Pirates annihilate this PC exclusive said developer

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#101 Posted by lostrib (37709 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

ShadowMoses900

This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.

Yes true, but it's a much bigger problem on PC. DRM doesn't seem to help either.

Actually DRM can make it worse

#102 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

Nah. It will be my goddess. freedomfreak

Aphrodite, the goddess of beauty ?

or Dayna, the goddess of cosplay ?;)

#103 Posted by wis3boi (31472 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.

lostrib

Yes true, but it's a much bigger problem on PC. DRM doesn't seem to help either.

Actually DRM can make it worse

And at least most western countries aren't selling bootleg console games and consoles in the market, unlike a vast portion of other countries.

#104 Posted by freedomfreak (40954 posts) -

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Nah. It will be my goddess. R4gn4r0k

Aphrodite, the goddess of beauty ?

or Dayna, the goddess of cosplay ?;)

They're one and the same :3
#105 Posted by McStrongfast (4271 posts) -
That's not what he said.
#106 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

Actually DRM can make it worse

lostrib

But companies will never admit that.

Ubisoft: "Our DRM is a success, we are getting more sales"

a couple of months later

Ubisoft: "Our DRM will no longer be present in any games"

#107 Posted by N30F3N1X (8002 posts) -

Correct. People who decline to do business with them, yet feel entitled to the benefits of that transaction anyway.lowe0

Okay, so who loses anything in this?

#108 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.

lostrib

Yes true, but it's a much bigger problem on PC. DRM doesn't seem to help either.

Actually DRM can make it worse

So what's the solution? PC is too open of a platform this is why there is no real way to solve this.

#109 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

They're one and the same :3freedomfreak

But it's not her in your current sig/avatar right ? (with all that cosplaying I still don't know what she actually looks like, haha)

#110 Posted by freedomfreak (40954 posts) -

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]They're one and the same :3R4gn4r0k

But it's not her in your current/sig avatar right ? (with all that cosplaying I still don't know what she actually looks like, haha)

No :P Her name's Jenn Croft
#111 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

So what's the solution? PC is too open of a platform this is why there is no real way to solve this.

ShadowMoses900

Are your proposing to make PC a close platform ?

You do know there is piracy on closed platforms too, right ?

#112 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

No :P Her name's Jenn Croftfreedomfreak

Perfect name for Tomb Raider cosplay:P

#113 Posted by freedomfreak (40954 posts) -

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]No :P Her name's Jenn CroftR4gn4r0k

Perfect name for Tomb Raider cosplay:P

Right? That is a good name
#114 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So what's the solution? PC is too open of a platform this is why there is no real way to solve this.

R4gn4r0k

Are your proposing to make PC a close platform ?

You do know there is piracy on closed platforms too, right ?

No because that would kill competition on the PC. However PC has bigger piracy than consoles do, so what's the solution then? No hermit never has an answer.

#115 Posted by DarkLink77 (31697 posts) -
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]"Struthers said he is not aware of specific piracy figures for Hotline Miami, but regardless, he is not particularly perturbed by the illegal downloading. In fact, developer Jonatan Söderström even released a legitimate patch for pirated versions of Hotline Miami because "he didn't want people playing the buggy version of his game however they got it."" True developer support, what a great guy! Any pirates you should be ashamed, support gaming and esp great devs!

Of course, the TC conveniently left that bit out.
#116 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

No because that would kill competition on the PC. However PC has bigger piracy than consoles do, so what's the solution then? No hermit never has an answer.

ShadowMoses900

Of course no hermit has the answer. Even smart people, tasked by big companies to come up with solutions for piracy can't think of one. You expect people on a gaming forum to ?

What do you propose to stop piracy once and for all ?

#117 Posted by Iantheone (8242 posts) -

Struthers said he is not aware of specific piracy figures for Hotline Miami, but regardless, he is not particularly perturbed by the illegal downloading. In fact, developer Jonatan Söderström even released a legitimate patch for pirated versions of Hotline Miami because "he didn't want people playing the buggy version of his game however they got it."

