Pirates annihilate this PC exclusive said developer

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

clyde46

I said may... I've met plenty of hipster snobs but I've also met my fair share of "Bro" gamers, if it isnt COD or HALO then it doesnt exist sort of mindset.

It happens.freedomfreak

Not if you make your game for consoles, especially if you make it exclusive

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Bzzt. Did you not meet any music snobs in high school and college? Plenty of 16 to 21 year olds find music that's not mass marketed. Why would games be any different?lowe0

I said may... I've met plenty of hipster snobs but I've also met my fair share of "Bro" gamers, if it isnt COD or HALO then it doesnt exist sort of mindset.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]It happens.loosingENDS

Not if you make your game for consoles, especially if you make it exclusive

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

I said may... I've met plenty of hipster snobs but I've also met my fair share of "Bro" gamers, if it isnt COD or HALO then it doesnt exist sort of mindset.

clyde46

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]It happens.loosingENDS

Not if you make your game for consoles, especially if you make it exclusive

Piracy doesn't happen to exclusive console games?

Gears of War 2 pirated.

Gears of War 3 2011's most torrented 360 game.

Halo 3 pirate copy hits internet before retail release.

Halo 4 pirated before release.

The link does explain that, actually. The loss is whatever work would have produced had the developers received the lost revenue. In lesser cases, it simply reduces incentive; in more severe cases, it starves the developer of resources that could be used to produce the next game.lowe0

It doesn't explain sh!t. Your "explanation" holds only if the developer would get paid less than he should. It's pure conjecture, and thus, is completely meaningless.

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]It happens.clyde46

Not if you make your game for consoles, especially if you make it exclusive

Maybe, but the actual sales are huge

Skyrim did 6+ million on xbox 360 alone, i dont see piracy hurting console sales at all

If it was only on PC, Bethesda would have closed doors years back

If piracy is 30% on consoles, it is like 99,9% on PC

[QUOTE="lowe0"]The link does explain that, actually. The loss is whatever work would have produced had the developers received the lost revenue. In lesser cases, it simply reduces incentive; in more severe cases, it starves the developer of resources that could be used to produce the next game.N30F3N1X

It doesn't explain sh!t. Your "explanation" holds only if the developer would get paid less than he should. It's pure conjecture, and thus, is completely meaningless.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Not if you make your game for consoles, especially if you make it exclusive

loosingENDS

Maybe, but the actual sales are huge

Skyrim did 6+ million on xbox 360 alone, i dont see piracy hurting console sales at all

If it was only on PC, Bethesda would have closed doors years back

Maybe, but the actual sales are huge

Skyrim did 6+ million on xbox 360 alone, i dont see piracy hurting console sales at all

If it was only on PC, Bethesda would have closed doors years back

If piracy is 30% on consoles, it is like 99,9% on PC

loosingENDS

You're assuming for the majority of this post. You don't know if Bethesda would have closed, and you don't know the piracy rates.

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.lowe0

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

Calm down there bud, no one said that console gamers cannot make decisioins independently. The games that sell the most are the ones that are advertised the most. That's true for PC and Console, but more so for console than PC.

It's a well established economic principle. Feel free to remain ignorant towards it if you like.lowe0

It's a well estabilished pricinple that in no way applies to what we're speaking about ;) You're the one who's being ignorant here.

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.lowe0

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

You're arguing exceptions to attempt to invalidate a generalization about a majority. While I think the whole argument you're chasing is rather silly, that's a poor way to debate.

Facts are:

Advertising dollars are slanted heavily in favor of the console platforms, in good part because of the $$$ the platforms put into advertising games themselves.

There are fewer titles released on consoles than on PC, further diluting what advertising $$$ PC games have compared to the consoles.

Despite these facts, PC gaming revenue continues to increase, while console gaming has been shrinking for four years now. Feel free to draw conclusions of your own, but it's completely reasonable to assume the AVERAGE PC gamer is more likely to be getting news of many PC titles from forums, blogs, and word of mouth, than a console gamer, if only because the advertising for many PC games simply does not exist. To completely deny that as at least plausible is to argue the console platform owners and major publishers are morons throwing millions of dollars into advertising absolutely NO ONE watches/sees.

