Project Cars just got Xboned

Sure thing kiddo, everyone is saying you are wrong, but you can have your opinion. Just no one will listen to it.

I have no interest in what Tormentos said. I was stating life is created by our elders. Wether they are wise or not.

NO not everyone just lemmings.

You people are really stupid or don't know how to read.

The only bullshit is from you. It's clear you do not know what you are talking about.

ACE's slots it's command stream during GPU's idle state. On fast Intel CPU, GPU idle state are less than AMD CPU hence less gains from ACE units.

From Alien Isolation XBO example, there's about 40 percent GPU idle state relative to PC's 7770 result.

From Alien Isolation PS4 example, there's about 53 percent GPU idle state relative to PC's 7850 result.

ACE units can exploit GPU's idle state. Running multiple ACE units needs to be feed by multiple CPUs cores.

My old 4 TFLOPS 7970 1Ghz completes frame render faster than PS4 regardless of ACE count i.e. single high end Intel CPU feeds 7970 GE four times the rate over the crappy AMD Jaguar CPU.

Yeah everyone was exagerated, just ALMOST every reviewer. I gave you the reviews, the sources, but still you try to ignore it... You really are butthurt about that AAAE launch game from Xbox One...

**** resolution consoles need games no 1080p bullshit project cars looks fantastic for both curent gen systems

So from the Digital Foundry pre release version (which is old and there have been performance improvements since then) The PS4 has higher resolution, better shadows, improved AA and higher FPS than the Xbox One version.

Link

lol posted these in the F1 thread like a derp.

But anyway, "PS4 inferior cpu doing mad work!"

looks like both the ps4 and xb1 are getting boned over.

But i'm sure cows will love to brag about how their shit framerate is better then the other shit framerate

This isn't the final build mind, but lols.

Here's what Andy Garton, Development Director on pCars had to say about this on the members forum (link for those with access)

To be up front - even in the latest version, there are occasional framerate drops in worst case scenarios. The vast majority of the time though it's a smooth 60fps. The article neatly ignores that and focuses hard on those worst case scenarios. The recent camera and render bridge changes (which aren't in the EG build of course) make a significant difference to perceived smoothness, as well as improving control/gameplay when FPS does drop.

Is dependent on the load,if you chose more than 40 cars it drops allot,if you chose less it doesn't.

The game's frame-rate is also a sticking point. Project Cars targets an ambitious 60fps on each platform, but the sheer breadth of options gives players the power to determine whether it hits this mark, or drops closer to 30fps. For example, our first race is on the Dubai Autodrome International circuit, a manic 35-car race with light clouds overhead, camera set to interior cockpit view and no damage physics enabled. Even with this number of AI racers, the game sticks to a 60fps line throughout, and only drops for one stretch on the circuit (to 50fps on Xbox One, and 55fps on PS4).

This is a bigger deal once we push the boat out a bit more; our next race featuring a whopping 44 cars on the Circuit Des 24 Heures du Mans track, with a more taxing chase mode camera and heavy rain in play. The impact is immediate, and PS4 tears constantly with drops to 35fps at the busy starting grid, while Xbox One breaches the high 20s. This improves over the course of the race as cars splinter off into packs, though we never catch a glimpse of the 60fps line.

In can be worse they active damage physics,select thunder storm on weather,the PS4 stick closer to 40 while the xbox one version drops to 24FPS and goes below 30.

Maybe that is the reason they left so many options that you can adjust i am sure that with 30 cars probably both stick to 60FPS solid,30 cars is way more than Forza,NFS or DC have at once,and considering the game has weather and night racing which Forza 5 lacks i say they are going good enough.

By the way this game show 2 undeniable things.

1-The CPU advantage of the xbox one mean total shit,even with 44 AI cars which is more than double most games have,the PS4 still push from 5 to 16 FPS advantage.

2-This game by far show the biggest gap recorded on both machines,not only the xbox one is 900p but it fa;l behind the PS4 for up to 19 FPS,that is huge considering it is doing 45% less pixels.

I would love to read Ronvalencia,Stormyjoe,and hdcarraher on this gap and why..lol

Rumble triggers & XBL > 180P plus, if rez is your thing, play it on PC at 1440P or higher. Damn weaksauce consoles. :o

Besides, if you have an X1 you're sure to skip this and continue to play the current kings FM5 & FH2 and wait for the real deal FM6 later this year so, just sayin. :P

The only bullshit comes from you.

