Phil Spencer: Framerate is more important than resolution

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#1 Edited by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

Q: You're clearly a man who pays attention to fan feedback, and one of the growing noises among the community this year has been regarding '1080p-gate' and the constant recurrence of multiplatform titles running at a higher resolution on PS4 compared to Xbox One. You've done a great job of updating the platform on a monthly basis this year... do you feel you'll eventually get to a position where multiplatform games have total parity with you rival?

You know, and I'm not picking on you, but that's the first time I've been asked that question in months, and I always take how many times I get asked something as to how interesting it is to your readers. We have done a lot of work with our partners and we constantly evolve our development tools. We announced that Destiny will have the same resolution and framerate on Xbox One as PS4.

There are a long list of games. Reaching parity with our partners has been important. But in the end I don't want it to be about a number, because 1080p isn't some mythical, perfect resolution. Framerate to me is significantly more important to gameplay than resolution and the mix of those two which brings the right art style and freedom, whether it's on PlayStation or our platform.

I look at games like The Order on Sony's platform and they picked a different resolution - I like the resolution that they picked, I think it's interesting. I want to put the tools in the hands of the artists and not try to math it that there's some sort of math answer for the what the right resolution and frame rate is for a game - because there isn't.

Clearly some genres like with racing sims like Forza, hitting 1080p/60fps is important. So there are certain genres where there's an expectation, but there are also other genres where I'd rather use the cycles to put more effects on screen or better lighting. I've got to put the tools in the hands of developers.

SOURCE

See, personally, I agree. Resolution is ultimately meaningless, it doesn't affect gameplay at all, whereas framerate in fact does. I find Sony's emphasis on resolution to the exclusion of everything else to be troubling.

Having said that...

I also find Spencer's own comments regarding this pretty damn hypocritical, considering that so many major upcoming Xbox One games are not in fact running at 60 FPS. Most laughably, he calls out Forza as a game that he thinks should be at 60 frames, and Forza Horizon 2 is running at 30 frames per second to reach is 1080p resolution.

Still, at least he has his priorities right. Hopefully Sony starts focusing on framerate over resolution soon too. I don't care if it's 720p as long as it is 60FPS.

#2 Edited by Heirren (17308 posts) -

I agree that framerate is more important. However, I think consistency is most important. Huge dips in the framerate are the worst. Going from 60 to 15, or even 30 is bad. I makes for an ugly image and playability suffers. I remember playing pc games and knowing that the game would suffer when too much was going on..

#3 Posted by DEadliNE-Zero0 (2823 posts) -

IMHO, the really stupid part about the resolutiongate is that we don't actually have next gen only multiplats yet to assure if either console can actually run them at 1080p, besides EA UFC, but that's a poor example.

BTW, while i agree with your last phrase, i read that Halo 2 A may not be 1080p after all, but it'll still be 60fps. Also, in Halo 5's multiplayer trailer, they emphasize 60fps. Not sure about the resolution. But other examples, such as Sunset Overdrive at 30fps exist.

#4 Edited by ConanTheStoner (5589 posts) -

I agree. Depending on the genre it can be a real game changer.

inb4acraptonofpcgamersfeeltheneedtosaytheyhaveboth

#6 Edited by uninspiredcup (8920 posts) -

He'd say the exact opposite if he felt it benefited Microsoft in some way.

#7 Posted by scottpsfan14 (5569 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

He's say the exact opposite if he felt it benefited Microsoft in some way.

That's true. But he is correct.

#8 Posted by xhawk27 (7345 posts) -

I rather have 900p and more frame-rate G!

Than 1080p and 30fps do you agree!

Mo Pixels are nice but it's better to see twice!

PC you can have both but you need to pull off a heist to afford one!

#9 Edited by TheGuardian03 (21771 posts) -

@Desmonic said:

Agree with the idea. Framerate > Resolution. Though I'm not totally against the idea of also dropping to a rock solid 30fps and use the rest of the "juice" in making the game look better. IQ can also make a pretty big difference in certain games. Besides FPS, Racers and Fighters most games on console can still be enjoyed at 30fps.

Of course 60fps > 30fps, no debating that.

Also yeah, kinda silly comment by Phil since the XB1 has a hard time achieving either (minus this or that exception)...

Yeah. 60 fps all the way.

Playing Ground Zeroes at 60 fps is heaven.

#10 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (4491 posts) -
@charizard1605 said:

Clearly some genres like with racing sims like Forza, hitting 1080p/60fps is important. So there are certain genres where there's an expectation, but there are also other genres where I'd rather use the cycles to put more effects on screen or better lighting. I've got to put the tools in the hands of developers.


I also find Spencer's own comments regarding this pretty damn hypocritical, considering that so many major upcoming Xbox One games are not in fact running at 60 FPS. Most laughably, he calls out Forza as a game that he thinks should be at 60 frames, and Forza Horizon 2 is running at 30 frames per second to reach is 1080p resolution.

Practice what you preach, my friend.

