NWN, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect or Oblivion, you have choices to make in the game... choices that can affect the outcome of the game, or affect other NPC's in the game.....

... now take FFVII for example..... do you have any say in how any of the situations play themselves out??? Nope... play it once, play it a hundred times... it's gonna be exactly the same...

Heck, Bioshock is more of an RPG than any JRPG i can think of.

Joke thread?Chutebox

a very true thread....you do just take the characters from one place to another. no 'role playing' actually happens.

I get JRPGs for the story, western ones. for just getting lost in fantasy.

[QUOTE="PRKiNG45"]

So..we're supposed to not call them RPGs because you think they are not?

I think Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, etc. fit the definition of an RPG, the real definition. Not yours.

Veterngamer

because you don't know the meaning of "Role Playing", Final Fantasy and pretty much any other "JRPG" in fact is just a story driven adventure title.... you cannot play the role you want, you have just 1 choice of what to do.... and well, when there is only 1 thing to do, then it's really not a choice is it.

When you play NWN, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect or Oblivion, you have choices to make in the game... choices that can affect the outcome of the game, or affect other NPC's in the game.....

... now take FFVII for example..... do you have any say in how any of the situations play themselves out??? Nope... play it once, play it a hundred times... it's gonna be exactly the same...

Heck, Bioshock is more of an RPG than any JRPG i can think of.

take out the bioshock part, but your post stands true, i wont call ME an RPG. Never winter and such is a hell yeh :P

I cant play the role of a thief in FF games ;) They have the option, but i cant just play as a thief.

I must be the protaganist (which in most cases is a well balanced class, but more into weapons.), in FF 9 odly enough was a thief that made me happy :P

if you are strictly into role-playing then there is nothing called Role-playing games that would exist. there are still LIMITATIONS on what you can do or what choices you can make and how it impacts on the world in those games you mentioned. There would be too much variables for the devs to invest which would require more time more money and more manpower than any video game in this gen.

However, i do agree with you but regardless i love both WRPGs and JRPGs equally.

[QUOTE="Veterngamer"][QUOTE="PRKiNG45"]

So..we're supposed to not call them RPGs because you think they are not?

I think Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, etc. fit the definition of an RPG, the real definition. Not yours.

toxicmog

because you don't know the meaning of "Role Playing", Final Fantasy and pretty much any other "JRPG" in fact is just a story driven adventure title.... you cannot play the role you want, you have just 1 choice of what to do.... and well, when there is only 1 thing to do, then it's really not a choice is it.

When you play NWN, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect or Oblivion, you have choices to make in the game... choices that can affect the outcome of the game, or affect other NPC's in the game.....

... now take FFVII for example..... do you have any say in how any of the situations play themselves out??? Nope... play it once, play it a hundred times... it's gonna be exactly the same...

Heck, Bioshock is more of an RPG than any JRPG i can think of.

take out the bioshock part, but your post stands true, i wont call ME an RPG. Never winter and such is a hell yeh :P

I cant play the role of a thief in FF games ;) They have the option, but i cant just play as a thief.

I must be the protaganist (which in most cases is a well balanced class, but more into weapons.), in FF 9 odly enough was a thief that made me happy :P

Ahhh... thank god, someone that gets it..... everyone else is like "Yeah they are RPG's, cuz you can level up ur character, durrrr, and it has a long story...."

Seriously it appears that 99% of RPG fans, don't even know what Role Playing is.

Ya I know Bioshock isn't an RPG... I'm just tryin to make a point.

because of this, those games you mentioned are still linear in a way. there is no true role-playing in a video game and it won't have for very long time i think.

however, if we take it this way strictly:

role-play

game session involving taking on roles: in a computer or other game, a session during which players take on the roles of characters

then yes almost every video games is role-playing except puzzle games and others.

if you are strictly into role-playing then there is nothing called Role-playing games that would exist. there are still LIMITATIONS on what you can do or what choices you can make and how it impacts on the world in those games you mentioned. There would be too much variables for the devs to invest which would require more time more money and more manpower than any video game in this gen.

However, i do agree with you but regardless i love both WRPGs and JRPGs equally.

lordlors

thank you.... and yes I know that no game in my life time will ever give me complete control over my virtual character... but I dream of a day when you can be whatever, go where ever, and do whatever you want in a game......

... we are beginning to see games that are reaching towards that goal, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fable II

Lets take a look at some of the elements of role-playing games:

1) Storyline is very heavy. Yes, any game can have a storyline, but only an RPG will let the storyline take the drivers seat while other game elements take the back seat. If you get rid of COD4's stroryline, you still have an awesome shooting game that people will buy. If you remove FF7's storyline, then you have just watered down the game to an extreme level.

2) Levelling up with your character. Any game can have this, but RPGs are more strict about it. Unless you do some optional side quests first, you may not be strong enough to proceed with the storyline.

3) Interesting character design. Characters have a good, well thought-out history behind them. Cloud Strife is a much more interesting character than Jack Carver from Far Cry.

Well thats just my opinion on it. And Veterangamer, sorry if I was a bit harsh on you, I was just combatting the idea that RPGs are mainly define by being options-based. I know that having options certainly do make an RPG more deep, but I do think that "linear RPG" is not an oxymoron. But thats just me. I do respect your opinion, though :)

PandaBear86

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"]

Lets take a look at some of the elements of role-playing games:

1) Storyline is very heavy. Yes, any game can have a storyline, but only an RPG will let the storyline take the drivers seat while other game elements take the back seat. If you get rid of COD4's stroryline, you still have an awesome shooting game that people will buy. If you remove FF7's storyline, then you have just watered down the game to an extreme level.

2) Levelling up with your character. Any game can have this, but RPGs are more strict about it. Unless you do some optional side quests first, you may not be strong enough to proceed with the storyline.

3) Interesting character design. Characters have a good, well thought-out history behind them. Cloud Strife is a much more interesting character than Jack Carver from Far Cry.

Well thats just my opinion on it. And Veterangamer, sorry if I was a bit harsh on you, I was just combatting the idea that RPGs are mainly define by being options-based. I know that having options certainly do make an RPG more deep, but I do think that "linear RPG" is not an oxymoron. But thats just me. I do respect your opinion, though :)

omarguy01

I played God of War for the action. The story never inspired me at all. Having a weak story does not make an RPG since any game has a story. In an RPG (and ONLY an RPG), does the story take more importance than any other elements of the game. Some RPGs may even sacrifice gameplay elelments to make the story better. God of war does not fit that description.

If RPGs are defined purely by decision-making, then forget about calling Ultima 8 an RPG (Ultima series are considered to be the birth of computer RPGs). The only decision you make in that game is whether Bane or Vardion get attacked by a demon in Sorcerers enclave, and even that has little impact later in the game. Everything else is pre-determined (plot-wise). On the other hand, what about Star Ocean on the PS1, a game where you make several decisions that have a huge impact on the story. You can lose allies permanently by some of the decisons you make.

If people are so insistent on bashing all forms of Japanese RPG's, explain Dokapon Kingdom.

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