"PS4 can render 1080p/60fps with room to spare” -Kojima

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#252 Edited by tormentos (18314 posts) -
@ronvalencia said:

LOL. Did you missed DirectX 11.2's tiled resource demo with 16MB VRAM enabled GPU?

Your not thinking on where the texture's physical representation are being stored.

AMD PRT would still work on a single unified memory, but storing texture's physical representation on the same single unified memory pool is almost pointless i.e. why add the extra complexity? If the programmer wants is make it complex like the X1 on the PS4 then it's their choice.

------------------

As for CELL being a CPU... You DID NOT read IBM's statement on SPU being "DSP like" moron.

You misdirected the information on CELL CPU being able to handle graphics when IBM's source information states "DSP like" for SPUs.

Any CPU can handle graphics processing.

http://nareshmistry101.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/swiftshader-another-3d-game-emulator.html

Unlike PS3's games, Swiftshader renders the game on just the CPU i.e. that's zero GPU 3D/NVIDIA RSX support.

From http://transgaming.com/swiftshader

So once again you run like a coward and hide on your PC,when asked for proof hey Ron where does the textures are before they are partially loaded into the Vram.?

Once again is irrelevant the GPU will see 2 different memorie banks 1 it can access can't it can be access,for all intended purposes is the same.

Hell i think PRT would work even better on PS4,because the actual textures don't have to travel from different memory setups,it would move across the same memory which is partitioned,much like when you move 1 big file from one folder in your computer to another which happen almost instantly,but if you move a big file from one PC to another bye card,pen drive or even over a network it will take more time.

I know they are DSP like you fu**ing idiot where did i say they are not.? Oh yeah it is you again arguing sh** no one is arguing about,you saw they i say Cell and you got a hard on and started posting sh** to downplay it,fact is Cell could pull GPU task which was my argument prove me wrong..

Once again link where AMD say that you need 2 different memory setups of your full of sh** like always,PRT will work just as good if not better than on xbox one,for all intended purposes the PS4 memory is partitioned and the GPU and CPU will see it that way.

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos:

Because:

  1. those are launch games. It takes a while for devs to get a handle on the hardware and API updates. The dev in the article even said as much.
  2. There are 100s of articles saying how the Xb1 is a media hub, and the PS4 is a pure gaming device. I have given you dozens of links saying that, but you just keep on ignoring them. Even fricken Sony said it - they built a gaming machine for gamers.
  3. What he said in that article is what - oh, IDK - every other developer who has also been interviewed?

Again, this is why so many people ignore you. We point out where your argument is flawed, and give reasons and links, but you just ignore the evidence and go back out your fantasy land.

1-Yeah that apply to both consoles the PS4 also just launched,what more proof that they same apply to PS4,that AC4 and Ghost need patch after release to be able to run at 1080p native,they didn't have time to even implement the patch before printing the game.

2-Once again both are muklti media what articles focused more was on MS Tv TV TV attitude,their push was more about media,but that doesn't make the PS4 been a non multi media machine,again the only thing the xbox one has on the PS4 is HDMI in,which serve a redundant purpose than anything else.

Explain to me how the PS4 is just a damn gaming only device,when it plays Blu-ray and DVD movies out of the box.? When it has Hulu,netflix,youtube,crackle, and a full HTML5 browser.

How it is just a gaming machine alone,not it is not stop been on denial,the difference was that the PS4 was more focus on Games which than movies and tv shows,but sony center around games and it showed the PS4 has more games than the xbox one out,it allow free to play games to be played online without paying,and paying to play games like the next skyrim are also don't need PSN+.

Sony chose to focus on games but that is hardly the only thing the PS4 does,it does allot more media things,and that is undeniable.

3-Yeah we know an update is coming to fix some performance issues,it is not magic and will not make the xbox one suddenly be on par or catch up the PS4 like he claim,the xbox one can't catch up the PS4 because there is a power difference that goes beyond ease of use,MS is so desperate to close the gap that they are dropping the 10% reservation in favor of a 2 % reservation,this 8% will do 3 or 4 frames the most it will not magically bring the xbox one to PS4 level.

I am tire of polite developers and liars,those 2 machines have a difference beyond ease of use,and any developers saying the xbox one will catch up is lying,lets see what the excuse will be in 1 year.

This thread is bookmarked...

@blackace said:

Somehow this comment from Rebellion was missed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766058

"Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”

The PS4 is thus more of a gaming machine in its core focus. “Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One.”

Guess I was right about the new DevKits. lol!! Of course SonyGaf closed the thread because it was something positive about the XB1. lmao!!

That was posted already and Tomb Raider already runs at 30 FPS in 1080p which is very good,in fact more solid than most xbox one games,including Ryse,DR3,BF4 and many other who has huge drops in frames while been lower than 1080p.

So yeah i say things a re already improving,but also on PS4 they are and they keep improving and once compute kick in even more.

@tdkmillsy said:

You claim the Xbox One has a week as GPU, but the PS4 isn't much better. The performance power required to get from 900p to 1080p will take up most of the extra resources.

But there's no real point talking to you.

Actually is enough better to run 99% of its games at 1080p with not a single 720p game.

Please do the math for the xbox one and show us how many games are 1080p,how many 900p and how many 720p.