Aces are not about power,they are there to manage system queues and issue command,more queues mean faster completion irrelevant of how much power you have or not.

ACES and commands and like a told both,with Async it determine which line is free so that another job can run,instead of fu**ing stalling or having to wait.

Oh is very clear what Asynch shader are and what they do,look how he say Vulcan,mantle and DX12 does this,funny enough the PS4 was doing it on launch..hahaha'

Is not about power is about efficiency,not stalling the GPU and prioritization.

Drop Alien Isolation you freaking moron,it wasn't CPU intensive and if it was the xbox one 1.75ghz CPU would have help it beat the PS4,since GPU ins't the problem AI is a gimped game because it was done for 5 platforms at the same time period.

I would love to hear the excuse on this one by far the biggest gap recorded between both consoles,with 44 cars on screen the xbox one drops into the 24 FPS the PS4 close to 40 a 16 FPS gap on a game which is CPU intensive because the cheer number of cars been use on screen at once.

The xbox one version is 900p + runs up to 19 FPS slower on average it is from 7 to 13 FPS.

You do know the developer of this game talked about having to spread rendering across several cores on the PS4 CPU to maximize performance right.?

On being asked if there was a challenge in development due to different CPU threads and GPU compute units in the PS4, Tudor stated that, “It’s been challenging splitting the renderer further across threads in an even more fine-grained manner – even splitting already-small tasks into 2-3ms chunks.The single-core speed is quite slow compared to a high-end PC though so splitting across cores is essential.

http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-dev-ps4-single-core-speed-slower-than-high-end-pc-splitting-renderer-across-threads-challenging#WyeI9ejoG1w4tL4D.99

That example from AMD is undeniable is not about power is about efficiency this also apply to the xbox one,sadly the xbox one has less ACES.

If you actually believe the difference is 180p you don't deserve to ever set foot on performance thread.

Yes because people like to play old games for ever...lol

@tormentos:

900P + 180P = 1080P Simple math.

None of dat Common Core math bologna allowed. :P

Oh and like I said, go PC for that rez fix buddy, PS4 is weaksauce.

Also, it's funny how Ryse remains King plus how out of the four MCC games, the only one that isn't full 1080P is the One with the best visuals, funny how that works eh, now, if you don't understand how that works, please stay out of the Performance threads. hahahaha

Yeah that is not simple math that it total stupidity.

The only way that 180p argument can make sense is if the game is 1920x900 yeah the difference is 180.

But the game is not,the game is 1600x900 vs 1920x1080 as you can see is not just 180p.

No dude the point here is that the xbox one is even weakersauce.

Ryse is not the King,not only was beaten by Infamous it was also beaten by the Order which chew and spit it,while been rock solid frame wise and having higher resolution,while actually been a shooter which requires more than a hack and slash game.

Quite easy to answer because Halo 2 is a REMASTER while Halo 3,Ce and 4 are basically ports done on 1080p 60FPS.

The original Halo essentially takes the form of a direct conversion of the Xbox 360 Anniversary Edition, released in 2011.

The second brace of Halo titles in The Master Chief Collection sees a transition in both developer and design ethos. UK-based Ruffian Games takes on coding duties here, and what's immediately apparent is that these are direct conversions - essentially 1080p60 ports of the original games, with little in the way of actual 'remastering'. No moves are made in updating these games for the Xbox One generation over and above pixel-count and refresh rate, but for the purist this is actually a good thing.

Halo 2 is a remake so better assets are use reason why it can't hit 1080p.

Drive Club is the best Rain/Snow windshield wiper simulator on the market

The Order 1886 is the best hallway walker ever made

PS4 PLZ bring the gameplay with the graphics just once? pretty plz? juust once even atari 2600 did come on man

@tormentos:

Eh, again, suffice to say, weaksauce consoles so if performance is so important to you, go full on gaming PC cuz it just looks like straw grasping of the highest order going on & on and making such a big issue about minor differences in these consoles. :P

You clearly are in denial about what he is saying and it is relevant.

ACE units are command processors to direct traffic for compute based workloads coming from the cpu to the gpu. They govern what needs done based on the priority of what is needed done at a specific time. Having more queues does mean faster completion, but only for specific tasks and yes gpu horse power matters as well with the cpu's processing abilities. The thing is with current gaming methods and Async usage the difference between 8 and 2 ACE units means no moderate or massive graphics rendering performance differences.

