Pirates annihilate this PC exclusive said developer

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#201 Posted by AzatiS (8523 posts) -
There are thousands of PC exclusives out there doing extremely good. So... whatever!!
#202 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

No more big eXclusives for PC but hey this game is (legally) free :cool:

EvanTheGamer

I think you mean more exclusives than PS3, 360 and WiiU combined :lol:

[spoiler]

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[/spoiler]

#203 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="EvanTheGamer"]

No more big eXclusives for PC but hey this game is (legally) free :cool:

MrYaotubo

Guild Wars 2? Mists of Pandaria? Total War series? CoH2?

Arma 3,Obsidian´s Project Eternity,Wasteland 2 by the creator of Fallout,the sequel to one of the best horro games of all time,Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs,obviously the already incredible looking Rome 2 and the multi million dollar incredible freaking Star Citizen,among so many others it´s not even funny lol.

What's consolites excuse for so few big console exclusives ? 360 has exactly one next year:lol:

#204 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="MrYaotubo"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Guild Wars 2? Mists of Pandaria? Total War series? CoH2?

R4gn4r0k

Arma 3,Obsidian´s Project Eternity,Wasteland 2 by the creator of Fallout,the sequel to one of the best horro games of all time,Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs,obviously the already incredible looking Rome 2 and the multi million dollar incredible freaking Star Citizen,among so many others it´s not even funny lol.

What's consolites excuse for so few big console exclusives ? 360 has exactly one next year:lol:

Bu....Bu....But teh next gen!

#205 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

Bu....Bu....But teh next gen!

clyde46

360 must have been pirated to death if we follow evans logic.

#206 Posted by MirkoS77 (8726 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

Bu....Bu....But teh next gen!

R4gn4r0k

360 must have been pirated to death if we follow evans logic.

^^^

Company of Heroes 2?

#207 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

^^^

Company of Heroes 2?

MirkoS77

yes sir:)

#208 Posted by MirkoS77 (8726 posts) -

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

^^^

Company of Heroes 2?

R4gn4r0k

yes sir:)

Can't wait. Do you know release date?

#209 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

Actually COH2 reminds of something. Lets look at some big third party publisher shall we:

  1. THQ: how many upcoming console exclusives do they have ? Zero. Yet they have a big PC exclusive coming up
  2. EA: Again, zero console exclusives. Yet they have Sim City and C&C exclusively for PC
  3. Activision-Blizzard: Again, zero console exclusives. Yet they have a Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 expansion coming exclusively for, you guessed it, PC

Why would they do such things if the platform is pirated to death like some are claiming in this thread ? It makes no sense

Can't wait. Do you know release date?

MirkoS77

I'm anxiously awaiting it aswell. All we know is 'early 2013'. I'm guessing its february-march.

#210 Posted by XenogearsMaster (3123 posts) -
Damn Hermits. Stop that... "Bu b ub bu ubu we arez teh maszters of racezz..."
#211 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"]

[QUOTE="Riadon2"]

Consolites only buy mainstream games with 7-digit advertising budgets.

NoodleFighter

Please. The first Borderlands did well enough to warrant a sequel. Deus Ex Human Revolution seems to have done just fine. Dishonored is selling well enough that the publisher is already calling it a franchise. We're buying games that don't have massive marketing behind them. Meanwhile, there's Call of Duty: Black Ops II on the Steam top 10 list, marketing and all, with Assassin's Creed III and Borderlands 2 (more heavily advertised than its predecessor - Claptrap was even on Fox's NFL Sunday show) in the top 20.

Basically, this is the gaming equivalent of hipsters disavowing their favorite band because it's now played on the radio. Gaming isn't just for you anymore. Get used to it.

:lol:

not to mention all the games you listed have had TV ads

A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing.
#212 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Please. The first Borderlands did well enough to warrant a sequel. Deus Ex Human Revolution seems to have done just fine. Dishonored is selling well enough that the publisher is already calling it a franchise. We're buying games that don't have massive marketing behind them. Meanwhile, there's Call of Duty: Black Ops II on the Steam top 10 list, marketing and all, with Assassin's Creed III and Borderlands 2 (more heavily advertised than its predecessor - Claptrap was even on Fox's NFL Sunday show) in the top 20.

Basically, this is the gaming equivalent of hipsters disavowing their favorite band because it's now played on the radio. Gaming isn't just for you anymore. Get used to it.

lowe0

:lol:

not to mention all the games you listed have had TV ads

A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing.

Do you know how much "a few TV and billboards ads" actually cost? Plus, they are considered mass marketing.

#213 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

:lol:

not to mention all the games you listed have had TV ads

clyde46

A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing.

Do you know how much "a few TV and billboards ads" actually cost? Plus, they are considered mass marketing.