That is funny that is not what Tomb Raider show,it show it has extra performance over the xbox one,enough to double the xbox one version frame wise,while having better textures and effects to,.

#253 Posted by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@Caseytappy said:

Sony should really thank MS .

Unlike the start of the last generation both consoles are already severely underpowered and close to each other on the shit scale but because MS managed to offer even less power for a whopping $ 100,- more they will get all the flack.

You will still see a lot of dumbed down PC ports struggle on the not so mighty PS4 .

The xbox one is even more,it was MS who screwed up,including Kinect and going all wii was MS fault,that is like aying MS should have thank sony for selling the PS3 at $600 on 2006 with blu-ray,if the PS3 would have been DVD it would have cost as much as the xbox 360 and would have launch head to head.

Yeah and no mater what they will struggle even more on xbox one,just like Ghost,BF4,AC4,Tomb Raider and basically every single multiplatform show already.

#254 Posted by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@tormentos: Bookmark it all you want. Take a picture and frame it, I don't care. The case for the Xbox One being a media hub/device has been going on since it's reveal in May - you cows wouldn't STFU about how the PS4 was "for the gamers" because the XB1 was a "media device that also played games". Everyone, including you, complained about the reserved system resources for it's multimedia capabilities.

And now, you turn around and act as though you know nothing about them? Or that (even more laughable) the PS4 can do everything the XB1 can? Wake up and smell what you are shoveling.

I am tired of people like you spewing all sorts of bullshit and acting like you know more than game developers and journalists. Sorry, Tormentos, but you are a Coll (cow/troll).

#255 Edited by ronvalencia (15129 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

LOL. Did you missed DirectX 11.2's tiled resource demo with 16MB VRAM enabled GPU?

Your not thinking on where the texture's physical representation are being stored.

AMD PRT would still work on a single unified memory, but storing texture's physical representation on the same single unified memory pool is almost pointless i.e. why add the extra complexity? If the programmer wants is make it complex like the X1 on the PS4 then it's their choice.

------------------

As for CELL being a CPU... You DID NOT read IBM's statement on SPU being "DSP like" moron.

You misdirected the information on CELL CPU being able to handle graphics when IBM's source information states "DSP like" for SPUs.

Any CPU can handle graphics processing.

http://nareshmistry101.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/swiftshader-another-3d-game-emulator.html

Unlike PS3's games, Swiftshader renders the game on just the CPU i.e. that's zero GPU 3D/NVIDIA RSX support.

From http://transgaming.com/swiftshader

So once again you run like a coward and hide on your PC,when asked for proof hey Ron where does the textures are before they are partially loaded into the Vram.?

Once again is irrelevant the GPU will see 2 different memorie banks 1 it can access can't it can be access,for all intended purposes is the same.

Hell i think PRT would work even better on PS4,because the actual textures don't have to travel from different memory setups,it would move across the same memory which is partitioned,much like when you move 1 big file from one folder in your computer to another which happen almost instantly,but if you move a big file from one PC to another bye card,pen drive or even over a network it will take more time.

I know they are DSP like you fu**ing idiot where did i say they are not.? Oh yeah it is you again arguing sh** no one is arguing about,you saw they i say Cell and you got a hard on and started posting sh** to downplay it,fact is Cell could pull GPU task which was my argument prove me wrong..

Once again link where AMD say that you need 2 different memory setups of your full of sh** like always,PRT will work just as good if not better than on xbox one,for all intended purposes the PS4 memory is partitioned and the GPU and CPU will see it that way.

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos:

Because:

  1. those are launch games. It takes a while for devs to get a handle on the hardware and API updates. The dev in the article even said as much.
  2. There are 100s of articles saying how the Xb1 is a media hub, and the PS4 is a pure gaming device. I have given you dozens of links saying that, but you just keep on ignoring them. Even fricken Sony said it - they built a gaming machine for gamers.
  3. What he said in that article is what - oh, IDK - every other developer who has also been interviewed?

Again, this is why so many people ignore you. We point out where your argument is flawed, and give reasons and links, but you just ignore the evidence and go back out your fantasy land.

1-Yeah that apply to both consoles the PS4 also just launched,what more proof that they same apply to PS4,that AC4 and Ghost need patch after release to be able to run at 1080p native,they didn't have time to even implement the patch before printing the game.

2-Once again both are muklti media what articles focused more was on MS Tv TV TV attitude,their push was more about media,but that doesn't make the PS4 been a non multi media machine,again the only thing the xbox one has on the PS4 is HDMI in,which serve a redundant purpose than anything else.

Explain to me how the PS4 is just a damn gaming only device,when it plays Blu-ray and DVD movies out of the box.? When it has Hulu,netflix,youtube,crackle, and a full HTML5 browser.

How it is just a gaming machine alone,not it is not stop been on denial,the difference was that the PS4 was more focus on Games which than movies and tv shows,but sony center around games and it showed the PS4 has more games than the xbox one out,it allow free to play games to be played online without paying,and paying to play games like the next skyrim are also don't need PSN+.

Sony chose to focus on games but that is hardly the only thing the PS4 does,it does allot more media things,and that is undeniable.

