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[QUOTE="Sushiglutton"]Make a quality game that is cheap and hermits will buy it. That's what hermits told me.lundy86_4
Did anybody say that piracy would not happen were the quality game cheap enough?
ProbablySo much denial from PC gamers: "it sold well enough for a sequel, so those pirated copies doesn't matter."
Mr_BillGates
How do you think the TWO MAN DEVELOPER team feels? They are not even thirty years old, they've achieved an international release for a game they made in less than a year. It sold 130.000K, it has gotten amazing review scores and nominations from international gaming sites. In this day and age, that is argueably one of the best outcomes for an indie developer regardless of platform.
It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.DontGetBigIdeas
Perturbed by what?
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.N30F3N1X
Perturbed by what?
Freeloaders who think it's alright that everyone else should have to cover the cost of making the game? Lost opportunity for revenue (not 1-to-1 lost revenue) that they could invest in building their next game?[QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]
So much denial from PC gamers: "it sold well enough for a sequel, so those pirated copies doesn't matter."
DoomZaW
How do you think the TWO MAN DEVELOPER team feels? They are not even thirty years old, they've achieved an international release for a game they made in less than a year. It sold 130.000K, it has gotten amazing review scores and nominations from international gaming sites. In this day and age, that is argueably one of the best outcomes for an indie developer regardless of platform.
They even managed to patch the cracked version of the game. Meanwhile, fez is still waiting for a patch because it costs an astronomical amount of money for MS to press a button.[QUOTE="lowe0"]Freeloaders who think it's alright that everyone else should have to cover the cost of making the game? Lost opportunity for revenue (not 1-to-1 lost revenue) that they could invest in building their next game?N30F3N1X
So people that are not their costumers?
Correct. People who decline to do business with them, yet feel entitled to the benefits of that transaction anyway.[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.N30F3N1X
Lost sales? According to? You?
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas
Lost sales? According to? You?
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas
Lost sales? According to? You?
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand. What's needed to further that line of discussion is the probability of converting a pirate to a purchaser, in the absence of a pirate copy (or some other factor making piracy undesirable, such as truly effective DRM), less the probability of converting a pirate to a purchaser who does have a copy. That margin is where the lost revenue would come from. We don't have those two numbers, so it's hard to figure out the true cost of piracy.[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"]...lost sales for something you worked very hard on... But granted the Hotline devs aren't being super greedy, so good on them.DontGetBigIdeas
Lost sales? According to? You?
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...
Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...
awesome sigIts still like 45th in the top sellers on steam. And i don't see how you can link this to (PC pirates). Any PC would play this game and any nobody can go to a torrent site and download it. Even if this game was on console a console gamer could still just download it for PC because they can. Yet PC gamers would be blamed for all the Piracy.
Piracy is everywhere.
PCgameruk
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game? Because it's not necessarily a 0%-100% split. For example, we can accept from evidence in this thread that there are people who are willing to purchase the game, given the existence of a free copy. Why is it impossible to accept that there are also people who would be willing to purchase the game in the absence of said free copy?Lost sales? According to? You?
MFDOOM1983
[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game? If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money.Lost sales? According to? You?
MFDOOM1983
Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]
Lost sales? According to? You?
Rocker6
Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...
Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...
I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeasHow could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game? If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then?
Because they felt the game isn't worth the money asked, for example?
Most of those people would refuse to buy the game even if piracy was impossible, they would simply be in another hobby.
Developers don't move to console because of piracy, if you beleive that then you're an idiot.
They move to console because game development costs are increasing so they need to reach as many platforms as possible to reclaim as much money as possible to keep the development of future games going.
[QUOTE="Rocker6"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeas
Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...
Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...
I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.True, they earned you nothing, but chances are, making those people pay for the game is nearly impossible, as they simply don't want to do it...
Also, publishers often have a very wrong way of looking at piracy, instead of trying to give those people a reason to buy the game, they insist on alienating honest consumers with complicated DRM schemes which can often get in the way of the enjoyment...
It doesn't make it alright though. Piracy is everywhere and in every entertainment industry -- it's not going to go away. I for one am glad Hotline still sold well, but if I were in their shoes I'd be a little perturbed that my $10 game was pirated. It's not like these people are EA and forcing DRM on you at $60 a game.DontGetBigIdeas
Don't remember where I read it but price has zero influence on piracy. Even 99 cents games get pirated, because it is easier for pirates to download it for free than to pay any amount of money.
And DRM or not some people will always find an excuse to pirate.
[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"][QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"] Every pirated copy is a potential sale that didn't happen...that isn't hard to understand.DontGetBigIdeasHow could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game? If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money. Because it's free and there's no harm in downloading a game(for the pirate) that's only a few hundred MBs. I download quite a few games(legally) that I have no intention of playing in the foreseeable future because they're on sale. Besides, this developer loses nothing when I person pirates their game. If they were physical copies, sure.
Developers don't move to console because of piracy, if you beleive that then you're an idiot.
They move to console because game development costs are increasing so they need to reach as many platforms as possible to reclaim as much money as possible to keep the development of future games going.
mrfrosty151986
Correct, also, its laughable to say only PC orriented devs are expanding towards consoles. Many third-party console orriented devs are also expanding towards the PC, as it's in everyone's best interest to maximize the potential market base...
At this rate, in the near future, only first-party developers strongly funded by console vendors will be making exclusive games, and chances are, after a while, their numbers will also start declining sharply. Almost everyone will go full multiplat eventually, and I as a consumer like that direction...