So they dont really have any figures, and the makers of the game dont really care. This is destroying PC gaming how?
#118 Posted by slimjimbadboy (1731 posts) -

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

Most of the piracy happens outside of the United States

PCgameruk

:lol:

This is true, most people here have no idea how easy it is to get a modded 360 or PS3 outside of NA(not hard to do it yourself but thats another topic). As I said before when Ubisoft said their piracy rates were in the upper 90%s; Consider the populations that have potentially better financial situations and more importantly culturally adverse to piracy compared to the populations of emerging gamers that don't have the cultural taboos of piracy. Looking at the numbers and seeing 500k sold and 5000k pirated seems totally legitimate to me. Not that I am saying piracy is good in any manner but when you open your wares to markets you should cater to the people who will purchase your product.

That being said, I haven't played the game yet. Is it worth $10 or should I wait for a sale and probably forget about it all together?

#119 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

No because that would kill competition on the PC. However PC has bigger piracy than consoles do, so what's the solution then? No hermit never has an answer.

R4gn4r0k

Of course no hermit has the answer. Even smart people, tasked by big companies to come up with solutions for piracy can't think of one. You expect people on a gaming forum to ?

What do you propose to stop piracy once and for all ?

I don't have an answer either, some suggest making better games but that doesn't really work. People are simply going to pirate, the best devs can do I think is try to put some anti-piracy software in their games. I remember a long time ago if someone pirated a game, the devs would do something to it where a certain feature didn't work right.

#120 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"]Correct. People who decline to do business with them, yet feel entitled to the benefits of that transaction anyway.N30F3N1X

Okay, so who loses anything in this?

The paying customer, actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem
#121 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

I don't have an answer either, some suggest making better games but that doesn't really work. People are simply going to pirate, the best devs can do I think is try to put some anti-piracy software in their games. I remember a long time ago if someone pirated a game, the devs would do something to it where a certain feature didn't work right.

ShadowMoses900

Yeah a more recent example of that was Batman: Arkham Asylum where you couldn't fly or something with the pirated version, so you couldn't advance. But that, just like DRM, can be removed by the hacking scene. So in the end it doesn't even bother most pirates. It's an inventive system, but I don't know if it'll stop many from pirating.

I think a service like steam is a good way to fight piracy. It allows for a lot of ways to pay for games and there are a lot of sales, so people can buy games at the price they want to. Just make it as easy as possible for people to buy your game (no jumping through hoops), and at the right price they will.

And than there are people that will never, ever buy the game no matter how good the service or how low the price. We can't change the industry for them.

edit: or developments like the F2P model, thats a good way to fight piracy too.

#122 Posted by parkurtommo (27244 posts) -
I bought on last steam sale, still need to play it ...blue_hazy_basic
So did I, it's really fun! You should play it, like rite nao
#123 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I don't have an answer either, some suggest making better games but that doesn't really work. People are simply going to pirate, the best devs can do I think is try to put some anti-piracy software in their games. I remember a long time ago if someone pirated a game, the devs would do something to it where a certain feature didn't work right.

R4gn4r0k

Yeah a more recent example of that was Batman: Arkham Asylum where you couldn't fly or something with the pirated version, so you couldn't advance. But that, just like DRM, can be removed by the hacking scene. So in the end it doesn't even bother most pirates. It's an inventive system, but I don't know if it'll stop many from pirating.

I think a service like steam is a good way to fight piracy. It allows for a lot of ways to pay for games and there are a lot of sales, so people can buy games at the price they want to. Just make it as easy as possible for people to buy your game (no jumping through hoops), and at the right price they will.

And than there are people that will never, ever buy the game no matter how good the service or how low the price. We can't change the industry for them.

Honestly, without Steam I think PC Gaming would be dead in this day and age. It generates the most revenue for the PC gaming market. Unfortunately there is little anyone can do. Piracy is going to happen, the best devs can do is to estimate how much they think it will get pirated and try to compensate for that.

Fortunately there are good people who don't pirate. But I don't think people that pirate games are bad per se, I know a couple people who pirate and while I hate what they do, they are good people in real life.

#124 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

Honestly, without Steam I think PC Gaming would be dead in this day and age. It generates the most revenue for the PC gaming market. Unfortunately there is little anyone can do. Piracy is going to happen, the best devs can do is to estimate how much they think it will get pirated and try to compensate for that.

Fortunately there are good people who don't pirate. But I don't think people that pirate games are bad per se, I know a couple people who pirate and while I hate what they do, they are good people in real life.