3-Yeah we know an update is coming to fix some performance issues,it is not magic and will not make the xbox one suddenly be on par or catch up the PS4 like he claim,the xbox one can't catch up the PS4 because there is a power difference that goes beyond ease of use,MS is so desperate to close the gap that they are dropping the 10% reservation in favor of a 2 % reservation,this 8% will do 3 or 4 frames the most it will not magically bring the xbox one to PS4 level.

I am tire of polite developers and liars,those 2 machines have a difference beyond ease of use,and any developers saying the xbox one will catch up is lying,lets see what the excuse will be in 1 year.

This thread is bookmarked...

@blackace said:

Somehow this comment from Rebellion was missed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766058

"Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”

The PS4 is thus more of a gaming machine in its core focus. “Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One.”

Guess I was right about the new DevKits. lol!! Of course SonyGaf closed the thread because it was something positive about the XB1. lmao!!

That was posted already and Tomb Raider already runs at 30 FPS in 1080p which is very good,in fact more solid than most xbox one games,including Ryse,DR3,BF4 and many other who has huge drops in frames while been lower than 1080p.

So yeah i say things a re already improving,but also on PS4 they are and they keep improving and once compute kick in even more.

@tdkmillsy said:

You claim the Xbox One has a week as GPU, but the PS4 isn't much better. The performance power required to get from 900p to 1080p will take up most of the extra resources.

But there's no real point talking to you.

Actually is enough better to run 99% of its games at 1080p with not a single 720p game.

Please do the math for the xbox one and show us how many games are 1080p,how many 900p and how many 720p.

That is funny that is not what Tomb Raider show,it show it has extra performance over the xbox one,enough to double the xbox one version frame wise,while having better textures and effects to,.

AMD PRT makes the existing TMUs efficient by pulling the required textures (from a slower data storage source) to be ready for consumption by the TMUs at maximum transfer rate (this is memory bandwidth factor).

Also 7770 has one Rasterizer unit while X1 has two Rasterizer units.

Radeon HD 7770

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority."

The new driver, it unlocks X1's second Rasterizer unit. With the old driver, X1 acts like 7770 i.e. bottlenecking the GPU with a time slice sharing method. LOL.

Radeon HD 7790 has two Rasterizer units. 78x0 also has two Rasterizer units. Only R9-290/R9290X has four Rasterizer units i.e. near copy-and-paste 4X scaled 7770 .

The prototype 7850 with 48 TMUs(from 12 CUs) and 860Mhz are backed by 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth. Prototype 7850 with 48 TMUs wouldn't beat retail 7850 with higher CU/TMU count and same memory bandwidth.

7790/R7-260X (with 14 CU at ~1Ghz) hardware with 153.6 GB/s video memory bandwidth doesn't exist e.g. wait for GDDR6 memory types..

I'm not hiding behind the PC since I don't have plans to buy any game consoles.

#256 Edited by Bubba03 (474 posts) -

PS4 is not a fun console.

#257 Edited by Messiahbolical- (5560 posts) -

The RAM? Really? I thought it had more to do with the GPU being comparable to the budget-line Radeon HD 6770 that I bought for like $85 back in 2011. That card did games on very high settings @ 1366 x 768 or even 900p at solid frame rates, but when running graphically advanced games in 1080p you had to change some of the settings to high or medium and the frame rate would still be significantly lower. Just not a card that's made to max out high end games in full 1080p at high frame rates... it's a beast card for the price I paid for it when I got it though. Definitely loving my new GTX 770 rig a lot more though :) lol But I still use the 6770 rig for my bedroom multimedia computer, and would recommend ATI's budget line of GPUs to anyone who doesn't have much money to spend and wants to get the most bang for their buck. Especially manufactured by Sapphire... great company, still delivers on high quality at a low price.

#258 Posted by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

AMD PRT makes the existing TMUs efficient by pulling the required textures (from a slower data storage source) to be ready for consumption by the TMUs at maximum transfer rate (this is memory bandwidth factor).

Also 7770 has one Rasterizer unit while X1 has two Rasterizer units.

Radeon HD 7770

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority."

The new driver, it unlocks X1's second Rasterizer unit. With the old driver, X1 acts like 7770 i.e. bottlenecking the GPU with a time slice sharing method. LOL.

Radeon HD 7790 has two Rasterizer units. 78x0 also has two Rasterizer units. Only R9-290/R9290X has four Rasterizer units i.e. near copy-and-paste 4X scaled 7770 .

The prototype 7850 with 48 TMUs(from 12 CUs) and 860Mhz are backed by 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth. Prototype 7850 with 48 TMUs wouldn't beat retail 7850 with higher CU/TMU count and same memory bandwidth.

7790/R7-260X (with 14 CU at ~1Ghz) hardware with 153.6 GB/s video memory bandwidth doesn't exist e.g. wait for GDDR6 memory types..

I'm not hiding behind the PC since I don't have plans to buy any game consoles.

Where are the textures stored on the HDD.? On the system memory.? Because it doesn't say in any documents AMD have about PRT,PRT are just a way to not load all the textures at once into the memory where ever the textures store before they are loaded into the memory are irrelevant because they are not been store in the Vram which is the important thing,so once again where are they stored because you say loaded from a slower memory storage,that doesn't saying anything and that could very well be the HDD.

