P2M - The best game of Gen7, feathers will be rufffled

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#1 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

P2m Presents -

The Game of the Generation

Animal, Heil and TheEroica argue their final selections for the very best game of generation 7.

#2 Posted by LadyBlue (3927 posts) -

If it were up to me it would be either SMG2, Demon Souls, Skyward Sword, UC2 or Last of US.

Don't think people will care much about the decision, they've moved on to the next gen battlefield.

#3 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@ladyblue said:

If it were up to me it would be either SMG2, Demon Souls, Skyward Sword, UC2 or Last of US.

Don't think people will care much about the decision, they've moved on to the next gen battlefield.

last gen isn't even close to over though... people still care about the results of last gen, though I do agree that our present focus is on whats around the corner.

#4 Posted by LadyBlue (3927 posts) -

@ladyblue said:

If it were up to me it would be either SMG2, Demon Souls, Skyward Sword, UC2 or Last of US.

Don't think people will care much about the decision, they've moved on to the next gen battlefield.

last gen isn't even close to over though... people still care about the results of last gen, though I do agree that our present focus is on whats around the corner.

Don't get me wrong some still care about it. I do believe it would've caused a major ruckus a year ago.

I'll check it out soon so no spoilers. :P

#5 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4523 posts) -

dark souls one won, juan

#6 Edited by getyeryayasout (7221 posts) -

I've been slippin' and haven't listened in a while. Will post back with complaints and criticisms after giving a listen. :P

Once again, thanks for the show fellas. It always gives me a funny tingle, like fingering my belly button, but less stinky. Same amount of lint, oddly.

#7 Edited by Willy105 (24514 posts) -

"I don't know if I'd be able to change your mind on it."

"ok"

Yep, it's a System Wars podcast.

#8 Edited by slaves (1179 posts) -

NO NO the list is all wrong. 5: Wet 4. Blades of Time 3. X-Blades 2. Haze 1. Lair

/thread

#9 Posted by jsmoke03 (12787 posts) -

i listened to the last 3 ep about how you guys came up with the process and you guys just gave up in the end. i think the last of us was under argued for and portal 2 you guys were just too tired to argue against. lol

#10 Posted by brimmul777 (1164 posts) -

Halo 3.

#11 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@jsmoke03: no doubt we were spent after 3 + hours of casting... I wasn't comfortable arguing for the last of us because after a few playthroughs I still find the first half of the game at times good at many others entirely average. Post Pittsburgh it may be the best game of gen.

I'm happy with the portal 2 pick because since I played it I've always maintained the game was flawless... it doesn't passionately stir me like a few other games have last gen, but it's a deserved game of gen in every way. Amazing sp, amazing mp, engaging story, razer sharp gameplay, excellent design... still have yet to find a flaw.

#12 Edited by Willy105 (24514 posts) -

Portal 2 is a perfect game. As good a pick for GOTG as I can find. Even better than SMG.

#13 Posted by darkspineslayer (19570 posts) -

I would have given the original more of a nod over the Sequal, but you can't go wrong with either portal game. In the end, they're both tight as fuck, but I would say Portal 2 had a bit more flab as a result of having to fill out that big box all to itself.

#14 Edited by Willy105 (24514 posts) -

I would have given the original more of a nod over the Sequal, but you can't go wrong with either portal game. In the end, they're both tight as fuck, but I would say Portal 2 had a bit more flab as a result of having to fill out that big box all to itself.

I'd say Portal 1 was a proof-of-concept, while Portal 2 is a game. Portal 1 is indeed one of the best of all time, and I would consider it for GOTG if it could be as full-featured as Portal 2.

#15 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70925 posts) -

Going to listen to it now

#16 Edited by jg4xchamp (47561 posts) -

@Willy105 said:

@darkspineslayer said:

I would have given the original more of a nod over the Sequal, but you can't go wrong with either portal game. In the end, they're both tight as fuck, but I would say Portal 2 had a bit more flab as a result of having to fill out that big box all to itself.