ShadowMoses900

"It generates the most revenue for the PC gaming market in the US" you forgot to add that important part I think. Steam and DD in general has overtaken PC retail in the US, to the point where some games like sleeping dogs don't even get released in brick and mortar stores. In the rest of the world, this is not the case however.

The only thing a dev can do is create a great game really. I don't think I know anyone that has touched a computer that hasn't downloaded a game or a song or a movie or a TV series in their life.

#125 Posted by Riadon2 (1609 posts) -

Lol @ consolites condemning PC gaming due to piracy.

Used game sales are just as bad, if not worse. People who buy used games are actually willing to pay for the games (buying a $60 game for $55 used), unlike pirates who would probably not play a game at all if it were not up for illegal download. Plus, buying used games is very legal and widely accepted, so it is FAR more widespread than piracy.

And remember that console games are pirated, too.

#126 Posted by Jankarcop (9627 posts) -

Used game sales + Console Piracy = PC Piracy (in money lost)

Only you guys end up with much worse..well...everything (less games, less exclusives, worse gfx, no mods, closed online, much worse performance, less everything)

#127 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

Used game sales + Console Piracy = PC Piracy (in money lost)

Only you guys end up with much worse..well...everything (less games, less exclusives, worse gfx, no mods, closed online, much worse performance, less everything)

Jankarcop

Nicely said, it's pretty convenient how console users forget that used game sales aren't helping their side much either.

#128 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16650 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Used game sales + Console Piracy = PC Piracy (in money lost)

Only you guys end up with much worse..well...everything (less games, less exclusives, worse gfx, no mods, closed online, much worse performance, less everything)

menes777

Nicely said, it's pretty convenient how console users forget that used game sales aren't helping their side much either.

They hide behind the fact that its legal and piracy is not. Forgetting that it hurts developers about the same as pirating.

#129 Posted by KungfuKitten (21139 posts) -

I bought it and I don't like it. So tick one off the piracy counter, my money wasn't earned.

#130 Posted by KungfuKitten (21139 posts) -

BTW it really looks like piracy drives sales. 130.000 copies sold is absolutely massive for an indi title.

#131 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So what's the solution? PC is too open of a platform this is why there is no real way to solve this.

ShadowMoses900

Are your proposing to make PC a close platform ?

You do know there is piracy on closed platforms too, right ?

No because that would kill competition on the PC. However PC has bigger piracy than consoles do, so what's the solution then? No hermit never has an answer.

There's plenty of illegal activity out there... and there's laws, yet people still do it... so what's the next step you propose for these people ?

#132 Posted by SAGE_OF_FIRE (15587 posts) -

Those sales are good considering it's a niche indie game but it's a shame it's been pirated so much. Hell it sold more than the original Crysis did in it's first mont and that went on to sell 3.5 million copies.

#133 Posted by musicalmac (23036 posts) -
The rise of gated, dedicated app stores will continue to gain steam...
#134 Posted by funsohng (28117 posts) -
It also was quite a success for the indie developer, with 130k sales, which, for a PC-only indie game with 2D graphics, is quite a lot. It also is one of the best games of this year, so do try this game out. It's only 10 bucks, really.
#135 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3760 posts) -
Probably why the free to play model is taking off
#136 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

Used game sales + Console Piracy = PC Piracy (in money lost)

Jankarcop
Source for numbers to compare?
#137 Posted by MSXBOX4EVER (550 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Used game sales + Console Piracy = PC Piracy (in money lost)

lowe0

Source for numbers to compare?

His imagination.

#138 Posted by MBirdy88 (8330 posts) -

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So what's the solution? PC is too open of a platform this is why there is no real way to solve this.

ShadowMoses900

Are your proposing to make PC a close platform ?

You do know there is piracy on closed platforms too, right ?

No because that would kill competition on the PC. However PC has bigger piracy than consoles do, so what's the solution then? No hermit never has an answer.

Nobody knows a solution, the nature of personal computers and reverse engineering makes it impossible to stop. nobody cares, the platform is still by far the biggest single gaming entity.
#139 Posted by OB-47 (10909 posts) -

It's disgusting that it was pirated so much, but it still did well. Steam generally helps lessen the effects of piracy.