Yes just like the xbox one has a 256bit bus which the 7770 doesn't have either,yet the xbox one perform badly,there i no magic nothing you have claim as secret sauce has work,nothing hell MGSV is say to look allot better on PS4,which is funny because Kujima actually defended the xbox one.

The prototye 7850 has 32 ROP and 153GB/s,the xbox one is 16 RPO,and from 140Gb/s to 150 GB/s on its very best case scenario,so basically it would still have less bandwidth than the prototype,the 7790 has 2 Rasterizers and barely need 100GB's at 1.79TF,so yeah the xbox one at 1.28TF after the 8% increase need it even less,that is 7770 power you don't need 100GB/s for that,i have been telling you this for months all that sh** didn't matter in the end still is a 7790 with 7770 like performance,the 7790 doesn't beat the 7770 because it has 2 Rasterizers dude,it beat the 7770 because it has 4 more CU at the same speed for a total of 1.79TF,if kill 2 CU and lower the speed to so that the flop performance fall to 7770 performance level it would perform basically equal,or even worse sin performance now is 1.18TF because 10% of the GPU still it tied..

#259 Edited by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos: Bookmark it all you want. Take a picture and frame it, I don't care. The case for the Xbox One being a media hub/device has been going on since it's reveal in May - you cows wouldn't STFU about how the PS4 was "for the gamers" because the XB1 was a "media device that also played games". Everyone, including you, complained about the reserved system resources for it's multimedia capabilities.

And now, you turn around and act as though you know nothing about them? Or that (even more laughable) the PS4 can do everything the XB1 can? Wake up and smell what you are shoveling.

I am tired of people like you spewing all sorts of bullshit and acting like you know more than game developers and journalists. Sorry, Tormentos, but you are a Coll (cow/troll).

Yeah the PS4 is also a multi media machine prove me wrong...

The PS4 is for gamers moron and sony focus more on games,but that doesn't take away the fact that the PS4 is a multi media machine as well,sony just didn't act like MS and went all TV TV TV.

Tell me what the PS4 can't do that the xbox one can,because the PS4 can play apps,movies and so one,the only thing it can't do is been a crappy ass cable controller wannabe.

The fact that Digital Foundry has an article comparing which is better multi media machine and has the PS3 as the best says it all..lol

#260 Edited by MK-Professor (3827 posts) -

To be honest I don't think an ultra low end GPU like the HD7770 will perform better in any significant way with INFINITY memory bandwidth.

#261 Edited by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos: Bookmark it all you want. Take a picture and frame it, I don't care. The case for the Xbox One being a media hub/device has been going on since it's reveal in May - you cows wouldn't STFU about how the PS4 was "for the gamers" because the XB1 was a "media device that also played games". Everyone, including you, complained about the reserved system resources for it's multimedia capabilities.

And now, you turn around and act as though you know nothing about them? Or that (even more laughable) the PS4 can do everything the XB1 can? Wake up and smell what you are shoveling.

I am tired of people like you spewing all sorts of bullshit and acting like you know more than game developers and journalists. Sorry, Tormentos, but you are a Coll (cow/troll).

Yeah the PS4 is also a multi media machine prove me wrong...

The PS4 is for gamers moron and sony focus more on games,but that doesn't take away the fact that the PS4 is a multi media machine as well,sony just didn't act like MS and went all TV TV TV.

Tell me what the PS4 can't do that the xbox one can,because the PS4 can play apps,movies and so one,the only thing it can't do is been a crappy ass cable controller wannabe.

The fact that Digital Foundry has an article comparing which is better multi media machine and has the PS3 as the best says it all..lol

Dat jelly. Dude, you cannot have it both ways - MS made the choices it made because it wanted the XB1 to be a media hub, Sony made the choices it did because it wanted to produce the best gaming machine it could. Now, you are going to honestly tell me "The PS4 can be a multimedia hub as well as XB1?" Are you out of your f**king mind?

Seamless switching, TV, Snapping, the list goes on. If you want a multi-media hub and a gaming device, the just get an XB1.

You are a milker to the end, Tormentos. I will give you that. It is so funny to read your posts - you really believe the PS4 beats the XBox One in everything.

#262 Posted by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

Dat jelly. Dude, you cannot have it both ways - MS made the choices it made because it wanted the XB1 to be a media hub, Sony made the choices it did because it wanted to produce the best gaming machine it could. Now, you are going to honestly tell me "The PS4 can be a multimedia hub as well as XB1?" Are you out of your f**king mind?

Seamless switching, TV, Snapping, the list goes on. If you want a multi-media hub and a gaming device, the just get an XB1.

You are a milker to the end, Tormentos. I will give you that. It is so funny to read your posts - you really believe the PS4 beats the XBox One in everything.

Oh please MS wanted to Wii you up...hahaha...

And that is the reason you have a weak console with Kinect that cost more,an HDMI in port is not that expensive and will not hurt the machine in any way,trying to hold tied to MS having HDMI as the sole reason for the xbox one been weaker is a joke..

Kinect is actually the biggest reason,and every one knows it MS was trying to gimmick every one up just like Nintendo did,problem was that it failed.

