PC CONSOLE graphical dispute has got to end.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#151 Posted by clyde46 (43644 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Using BF4 on PS4 for comparison is a terrible idea, it's not even close to be best looking game on that platform. I've yet to see a PC game looking better than this tho.

Shame story is boring as hell.

#152 Posted by lundy86_4 (42661 posts) -

The PS4 and xbox one are consoles they are on the same market,PC are not period and has been like this since the 70's when the console market started.

PC will always have better graphics is not like consoles get a new GPU every year,they are also more expensive to.

The PS4 and xbox one are 2 consoles that compete in the same category of product further more one is cheaper and stronger so yeah console comparison will always happen,PC is a different market just like Cell Phones and PC are a different market to.

Oh and fact still stand for $399 you can't beat the PS4 graphically on PC period.

PC is part of System Wars. TC is saying that we shouldn't be debating it, which is ridiculous, as that is what System Wars is built upon... System Vs. System.

#153 Posted by lundy86_4 (42661 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Using BF4 on PS4 for comparison is a terrible idea, it's not even close to be best looking game on that platform. I've yet to see a PC game looking better than this tho.

I challenge you to post as many Shadow Fall pictures in a single post as you can.

#154 Posted by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3672 posts) -

So...

  • There's no difference between 2560x1440 and 1600x900?
  • No difference between 144FPS and 60FPS?
  • No difference between 60FPS and 30FPS?

But...

  • 1600x900 is A LOT better than 1280x720?...
  • 60FPS is SOO MUCH smoother than 50FPS?...

You guys have some seriously selective eye sight.

#155 Edited by CrownKingArthur (3784 posts) -

So...

  • There's no difference between 2560x1440 and 1600x900?
  • No difference between 144FPS and 60FPS?
  • No difference between 60FPS and 30FPS?

But...

  • 1600x900 is A LOT better than 1280x720?...
  • 60FPS is SOO MUCH smoother than 50FPS?...

You guys have some seriously selective eye sight.

that's consolitis for you.

#156 Edited by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3672 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

BF4 on consoles does not run at 1080p.

BF4 on most PCs does not run at 1080p....... In fact in most cases BF4 just doesn't run period.

So true... My mothers 2006 non gaming pre built PC that I got for them from Curry's for £450 really can't run BF4.

So much for PC's being superior.

#157 Posted by evildead6789 (6921 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Using BF4 on PS4 for comparison is a terrible idea, it's not even close to be best looking game on that platform. I've yet to see a PC game looking better than this tho.

Well these are screenshots from metro last light and crysis 3, oh and these are previous gen games...

Thief looks better on the pc already, in a few years the ps4 's gonna be a dinosaur.

#158 Posted by topgunmv (10057 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Using BF4 on PS4 for comparison is a terrible idea, it's not even close to be best looking game on that platform. I've yet to see a PC game looking better than this tho.

Crysis 3.

That was easy.

#159 Posted by gpuking (2656 posts) -

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

#160 Posted by CrownKingArthur (3784 posts) -

killzone shadow fall? you mean that game which uses a smelly vertical interlace in multiplayer? with smelly motion prediction?

great example for how powerful the ps4 is, laugh out loud.

#161 Posted by m3dude1 (838 posts) -

there are no pc games that stand up to killzone, infamous, or ryse. i dont know of any coming out this year that will either.

#162 Edited by evildead6789 (6921 posts) -

@gpuking said:

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

up is crysis 3, down is crysis 1, that's lighting, killzone looks like a 10 year old pc game

l

#163 Posted by LJS9502_basic (149522 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@pelvist said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@pelvist: No shit Captain Obvious. But not all gaming PCs are created equally. And that's a fact.

Not all consoles are created equally either, your point?

That's just stupid. The console from x manufacturer in the same generation IS created equal.

And how in the world does that have any bearing on which platform has the best graphics? The PC versions are best and it doesn't matter if every PC in the world can't max them out right now. There are many millions of PC gamers with enthusiast level rigs that can easily play these games at console-beating settings. Not to mention that even the people with weaker PCs can upgrade any time they like and get the full potential out of the PC games they already own.

