Pirates annihilate this PC exclusive said developer

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MFDOOM1983

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#51 MFDOOM1983
Member since 2010 • 8465 Posts
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]Two man team 130k copies sold announces sequel Dev annihilated?

Consolites just don't understand... Everything is pirated.

It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.

I don't see anyone arguing for piracy here. It is, what it is.
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Sushiglutton

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#52 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 9853 Posts

[QUOTE="Sushiglutton"]Make a quality game that is cheap and hermits will buy it. That's what hermits told me.lundy86_4

Did anybody say that piracy would not happen were the quality game cheap enough?

Probably
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DoomZaW

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#53 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

So much denial from PC gamers: "it sold well enough for a sequel, so those pirated copies doesn't matter."

Mr_BillGates

How do you think the TWO MAN DEVELOPER team feels? They are not even thirty years old, they've achieved an international release for a game they made in less than a year. It sold 130.000K, it has gotten amazing review scores and nominations from international gaming sites. In this day and age, that is argueably one of the best outcomes for an indie developer regardless of platform.

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N30F3N1X

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#54 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.DontGetBigIdeas

Perturbed by what?

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lowe0

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#55 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.N30F3N1X

Perturbed by what?

Freeloaders who think it's alright that everyone else should have to cover the cost of making the game? Lost opportunity for revenue (not 1-to-1 lost revenue) that they could invest in building their next game?
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#56 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts
...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.
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MFDOOM1983

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#57 MFDOOM1983
Member since 2010 • 8465 Posts

[QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

So much denial from PC gamers: "it sold well enough for a sequel, so those pirated copies doesn't matter."

DoomZaW

How do you think the TWO MAN DEVELOPER team feels? They are not even thirty years old, they've achieved an international release for a game they made in less than a year. It sold 130.000K, it has gotten amazing review scores and nominations from international gaming sites. In this day and age, that is argueably one of the best outcomes for an indie developer regardless of platform.

They even managed to patch the cracked version of the game. Meanwhile, fez is still waiting for a patch because it costs an astronomical amount of money for MS to press a button.
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MrYaotubo

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#58 MrYaotubo
Member since 2012 • 2884 Posts
Yeah,they´re so anihilated that not only the dev said he didn´t cared for piracy but he helped the pirates to have a better version of the game,not to mention that he his already making a sequel. Anihilated indeed :lol:
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#59 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

Freeloaders who think it's alright that everyone else should have to cover the cost of making the game? Lost opportunity for revenue (not 1-to-1 lost revenue) that they could invest in building their next game?lowe0

So people that are not their costumers?

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#60 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas

Lost sales? According to? You?

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lowe0

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#61 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

[QUOTE="lowe0"]Freeloaders who think it's alright that everyone else should have to cover the cost of making the game? Lost opportunity for revenue (not 1-to-1 lost revenue) that they could invest in building their next game?N30F3N1X

So people that are not their costumers?

Correct. People who decline to do business with them, yet feel entitled to the benefits of that transaction anyway.
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#62 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.N30F3N1X

Lost sales? According to? You?

Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.
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TheEpicGoat

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#63 TheEpicGoat
Member since 2011 • 2006 Posts

They were helping people pirate the game

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MFDOOM1983

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#64 MFDOOM1983
Member since 2010 • 8465 Posts
[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas

Lost sales? According to? You?

Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?
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#65 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts
[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas

Lost sales? According to? You?

Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

What's needed to further that line of discussion is the probability of converting a pirate to a purchaser, in the absence of a pirate copy (or some other factor making piracy undesirable, such as truly effective DRM), less the probability of converting a pirate to a purchaser who does have a copy. That margin is where the lost revenue would come from. We don't have those two numbers, so it's hard to figure out the true cost of piracy.
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#66 Rocker6
Member since 2009 • 13358 Posts

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas

Lost sales? According to? You?

Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...

Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...

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#67 jsmoke03
Member since 2004 • 13717 Posts

Its still like 45th in the top sellers on steam. And i don't see how you can link this to (PC pirates). Any PC would play this game and any nobody can go to a torrent site and download it. Even if this game was on console a console gamer could still just download it for PC because they can. Yet PC gamers would be blamed for all the Piracy.

Piracy is everywhere.

PCgameruk
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#68 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Lost sales? According to? You?