Sony went with a much power as they could afford,with an easy approach to tech,MS went DDR3,with a lower end GCN with Kinect included,different strategies but saying one isn't a multi media machine because it is more game oriented is a joke,PS consoles has always been multi media,music and games on the PS,movies games and music on the PS2,music,movies,games and apps on PS3,and the same on PS4..

Even the xbox 360 is a multi media machine and was more center around games than the PS3 was,or have you forgot MS is all about games crap on 2005,when sony was hyping Blu-ray.

No seamless switching is not even a feature,and snapping TV and games is about the only thing the xbox one can do that the PS4 can't the list end there..lol

#263 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@WilliamRLBaker said:

@tdkmillsy said:

@I_can_haz said:

Well duh. Only idiot lems believe that ESRAM is enough to render 1080p @ 60fps in modern games. Forza 5 is only able to do it because it uses cardboard crowds, google earth buildings, no AA, prebaked lighting, and is in a small enclosed track. It's a last gen game running at 1080p. This gen will be full of 720p or compromised framerates and effects for Xbone as the few months have shown. Better get used to inferior multiplats this gen lems. Things will only get worse as the games become more complex.

You haven't even read the info have you?

Forza 5 and all the other launch games where made with very poor dev kits, it is not an example of what the Xbox one can do. Things will only get better and games will look very similar. PS4 will be better but not by the range you are so excited about.

I_can_Haz was confirmed to be illiterate quite a few years ago.

This is very true.

Both consoles will improve greatly over time. But as always, games and their individual quality will sell consoles far more than spoecs ever will. PC will always, has always win specs wars. Titanfall will likely be 792p and 60 fps and will sell millions across 3 platforms with those playing not giving a rats as about anything but how great a game it is.

#264 Posted by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@StormyJoe said:

Dat jelly. Dude, you cannot have it both ways - MS made the choices it made because it wanted the XB1 to be a media hub, Sony made the choices it did because it wanted to produce the best gaming machine it could. Now, you are going to honestly tell me "The PS4 can be a multimedia hub as well as XB1?" Are you out of your f**king mind?

Seamless switching, TV, Snapping, the list goes on. If you want a multi-media hub and a gaming device, the just get an XB1.

You are a milker to the end, Tormentos. I will give you that. It is so funny to read your posts - you really believe the PS4 beats the XBox One in everything.

Oh please MS wanted to Wii you up...hahaha...

And that is the reason you have a weak console with Kinect that cost more,an HDMI in port is not that expensive and will not hurt the machine in any way,trying to hold tied to MS having HDMI as the sole reason for the xbox one been weaker is a joke..

Kinect is actually the biggest reason,and every one knows it MS was trying to gimmick every one up just like Nintendo did,problem was that it failed.

Sony went with a much power as they could afford,with an easy approach to tech,MS went DDR3,with a lower end GCN with Kinect included,different strategies but saying one isn't a multi media machine because it is more game oriented is a joke,PS consoles has always been multi media,music and games on the PS,movies games and music on the PS2,music,movies,games and apps on PS3,and the same on PS4..

Even the xbox 360 is a multi media machine and was more center around games than the PS3 was,or have you forgot MS is all about games crap on 2005,when sony was hyping Blu-ray.

No seamless switching is not even a feature,and snapping TV and games is about the only thing the xbox one can do that the PS4 can't the list end there..lol

So sad. Not worth any more of a reply.

#265 Posted by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

So sad. Not worth any more of a reply.

You have nothing more to reply with other than stupidity and denial,saying the PS4 isn't a multi media device because is more game centered is a joke a big one,hell at this moment the PS3 is better multi media machine than the PS4 and xbox one and doesn't have snap or HDMI in that should tell you something...

#266 Posted by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@MK-Professor said:

To be honest I don't think an ultra low end GPU like the HD7770 will perform better in any significant way with INFINITY memory bandwidth.

And i have been saying this to Ronvalencia for months,you can give 300Gb/s to a 7770 it will still be a 7770,is the reason why that GPU doesn't have 7970 bandwidth it just doesn't need it.

In this particular scenario of the xbox one is not even the same because it is only 32 MB of fast ram,not everything fits there or is optimal to be put there.

#267 Posted by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@StormyJoe said:

So sad. Not worth any more of a reply.

You have nothing more to reply with other than stupidity and denial,saying the PS4 isn't a multi media device because is more game centered is a joke a big one,hell at this moment the PS3 is better multi media machine than the PS4 and xbox one and doesn't have snap or HDMI in that should tell you something...

It is a gaming device that has some multimedia functionality. It is not a primary focus of the platform, whereas the XB1 has it as one of it's main focus points. Get over it.

#268 Posted by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@sora16perfect said:

The gap will never close or even get to the point where the ps4 is only slightly beating out the XB1. Like what people have said before, if anything it'll probably get bigger. The fact is that the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and nothing can change that. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. There should be no graphics debate between consoles this gen because there is nothing that can possibly put these two consoles on par.