I agree to an extent, but the simplistic way to look at it (which I took) is that if you had your game downloaded 500 times, but only 250 of those were paid downloads, you lost 250 sales. Now you can say that only 100 of those 250 pirated versions would have actually bought it, but the fact remains that 250 copies of the game earned you absolutely nothing. And that's what publishers are looking at, the bottom line.[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]
Completely incorrect. Some pirates simply never had an intention of buying the game, and even if there was no way to pirate it, they'd simply skip on it. They're freeloaders, they refuse to pay, and they won't change...
Some pirates on the other hand may've had the intention of buying the game in the first place, but something they considered off-putting happened, so they pirated it. Those people are the problem, and that's when potential sales are lost...
Rocker6
True, they earned you nothing, but chances are, making those people pay for the game is nearly impossible, as they simply don't want to do it...
Also, publishers often have a very wrong way of looking at piracy, instead of trying to give those people a reason to buy the game, they insist on alienating honest consumers with complicated DRM schemes which can often get in the way of the enjoyment...
I completely agree about DRM and other anti-piracy measures that hurt consumers. It's a shame that the reason those measures are even in place are because of fear of rampant piracy -- which may or may not exist for that title. But the issue is that in other industries if someone didn't want your product for the price you're offering, they simply don't buy it or wait until it reaches a price point they will buy it at. In entertainment industries, people refuse to buy it at the suggested price point, but can still download it and enjoy it for free. So there's a lot of loss there for publisher/developer, even if the pirate was never going to buy the game to begin with. So you're caught in this odd limbo of is it better to have people playing the game on your dime -- which at least gives it exposure and an audience -- or not buying it at all and waiting for a better price point (and it could be months before a Steam sale, or you might end up giving it away free like THQ basically did with the Humble Bundle). If I'm a publisher, I prefer option B because I have bills to pay, goals to meet and I need to keep my studios running -- I need money. It's a tricky sea to navigate, but ultimately you have to look at it with a bottom line approach. Regardless of if the pirates who downloaded it were ever going to really buy your product, they got it free and that's a sale lost because that's one person playing your game for absolutely nothing. But like you said...how do you get people to buy something they don't want to buy?If they had no intention of playing the game, why did the pirate it then? That question itself just goes around in circles though, so it's a moot point., but from a hardline stand point, every download that isn't sale is a lost sale. There's obvious factors that weigh into it, like you pointed out, but the simple fact is if half your downloads of a game are pirated, then you lost money. Because it's free and there's no harm in downloading a game(for the pirate) that's only a few hundred MBs. I download quite a few games(legally) that I have no intention of playing in the foreseeable future because they're on sale. Besides, this developer loses nothing when I person pirates their game. If they were physical copies, sure. No, the publisher loses money. The developer gets paid to make the game, the publisher finances it and has to pay those bills. So a pirated copy is one less game sale helping pay those bills. If the publisher can't pay development fees, then they can either not make anymore games from studio and shutter it, or bite the losses and move on to their next project. Somebody gets affected and it's naive to think that piracy doesn't hurt any industry.[QUOTE="DontGetBigIdeas"][QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]How could they lose a sale if the pirate never had the intention of buying the game?MFDOOM1983
Bought this game day 1 and didn't regret a penny of the purchase.
As long as pirates know that they are leeches who are less of a gamer than the casuals who only buy a game a year and that they are the cause of the very thing they so loudly opose ( games being made specifically for consoles.)
[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :DR4gn4r0k
:D
I love Christmas, but I also love blasting nazis with tanks. This combines the best of both worlds ^^
Had to turn on sigs to see it. I approve, it's awesome!So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
Actually this is coming from the publisher. Many people have already stated that the dev was helping people who pirated the game and even patched the cracked copy.So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
ShadowMoses900
So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
ShadowMoses900
This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.
[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]haha R4G. Your sig. Very subtle :DR4gn4r0k
:D
I love Christmas, but I also love blasting nazis with tanks. This combines the best of both worlds ^^
Yeah, it definitely does. Sweet :D[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]
So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
R4gn4r0k
SOPA ?
The problem with SOPA is that it was so intrusive and open ended that people who were doing no wrong could get in trouble. It was a horribly written bill.So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
ShadowMoses900
There have been things done to stop it such as always online DRM, and those have mostly backfired on the companies that implement it. And for the most part DRM just ends up hurting the legitimate customers
[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Yeah, it definitely does. Sweet :DR4gn4r0k
Can't wait for your christmas themed sig ^^
I have 2. One for Christmas and one for New Year.The problem with SOPA is that it was so intrusive and open ended that people who were doing no wrong could get in trouble. It was a horribly written bill.DontGetBigIdeas
and its something I would see shadowmoses propose that's why I asked:P
There is no way to stop piracy and not be intrusive and/or hurting a lot of innocents. All we have seen proposed or implemented (DRM) so far has been that way.
[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]I have 2. One for Christmas and one for New Year.R4gn4r0k
Nice. Featuring hot women I presume:P
Of course not![QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]
So much damage control....Look if a dev says it happened then it happened. Piray is a serious problem for the PC platform wether Hermits admit it or not, and there needs to be something done to stop it.
Bebi_vegeta
This goes for everything else, including console and handheld.
Yes true, but it's a much bigger problem on PC. DRM doesn't seem to help either.
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