MFDOOM1983
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?

Because it's not necessarily a 0%-100% split. For example, we can accept from evidence in this thread that there are people who are willing to purchase the game, given the existence of a free copy. Why is it impossible to accept that there are also people who would be willing to purchase the game in the absence of said free copy?
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#69 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Lost sales? According to? You?

MFDOOM1983
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?

If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money.
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#70 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Lost sales? According to? You?

Rocker6

Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.

Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...

Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...

I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.
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#71 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

Goes to show how sh!tty pc gaming isCapitan_Kid

Because there is no piracy on consoles, right ?

or on handhelds ?

or on smartphones ?

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#72 Rocker6
Member since 2009 • 13358 Posts

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeas
How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?

If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then?

Because they felt the game isn't worth the money asked, for example?

Most of those people would refuse to buy the game even if piracy was impossible, they would simply be in another hobby.

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mrfrosty151986

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#73 mrfrosty151986
Member since 2012 • 533 Posts

Developers don't move to console because of piracy, if you beleive that then you're an idiot.

They move to console because game development costs are increasing so they need to reach as many platforms as possible to reclaim as much money as possible to keep the development of future games going.

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#74 Rocker6
Member since 2009 • 13358 Posts

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeas

Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...

Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...

I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.

True, they earned you nothing, but chances are, making those people pay for the game is nearly impossible, as they simply don't want to do it...

Also, publishers often have a very wrong way of looking at piracy, instead of trying to give those people a reason to buy the game, they insist on alienating honest consumers with complicated DRM schemes which can often get in the way of the enjoyment...

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#75 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.DontGetBigIdeas

Don't remember where I read it but price has zero influence on piracy. Even 99 cents games get pirated, because it is easier for pirates to download it for free than to pay any amount of money.

And DRM or not some people will always find an excuse to pirate.

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MFDOOM1983

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#76 MFDOOM1983
Member since 2010 • 8465 Posts

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeas
How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?

If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money.

Because it's free and there's no harm in downloading a game(for the pirate) that's only a few hundred MBs. I download quite a few games(legally) that I have no intention of playing in the foreseeable future because they're on sale. Besides, this developer loses nothing when I person pirates their game. If they were physical copies, sure.

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#77 Rocker6
Member since 2009 • 13358 Posts

Developers don't move to console because of piracy, if you beleive that then you're an idiot.

They move to console because game development costs are increasing so they need to reach as many platforms as possible to reclaim as much money as possible to keep the development of future games going.

mrfrosty151986

Correct, also, its laughable to say only PC orriented devs are expanding towards consoles. Many third-party console orriented devs are also expanding towards the PC, as it's in everyone's best interest to maximize the potential market base...

At this rate, in the near future, only first-party developers strongly funded by console vendors will be making exclusive games, and chances are, after a while, their numbers will also start declining sharply. Almost everyone will go full multiplat eventually, and I as a consumer like that direction...

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#78 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...

Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...

Rocker6

I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.

True, they earned you nothing, but chances are, making those people pay for the game is nearly impossible, as they simply don't want to do it...

Also, publishers often have a very wrong way of looking at piracy, instead of trying to give those people a reason to buy the game, they insist on alienating honest consumers with complicated DRM schemes which can often get in the way of the enjoyment...

I completely agree about DRM and other anti-piracy measures that hurt consumers. It's a shame that the reason those measures are even in place are because of fear of rampant piracy -- which may or may not exist for that title. But the issue is that in other industries if someone didn't want your product for the price you're offering, they simply don't buy it or wait until it reaches a price point they will buy it at. In entertainment industries, people refuse to buy it at the suggested price point, but can still download it and enjoy it for free. So there's a lot of loss there for publisher/developer, even if the pirate was never going to buy the game to begin with. So you're caught in this odd limbo of is it better to have people playing the game on your dime -- which at least gives it exposure and an audience -- or not buying it at all and waiting for a better price point (and it could be months before a Steam sale, or you might end up giving it away free like THQ basically did with the Humble Bundle). If I'm a publisher, I prefer option B because I have bills to pay, goals to meet and I need to keep my studios running -- I need money. It's a tricky sea to navigate, but ultimately you have to look at it with a bottom line approach. Regardless of if the pirates who downloaded it were ever going to really buy your product, they got it free and that's a sale lost because that's one person playing your game for absolutely nothing. But like you said...how do you get people to buy something they don't want to buy?
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DontGetBigIdeas

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#79 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?MFDOOM1983

If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money.