This is true. The thing is, like the Rebellion dev said the new SDK will assist the One in hitting 1080p more regularly. There will alwyas be a gap, but both systems will constantly improve and get better. It will come down to which one has the better games you want to play and what do you value that the consoles feature. I won't argue the PS4 will achieve better multiplat graphics going forward forever. I will argue that the One has a far better gaming line-up for the next 2 years and that's whats most important to me. But the specs situation will stand. It didn't stop. Having played DR3 720 upscaled and Ryse 900p upscaled, it just doesn't bother me about resolution. FPS, now that's a different story and having a locked and steady fps matters. I just like to much about the One overall, games and features, than I do care about multiplat superior resolution. The games so far have played the same and been the same quality and have featured the same scores thus far. When a game arrives that is so superior to the other one that points are added then I will care far more.

To close there will never be multiplat console parity as the PS4 is simply more powerful. But that doesn't mean as the dev kits improve that the One can't produce a spectacular multiplat. As always, quality exclusive games sells systems. See if any One owners give a damn about anything other than the quality of Titanfall when it releases.

#269 Posted by Gue1 (10187 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos said:

You have nothing more to reply with other than stupidity and denial,saying the PS4 isn't a multi media device because is more game centered is a joke a big one,hell at this moment the PS3 is better multi media machine than the PS4 and xbox one and doesn't have snap or HDMI in that should tell you something...

It is a gaming device that has some multimedia functionality. It is not a primary focus of the platform, whereas the XB1 has it as one of it's main focus points. Get over it.

you been so insistent that I had to ask: are you trolling? Because the only thing the PS4's missing when it comes to multimedia it's an HDMI-in and compact disc support.

#270 Edited by tormentos (18314 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

@sora16perfect said:

The gap will never close or even get to the point where the ps4 is only slightly beating out the XB1. Like what people have said before, if anything it'll probably get bigger. The fact is that the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and nothing can change that. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. There should be no graphics debate between consoles this gen because there is nothing that can possibly put these two consoles on par.

This is true. The thing is, like the Rebellion dev said the new SDK will assist the One in hitting 1080p more regularly. There will alwyas be a gap, but both systems will constantly improve and get better. It will come down to which one has the better games you want to play and what do you value that the consoles feature. I won't argue the PS4 will achieve better multiplat graphics going forward forever. I will argue that the One has a far better gaming line-up for the next 2 years and that's whats most important to me. But the specs situation will stand. It didn't stop. Having played DR3 720 upscaled and Ryse 900p upscaled, it just doesn't bother me about resolution. FPS, now that's a different story and having a locked and steady fps matters. I just like to much about the One overall, games and features, than I do care about multiplat superior resolution. The games so far have played the same and been the same quality and have featured the same scores thus far. When a game arrives that is so superior to the other one that points are added then I will care far more.

To close there will never be multiplat console parity as the PS4 is simply more powerful. But that doesn't mean as the dev kits improve that the One can't produce a spectacular multiplat. As always, quality exclusive games sells systems. See if any One owners give a damn about anything other than the quality of Titanfall when it releases.

The problem is that it also apply to the PS4 drivers improve all the time,this apply to sony as well,so even that MS will be able to hit more 1080p,the gap between the 2 consoles will remain the same,the PS4 will pull more frames with better quality.

You are arguing wrong what does the xbox one has that is better for the next 2 years.? In fact it has Quantum Break and a few other games,Halo 5 just slip to 2015,hell you don't even know 2015 PS4 line up,and there are several exclusives which have yet to be reveal like 13 to be exact.

@Gue1 said:

you been so insistent that I had to ask: are you trolling? Because the only thing the PS4's missing when it comes to multimedia it's an HDMI-in and compact disc support.

He is trolling he loss the argument and he knows it,he is just holding up on denial...lol

#271 Edited by HaloinventedFPS (4731 posts) -

Explains why the PS4 version looks worse than the 2012 demo run on a PC

#272 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@shawn30 said:

@sora16perfect said:

The gap will never close or even get to the point where the ps4 is only slightly beating out the XB1. Like what people have said before, if anything it'll probably get bigger. The fact is that the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and nothing can change that. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. There should be no graphics debate between consoles this gen because there is nothing that can possibly put these two consoles on par.

This is true. The thing is, like the Rebellion dev said the new SDK will assist the One in hitting 1080p more regularly. There will alwyas be a gap, but both systems will constantly improve and get better. It will come down to which one has the better games you want to play and what do you value that the consoles feature. I won't argue the PS4 will achieve better multiplat graphics going forward forever. I will argue that the One has a far better gaming line-up for the next 2 years and that's whats most important to me. But the specs situation will stand. It didn't stop. Having played DR3 720 upscaled and Ryse 900p upscaled, it just doesn't bother me about resolution. FPS, now that's a different story and having a locked and steady fps matters. I just like to much about the One overall, games and features, than I do care about multiplat superior resolution. The games so far have played the same and been the same quality and have featured the same scores thus far. When a game arrives that is so superior to the other one that points are added then I will care far more.

To close there will never be multiplat console parity as the PS4 is simply more powerful. But that doesn't mean as the dev kits improve that the One can't produce a spectacular multiplat. As always, quality exclusive games sells systems. See if any One owners give a damn about anything other than the quality of Titanfall when it releases.

The problem is that it also apply to the PS4 drivers improve all the time,this apply to sony as well,so even that MS will be able to hit more 1080p,the gap between the 2 consoles will remain the same,the PS4 will pull more frames with better quality.