We console gamers buy our games. Nuff' said. Hell, I already owned Witcher 2 on pc and bought it again on Xbox 360 (great version btw...preferred it on 360) just to suppot CD Project.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

santoron

You're arguing exceptions to attempt to invalidate a generalization about a majority. While I think the whole argument you're chasing is rather silly, that's a poor way to debate.

Facts are:

Advertising dollars are slanted heavily in favor of the console platforms, in good part because of the $$$ the platforms put into advertising games themselves.

There are fewer titles released on consoles than on PC, further diluting what advertising $$$ PC games have compared to the consoles.

Despite these facts, PC gaming revenue continues to increase, while console gaming has been shrinking for four years now. Feel free to draw conclusions of your own, but it's completely reasonable to assume the AVERAGE PC gamer is more likely to be getting news of many PC titles from forums, blogs, and word of mouth, than a console gamer, if only because the advertising for many PC games simply does not exist. To completely deny that as at least plausible is to argue the console platform owners and major publishers are morons throwing millions of dollars into advertising absolutely NO ONE watches/sees.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="menes777"]

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

menes777

Calm down there bud, no one said that console gamers cannot make decisioins independently. The games that sell the most are the ones that are advertised the most. That's true for PC and Console, but more so for console than PC.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

santoron

You're arguing exceptions to attempt to invalidate a generalization about a majority. While I think the whole argument you're chasing is rather silly, that's a poor way to debate.

Facts are:

Advertising dollars are slanted heavily in favor of the console platforms, in good part because of the $$$ the platforms put into advertising games themselves.

There are fewer titles released on consoles than on PC, further diluting what advertising $$$ PC games have compared to the consoles.

Despite these facts, PC gaming revenue continues to increase, while console gaming has been shrinking for four years now. Feel free to draw conclusions of your own, but it's completely reasonable to assume the AVERAGE PC gamer is more likely to be getting news of many PC titles from forums, blogs, and word of mouth, than a console gamer, if only because the advertising for many PC games simply does not exist. To completely deny that as at least plausible is to argue the console platform owners and major publishers are morons throwing millions of dollars into advertising absolutely NO ONE watches/sees.

That doesn't consoles are bad or are dying, it just shows you how different the PC audience is to the console audience -- and frankly most gamers have at least one console and a gaming playing PC. Go look at the ESA's facts on it and you'll see that people who identify themselves as gamers generally own both. Where they spend their money is a different factor (with tons of non-charted variables such as PC power, preference, etc.)

In terms of advertising, think of consoles as a fish net. You make as many games for the masses as you can and market to the masses, dragging the net through the ocean to get as many consumers as you can. PCs don't have to do that, but AAA games that sell on consoles typically are also the games that are driving PC sales.

[QUOTE="lowe0"]It's a well established economic principle. Feel free to remain ignorant towards it if you like.N30F3N1X

It's a well estabilished pricinple that in no way applies to what we're speaking about ;) You're the one who's being ignorant here.

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.lowe0

Calm down there bud, no one said that console gamers cannot make decisioins independently. The games that sell the most are the ones that are advertised the most. That's true for PC and Console, but more so for console than PC.

But you made the leap and assumed that's what he meant. You chose to take it as an insult. Do you have any proof of the opposite, that console gamers do not make their buying decisions (whether directly or buy for someone else such as a child) based on marketing? Maybe you should establish that your case is solid before accusing others that their's isn't.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="menes777"]

Calm down there bud, no one said that console gamers cannot make decisioins independently. The games that sell the most are the ones that are advertised the most. That's true for PC and Console, but more so for console than PC.

menes777

But you made the leap and assumed that's what he meant. You chose to take it as an insult. Do you have any proof of the opposite, that console gamers do not make their buying decisions (whether directly or buy for someone else such as a child) based on marketing? Maybe you should establish that your case is solid before accusing others that their's isn't.