Because it's free and there's no harm in downloading a game(for the pirate) that's only a few hundred MBs. I download quite a few games(legally) that I have no intention of playing in the foreseeable future because they're on sale. Besides, this developer loses nothing when I person pirates their game. If they were physical copies, sure.

No, the publisher loses money. The developer gets paid to make the game, the publisher finances it and has to pay those bills. So a pirated copy is one less game sale helping pay those bills. If the publisher can't pay development fees, then they can either not make anymore games from studio and shutter it, or bite the losses and move on to their next project. Somebody gets affected and it's naive to think that piracy doesn't hurt any industry.
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#80 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts
haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :D
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#81 deangallop
Member since 2004 • 3811 Posts

Bought this game day 1 and didn't regret a penny of the purchase.

As long as pirates know that they are leeches who are less of a gamer than the casuals who only buy a game a year and that they are the cause of the very thing they so loudly opose ( games being made specifically for consoles.)

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#82 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :Dfreedomfreak

:D

I love Christmas, but I also love blasting nazis with tanks. This combines the best of both worlds ^^

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#83 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :DR4gn4r0k

:D

I love Christmas, but I also love blasting nazis with tanks. This combines the best of both worlds ^^

Had to turn on sigs to see it. I approve, it's awesome!
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#84 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

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MFDOOM1983

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#85 MFDOOM1983
Member since 2010 • 8465 Posts

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

ShadowMoses900
Actually this is coming from the publisher. Many people have already stated that the dev was helping people who pirated the game and even patched the cracked copy.
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#86 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

ShadowMoses900

This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.

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#87 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

Had to turn on sigs to see it. I approve, it's awesome!DontGetBigIdeas

Thanks, so far I've been getting a lot of positive feedback so I'm going to do more sigs I think:)

My paint skills aren't as bad as I thought, hehe

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#88 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

ShadowMoses900

SOPA ?

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#89 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :DR4gn4r0k

:D

I love Christmas, but I also love blasting nazis with tanks. This combines the best of both worlds ^^

Yeah, it definitely does. Sweet :D
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#90 DontGetBigIdeas
Member since 2012 • 252 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

R4gn4r0k

SOPA ?

The problem with SOPA is that it was so intrusive and open ended that people who were doing no wrong could get in trouble. It was a horribly written bill.
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R4gn4r0k

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#91 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

Yeah, it definitely does. Sweet :Dfreedomfreak

Can't wait for your christmas themed sig ^^

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lostrib

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#92 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

ShadowMoses900

There have been things done to stop it such as always online DRM, and those have mostly backfired on the companies that implement it. And for the most part DRM just ends up hurting the legitimate customers

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freedomfreak

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#93 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Yeah, it definitely does. Sweet :DR4gn4r0k

Can't wait for your christmas themed sig ^^

I have 2. One for Christmas and one for New Year.
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kuraimen

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#94 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
Put it on humble bundle and GOG = profit. CD Projekt sold a lot with Witcher and Witcher 2 even without DRM.
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#95 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

The problem with SOPA is that it was so intrusive and open ended that people who were doing no wrong could get in trouble. It was a horribly written bill.DontGetBigIdeas

and its something I would see shadowmoses propose that's why I asked:P

There is no way to stop piracy and not be intrusive and/or hurting a lot of innocents. All we have seen proposed or implemented (DRM) so far has been that way.

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#96 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

I have 2. One for Christmas and one for New Year.freedomfreak

Nice. Featuring hot women I presume:P

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#97 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]I have 2. One for Christmas and one for New Year.R4gn4r0k

Nice. Featuring hot women I presume:P

Of course not!
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ShadowMoses900

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#98 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.

Bebi_vegeta

This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.

Yes true, but it's a much bigger problem on PC. DRM doesn't seem to help either.

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#99 R4gn4r0k  Online
Member since 2004 • 46280 Posts

Of course not!freedomfreak

Yeah, that was kind of far-fetched of me:(

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#100 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Of course not!R4gn4r0k

Yeah, that was kind of far-fetched of me:(

Nah. It will be my goddess.