The argument is stupid. A version being better than another is not dependent on the number of people that can play it. Does Killzone Shadow Fall look worse than Killzone 3 simply because fewer people own PS4s than PS3s? When I am enjoying my games with the high quality graphics and performance I get on my PC do you think I give a shit how many people can or can't play those games at the same quality levels?

Are you having a problem following the conversation?

#164 Edited by AzatiS (6995 posts) -

@planbfreak4eva said:

@lostrib: do you game with screenshots or on an actual display? you wont see a difference between the the pc or ps4 version unless you put 2 identical tvs and look at both. hence why i said pc looks marginally better.

that is good to know. but in this thread we are or i am, talking just the graphics. we are not talking keyboards, dualshocks, windows and what not.

Sorry but have you seen BF games on really high settings and stable 1080p at 60fps or even more than that !! Well theres no comparison bro. Sorry but there isnt. You think PS4 runs at ultra settings , true HD and stable 60fps ? Not even close. And dont forget that PCs nowdays gaming higher than that. I gaming on 1200p for example and ill upgrade when 4K will be viable ( 2-3 years maybe? we will see ).

Dont try to compare PC graphics with consoles. Even if they seem close to you they arent and the gap will keep getting bigger every 2-3 months. In a year or 2... You wont even be able to think to compare PC graphics with that of a console. ( Not that you can now when an 150$ GPU can play games at 1080p )

#165 Posted by topgunmv (10057 posts) -

@gpuking said:

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

up is crysis 3, down is crysis 1, that's lighting, killzone looks like a 10 year old pc game

l

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

#166 Posted by Jankarcop (8827 posts) -

Crysis3 and Metro2 on ultra look better than KZ.

#167 Edited by kalipekona (2296 posts) -

@BeardMaster said:

@Sharp-Shooter89 said:

@BeardMaster said:

@Sharp-Shooter89 said:

@BeardMaster: lol, but cars retain their value? lol, yet the car enthusiast community respect the cars that have turbo kits, header back exhausts even tho it costs thousands and the value gets dimished almost instantly, every single thing i said apart from the collections has dimishing value, including a set of headphones.

you also didnt mention the fact that spending 800+ on a gaming rig rather than 500 dollars is all up to the user, if the user wants to spend 800 dollars or more for a gaming computer just tells me he is pasionate about having the best hardware for playing the games at the best, not sure why this is looked down upon, again consolists love to say spending money on a pc is "a waste of money" or as you said "money thrown away" because you can get cheaper more inferior version on a console, and that value diminishes over time especially on electronics which is true, thats not going to stop pasion, sorry

ever tried selling a car with a modified turbo to a dealer? they are not going to give you more money because you have a turbo, infact they will give you much less.

No cant say i have. I usually buy cheap economy cars with good mileage. Just as i usually buy budget rigs rather than high end PCs. Consoles and gaming in general is a waste of money, just depends how much money people are willing to waste... i was simply pointing out alot of the things you listed werent directly comparable to gaming.

im the same way, i do not have a strong passion for cars, but i can atleast appreciate a car enthusiast spending thousands of dollars and time to turn there eco car into something thats faster than a car that would of costed 30-40k,

but when a pc gamer, or any gamer for that matter spends 300 for a video card upgrade for better experience console gamers say LOL I DONT HAVE TO UPGRADE MY CONSOLE, SURE IM PLAYING AT 720p but atleast im saving money!!!

yet pc gamers say yeah but alteast i have better graphics and a better overall experience

console elite: BUH BUH MORE EXPENSIVE LOLS

Something to be said for saving though, when the housing market crashed i realized it would be a great time to buy a home... only to look at my bank account and realize i needed at least another 10 grand in there for a down payment/closing costs to get a decent house. Then looking around my 1 bedroom apartment filled with high end electronics, realized... "man i wish i didnt waste so much money on this crap." So yea these days im a miser who will gladly game at 720p, but doing so from the comfort of my own home. Should never underestimate the value of savings my friend ;)

Everybody has different values and priorities, not to mention different levels of income. If someone is happy living in an apartment but getting to own lots of high end electronics and gaming systems then who are we to look down on their happiness and judge them negatively for it?