PS4 usage for Async shaders/compute are few and far between, vast majority of games are still using old methods of using a single core feeding data to the gpu. Because the X1 and Pc are still using Direct X11 standards. This is why Mantle/DX12 and Vulkan are needed. Introducing DX12 on the X1 and PC will force devs to code for Async workloads and will in turn benefit the PS4 as well with multiplatform games. Everyone will be on the same page in standards.

This is why Alien Isolation example is used. It shows that a single cpu core feeding each gpu is not enough with these consoles. The gpu has to wait on the cpu for its frame data to be processed and rendered so the use of Async is about efficiency as well with gpu prioritization giving what the gpu wants when it wants it not waiting on it. This is known as a cpu bottleneck..... cpu cant keep up with gpu.

Going to Async and making use of any amount ACE units does help, For example Tomorrow Children’s on PS4 going from standard usage method to async compute coming from a 33ms frame time to using Async shaved 5ms off of the frame time. That gives you slightly more then 4 fps average.gain in the same frame time. Now here you are over glorifying its greater ACE unit amount on the PS4 but totally ignore the X1's virtual total lack of ACE and Async usage which is what DX12 is going to remedy. You can deny all you want but DX12 will help the X1 perform better.

You on denial butthurt lemming what does it say there.? GPU efficiency and boosting performance,taken from that video,remember when you use to argue against me that the xbox one would perform better than a 7770 because it has a 256 bus.? How that went.? Remember when you told me the difference would not be more than 10 FPS at the same resolution.? How that went.?

Remember when you try to imply on the Tomb Raider thread that the PS4 frames were 34 because the lowest it went for 1 second was 34,when on PC is the average what really matters and when the average was like 50 FPS on PS4.?

You argument against the PS4 has been countless,and the fact that you want to imply that DX12 will bring performance gains on the horrible gimped xbox one GPU yet you refuse to see those gains on PS4 on a stronger GPU from other optimization says it all.

The only way to freaking explain the compute test Ubisoft did which showed like 97% performance boost over the xbox one is that those aces,a 7850 OC is not 97% stronger than a 7770.

You prove my point you cant stand the facts showing that DX12 will improve the X1. Calling people lemmings....its funny, because someone don't agree with you, you label them as a xbox fanboy.

You love to twist things dont you......

Again and again clearly your missing the points over and over again, twisting what is posted. Fact is Im not attacking the PS4 but yourover glorified wrong interpretation of the facts about it. And your downplaying bias interpretation of the facts about DX12 on X1 as well.

Explain why the PS4 GPU has a massive gpgpu lead over the X1? Well lets see, its current API prevents the X1 to use both ACE units correctly, also the fact that the PS4 gpu has a near 40% lead in processing power. If that ubi test was done again with DX12 guaranteed you would see that gpgpu performance of the X1 jump well over the 1k mark. Putting it within its 40% processing gap.

Do I have to explain again that the PS4 will always be stronger and the same gains that will be applied the X1 with DX12 will in-turn benefit the PS4 as well again keeping its lead over the X1.

You can deny all you want, but fact is that X1 is going to get a proper API and tools with DX12, that fixes and adds what should have been there from the beginning. We will still see the sizable gap between the two consoles....

The fact that PS4 API has the ability to use Async when they take the time and effort to do so. X1 currently does not even have the option too. Having 8 ACE units vs 2 for currently used methods for games with async does not give the gains you think they do. PS4 having 8 ACE's with its gpu is pointless with what is current being used. Until they start throwing more and more cpu based workloads and more complex gpu tasks. The differences between 2 and 8 ACE units for gpu workloads are minor.

This thread should be locked. DF updated their article saying they "accidentally" did analysis of a beta, and they had to retract the article...

Why? This thread started out about the resolutions of each console and PC directly from the dev.....nothing to do with DF.

My bad.

No worries....the thread took a left turn anyway lol

This is your argument.

DX12 will improve the xbox one because more than 1 core will talk to the GPU,the GPU inside the xbox one is 1.3 TF.

The PS4 8 ACES will not improve the PS4 because the PS4 lack power..hahahahaa

This ^^ is the problem with your shitty argument i twisted shit i quoted AMD video directly..hahaha

Funny how he say Mantle,DX,and Vulkan will be able to do that,the PS4 has been doing it since day 1,BF4 letter Infamous.

BF4 was 10FPS faster on average over the xbox one version while been 900p the xbox one version was 720p.

So even AMD state more queues faster completion but you can't handle it because you always have to rule against the PS4 and that is what make you look like a desperate lemming,i mean you argue on a damn thread that backfire for 28 pages,Fable the first DX12 game will won shit from DX12 in the xbox one,only on PC the gain was 20%.