You are arguing wrong what does the xbox one has that is better for the next 2 years.? In fact it has Quantum Break and a few other games,Halo 5 just slip to 2015,hell you don't even know 2015 PS4 line up,and there are several exclusives which have yet to be reveal like 13 to be exact.

Since I know Quantum Break, Titanfall, Sunset Overdrive, Halo 5, Forza Horizon, Killer Instinct Season 1 and 2, D4, and Gears of War 4 are targeted for the next two years its hard to ignore that in favor of a bunch of unannounced PS4 stuff. Especially seeing as how MS has unannounced games as well coming. I'm certain the PS4 will have some amazing games to come. No doubt about that. But I'm buying every single one of those One games I listed because I am interested in all of them. To know a console you own has already announced so many games you actually want is a great thing. I'm not waiting on some announcement of whats to come.

#273 Posted by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

.

“It’s also excellent for graphics, being able to render 1080p at 60fps with room to spare. Since it does it better than other hardware, the image quality of the PS4 is the most beautiful. It’s the closest to the photorealistic quality we are aiming at.” -Kojima

----------------------------------------------------------

So yeah, apparently the Xbone is powerful enough for 1080p/60fps but the DDR3 it's too slow and the esRam too small says Rebellion Games’ Jean-Baptiste Bolcato.

“It was clearly a bit more complicated to extract the maximum power from the Xbox One when you’re trying to do that. I think eSRAM is easy to use. The only problem is…Part of the problem is that it’s just a little bit too small to output 1080p within that size. It’s such a small size within there that we can’t do everything in 1080p with that little buffer of super-fast RAM.

It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.”

Read more at: http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esram-too-small-to-output-games-at-1080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games#SBX8QyXmrlJEyBW1.99

In the same article, Bolcato says that with improved SKUs, the difference will diminish over time

#274 Posted by Heil68 (45125 posts) -

Stunning that the PS4 has that much power.

#275 Edited by Jankarcop (9618 posts) -

So will thief4 be 1080p/60 fps?

#276 Edited by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

@R3FURBISHED said:

@Shewgenja: Maybe so. Halo 5 is running at 60 FPS and most likely targeting 1080p, as well as the launch title Forza 5 hit the mark.

My point is that saying the Xbox One can't achieve that resolution and framerate is stupid, mainly because it has already been done.

Halo 5 will not be 1080p/60fps. 343i was smart enough to only say targeting 60fps just like Respawn did.

#277 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

@Bubba03 said:

PS4 is not a fun console.

More people are having fun with it than Xbone.

#278 Edited by juarbles (801 posts) -

The xbone holding back the industry yet again. And the xboners support making the industry worse, xboners are the lowest of the low.

#279 Posted by NFJSupreme (5379 posts) -

yet no graphically intensive games are at 1080p and 60fps on the PS4. Just more marketing BS that console makers like to say.

#280 Posted by blackace (20865 posts) -

@Gue1: For some reason everyone skips this little tidbit. I thought this question was more important.

Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves?

]“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex.

Everything after the E3 1080P confirmed?

#281 Posted by NFJSupreme (5379 posts) -

@blackace: 1080p isn't an issue for either console. Neither console can hit 1080p and 60fps consistently.

#282 Posted by 560ti (154 posts) -

PS4 is using a CPU that inferior to midrange Phenom series CPU from 2008 and a GPU that was midrange 2 years ago.......... (1080p 60FPS with that hardware is going to require quite a few settings turned down/off).

#283 Edited by blackace (20865 posts) -

@Bubba03 said:

PS4 is not a fun console.

Will we ever be able to play music CD's on it? Is Sony going to patch this when they finally release a patch for all their damaging bugs and errors?

***************************************************************

@NFJSupreme said:

@blackace: 1080p isn't an issue for either console. Neither console can hit 1080p and 60fps consistently.

It's an issue with Cows for some reason. 1080p 60fps will be more of the norm by the end of 2015.

#284 Edited by lglz1337 (3853 posts) -

lemmings let it go your console is weak

#dealwithit

#285 Posted by lostrib (37552 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

lemmings let it go your console is weak

#dealwithit

cows let it go your console is weak

#DEALWITHIT#hashtagsaredumb

#286 Edited by MonsieurX (30413 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

lemmings let it go your console is weak

#dealwithit

both are

#cry

#287 Posted by silversix_ (14781 posts) -

Who cares? If you sit 15 feet from your screen you won't notice the difference. Also, if the game is 30fps on X1 that's a plus, more cinematic+magical>60fps.

#288 Posted by I_can_haz (6551 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

lemmings let it go your console is weak

#dealwithit

Exactly what I was gonna say.

#289 Posted by Chutebox (37351 posts) -

PS4 had more than"some" media functions

#290 Posted by HavocV3 (7946 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@lglz1337 said:

lemmings let it go your console is weak

#dealwithit

both are

#cry

^

#291 Posted by NFJSupreme (5379 posts) -

@blackace: nope 1080p and 60fps is not happening constantly this Gen. Look at last gen. As games got better guess what? Resolution stayed the same or even got lower. Google the resolution of halo over the years. Or kill zone. Resolution doesn't change drastically as a generation goes on. The same goes with fps. 2015 games are going to be pushing these consoles limits. They will not be at 1080p and 60fps. They don't have the power to do that with graphically intensive games. It will never happen.