Then there are people that have sufficient income to own a house and have all the high end audio/video gear and gaming systems that they enjoy. Again, who are we to judge?

Some people would consider buying a woman a diamond ring to be a waste. Or a vacation to another country. We don't all have the same values, and this is why your argument is faulty.

#169 Edited by evildead6789 (6921 posts) -

@topgunmv said:
@evildead6789 said:

@gpuking said:

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

up is crysis 3, down is crysis 1, that's lighting, killzone looks like a 10 year old pc game

l

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

purple godrays?

Do realize that pic is from crysis 1, released in 2007. Killzone is release in 2013. Do you really want me to show you crysis 3 lightning, I haven't because I'm scared you'll kill yourself because you spend your money on a ps4.

#170 Edited by Vaasman (11139 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

speaking of TVs. Is it even possible to buy a 720p TV anymore? I mean given that graphics dont matter and all.

Yes, I saw plenty last time I was at Best Buy, but they are usually for smaller televisions these days, like around the 15-25 inch range.

#171 Edited by melonfarmerz (1012 posts) -

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

To be honest, PS4 guys have a pretty good looking game in SF. However, trying to compare to PC is kind of silly. KZ SF doesn't even run in 1080p.

Games from 2007, with an ENB and some textures, look equal and better to what consoles have in 2014.

Crysis (2007)

GTA IV (2008)

Skyrim (2011)

#172 Posted by cainetao11 (15910 posts) -

@lostrib: do you game with screenshots or on an actual display? you wont see a difference between the the pc or ps4 version unless you put 2 identical tvs and look at both. hence why i said pc looks marginally better.

that is good to know. but in this thread we are or i am, talking just the graphics. we are not talking keyboards, dualshocks, windows and what not.

Yeah but the same can be said about PS4 to X1 then 1080-900-720. Difference is same.

#173 Edited by lostrib (31733 posts) -

@topgunmv said:

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

To be honest, PS4 guys have a pretty good looking game in SF. However, trying to compare to PC is kind of silly. KZ SF doesn't even run in 1080p.

The SP runs in 1080p

#174 Edited by melonfarmerz (1012 posts) -

@lostrib: yup but the multiplayer runs on the weirdest res ever

Also, honest question, whats the frame rate on SF?

#175 Posted by topgunmv (10057 posts) -

@topgunmv said:
@evildead6789 said:

@gpuking said:

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

up is crysis 3, down is crysis 1, that's lighting, killzone looks like a 10 year old pc game

l

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

purple godrays?

Do realize that pic is from crysis 1, released in 2007. Killzone is release in 2013. Do you really want me to show you crysis 3 lightning, I haven't because I'm scared you'll kill yourself because you spend your money on a ps4.

You might want to try reading my previous posts in this thread to avoid sounding any further brain damaged.

#176 Posted by lostrib (31733 posts) -

@lostrib: yup but the multiplayer runs on the weirdest res ever

Also, honest question, whats the frame rate on SF?

30 for SP, and 40-60 for MP I think

#177 Posted by topgunmv (10057 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@lostrib: yup but the multiplayer runs on the weirdest res ever

Also, honest question, whats the frame rate on SF?

30 for SP, and 40-60 for MP I think

I think it's between 30-low 40's for single player if you leave the lock framerate option off.

#178 Posted by MikeMoose (3074 posts) -

PC Gaming: You play to brag about graphics

Console gaming: You play games to play games

Can we end this pointless debate now?

#179 Edited by evildead6789 (6921 posts) -

@topgunmv said:

@evildead6789 said:

@topgunmv said:
@evildead6789 said:

@gpuking said:

How are they looking better? The particles, reflection and lighting in SF look better even.

up is crysis 3, down is crysis 1, that's lighting, killzone looks like a 10 year old pc game

l

Lets not be disingenuous now, killzone's lighting looks fine.

purple godrays?