But you ignore that,hell even a 20% increase would mean shit 4 frames,when the xbox one has been as behind as 30.

The didn't accidentally did the analysis they did it and the publisher complained because of the lackluster performance it showed in some parts,specially on xbox one which dropped to freaking 24 FPS at 22 in one instance the PS4 never dropped under 30,and was mostly close to 40 when things god bad.

Only you will not believe this wasn't damage control Project Cars went gold that mean no further improvement period if the game get a performance patch will be after launch if it get it.

This is simple DF did the analysis it showed a huge ass gap,it showed bad performance,when they stated 1080p 60FPS and 900p 60FPS,publishers panic grab DF by the neck,DF backtrack and retire the video as simple as that..

http://www.vg247.com/2015/04/17/project-cars-goes-gold-full-track-list-revealed/

This game is gold and that was damage control.

talking numbers again, cos you don't play games. Prove me wrong and post your PSN ID, just like you did mine.

this is your argument: "xbox sucks ps4 rules, no improvements can happen on the X1 because MS sucks and Sony rules."

Fact is that both suck and both consoles are weak sauce.

1. Its a fact you cant deny it..... DX11.x only uses one core to feed gpu. prime examples all over with multiplat games like Dying light to Alien Isolation. There is a cpu bottleneck even with the weak X1 gpu.

2. PS4 having 8 ACE's with its gpu is pointless with how it is currently being used. Until they start throwing more and more cpu based workloads and more complex gpu tasks. The differences between 2 and 8 ACE units for typical gaming designs are minor.

3. Your BF4 example isnt full proof because you can not ignore the PS4's gpu being 40% stronger then X1 to begin with. While it using aysnc shaders helped its not the sole reason why its able to get 10 fps average more and run 30% more pixels per frame. However both console frame rates dip quite often during heavy action. Meaning both are still cpu and gpu limited.

4. lol again never denied that having more ACE units allows better compute control and faster completion of those specific tasks. What you dont understand is that throwing more ACE units does not magically free up execution resources. Meaning that again 2 vs 8 means little with current usage practices. Prime example with 280x (2 ACE) and 290x(8 ACE) with Thief using mantle also using async shaders with FX 8350 was only like 23% difference in framerate. Nearly matching their processing power difference

Point is once you just accept the fact that DX12 will improve the X1 you can continue bashing how weak it is compared to the PS4. Just stop the blind fanboy bashing ignoring the facts trolling along.

How DX12 will impact X1 in short is:

Allow full use of the two ACE units

Better efficiency due to reduced CPU overhead allowing more cpu cycles to go where their needed.

Introduction of cpu multithreading allowing better communication between CPU and GPU and Implementing parallel processing, asynchronous and synchronous.

Better management of ESRAM

Basically DX12 will allow X1 to experience the abilities that the PS4 is able to with it current API when devs take the time and effort. To praise the PS4's ability to use the features and claim it helps but deny these same upcoming features on X1 saying it wont do anything is just plan hypocritical.

NO.

No improvement will happen on xbox one because DX12 whats does is bring console optimization to PC you are just to idiot and stupid to understand it,AMD has stated it,other developer have stated it,and even MS stated what DX12 is,it bring to PC optimization from consoles,you can't bring to xbox one something that is already there.

The fact that Fable will get shit from DX12 on xbox one prove my point without shadow of a doubt,20% on PC nothjing on xbox one,until you show me gains on game you have no argument you hard headed lemming,if you argue like one you are one.

@tormentos:

You are not thinking beyond the marketing presentation. Async compute works best when there's plenty GPU idle states and slower AMD CPU core gives you that situation i.e. both consoles has very slow CPU cores relative to fast Intel CPU.

AMD's parallel async command stream idea attempts to duplicate the results from fast Intel CPU.

Games such as Alien Isolation shows both XBO/PS4's slow AMD CPU core couldn't drive their GPUs at the same level as PCs equipped with comparable GPU and fast Intel CPUs.

PS4's 8 ACE units (64 queues) vs XBO's 2 ACE units (16 queues) gains would be minor e.g. Thief Mantle's R9-280X (2 ACE units, 4 TFLOPS) vs R9-290X (8 ACE units, 5.6 TFLOPS) with AMD FX 8350 and most of the gains was from R9-290X's higher CU resources.

AMD FX 8350 has enough CPU performance to saturate R9-280X's two ACE + GCP (includes it's own CS pipe).