PC games also release to niche markets that consoles simply don't value, such as strategy gamers. You will never see Crusader Kings 2 on Xbox 360/PS3, but it's also not going to be getting a huge marketing budget because PC companies know their audience and target their money to them. Yet Crusader Kings 2 did well fo itself, well enough to warrant DLC and a great modding community.

That doesn't consoles are bad or are dying, it just shows you how different the PC audience is to the console audience -- and frankly most gamers have at least one console and a gaming playing PC. Go look at the ESA's facts on it and you'll see that people who identify themselves as gamers generally own both. Where they spend their money is a different factor (with tons of non-charted variables such as PC power, preference, etc.)

In terms of advertising, think of consoles as a fish net. You make as many games for the masses as you can and market to the masses, dragging the net through the ocean to get as many consumers as you can. PCs don't have to do that, DontGetBigIdeas

I have no real disagreements with any of that...

but AAA games that sell on consoles typically are also the games that are driving PC sales.

...except for that, perhaps. I'd argue it's precisely those "niche" markets that are underserved/ignored on consoles that are the difference between a shrinking console market and a growing PC gaming industry, unless you're arguing that most PC/console multiplats sell better on PC...

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] That we only make our decision bases on marketing is exactly what he said.lowe0

But you made the leap and assumed that's what he meant. You chose to take it as an insult. Do you have any proof of the opposite, that console gamers do not make their buying decisions (whether directly or buy for someone else such as a child) based on marketing? Maybe you should establish that your case is solid before accusing others that their's isn't.

Actually that proves my point. The success of MC has come from PC users spreading things by word of mouth. It didn't start on Xbox and its popularity didn't come from console players. It came from a vast PC community that spread the word around with virtually zero advertisting budget. Whole PC communities are built around it and when it was added to the Xbox that trickled into the players who were PC and have an Xbox. Also when the Xbox version had come out the PC version was extremely well known. So it wasn't like some upstart that just happened to be popular on Xbox live. Do you have any evidence to the contrary such as CoD selling what it has based on anything but marketting?

We console gamers buy our games. Nuff' said. Hell, I already owned Witcher 2 on pc and bought it again on Xbox 360 (great version btw...preferred it on 360) just to suppot CD Project.

Puckhog04

I guess you preferred it for the achievements?

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="menes777"]

But you made the leap and assumed that's what he meant. You chose to take it as an insult. Do you have any proof of the opposite, that console gamers do not make their buying decisions (whether directly or buy for someone else such as a child) based on marketing? Maybe you should establish that your case is solid before accusing others that their's isn't.

menes777

Actually that proves my point. The success of MC has come from PC users spreading things by word of mouth. It didn't start on Xbox and its popularity didn't come from console players. It came from a vast PC community that spread the word around with virtually zero advertisting budget. Whole PC communities are built around it and when it was added to the Xbox that trickled into the players who were PC and have an Xbox. Also when the Xbox version had come out the PC version was extremely well known. So it wasn't like some upstart that just happened to be popular on Xbox live. Do you have any evidence to the contrary such as CoD selling what it has based on anything but marketting?

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Piracy is rampant on consoles champ.clyde46

Maybe, but the actual sales are huge

Skyrim did 6+ million on xbox 360 alone, i dont see piracy hurting console sales at all

If it was only on PC, Bethesda would have closed doors years back

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Already posted one - Minecraft. Millions sold and not a single celebrity commercial on Sunday football.lowe0

Actually that proves my point. The success of MC has come from PC users spreading things by word of mouth. It didn't start on Xbox and its popularity didn't come from console players. It came from a vast PC community that spread the word around with virtually zero advertisting budget. Whole PC communities are built around it and when it was added to the Xbox that trickled into the players who were PC and have an Xbox. Also when the Xbox version had come out the PC version was extremely well known. So it wasn't like some upstart that just happened to be popular on Xbox live. Do you have any evidence to the contrary such as CoD selling what it has based on anything but marketting?