Do realize that pic is from crysis 1, released in 2007. Killzone is release in 2013. Do you really want me to show you crysis 3 lightning, I haven't because I'm scared you'll kill yourself because you spend your money on a ps4.

You might want to try reading my previous posts in this thread to avoid sounding any further brain damaged.

the second one from above is artwork lol, the other two weren't really high res pics, these are

#180 Edited by the_bi99man (11028 posts) -

@lostrib: do you game with screenshots or on an actual display? you wont see a difference between the the pc or ps4 version

Yes you will.

Now stop being butthurt.

#181 Posted by evildead6789 (6921 posts) -

@planbfreak4eva said:

@lostrib: do you game with screenshots or on an actual display? you wont see a difference between the the pc or ps4 version

Yes you will.

Now stop being butthurt.

and the ps4 just released, by 2017 they probably gonna shut down this board

or maybe... nintendo, I heard they're making a new console, a very powerfull one

#182 Posted by gpuking (2656 posts) -

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

#183 Edited by 04dcarraher (18992 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

So your impressed with over saturated and Blurry backdrops but not with Crysis 3's detail that dwarf's killzone's..... bias much?

#184 Posted by lostrib (31733 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

That's because you're a stupid fanboy who has been waging a one man war of dumbassery for some time now

#185 Edited by lingo56 (1 posts) -

@FreedomFreeLife: lol PS4 version looks pretty bad, not only that but because most people use 1080p screens so the image gets streched making the pixels glare out even more. Oh well I guess if that's all you want that's all you want. After playing on my PS3 I can say that the lack of resolution becomes pretty trivial if you just focus on the game rather than the pixels on the screen. Then add to that how far you are from your tv aaaaand there's almost 0 difference when it comes to pixel density :p. Personally I'd still never play an FPS on a console, you can't aim for crap, not even sure how I played CoD on my PS3 back when I gamed on console.

#186 Posted by Dswiss (69 posts) -

So bf4 on a 500$ pc is better than bf4 on the consoles?

#187 Edited by scatteh316 (4750 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

Those are not impressive at all..... And last generation geometry? KZ:SF has loads of that...

#188 Posted by zeeshanhaider (2207 posts) -
@lostrib said:

@gpuking said:

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

That's because you're a stupid fanboy who has been waging a one man war of dumbassery for some time now

Oh don't be harsh on him. He has a $10 trillion TV setup (though still 1080p and not even 4K) so he must be telling the truth. May be that setup has some magical powers that make 900pStation games look better than PC games.

#189 Edited by Sharp-Shooter89 (112 posts) -

@kalipekona:

@kalipekona said:

@BeardMaster said:

@Sharp-Shooter89 said:

@BeardMaster said:

@Sharp-Shooter89 said:

@BeardMaster: lol, but cars retain their value? lol, yet the car enthusiast community respect the cars that have turbo kits, header back exhausts even tho it costs thousands and the value gets dimished almost instantly, every single thing i said apart from the collections has dimishing value, including a set of headphones.

you also didnt mention the fact that spending 800+ on a gaming rig rather than 500 dollars is all up to the user, if the user wants to spend 800 dollars or more for a gaming computer just tells me he is pasionate about having the best hardware for playing the games at the best, not sure why this is looked down upon, again consolists love to say spending money on a pc is "a waste of money" or as you said "money thrown away" because you can get cheaper more inferior version on a console, and that value diminishes over time especially on electronics which is true, thats not going to stop pasion, sorry

ever tried selling a car with a modified turbo to a dealer? they are not going to give you more money because you have a turbo, infact they will give you much less.