Again, less gains on Intel CPU.

For Mantle

1. AMD didn't specify the console source for the optimisations.

2. EA DICE was specific i.e. Sony's PS4.

Mantle and PlayStation 4 will drive our Future designs & optimizations.

Xbox One wasn't even mentioned.

EA DICE's Johan stated DX12 help XBO.

With DirectX12, AMD is specific with benefit flows i.e. "Benefits of Direct3D12 will extend To Xbox One"

Its confirmed your either an idiot and or a troll.

Everything you stated here is absolute BS.

Everyone's getting pissy about resolution but I'm more upset about the no splitscreen thing. What a BS excuse they have for that.

Link me to a game showing gains on xbox one because of DX12.

Link or your full of shit,because i can link you to one that is DX12 and has no freaking gains on xbox one.

Now the ball is on your court no bullshit or spin a clear link where it show DX12 improved XBO performance on an actual game.

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos:

You are not thinking beyond the marketing presentation. Async compute works best when there's plenty GPU idle states and slower AMD CPU core gives you that situation i.e. both consoles has very slow CPU cores relative to fast Intel CPU.

EA DICE's Johan stated DX12 help XBO.

With DirectX12, AMD is specific with benefit flows i.e. "Benefits of Direct3D12 will extend To Xbox One"

This is fu**ing bullshit and is what i mean 100% what make you look like a butthurt lemming in every corner.

When it is for the PS4 is marketing.

When it is for the xbox one is true.

This ^^^ is why i consider you a blind hypocrite,so when AMD stated more queues = faster completion and actuall make a video stating how Asynch shaders will increase performance is just PR.

But when Brad Wardell claim the xbox one will improve because of using more than 1 core on its crappy ass GPU some how is true.

If the PS4 has not power to benefit from 8 Aces what the **** the xbox one will get from more core talking to the GPU the damn console has a 7770 like GPU no matter how you spin it is a piece of shit,so why don't you do what you just did with the PS4 and for once claim that the xbox one will not get benefits because it doesn't have a strong GPU to get more from.?

You and 04dcarraher are a joke,so the xbox one will improve when it has a poor piss GPU,with 12 CU but the PS4 will not when it has 18 CU..

More efficient and better performance is what AMD stated what you state is meaningless

Hell look at you taking that image out of context as if say anything,it say it will help,now help with what.?

Because one of the biggest help DX 12 bring is using 1 API for both platforms reducing time it take to make a game stated by MS,does it say it help performance wise.? Because i don't see it..

Are people really trying to argue that Forza Horizon 2 is a bad looking game in this thread? Fucking pathetic. It looks amazing. So does Driveclub. End of story.

Nothing but excuses and your twisted mind of bias hatred clouds your mind.

Prove that it wont do anything.... you cant all you have is the people curving and correcting of the hype of the PR claims ie 2x gpu power, resolution increases etc.

The fact is that multiple statements made by developers and other sources say it will help in multiple ways, and that even AMD stated that DX12 will have benefits for X1. Also the fact is that you think DX12 for pc is a copy paste job of the API in the X1 is so off course and wrong. DX11.X is based on DX11.2 and was a stop gap measure until MS developed an API that actually included all modern features and the ability to use all the resources available. the stop gap API aka DX11.x simply does not.

All your "proof" isnt proof its just rants and your bias opinion about the PR and hype behind the gains of DX12 from one man. Fact is all the things Ive posted is about the real facts not hype , not claiming 20% 50% or 2x the performance or it allowing it to be 1080 machine. DX12 will improve the X1 because of the shit the current API lacks. The X1 is a weak ass console with a half assed API

@tormentos Get off Son'y cock for two minutes, take the dualshock out of your ass, and start thinking like a normal, non-hypocritical person. We know the PS4 is a little bit more powerful than the Xbox One but with this console generation that's like coming in first place in the special olympics. If you want to brag about framerate and resolution, why in the hell are you talking about consoles in the first place? The PS4 can't even run BF: Hardline in 1080p, a cross-generational game running on a last-gen engine. Meanwhile PC's are easily playing Battlefield in 4K.

Project Cars Has 110 Courses, 30 Locations at Launch

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/project-cars-has-110-courses-30-locations-at-launc/1100-6426738/

NO link.? I get it you have nothing get back to me when you have something.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

PS4 Preview Gameplay as of April 15, 2015

Thats more then I care to spend on monitors and grx cards. I'll stick with the PS4.