No. I do know, however, that it depends on timing. Getting a 30 second spot on Comedy Central is not in the same league as premiering a trailer during the NBA Finals.
#214 Posted by JigglyWiggly_ (23982 posts) -
130,000 copies that's it? people who pirate indie games disgust me
#215 Posted by Chris_Williams (14882 posts) -

stuff like this i gotta side with the developer, you know the guy who actually works in the industry, not hobbysists who don't make their living from developing games.

#216 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing. lowe0

Do you know how much "a few TV and billboards ads" actually cost? Plus, they are considered mass marketing.

No. I do know, however, that it depends on timing. Getting a 30 second spot on Comedy Central is not in the same league as premiering a trailer during the NBA Finals.

Indeed but it still costs money, normally far more than anyone but the major devs backed by massive publishers can afford.

#217 Posted by MrYaotubo (2798 posts) -

stuff like this i gotta side with the developer, you know the guy who actually works in the industry, not hobbysists who don't make their living from developing games.

Chris_Williams
But you do know that the thread title is misleading and the developer haven´t said anything against the piracy numbers? In fact,there´s no numbers whatsoever,and the dev himself was on torrent sites helping people to get the pirated copies patched and all that,and he always said he didn´t gave a damn about piracy,what he certainly gives a damn about is that his game,with no marketing whatsoever sold over 130k copies,wich for instance is already more than say,PS All Stars,so he couldn´t be happier. So in what way are you actually siding with the developer?
#219 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

Do you know how much "a few TV and billboards ads" actually cost? Plus, they are considered mass marketing.

clyde46

No. I do know, however, that it depends on timing. Getting a 30 second spot on Comedy Central is not in the same league as premiering a trailer during the NBA Finals.

Indeed but it still costs money, normally far more than anyone but the major devs backed by massive publishers can afford.

Which still doesn't guarantee sales - just ask Rockstar how Max Payne 3 worked out for them. Meanwhile, Minecraft has sold almost 5 million on 360 without a Times Square launch event. Independent developers can market to users directly through the dashboard, the same way they can on Steam.
#220 Posted by MBirdy88 (9289 posts) -

[QUOTE="Loegi"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] What exactly are you arguing. That this game wasn't attacked by piracy, or his claim of how many times it was pirated?jhcho2

That he's making baseless claims. Like almost every article about piracy.

That's the problem with PC games. Piracy is rampant, and hermits refuse to admit it's a problem. Then they blame devs for consolization.

Yes, now come back to reality like the rest of us please. We know full well piracy is a problem for every single digital medium, but we also know that despite the problem the platform is still by far the biggest, generates the most revanua and recieves the most quality exclusives and multiplats than nearly the big 3 consoles combined. So in short, your desperation to ignore the fact that the PS3 is a Broken piracy machine where you can even play full online with pirated games (Cant do that on PC mate.) the Wii is the same, and the xbox usually gets millions of leaks before PC versions. Try harder, you fail. Piracy is a problem for all, and is overblown for all.
#221 Posted by MBirdy88 (9289 posts) -
[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]130,000 copies that's it? people who pirate indie games disgust me

130,000 ... for an indie game made by 2 people disgusts you? :S
#222 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

130,000 copies that's it? people who pirate indie games disgust meJigglyWiggly_

Seems quite a lot to me. Keeping in mind thats just in one month and its for an indie title.

What other indie title released this year has sold that much in one month ?

#223 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] No. I do know, however, that it depends on timing. Getting a 30 second spot on Comedy Central is not in the same league as premiering a trailer during the NBA Finals.lowe0

Indeed but it still costs money, normally far more than anyone but the major devs backed by massive publishers can afford.

Which still doesn't guarantee sales - just ask Rockstar how Max Payne 3 worked out for them. Meanwhile, Minecraft has sold almost 5 million on 360 without a Times Square launch event. Independent developers can market to users directly through the dashboard, the same way they can on Steam.

There are also games that dont even make it to the front page on Steam yet still are great games. Smart devs can use piracy to get more people talking about their games. Just like the dev behind Hotline Miami. It still costs devs to put games on the front page of Steam and even more for XBL. Some devs dont even have that much.

#224 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17620 posts) -

Yes, now come back to reality like the rest of us please. We know full well piracy is a problem for every single digital medium, but we also know that despite the problem the platform is still by far the biggest, generates the most revanua and recieves the most quality exclusives and multiplats than nearly the big 3 consoles combined. So in short, your desperation to ignore the fact that the PS3 is a Broken piracy machine where you can even play full online with pirated games (Cant do that on PC mate.) the Wii is the same, and the xbox usually gets millions of leaks before PC versions. Try harder, you fail. Piracy is a problem for all, and is overblown for all.MBirdy88

Some people will jump on any sensationalist news about PC to claim it's dead, ignoring any facts that don't suit their case.