No cant say i have. I usually buy cheap economy cars with good mileage. Just as i usually buy budget rigs rather than high end PCs. Consoles and gaming in general is a waste of money, just depends how much money people are willing to waste... i was simply pointing out alot of the things you listed werent directly comparable to gaming.

im the same way, i do not have a strong passion for cars, but i can atleast appreciate a car enthusiast spending thousands of dollars and time to turn there eco car into something thats faster than a car that would of costed 30-40k,

but when a pc gamer, or any gamer for that matter spends 300 for a video card upgrade for better experience console gamers say LOL I DONT HAVE TO UPGRADE MY CONSOLE, SURE IM PLAYING AT 720p but atleast im saving money!!!

yet pc gamers say yeah but alteast i have better graphics and a better overall experience

console elite: BUH BUH MORE EXPENSIVE LOLS

Something to be said for saving though, when the housing market crashed i realized it would be a great time to buy a home... only to look at my bank account and realize i needed at least another 10 grand in there for a down payment/closing costs to get a decent house. Then looking around my 1 bedroom apartment filled with high end electronics, realized... "man i wish i didnt waste so much money on this crap." So yea these days im a miser who will gladly game at 720p, but doing so from the comfort of my own home. Should never underestimate the value of savings my friend ;)

Everybody has different values and priorities, not to mention different levels of income. If someone is happy living in an apartment but getting to own lots of high end electronics and gaming systems then who are we to look down on their happiness and judge them negatively for it?

Then there are people that have sufficient income to own a house and have all the high end audio/video gear and gaming systems that they enjoy. Again, who are we to judge?

Some people would consider buying a woman a diamond ring to be a waste. Or a vacation to another country. We don't all have the same values, and this is why your argument is faulty.

exactly my point, i do respect beard's priorities tho, however, as i said before, just because im not into something like cars that much doesnt mean i think a car enthusiast is wasting his money on a turbo, yet we get console gamers in here saying PC gaming is too expensive and waste of money when it clearly has the best version of mutilates available, again gaming is the only hobby that i can think of where when it comes to consolites, if your a pc gamer, you wasted your money.

imo i do think diamond rings are a waste, instead get her a birthstone ring, i think its more thoughtful, way cheaper, and imo looks better, but thats just my opinion.

looking at the killzone images in full screen on another tab, the game looks good, it also has jaggies and distant geometry looks bad, sorry seen better in metro last light on my pc

#190 Edited by Sharp-Shooter89 (112 posts) -

PC Gaming: You play to brag about graphics

Console gaming: You play games to play games

Can we end this pointless debate now?

yet when a pc gamer shows a INDIE game, or claims it has the largest selection of indie titles available consolites say stuff like "LOL INDIE" or "LOL SPEND 3000 DOLLARZ ON COMPUTERZ TO PLAY INDIE NICE GRAPICZ HERMITS"

#191 Edited by FreedomFreeLife (1860 posts) -

@Dswiss said:

So bf4 on a 500$ pc is better than bf4 on the consoles?

Yes

#192 Edited by lostrib (31733 posts) -

@MikeMoose said:

PC Gaming: You play to brag about graphics

Console gaming: You play games to play games

Can we end this pointless debate now?

Then why have there been so many threads with console gamers comparing graphics?

#193 Posted by Zaraxius (205 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@planbfreak4eva said:

@lostrib said:

Well for starters BF4 doesn't run at 1080p on PS4

well 900p then. you telling me you can see so much difference between the 2?

in a direct comparison of screenshots? they look different

But I would never choose to play a FPS on console so it doesn't matter to me. I don't play on PC just because it has better graphics

Is it because you feel sad knowing you have no one willing to play with you in all the couch multiplayer console games, thus never getting the full experience of console games?

I guess the limited scope of PC games might make the lonely feel better.

#194 Edited by lostrib (31733 posts) -

@zaraxius said:

@lostrib said:

@planbfreak4eva said:

@lostrib said:

Well for starters BF4 doesn't run at 1080p on PS4

well 900p then. you telling me you can see so much difference between the 2?

in a direct comparison of screenshots? they look different

But I would never choose to play a FPS on console so it doesn't matter to me. I don't play on PC just because it has better graphics

Is it because you feel sad knowing you have no one willing to play with you in all the couch multiplayer console games, thus never getting the full experience of console games?

I guess the limited scope of PC games might make the lonely feel better.

No, that is not the reason at all.

But seriously, what is your malfunction?

