Project Cars Dev: DX12 can boost Xbox One version 30-40%

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27276-A-question-to-the-devs-about-the-frame-rate-issue&p=945141&viewfull=1#post945141

This was said in an Xbox One thread in which he has repeatedly been replying to Xbox One questions..

A forum poster cautioned him saying that the Xbox One Reddit page was already quoting him and he responded saying the 30-40% is not an exaggeration..

Looking forward to more info on DX12 on Xbox One at E3..

jokes on lems, it's only for PC.

The Xbox One 11.x API already features a number of tailored DX12 improvements.

DX12 doesn't 'add' power, it improves efficiency and the working environment. On Xbox One API improvements have been ongoing, on PC not so much, hence PC will see larger improvements.

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Mustard race domination

Phil himself said you ain't getting anything worth talking about and some still believe they'll be gaining amazing (30-40% IS amazing) boost? Hahah wake up, your console has an HD7770, you ain't going anywhere with this trash.

@Gue1: I'm just posting what the dev said.. According to him, DX12 would boost the performance of his game (Project Cars) on Xbox One by 30-40%

@silversix_: So the developer is lying about the gains he'll get from his own game?

DX12 is the first time ever a software update makes your hardware 40% more powerful. MS truly are magicians.

@bobrossperm: I highly doubt anyone thinks a software update is going to magically change your hardware.. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft designed their console with their DX12 in mind.. And with the added tools, this particular developer says that he can get a performance boost of 30-40% above what he was currently able to produce..

Personally, I'm waiting for a proper E3 demonstration of DX12 running on Xbox One before forming any definitive conclusions.. But this devs comments are certainly interesting to say the least

As a side note this game basically maxed out the PS4

Regarding the PS4 version, Bell revealed that they are pushing every core of the PS4 to 99%+ under heavy load along with GPU at 95%. Regardless, they will try and keep optimizing the PS4 version.

http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-ps4-using-99-of-cpu-cores-and-95-gpu-new-tracks-wii-u-version-details-and-more

These weak consoles :P

no, just talking about the pc LOL

Built around it how? The graphics processor is basically a weaker version of the PS4's and the CPU is identicle bar an overclock. I guess PS4 is built for DX12 too?

@chikenfriedrice: Yea, during the conversation he indeed says that they were using all cores on the PS4 yet still mentioned a potential 30-40% boost in performance for Xbox One with DX12..

Phil may just walk out on stage at E3 and drop some major bombs.. Gonna be interesting

@Antwan3K: I am hyped for E3...I really think MS is going to put on a good show.

seems to be the in thing to like pick out a percentage and see if it sounds good lol.

I'm not saying ithe X1 won't have gains from DX12, but the people behind it are saying it will be negligible gains on the X1. If it is 30-40%, I don't call that negligible so I'm going to reserve judgement until it releases. It seems like every year it is something else that will make the system stronger than or equal in power to the PS4, but the hardware in them is the hardware in them and software won't change that.

Before launch and at launch it was the cloud that was going to make it more powerful.

After launch the cloud continued, but fans saw it wasn't helping so some fans (not all) resorted in saying that MS is lying about what's in the X1 and it has stacked chips that couldn't be unlocked until a certain update.

Now it is DX12 which sounds like it is built more to help PC's than the X1 which MS admitted the X1 has most of the features already implemented through a constant rollout of updates.

I guess I'm just not believing it until I see it at this point. Not saying he is wrong because it's his game, but my understanding of it makes it seem unlikely that a 30-40% increase is happening on the X1 from DX12.

This is confirmation that the Xbox Won. No wonder they are tearing it up in the NPD.

@silversix_: So he's talking about the PC version in the Xbox One forum? Even though the conversation was obviously about Xbox One? And even though he had an opportunity to correct himself when it was pointed out that he was being quoted in the Xbox One Reddit forums, he doubled down and said that he is not exaggerating?..

Where exactly are you getting "PC" from this? Hey maybe he made a mistake, anything is possible.. But thus far, all evidence of the conversation says "Xbox One"..

And to address your comment about Phil's statement of "no massive improvements", 30-40% isn't exactly "massive" when compared to what DX12 is potentially going to do for PC.. And on top of that, "30-40%" is just for Project Cars.. Phil couldn't possibly come out and say that Xbox One games in general would get those kinds of gains when this is clearly on a dev by dev basis.. As he said, it just depends on how developers utilize the new tools..