#225 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="EvanTheGamer"]

PC Gamers please stop PIRATING your platform to DEATH v_v

EvanTheGamer

What do you care ?

Well now that you mention it, PC Gamers keep PIRATING your platform!

It has led to great F2P games like Leauge of Legends!

No more big eXclusives for PC but hey this game is (legally) free :cool:

Well I don't really care for exclusive... I just want great games. But to say there won't be anymore exclusive on PC, you couldn't be any more wrong.

#226 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="EvanTheGamer"]

PC Gamers please stop PIRATING your platform to DEATH v_v

EvanTheGamer

What do you care ?

Well now that you mention it, PC Gamers keep PIRATING your platform!

It has led to great F2P games like Leauge of Legends!

No more big eXclusives for PC but hey this game is (legally) free :cool:

Man you are a nub.

The Free to Play model has been shown to make more money than the standard $60 price tag for games. Its a great way of introducing new players to games where they may of been unwilling to try due to the price tag. It also allows gamers to pay for what they want item wise.

#227 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Please. The first Borderlands did well enough to warrant a sequel. Deus Ex Human Revolution seems to have done just fine. Dishonored is selling well enough that the publisher is already calling it a franchise. We're buying games that don't have massive marketing behind them. Meanwhile, there's Call of Duty: Black Ops II on the Steam top 10 list, marketing and all, with Assassin's Creed III and Borderlands 2 (more heavily advertised than its predecessor - Claptrap was even on Fox's NFL Sunday show) in the top 20.

Basically, this is the gaming equivalent of hipsters disavowing their favorite band because it's now played on the radio. Gaming isn't just for you anymore. Get used to it.

lowe0

:lol:

not to mention all the games you listed have had TV ads

A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing.

The show "face off" made a whole episode about Dishonered...

#228 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

:lol:

not to mention all the games you listed have had TV ads

Bebi_vegeta

A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing.

The show "face off" made a whole episode about Dishonered...

A show on an also-ran basic cable network? Seriously?
#229 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="clyde46"]

Indeed but it still costs money, normally far more than anyone but the major devs backed by massive publishers can afford.

clyde46

Which still doesn't guarantee sales - just ask Rockstar how Max Payne 3 worked out for them. Meanwhile, Minecraft has sold almost 5 million on 360 without a Times Square launch event. Independent developers can market to users directly through the dashboard, the same way they can on Steam.

There are also games that dont even make it to the front page on Steam yet still are great games. Smart devs can use piracy to get more people talking about their games. Just like the dev behind Hotline Miami. It still costs devs to put games on the front page of Steam and even more for XBL. Some devs dont even have that much.

That doesn't address Riadon's statement though. He said that consolites only play games with 7 figure marketing budgets. Whether piracy can be used as cheap marketing doesn't confirm nor contradict that statement.
#230 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] A few TV ads and billboards are hardly massive marketing. lowe0

The show "face off" made a whole episode about Dishonered...

A show on an also-ran basic cable network? Seriously?

Man I don't know if it's morning, but I didn't what you just said...

#231 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

The show "face off" made a whole episode about Dishonered...

Bebi_vegeta

A show on an also-ran basic cable network? Seriously?

Man I don't know if it's morning, but I didn't what you just said...

You're seriously comparing a single episode on a basic cable network to Call of Duty's reveals during the NBA Finals the past few years? Which one has more viewers?
#232 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] A show on an also-ran basic cable network? Seriously?lowe0

Man I don't know if it's morning, but I didn't what you just said...

You're seriously comparing a single episode on a basic cable network to Call of Duty's reveals during the NBA Finals the past few years? Which one has more viewers?

Well it's more adds then most games... the show is on Syfy, maybe on others aswell.

#233 Posted by Ballroompirate (23926 posts) -

130,000 copies that's it? people who pirate indie games disgust meJigglyWiggly_

Sad things is the game is $9.99, it was even $4.99 during the steam sale last month. No excuse to pirate a fracking $10 game.

#234 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Man I don't know if it's morning, but I didn't what you just said...

Bebi_vegeta

You're seriously comparing a single episode on a basic cable network to Call of Duty's reveals during the NBA Finals the past few years? Which one has more viewers?

Well it's more adds then most games... the show is on Syfy, maybe on others aswell.

I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?
#235 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] You're seriously comparing a single episode on a basic cable network to Call of Duty's reveals during the NBA Finals the past few years? Which one has more viewers?lowe0

Well it's more adds then most games... the show is on Syfy, maybe on others aswell.

I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

#236 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Well it's more adds then most games... the show is on Syfy, maybe on others aswell.