#195 Posted by MikeMoose (3074 posts) -

@MikeMoose said:

PC Gaming: You play to brag about graphics

Console gaming: You play games to play games

Can we end this pointless debate now?

yet when a pc gamer shows a INDIE game, or claims it has the largest selection of indie titles available consolites say stuff like "LOL INDIE" or "LOL SPEND 3000 DOLLARZ ON COMPUTERZ TO PLAY INDIE NICE GRAPICZ HERMITS"

They say that because it's funny when PC gamers brag about their hardware, yet the only games they have to brag about are ones I can play on my laptop that don't even utilize the 1337 hardware they supposedly have.

#196 Posted by lostrib (31733 posts) -
#197 Posted by Snugenz (11458 posts) -

@gpuking said:

Non of the Crysis 3 pics here impress me, I see last gen geometry everywhere coated with some high res textures. I find these tons more nextgen like.

That's because you're a huge insecure fanboy that has some incredibly wierd fetish/obsession with KZ screenshots.

I own both games (Crysis 3 and KZ:SF) and while KZ:SF is a gorgeous console game, it just doesnt compare to Crysis 3 (though they both have about as fun gameplay as each other) graphically. With KZ:SF on my 40" TV beside Crysis 3 running at Very High on my PC Crysis wins hands down in the "purdy graphix" department.

I know i repeated my point above, i did that in the hope that maybe the truth will finally sink into your simple little fanboy brain for once.

#198 Edited by kalipekona (2296 posts) -

@m3dude1 said:

there are no pc games that stand up to killzone, infamous, or ryse. i dont know of any coming out this year that will either.

Haha who are you? Member since 2007 and only 6 posts? Strange. Anyway, you are exaggerating quite a bit there.

Pretty nice looking games for sure. I own Killzone Shadow Fall and I am going to be getting Infamous Second Son when it comes out. Now let's look at screen captures of some of my PC games.

I also own graphics champions like Battlefield 4, Metro Last Light and The Witcher 2, but I decided to focus more on games that don't usually get the spotlight. Even then I think the PC stands up just fine. Infamous Second Son has really fantastic character models and great use of color, but in terms of basic things like textures and lighting it isn't particularly amazing.

#199 Edited by Shielder7 (4698 posts) -

@Snugenz said:

@Shielder7 said:

1. How many PC gamers do you know that don't own a monitor? K I thought so.

2. see above

3. No it's not

4.BS cheap Keyboards and mouse don't last very long and any hermit worth his sault will tell you you need at the very least a 3-4 button mouse.

5. Really? How are you supposed to download your games off Steam if you have no internet access you tard? You hermits are really getting as dumb as Lemmings. Consoles are mostly physical copies so technically I don't need to download anything unlike Steam, Origin users

1. It doesn't matter (even though there's even one or two in this very thread) the option is there to use a HDTV with a new PC.

3. It most certainly is, in a comparison between two objects you look for parity, to achieve parity in this comparison you have to be able to play online games on them, to do that on consoles you need to pay for the subscription.

4. No BS, they last as long as gamepads (look up issues with the DS4 for example) and you in no way need more than the standard mouse to get by in gaming, in fact there's still a ton of games that don't support anymore than the standard mouse buttons.

5. You need to go online on consoles for day 1 patches etc. and you don't need to be always online to use services like Steam and Origin once you own those games so...

You'd think you'd actually have some solid points to argue with, but no it's all shit.

1. Yeah it all of a sudden doesn't matter when you're proven wrong. When you buy a PC you also buy a Monitor if you don't already have one period.

3. You don't have to buy the subscription, there are far far more people without Xbox live and PSN+ who own a console than who own a PC without a monitor. The difference besides the number gap is you don't have to drag your PC over to your HDTV to not have PSN+ or Live. I'm one of them.

4. Yes BS any hermit worth his salt will tell you this.

5. OMG it's like talking to a wall how dense are you hermits? If you didn't have internet Sony sent you a disc and you don't need day one updates for games to play them, they will work out of the box.

Also you need internet access to download the games off of Steam and Origin so Yes you do need internet access to originally download the games off of Steam. Trying to suggest otherwise makes you look even stupider.

#200 Posted by kipsta77 (900 posts) -

Okay. PC will always have better graphics then consoles.

The end. Thank you and goodnight.