#292 Posted by highking_kallor (524 posts) -

@StormyJoe:

But but the cloud. SDK kits. Any more rubbish?

@blackace said:

@Gue1: For some reason everyone skips this little tidbit. I thought this question was more important.

Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves?

]“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex.

Everything after the E3 1080P confirmed?

Blackace keep praying old man

#293 Posted by StormyJoe (5488 posts) -

@highking_kallor said:

@StormyJoe:

But but the cloud. SDK kits. Any more rubbish?

@blackace said:

@Gue1: For some reason everyone skips this little tidbit. I thought this question was more important.

Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves?

]“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex.

Everything after the E3 1080P confirmed?

Blackace keep praying old man

First off, I did not mention the cloud. Secondly, I am just repeating what a lead game developer said in an interview. Now, don't you feel silly?

#294 Edited by highking_kallor (524 posts) -

@StormyJoe:

I always feel silly when I read your posts. A bit embarassed too. Oh well I will learn to live with it. Got too search alot of crap to find the nuggets

#295 Posted by Dreams-Visions (26569 posts) -

@560ti said:

PS4 is using a CPU that inferior to midrange Phenom series CPU from 2008 and a GPU that was midrange 2 years ago.......... (1080p 60FPS with that hardware is going to require quite a few settings turned down/off).

AMD's Mantle and BF4 have shown us just how little importance CPUs are overall for gaming. With just Mantle, PC games with decent GPU's and weak CPU's are seeing 30%-40% framerate improvements. I think the CPU's in the One and PS4 are quite sufficient for gaming given the to-the-metal coding. Consoles don't need i5's and i7's, and suggesting so is something of a misunderstanding of modern GPU capabilities and demands of most games.

#296 Posted by edwardecl (2239 posts) -

Don't see how you can make a software patch for weaker hardware...

#297 Posted by GameMediator (69 posts) -

Im so sick of the ignorant Sony fanboys. "PS4 is the best console because it's soooo much more powerful!" is what they say lol. I wonder what they'll be saying when DX 11.2 gets released, when developers get used to the Xbox one hardware, when games start utilizing the power of the cloud... etc, etc, etc.

stupid cows. I don't see the point in purchasing a Ps4 IF you own a Ps3 like I do. And if you care about graphics, FPS, and resolutions then why not invest in a PC?

#298 Posted by NFJSupreme (5379 posts) -

@Dreams-Visions said:

@560ti said:

PS4 is using a CPU that inferior to midrange Phenom series CPU from 2008 and a GPU that was midrange 2 years ago.......... (1080p 60FPS with that hardware is going to require quite a few settings turned down/off).

AMD's Mantle and BF4 have shown us just how little importance CPUs are overall for gaming. With just Mantle, PC games with decent GPU's and weak CPU's are seeing 30%-40% framerate improvements. I think the CPU's in the One and PS4 are quite sufficient for gaming given the to-the-metal coding. Consoles don't need i5's and i7's, and suggesting so is something of a misunderstanding of modern GPU capabilities and demands of most games.

and the GPU for the PS4 can't hit 1080p and 60fps consistently on graphically intensive games so what is the point of your rant?

#299 Edited by clr84651 (5486 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

.

“It’s also excellent for graphics, being able to render 1080p at 60fps with room to spare. Since it does it better than other hardware, the image quality of the PS4 is the most beautiful. It’s the closest to the photorealistic quality we are aiming at.” -Kojima

----------------------------------------------------------

So yeah, apparently the Xbone is powerful enough for 1080p/60fps but the DDR3 it's too slow and the esRam too small says Rebellion Games’ Jean-Baptiste Bolcato.

“It was clearly a bit more complicated to extract the maximum power from the Xbox One when you’re trying to do that. I think eSRAM is easy to use. The only problem is…Part of the problem is that it’s just a little bit too small to output 1080p within that size. It’s such a small size within there that we can’t do everything in 1080p with that little buffer of super-fast RAM.

It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.”

Read more at: http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esram-too-small-to-output-games-at-1080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games#SBX8QyXmrlJEyBW1.99

The underlined states that it's not powerful enough. Powerful enough is RAM+GPU+CPU all working together to produce a game's resolution, FPS, & everything else.

That statement is like saying it's blue, but it's not.

There's very good reasoning why Sony went with GDDR5 RAM, the CPU, & GPU they did. It's what was necessary to maximize gaming for this gen. MS chose to go with less than what was necessary to maxamize games.

#300 Edited by 04dcarraher (19665 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@MK-Professor said:

To be honest I don't think an ultra low end GPU like the HD7770 will perform better in any significant way with INFINITY memory bandwidth.

And i have been saying this to Ronvalencia for months,you can give 300Gb/s to a 7770 it will still be a 7770,is the reason why that GPU doesn't have 7970 bandwidth it just doesn't need it.

In this particular scenario of the xbox one is not even the same because it is only 32 MB of fast ram,not everything fits there or is optimal to be put there.

You ignoring the fact that X1 gpu is not the same as 7770 architecturally. Hence upto a point the X1's gpu can use the bandwidth more efficiently then a 7770 can.