And it especially seems obvious that Microsoft wants a measure of "wow factor" in terms of headlines when it comes to DX12 on Xbox One.. Why make bold claims about performance gains during a random interview when they can do so on arguably the largest stage of gaming at E3?

@iambatman7986: Hey I totally agree.. But look at the PS3.. The hardware was arguably more powerful than the 360 yet for years, 360 games looked better by comparison.. What happened later on in the generation when PS3 multiplats gained parity with the 360 versions and PS3 exclusives started to pull ahead in terms of visuals?.. Was it because Sony added new hardware to the PS3?.. No. it was because the "strange" Cell processor and the split memory was harder to work with and was giving developers fits.. Just like the "strange" ESRAM and the slower memory of the XB1 is harder to work with and giving developers fits.. It wasn't until Sony continually improved their SDKs and developers got a true handle on the PS3 architecture that multiplat games started to reach parity.. If the Xbox One architecture was designed to take advantage of DX12, a similar situation could be in effect..

I don't think the Xbox One will be magically more powerful than the PS4.. Sony makes better hardware, that's nothing new.. But Microsoft makes better software so I fail to see why people are so surprised. In the end, I foresee eventual parity in multiplats and apples-to-oranges differences in exclusives.. Similar to last gen (where Sony had better hardware then too)

Edit: also, "not massive" =/= "negligible".. Who knows what Phil Spencer's definition of "massive" is.. In his book, "massive" could mean a boost of 60-80%. Or it could mean a boost of 100-200%.. just because Phil said not to expect massive changes with DX12 doesn't mean the effects will be in the 1-3% range.. Heck, developers claim to have received over 10% gains from the unlocked Kinect resources yet 30-40% from a full software upgrade is somehow impossible?.. I'm not saying this is the factual case, but clearly the fanboy claims of "there will be little-to-no benefits of DX12 on Xbone" are seemingly a tad exaggerated, no?

I'm more interested in the new version of OpenGL. Unless Microsoft wants to back port DX12 to Windows 7.

Well Windows 10 is a free upgrade to Windows 7.. problem solved..

Cool cool cool, but I'll believe it when I see it

This dev obviously has not checked with Sony Fan here in SW. They will tell him that he has no idea what he is talking about and that his game will see absolutely no gains from DX12.

Moron.................

be happy to receive a 3% boost with your Walmart range gpu.

Another win for XBONE

@Antwan3K said:

@silversix_ said:

@Antwan3K said:

@silversix_: So he's talking about the PC version in the Xbox One forum? Even though the conversation was obviously about Xbox One? And even though he had an opportunity to correct himself when it was pointed out that he was being quoted in the Xbox One Reddit forums, he doubled down and said that he is not exaggerating?..

Where exactly are you getting "PC" from this? Hey maybe he made a mistake, anything is possible.. But thus far, all evidence of the conversation says "Xbox One"..

And to address your comment about Phil's statement of "no massive improvements", 30-40% isn't exactly "massive" when compared to what DX12 is potentially going to do for PC.. And on top of that, "30-40%" is just for Project Cars.. Phil couldn't possibly come out and say that Xbox One games in general would get those kinds of gains when this is clearly on a dev by dev basis.. As he said, it just depends on how developers utilize the new tools..

And it especially seems obvious that Microsoft wants a measure of "wow factor" in terms of headlines when it comes to DX12 on Xbox One.. Why make bold claims about performance gains during a random interview when they can do so on arguably the largest stage of gaming at E3?

be happy to receive a 3% boost with your Walmart range gpu.

Don't worry, everything will be alright, the 3% gain is enormous.

@chikenfriedrice:

That is the 6 cores the ps4 can use now the xbox one is using 7 cores.

Taken from the Forum post:

Originally Posted by dante

"So I guess you cant say if you used the GNM or GNMX API, then? I was just asking because GNM is supposed to be better performance wise and they are not a secret. Can you at least say whether the PS4 is using 6 cores or more? Can you tell us if Sony's SDK has been improved since launch? If you cant talk about any of these things I'll understand but any feedback would be greatly appreciated."

Posted by Ian Bell

"We're using every core

This has already been answered."

@Antwan3K: I'm starting to see more indications that this "free" upgrade to Windows 10 is going to carry a subscription fee. I, for one, am even less interested in paying a subscription for an OS than I have been for an office suite.

DX12 allows xbone to far surpass ps4

lol, doubtful

HD7770 is not the only GCN with about 1.3 TFLOPS i.e. FirePro W5000 and this GCN has matching dual tessellation units and 12 CU count.