He does. He's talking about Forza Motor Sport. That's the sim one. FH (the one where you can go off road without loss of speed or control) is the other one.

All FM games have been 60fps no matter the cost. FH games are arcade game which use the Forza name for branding only, they could call it anything they wanted to be honest.

#11 Edited by SolidTy (43723 posts) -

99% of the time the PS4 does both, it's all good in the hood Phil.

@TheGuardian03 said:

@Desmonic said:

Agree with the idea. Framerate > Resolution. Though I'm not totally against the idea of also dropping to a rock solid 30fps and use the rest of the "juice" in making the game look better. IQ can also make a pretty big difference in certain games. Besides FPS, Racers and Fighters most games on console can still be enjoyed at 30fps.

Of course 60fps > 30fps, no debating that.

Also yeah, kinda silly comment by Phil since the XB1 has a hard time achieving either (minus this or that exception)...

Yeah. 60 fps all the way.

Playing Ground Zeroes at 60 fps is heaven.

:) MGS FTW.

#12 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet: I would argue an arcade racer probably needs a higher framerate more than a racing sim. I might be wrong (I don't much have experience with racing sims, to be entirely honest), but arcade racers, I can safely say, benefit greatly from higher framerates.

#13 Posted by PsychoLemons (2111 posts) -

No surprise there.

#14 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4491 posts) -
@charizard1605 said:

@HalcyonScarlet: I would argue an arcade racer probably needs a higher framerate more than a racing sim. I might be wrong (I don't much have experience with racing sims, to be entirely honest), but arcade racers, I can safely say, benefit greatly from higher framerates.

I don't think many bother though. With arcade games, they usually push graphics quality higher and lock it at 30 fps, except for those awesome futuristic racers I miss so much (Wipeout, Extreme G and F-Zero). With sims i think they do it for accuracy, but they'll hold back on graphics quality for frame rate everytime. FM3 and 4 would have looked much better at 30fps.

#15 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet: Well, all I can say is, I would rather play Mario Kart, Sonic All Stars, Need For Speed, or Burnout, at 60FPS rather than 30FPS.

#16 Edited by GrenadeLauncher (5095 posts) -

A shame for Phil that the PS4 does both better 95% of the time.

#17 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4491 posts) -
@charizard1605 said:

@HalcyonScarlet: Well, all I can say is, I would rather play Mario Kart, Sonic All Stars, Need For Speed, or Burnout, at 60FPS rather than 30FPS.

I'd LOVE to play the new MK, it looks so awesome. I have the Sonic All Stars on my PC and it doesn't feel like 60fps. Is Burnout Paradise at 60fps, didn't feel it either? I might try it with the settings on low to see if that was my issue, but I don't think it was.

#18 Edited by scottpsfan14 (5569 posts) -
@charizard1605 said:

@HalcyonScarlet: I would argue an arcade racer probably needs a higher framerate more than a racing sim. I might be wrong (I don't much have experience with racing sims, to be entirely honest), but arcade racers, I can safely say, benefit greatly from higher framerates.

PGR3/4 were my fav racers on 360. They were 30fps. I play them today and they still feel very responsive. I'm sure Horizon 2 will be the same.

#19 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet: I don' think Sonic is 60 FPS (not on consoles, anyway, I wouldn't know about the PC version). Burnout Paradise, again, I haven't played the PC version so I don't know about that either, unfortunately.

But yes, Mario Kart 8 is amazing. It might be the purest game Nintendo has released in a very long time. It's certainly the best Mario Kart game in the series.

#20 Posted by xhawk27 (7345 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher said:

A shame for Phil that the PS4 does both better 95% of the time.

delusional much?

Infamous 30fps, Order 30fps, and I bet Uncharted 4 30fps.

#21 Posted by Sollet (7394 posts) -

Well it's not just because xbox one is struggling with resolutions or anything.

#23 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4491 posts) -
@Desmonic said:

@charizard1605: @HalcyonScarlet: Sonic Racing Transformed on PC is 60fps. And feels like a very, very different game due to that (versus the consoles I mean).

Also, I'd say any racer in general benefits from a solid 60fps frame rate. Be it sim, arcade, kart, whatever. It's just one of those genres that in which it makes a very substantial difference IMO.

That's true.

I have transformed on steam as well, but I'm still on the first. I know if I move on, I'll never play the first again.

#24 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet: The first one is so bad in comparison to Transformed lol. Just ditch it and move on, you won't regret it.

Plus, it's the closest to Mario Kart 8's glory that you can come xD

#25 Posted by ShepardCommandr (2735 posts) -

No

#26 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (1215 posts) -

They are both important.

/thread

#27 Edited by geniobastardo (1294 posts) -

and the Xone can't pull off either.

#28 Posted by remiks00 (1911 posts) -

He's right

#29 Posted by shadiezz2012 (2595 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

99% of the time the PS4 does both, it's all good in the hood Phil.

this guy gets it

#30 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@geniobastardo said:

and the Xone can't pull off either.

This is wrong.

@ShepardCommandr said:

No

And this.