Bebi_vegeta

I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.
#237 Posted by Ballroompirate (23926 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] You're seriously comparing a single episode on a basic cable network to Call of Duty's reveals during the NBA Finals the past few years? Which one has more viewers?lowe0

Well it's more adds then most games... the show is on Syfy, maybe on others aswell.

I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?

Since I try to mix up my gaming style (usually try to do 50/50 between consoles and pc) it's not hard to look at a game in gameplay vids, video game mags ect ect and see if it interests you. Over time you just get a feel of the series and genres you like and it goes from there.

The reason why there's ads on chips and mountain is to reach a wider audience, it's to bring those people who don't surf web sites like Gamespot,IGN or read magazines like Gameinformer,PC gamer ect ect. Of course not every publisher has the money to do that with every game.

#238 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?lowe0

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.

With some ads would help more right ?

#239 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

Bebi_vegeta

Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.

With some ads would help more right ?

The question wasn't whether ads were present. It's whether we're capable of purchasing games without a million dollar campaign behind them. Do you have any conclusive evidence that we're not capable of that?
#240 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] I'm aware of what network it's on. What I'm asking is, assuming Riadon's statement is true, how did consolites know to buy it without it being on the side of our Mountain Dew and Doritos?lowe0

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

#241 Posted by santoron (8415 posts) -

PC Gamers please stop PIRATING your platform to DEATH v_v

EvanTheGamer

Yeah, piracy on PC is killing it... which is why Steam's revenue has (at least) doubled for seven straight years now, and overall PC gaming revenue was up another 15% last year, while console gaming has declined in revenue now for four straight years.

Perhaps your concerns have been misplaced?:roll:

#242 Posted by santoron (8415 posts) -

Obviously pirating are hurting PC developers, I don't understand some hermits here that say it's not that significant. It's one of the reasons PC devs go develop for console.

How are you supposed to make money off a game and keep your business a float when half your revenue is being sapped by thieves?

I don't blame them.

Blazerdt47

Perhaps you'd like to show me a link to this decline of sales on PC? Because I can't find one, though I can find plenty about declining console game sales...

#243 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.lowe0

With some ads would help more right ?

The question wasn't whether ads were present. It's whether we're capable of purchasing games without a million dollar campaign behind them. Do you have any conclusive evidence that we're not capable of that?

No, not really since I didn't do an investigation... I was only talking about Dishonored.

#244 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

With some ads would help more right ?

Bebi_vegeta

The question wasn't whether ads were present. It's whether we're capable of purchasing games without a million dollar campaign behind them. Do you have any conclusive evidence that we're not capable of that?

No, not really since I didn't do an investigation... I was only talking about Dishonored.

Okay, so if you don't have anything to say about Riadon's statement, what's your point?
#245 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

How do any consolite know about games if it's not beside mountain dew and doritos ?

menes777

Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.
#246 Posted by N30F3N1X (8094 posts) -

The paying customer, actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problemlowe0

Nothing there supports what you said or puts a dent in my point. "Fair" according to who?

Just admit that you don't have an answer and save yourself the pain of prolonging your agony ;)

#247 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"]The paying customer, actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problemN30F3N1X

Nothing there supports what you said or puts a dent in my point. "Fair" according to who?

Just admit that you don't have an answer and save yourself the pain of prolonging your agony ;)

The link does explain that, actually. The loss is whatever work would have produced had the developers received the lost revenue. In lesser cases, it simply reduces incentive; in more severe cases, it starves the developer of resources that could be used to produce the next game.
#248 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Word of mouth would be a pretty obvious one.lowe0

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

#249 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="menes777"]

Not so much for the console world. CoD keeps making record breaking sales because it's constantly in our face with massive amounts of advertising spent on it. If a game isn't hyped to hell and back on console it probably doesn't do very well. There is the rare exception but for the most part unless a game has a huge advertising budget it's going to fail. Word of mouth on consoles is nowhere near the same level as it is on PC.

clyde46

Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

Bzzt. Did you not meet any music snobs in high school and college? Plenty of 16 to 21 year olds find music that's not mass marketed. Why would games be any different?
#250 Posted by clyde46 (47869 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Okay, prove it. Explain in detail why PC gamers are able to make decisions about games independently yet console gamers cannot. If you're going to spout this sort of elitist nonsense, then back it up.lowe0

The general age group on consoles may contribe to it. There is a massive market for games aimed at the 16-21 age gamer. COD being one of those.

Bzzt. Did you not meet any music snobs in high school and college? Plenty of 16 to 21 year olds find music that's not mass marketed. Why would games be any different?

I said may... I've met plenty of hipster snobs but I've also met my fair share of "Bro" gamers, if it isnt COD or HALO then it doesnt exist sort of mindset.