@bobrossperm said: DX12 is the first time ever a software update makes your hardware 40% more powerful. MS truly are magicians.

There is no subscription fee for the upgrade.. That has been made very clear.

If you have anything from Windows 7 and up, Windows 10 will be free for everyone but Enterprise customers.

I highly doubt it as well. Ian Bell did say that the PS4 is using all cores maxed out but in the same conversation said that DX12 would bring a 30-40% boost to the Xbox One.. Take those statements however you see fit.. I'm just really looking forward to what kind of stage demo Microsoft is going to showcase at E3 in terms of DX12.. They really need to come out with some definitive benchmarks by the end of that conference..

And thats just a conversion benefit from DX11 to DX12. He seems impressed.

bu....bu....butttt its using 7 cores! and X1 is already using DX12! Its not going to do anything!

Thread's context was with frame rate not with resolution.

On the PC(with AMD GPU), there's about 40 percent improvement with Windows 10's DX11 against Windows 8's DX11.

DX12 has yet to be applied.

Unlikely e.g. run DirectX12 or Mantle benchmarks on FirePro W5000 (1.26 TFLOPS, 12 CU, dual tessellation units, 153 GB/s VRAM) vs R7-265 (1.89 TFLOPS, 16 CU, dual tessellation units, 179 GB/s VRAM).

consoles have to ketchup

@Antwan3K: So free as in beer? Seems odd they would give away their no money maker unless the vast majority only upgrade their OS with the purchase of a new system. Great if true and no catch.

It's only free if you upgrade within the first year

For DX12 application compatibility, laptops with Intel Ivybridge HD 2500/4000 IGP (or older GPUs) will have to buy a new laptop, hence new Windows 10 OEM licence.

Lems are just embarrassing themselves at this point. Well, they've been embarrassing themselves.

This, THE BOLD, was never said lol.

The only reference he made was about "his game" "Direct X 12" and a "30% - 40%" increase.

Users were actually trying to get him to confirm that this was for xbox one but the Dev got ghost and never answered it because he knew the game was going to be 900p for xbox one.

Originally Posted byRoadlayer

The Xbox One 11.x API already features a number of tailored DX12 improvements. Much of this information was revealed in the recent SDK leak, it's been put down as the reason many games jumped from 720p to 900p.

DX12 doesn't 'add' power, it improves efficiency and the working environment.On Xbox One API improvements have been ongoing, on PC not so much, hence PC will see larger improvements.

John Hable, formerly of Naughty Dog, eloquently explains the situation in the article linked below. Many PC titles are CPU limited, so will see the 30%-40% gains referenced earlier. On the console side of the equation the GPU is more often the limiting factor, so gains with be negligible beyond standard efficiency gains.

Unfortunately some on social media and the more dubious sites aren't interested in the nitty, gritty details. I've already seen people simplistically stating "we'll get 40% from DX12, 20% from improved ESRAM performance etc", and before you know it they'd have you believe these consoles are as powerful as top of the line PC's!

http://gamingbolt.com/ex-naughty-dog...compared-to-pc

I'd be interested to hear from Ian what he thinks of the potential of GPGPU compute. I've seen a number of presentations where this is proclaimed to be the next big leap forward for console development. Is it something we could see utilised in Pcars 2, or will these be reserved for 1st party titles, without the complications of multi-platform development.

LINK:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27276-A-question-to-the-devs-about-the-frame-rate-issue/page9

Roadlayer

The 'number' is related to specific areas, bottlenecks exist in other areas, ie the GPU's ability to shade more triangles.

Basically PC's are more CPU bottlenecked, so will benefit greatly from DX12, consoles are more limited on the GPU side.

Two articles explain it here.

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/games/X...Dev-66567.html

http://gamingbolt.com/ex-naughty-dog...compared-to-pc

LINK:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27276-A-question-to-the-devs-about-the-frame-rate-issue/page10

@playharderfool: He was talking about the Xbox One version, sorry to burst your bubble.

ITT: People trying to contradict what a game developer says a new API will do for his game in terms of performance improvements.

Idiots as usual...

how much cash is microsoft paying these random dev on each game to promote dx 12 windows 10

its always one dev every game comes out saying oh yah dx12 is hte future or some crap

STOP PAYING THE GAME MAKERS CASH to say good things start making ur own games on it

Did you see any of these deals first hand or....