Dude seriously, why do you feel that you need to prove anything to him? Secondly, I'd like to know what makes the PS4 better than the XBO? Is it the marginal difference in power? Is it all the extra indie games? What man? *scratches head*

@tormentos:

@tormentos said:

@04dcarraher said:

Its confirmed your either an idiot and or a troll.

Everything you stated here is absolute BS.

Link me to a game showing gains on xbox one because of DX12.

Link or your full of shit,because i can link you to one that is DX12 and has no freaking gains on xbox one.

Now the ball is on your court no bullshit or spin a clear link where it show DX12 improved XBO performance on an actual game.

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos:

You are not thinking beyond the marketing presentation. Async compute works best when there's plenty GPU idle states and slower AMD CPU core gives you that situation i.e. both consoles has very slow CPU cores relative to fast Intel CPU.

EA DICE's Johan stated DX12 help XBO.

With DirectX12, AMD is specific with benefit flows i.e. "Benefits of Direct3D12 will extend To Xbox One"

This is fu**ing bullshit and is what i mean 100% what make you look like a butthurt lemming in every corner.

When it is for the PS4 is marketing.

When it is for the xbox one is true.

This ^^^ is why i consider you a blind hypocrite,so when AMD stated more queues = faster completion and actuall make a video stating how Asynch shaders will increase performance is just PR.

But when Brad Wardell claim the xbox one will improve because of using more than 1 core on its crappy ass GPU some how is true.

If the PS4 has not power to benefit from 8 Aces what the **** the xbox one will get from more core talking to the GPU the damn console has a 7770 like GPU no matter how you spin it is a piece of shit,so why don't you do what you just did with the PS4 and for once claim that the xbox one will not get benefits because it doesn't have a strong GPU to get more from.?

You and 04dcarraher are a joke,so the xbox one will improve when it has a poor piss GPU,with 12 CU but the PS4 will not when it has 18 CU..

More efficient and better performance is what AMD stated what you state is meaningless

Hell look at you taking that image out of context as if say anything,it say it will help,now help with what.?

Because one of the biggest help DX 12 bring is using 1 API for both platforms reducing time it take to make a game stated by MS,does it say it help performance wise.? Because i don't see it..

Your post is a fcking bullshit. You do not understand why multiple queues reduces frame render times and it's relationship with the CPU.

Project Cars dev already stated PS4 needs at least four CPU cores to correctly feed the 18 CU GPU. What does that tell you? About 3/4 of the time the GPU will be waiting for the CPU core's command stream., hence plenty of idle GPU slots for the multiple command streams.

Again, Async compute works best when there's a GPU idle slot and AMD has shown this with their Async compute presentation.

For games like Alien Isolation, both consoles wasn't even at PC's 7770 level results you stupid cow.

More efficient and better performance is what AMD stated what you state is meaningless

AMD has stated "up to" X percentage for thier Async compute benchmark and they used FX 8350 NOT their usual fast Intel CPU.

AMD's Async compute benchmark's gain is similar to Thief Mantle on FX 8350 CPU.

The only meaningless bullshit is your post.

I chose the 360 last gen because it had the most games in my favorite genre, WRPG' and because of it's diversity of Arcade/indie titles plus the fact i am mainly a multiplat gamer and it was the better machine for multiplats, this gen so far the Ps4 is Marginally edging out the Xbone with games i actually want to play mainly because of it's indie/arcade offerings like Helldivers for example.

And the Xbone has far too many games that rely on an internet connection and gold account to even play them like Titanfall for example.

I don't game online so i like offline campaigns and MS is trying to phase those out with a lot of there games requiring a connection to play them to there fullest.

You should not need an internet connection to play a game in Single player.

It's only Marginally better and like i said before , the Ps4 is a dedicated gaming machine whereas the Xbone is more of an entertainment Hub and call me old school but i want a games machine to be a games machine not all things to many people. Personally, as far as games are concerned they are both too shit for me to drop 400+ quid on them, both chock full of remakes, remasters or multiplats i can play on my 360.

Has nothing to do with power, if it was power i wouldn't still be playing Multiplats on my 360.

Not just that, i can't play Skyrim on either of them and i m far from done with Skyrim.

and everyone and there families, Friends, pets and distant cousins knows that the best Skyrim Experience on Consoles by quite a Margin is the 360 version.

Well annoyed they had to put a 30 day reset into the game just to fix the Ps3 version, 30 day rest should have been an exclusive PS3 feature ,lol