It wasn't word of mouth from console players though. It was word of mouth from the PC gamers. That's a big difference. Also MC is an exception in more ways than one even on the PC.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="menes777"]

Actually that proves my point. The success of MC has come from PC users spreading things by word of mouth. It didn't start on Xbox and its popularity didn't come from console players. It came from a vast PC community that spread the word around with virtually zero advertisting budget. Whole PC communities are built around it and when it was added to the Xbox that trickled into the players who were PC and have an Xbox. Also when the Xbox version had come out the PC version was extremely well known. So it wasn't like some upstart that just happened to be popular on Xbox live. Do you have any evidence to the contrary such as CoD selling what it has based on anything but marketting?

menes777

It wasn't word of mouth from console players though. It was word of mouth from the PC gamers. That's a big difference. Also MC is an exception in more ways than one even on the PC.

While we're at it: what's driving sales of Black Ops 2 on PC?

...except for that, perhaps. I'd argue it's precisely those "niche" markets that are underserved/ignored on consoles that are the difference between a shrinking console market and a growing PC gaming industry, unless you're arguing that most PC/console multiplats sell better on PC...

To be fair, the way NPD releases data and the fact we have no breakdown of sales numbers per NPD (link), just one big number, doesn't give us any concrete data. I would guess that 50% of a game such as Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 sold on console and the other on PC, but it would not be unheard of for the console version to sell better than the PC version.

But we just don't know. It's speculation and pointless at that.

Also, the shrinking console market isn't because of niche genres on PC, it's been cited because this console generation is gone on so long and consumers are moving to new tech such as tablets. The market will grow next Christmas with all three major players with new consoles, games and IPs. This happens at the end of every console generation, but I think we will definately see the handheld market get phased out by tablets.

...except for that, perhaps. I'd argue it's precisely those "niche" markets that are underserved/ignored on consoles that are the difference between a shrinking console market and a growing PC gaming industry, unless you're arguing that most PC/console multiplats sell better on PC...DontGetBigIdeas

To be fair, the way NPD releases data and the fact we have no breakdown of sales numbers per NPD (link), just one big number, doesn't give us any concrete data. I would guess that 50% of a game such as Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 sold on console and the other on PC, but it would not be unheard of for the console version to sell better than the PC version.

But we just don't know. It's speculation and pointless at that.

Also, the shrinking console market isn't because of niche genres on PC, it's been cited because this console generation is gone on so long and consumers are moving to new tech such as tablets. The market will grow next Christmas with all three major players with new consoles, games and IPs. This happens at the end of every console generation, but I think we will definately see the handheld market get phased out by tablets.

I would hazard a guess that combined console CoD sales obliterated PC sales, but you're right, I don't have a link I'd trust (lolvgchartz) to prove such, and I don't wish to even try to look, as we could argue this all day.:P

We've heard this argument about the long gen being to blame a lot recently, but it doesn't hold much water. Sales have declined for over four straight years now, which puts the initial decline less than three years into the 360's lifetime, and not even two years after the PS3 and Wii launched. That's doesn't look like extended cycles are to blame. I do agree with you though that mobile platforms are definitely a factor. A big one.

Im played flash & freeware games with more content than Hotline Miami

Im played flash & freeware games with more content than Hotline Miami

HaloinventedFPS

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]

...except for that, perhaps. I'd argue it's precisely those "niche" markets that are underserved/ignored on consoles that are the difference between a shrinking console market and a growing PC gaming industry, unless you're arguing that most PC/console multiplats sell better on PC...santoron

To be fair, the way NPD releases data and the fact we have no breakdown of sales numbers per NPD (link), just one big number, doesn't give us any concrete data. I would guess that 50% of a game such as Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 sold on console and the other on PC, but it would not be unheard of for the console version to sell better than the PC version.

But we just don't know. It's speculation and pointless at that.