#140 Posted by RyuRanVII (4251 posts) -
Hotline Miami sold well enough considering it's a niche indie game without any marketing behind it, otherwise it wouldn't be getting a sequel scheduled to be released next year. If it were released on consoles the developers would prabably be looking for another line of work as of now.
#141 Posted by Wiimotefan (4078 posts) -

BUY THIS GAME. Really. Its dirt cheap and its awesome.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend I never pirated anything, but pirating something like this is ridiculous.

#142 Posted by Senor_Kami (8428 posts) -
Most shocking thing to me is that he made a patch for the pirated copy. That's basically telling people that having bootleg copy is totally ok with him and he'll even go out of his way to enhance the pirated experience. Why bother buying his next game if he's so cool with piracy?
#143 Posted by mariokart64fan (19522 posts) -

this happens not just on pc , lol , if any one has seen the servers on many cod 007 games lately , ,

cheaters and scammers everywhere , and your surprised ?

#144 Posted by MonsieurX (30451 posts) -

this happens not just on pc , lol , if any one has seen the servers on many cod 007 games lately , ,

cheaters and scammers everywhere , and your surprised ?

mariokart64fan
cod 007? That's a new game?
#145 Posted by lundy86_4 (43540 posts) -

Most shocking thing to me is that he made a patch for the pirated copy. That's basically telling people that having bootleg copy is totally ok with him and he'll even go out of his way to enhance the pirated experience. Why bother buying his next game if he's so cool with piracy?Senor_Kami

He specifically addresses this, and states that he doesn't want people to pirate the game, but states that he's been broke before, and that he still wants them to enjoy the game.

#146 Posted by SaltyMeatballs (25150 posts) -
Sold 130k copies, I am sure the two guys that made the game will cope.
#147 Posted by Ballroompirate (23049 posts) -

Lol @ consolites condemning PC gaming due to piracy.

Used game sales are just as bad, if not worse. People who buy used games are actually willing to pay for the games (buying a $60 game for $55 used), unlike pirates who would probably not play a game at all if it were not up for illegal download. Plus, buying used games is very legal and widely accepted, so it is FAR more widespread than piracy.

And remember that console games are pirated, too.

Riadon2

Takes one person to pirate a game to give to hundreds or thousands of people who DL pirated stuff.

Takes more than one person to buy then sell a "used" game so hundreds if not thousands of people can play it.

People who say used games hurts the industry more than pirating are just stupid as hell, yes buying used games hurts the industry but no where near on the lvl people claim it does. Game stores have been selling used games for a good 2 decades if not more, hell I remember going into my local Gameforce (R.I.P. Gameforce) and seeing used Snes,Sega Saturn and regular Nintendo games when I was 10 (which was 16 years ago).

#148 Posted by SaltyMeatballs (25150 posts) -

Most shocking thing to me is that he made a patch for the pirated copy. That's basically telling people that having bootleg copy is totally ok with him and he'll even go out of his way to enhance the pirated experience. Why bother buying his next game if he's so cool with piracy?Senor_Kami
It's nothing to do with that actually. It's about a few things:

- Getting on the good side of the pirates. Maybe he will get a few sympathy purchases from the pirates, this game is cheap so it's more likely than with a $60 game.
- If people are going to play his game, he wants them to play a good version not a buggy version. Maybe in the future some pirates won't be broke and will want to buy his next game because they enjoyed this game.
- Free publicity. Because he gave support to pirates this story came up on a lot of gaming sites, which can only help sales (and piracy of course) of his game.

You can't stop the cheapasses who pirate for the sake of it though.

#149 Posted by k2theswiss (16599 posts) -

look at it.... choice of art style from what i seen i wouldn't give a dollar to... BUT i keep hearing it's quite good. but there is noo way to try it out through a demo. SO what do you think i am going to do if i want to play it?

~ game looks don't look appealing IMO

~ BUT people say it is good

~ no demo to try it out

= pirate

#150 Posted by jhcho2 (4427 posts) -

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="Loegi"] That isn't proof, and like he said himself, the pirate bay isn't accurate at all for this game especially.Loegi
What exactly are you arguing. That this game wasn't attacked by piracy, or his claim of how many times it was pirated?

That he's making baseless claims. Like almost every article about piracy.

That's the problem with PC games. Piracy is rampant, and hermits refuse to admit it's a problem. Then they blame devs for consolization.