@mr_huggles_dog said:

They are both important.

/thread

They can both be important (absolute scale), and one can still be more important than the other (relative scale).

#31 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (1215 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

They are both important.

/thread

They can both be important (absolute scale), and one can still be more important than the other (relative scale).

Well...sure...I mean....if you're making a game 1080p but has a framerate of like 10fps....coughGTAVcough.....then yeah...it would get annnoying.

But I think 1080p and 30 fps which a lot of games play at is fine. He's just damage controlling since the X1 can't do 1080p without it being an old engine or some lame excuse like that.

#32 Posted by nutcrackr (12632 posts) -

Def true, without framerate you have no gameplay

#33 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@charizard1605 said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

They are both important.

/thread

They can both be important (absolute scale), and one can still be more important than the other (relative scale).

Well...sure...I mean....if you're making a game 1080p but has a framerate of like 10fps....coughGTAVcough.....then yeah...it would get annnoying.

But I think 1080p and 30 fps which a lot of games play at is fine. He's just damage controlling since the X1 can't do 1080p without it being an old engine or some lame excuse like that.

Well, it depends on the game. A racing game? I would disagree. Shooter? Ditto. Fighter? Same. But, say, a game like The Order, or Ryse? Sure, go ahead, make them 30FPS and 'cinematic.' But most games benefit from higher framerates, and if you had to priotise one, I would rather you prioritise framerate.

#34 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13638 posts) -

Framerate is the only time I care about Graphics.

#35 Posted by faizan_faizan (7866 posts) -

He himself probably doesn't know half the stuff he talks about. But I concur.

#36 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (1215 posts) -

@charizard1605: I thought the same thing about racing games...but Driveclub is suppose to be 30fps and I've been told it's more arcady....so it's not the same. I guess I'll get a taste of 30fps and racing soon enough and find out for myself.

#37 Posted by charizard1605 (58136 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@charizard1605: I thought the same thing about racing games...but Driveclub is suppose to be 30fps and I've been told it's more arcady....so it's not the same. I guess I'll get a taste of 30fps and racing soon enough and find out for myself.

Well, see, DriveClub being 30FPS is precisely the reason I'm not all that hot on it.

If you want to see what an arcadey 30FPS racer feels like, check out NFS: Rivals released last year. Great game let down by the framerate.

#38 Posted by scatteh316 (4960 posts) -

PS4 delivers higher resolution and higher frame rates.... Cows can have both but not lemmings.

#39 Posted by delta3074 (18410 posts) -

Of course it is, higher framerates mean less controller Lag, i would rather have a lower resolution than Low framerates that cause controller Lag.

#40 Posted by Snugenz (11890 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:

They are both important.

/thread

Indeed so get a PC, otherwise settle for one or the other on consoles (in most cases).

#41 Posted by delta3074 (18410 posts) -

Of course it is, higher framerates mean less controller Lag, i would rather have a lower resolution than Low framerates that cause controller Lag.

@GrenadeLauncher said:

A shame for Phil that the PS4 does both better 95% of the time.

Not really, i doubt he even cares, he probably earns more money in a week than you earn in a year, the only people this really bothers is SONY drones, nobody else really cares in the real world.

#42 Edited by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

"Reaching parity with our partners"...

Hmmm...

#43 Edited by Legend002 (7209 posts) -

Took me 2 minutes. ^

#44 Posted by Sollet (7394 posts) -

@delta3074 said:

Of course it is, higher framerates mean less controller Lag, i would rather have a lower resolution than Low framerates that cause controller Lag.

@GrenadeLauncher said:

A shame for Phil that the PS4 does both better 95% of the time.

Not really, i doubt he even cares, he probably earns more money in a week than you earn in a year, the only people this really bothers is SONY drones, nobody else really cares in the real world.

Cool story, what does that have to do with anything he said?

How exactly is high salary benefiting the resolution and frame rate subject?

#46 Posted by tormentos (18325 posts) -

He is right alto he is just running damage control,the PS4 will always runs at faster frame than the xbox one when both are on the same resolution.

He should not go there after killing Kinect reservation in order to stop games from coming in 720p on xbox one resolution was inportant for them.

@xhawk27 said:

@GrenadeLauncher said:

A shame for Phil that the PS4 does both better 95% of the time.

delusional much?

Infamous 30fps, Order 30fps, and I bet Uncharted 4 30fps.

Did he say 100% of the times.?

#47 Posted by silversix_ (14784 posts) -

They have no fps advantage so why even bringing that up? The Bones 'custom' lol resolution is like playing games or watching movies in 480p, just why? Better or should i say much better options are available for the same price so f*ck yo couch, Phil!

#48 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5036 posts) -

@Legend002 said:

Took me 2 minutes. ^

haha nice

#50 Posted by intotheminx (703 posts) -

I 100% agree. Fighting games, racers, and the like should try to hit 60 fps, though some racers at 30 fps felt fine to me. Nothing is wrong with a 30 fps lock on single player games imo. It feels fine, multiplayer is different though.