Also, the shrinking console market isn't because of niche genres on PC, it's been cited because this console generation is gone on so long and consumers are moving to new tech such as tablets. The market will grow next Christmas with all three major players with new consoles, games and IPs. This happens at the end of every console generation, but I think we will definately see the handheld market get phased out by tablets.

I would hazard a guess that combined console CoD sales obliterated PC sales, but you're right, I don't have a link I'd trust (lolvgchartz) to prove such, and I don't wish to even try to look, as we could argue this all day.:P

We've heard this argument about the long gen being to blame a lot recently, but it doesn't hold much water. Sales have declined for over four straight years now, which puts the initial decline less than three years into the 360's lifetime, and not even two years after the PS3 and Wii launched. That's doesn't look like extended cycles are to blame. I do agree with you though that mobile platforms are definitely a factor. A big one.

If piracy is 30% on consoles, it is like 99,9% on PC

loosingENDS

...Aaaaaand loosingENDS is back to trolling. That was faster than I thought

[QUOTE="lowe0"]It's a well established economic principle. Feel free to remain ignorant towards it if you like.N30F3N1X

It's a well estabilished pricinple that in no way applies to what we're speaking about ;) You're the one who's being ignorant here.

He's already admitted to saying he has no clue to how much billboard, public transportation posters, and TV ads cost yet he believes they're not mass marketing just cause some games have bigger mass marketing budgets via Halo 4 Mountain dew, if that were true then we'd see a lot more PC games on billboards and TV.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]It's a well established economic principle. Feel free to remain ignorant towards it if you like.NoodleFighter

It's a well estabilished pricinple that in no way applies to what we're speaking about ;) You're the one who's being ignorant here.

He's already admitted to saying he has no clue to how much billboard, public transportation posters, and TV ads cost yet he believes they're not mass marketing just cause some games have bigger mass marketing budgets via Halo 4 Mountain dew, if that were true then we'd see a lot more PC games on billboards and TV.

Besides, those games that I listed, plus Call of Duty, are all multiplatform. Care to explain how one platform's users are unaffected by marketing and are buying on merit, yet the other two aren't?

What, like you already do? Diablo 3? Mists of Pandaria? Besides, those games that I listed, plus Call of Dutylowe0

[QUOTE="lowe0"]What, like you already do? Diablo 3? Mists of Pandaria? Besides, those games that I listed, plus Call of DutyJebus213

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

It's a well estabilished pricinple that in no way applies to what we're speaking about ;) You're the one who's being ignorant here.

lowe0

He's already admitted to saying he has no clue to how much billboard, public transportation posters, and TV ads cost yet he believes they're not mass marketing just cause some games have bigger mass marketing budgets via Halo 4 Mountain dew, if that were true then we'd see a lot more PC games on billboards and TV.

Besides, those games that I listed, plus Call of Duty, are all multiplatform. Care to explain how one platform's users are unaffected by marketing and are buying on merit, yet the other two aren't?

Blizzard games? Really, thats what all you can basically come up with for PC games with mass marketing

Total War series didn't get any massive marketing campaign till Shogun 2 started coming and it was basically only the History channel the TV ad was on,

S.T.A.L.K.E.R was a multi million seller and it didn't get a single TV ad or billboard/poster

Crysis was a multi million seller and didn't get any mass marketing till the game went multiplat

The Witcher series was a multi million seller and didn't get any advertising till The Witcher 2 came to Xbox 360

Planetside 2 was one of the biggest games at every gaming expo and still has yet to recieve an ad outside the internet

MechWarrior online has made over $5 million and it's far from being an "official" launch

Terraria has sold 1 million copies on word of mouth a lone

Cthulhu saves the world on PC outsells the Xbox 360 version which has been out for over a year in less than a week

funny how you mention multiplats how about all those console exclusives? Not none of those console multiplats, I'm talking 3rd party console exclusives, how many of those with out massive marketing have become success/sold just as much as their mass market counterparts? Demon Souls certainly didn't and it was one of the most praised PS3 exclusives from a dev that's been around since the Dreamcast/playstation era, neither Alan Wake,.

Blizzard games may have mass marketing but it's still nowhere near what you see on consoles FFS

Blizzard games may have mass marketing but it's still nowhere near what you see on consoles FFSNoodleFighter

I'll skip quoting because I'm not going to back and cut the images out. Anyway, you're not going to see many exclusives without marketing, because they're there to market the platform. Of course they're going to be promoted. The rest of your examples contradict a claim that I explicitly said I wasn't making - that PC gamers weren't capable of choosing games without marketing. My argument was, and still is, that console gamers don't lack that ability either.

However, you seem to lack an answer to my question. What distinguishes someone who buys Black Ops 2 or Assassin's Creed 3 on PC from someone who buys them on 360 or PS3? Why is one making a decision based on the game's merits while the other is being led by marketing? You can't take the exact same purchasing decision and spin it two different ways depending on whether you identify with the purchaser.

The game Hotline Miami has be pirated like crazy. This is the price to pay for making PC exclusives, and it is no wonder Crytek, CD Projekt, and other former PC-only developers crawl to consoles.

[quote="GameSpot"]

"It has been torrented to such a staggering level..."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/hotline-miami-pirated-at-extraordinary-levels-6401453

I'll skip quoting because I'm not going to back and cut the images out. Anyway, you're not going to see many exclusives without marketing, because they're there to market the platform. Of course they're going to be promoted. The rest of your examples contradict a claim that I explicitly said I wasn't making - that PC gamers weren't capable of choosing games without marketing. My argument was, and still is, that console gamers don't lack that ability either.

However, you seem to lack an answer to my question. What distinguishes someone who buys Black Ops 2 or Assassin's Creed 3 on PC from someone who buys them on 360 or PS3? Why is one making a decision based on the game's merits while the other is being led by marketing? You can't take the exact same purchasing decision and spin it two different ways depending on whether you identify with the purchaser.

lowe0

When it's a multiplatform mass marketed game sure it will be hard to distinguish, but it's easier to see the difference when it's exclusive/lesser known/marketed titles.

Many developers have stated that with PC market a lot of games are spread around by word of mouth, the indie scene already proves it, I've already shown you with said PC games reaching success/popularity despite not having mass marketing as their console counterparts. PC gamer even has a video interviewing developers on what they think makes PC gamers different from console gamers.

No proof, he doesn't even seem annoyed, and he even says it himself that the source he's claiming isn't accurate.Loegi

[QUOTE="lowe0"]

I'll skip quoting because I'm not going to back and cut the images out. Anyway, you're not going to see many exclusives without marketing, because they're there to market the platform. Of course they're going to be promoted. The rest of your examples contradict a claim that I explicitly said I wasn't making - that PC gamers weren't capable of choosing games without marketing. My argument was, and still is, that console gamers don't lack that ability either.

However, you seem to lack an answer to my question. What distinguishes someone who buys Black Ops 2 or Assassin's Creed 3 on PC from someone who buys them on 360 or PS3? Why is one making a decision based on the game's merits while the other is being led by marketing? You can't take the exact same purchasing decision and spin it two different ways depending on whether you identify with the purchaser.

NoodleFighter

When it's a multiplatform mass marketed game sure it will be hard to distinguish, but it's easier to see the difference when it's exclusive/lesser known/marketed titles.

Many developers have stated that with PC market a lot of games are spread around by word of mouth, the indie scene already proves it, I've already shown you with said PC games reaching success/popularity despite not having mass marketing as their console counterparts.

Everyone's being marketed to. The difference is, I'm not pretending that gamers on my platform of choice are somehow above it. Riadon did.

Are PC gamers actually this cheap that they can't buy a $10 game.blackace

Seems to be. And some smartphone gamers are too cheap to pay 99 cents.

Price has no effect on piracy. A reason for pirating is because they aren't willing to pay anything, not a single cent.