I'd say Portal 1 was a proof-of-concept, while Portal 2 is a game. Portal 1 is indeed one of the best of all time, and I would consider it for GOTG if it could be as full-featured as Portal 2.

It's more the other way around.

Portal is fundamentally a puzzle game from start to finish, it just happens to have this narrative where Glados keeps running her mouth. The 2nd game is is Valve telling a story, and they tied a puzzle game to it that they are willing to take extended breaks from. The difference maker in those packages is the absurdly good coop in Portal 2. Because campaign wise? those 3-4 hours of Portal are borderline perfect. Portal 2? is a bit a slog through the middle.

But that's because I don't subscribe to the notion that gameplay per square inch = better game.

#17 Posted by Behardy24 (3302 posts) -

Listening to it now.

#18 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

Dark Souls by FAR. No question.

#19 Edited by Desmonic (13545 posts) -

Any answer that is not Haze or Sonic 2006 should be immediately shunned and rejected :P

#20 Posted by Blabadon (26033 posts) -

I'm still surprised by all the love Portal gets.

#21 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@Blabadon: it didn't resonate with you? I went into portal 2 as a non believer.... dumped a few dozen hours into it between 2 sp runs and a few coop runs and I still can't find a flaw.

As for the portal 1/2 comparison. .. if the writing, characters and new puzzles were shit I'd be the first to say it... but they augment the franchise in every way. Even the "slower' parts in the middle as jg4xchamp: pointed out were totally in context and helped both keep the humor and intrigue well alive for me. .. game even has one of the most memorable endings of the gen. Valve bitches... valve.

#22 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: I ignored the souls games for a good part of the gen out of being a puss, they are absolutely some of the most addictive, rewarding and downright satisfying games I played all gen. Dark Souls is like an effin masterpiece.

#23 Edited by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: I ignored the souls games for a good part of the gen out of being a puss, they are absolutely some of the most addictive, rewarding and downright satisfying games I played all gen. Dark Souls is like an effin masterpiece.

You mean TLOU is a masterpiece :P

#24 Edited by Blabadon (26033 posts) -

@Blabadon: it didn't resonate with you? I went into portal 2 as a non believer.... dumped a few dozen hours into it between 2 sp runs and a few coop runs and I still can't find a flaw.

As for the portal 1/2 comparison. .. if the writing, characters and new puzzles were shit I'd be the first to say it... but they augment the franchise in every way. Even the "slower' parts in the middle as jg4xchamp: pointed out were totally in context and helped both keep the humor and intrigue well alive for me. .. game even has one of the most memorable endings of the gen. Valve bitches... valve.

Only beat the first Portal. Do I really like it? Yeah. Is it the end-all of perfection that it seems to be with people? Not to me. It's short, replaying it is boring to me, and the first one or two hours is really repetitive. Plus it's a 3D puzzler.

It's not a terribly flawed game, but that's not how I really look at it. It's really good, but nowhere near my top 20 of the last gen.

#25 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@TheEroica said:

@seanmcloughlin: I ignored the souls games for a good part of the gen out of being a puss, they are absolutely some of the most addictive, rewarding and downright satisfying games I played all gen. Dark Souls is like an effin masterpiece.

You mean TLOU is a masterpiece :P

Pffff please, TLOU doesn't hold a candle to Dark Souls

#26 Posted by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

@TheEroica said:

@Blabadon: it didn't resonate with you? I went into portal 2 as a non believer.... dumped a few dozen hours into it between 2 sp runs and a few coop runs and I still can't find a flaw.

As for the portal 1/2 comparison. .. if the writing, characters and new puzzles were shit I'd be the first to say it... but they augment the franchise in every way. Even the "slower' parts in the middle as jg4xchamp: pointed out were totally in context and helped both keep the humor and intrigue well alive for me. .. game even has one of the most memorable endings of the gen. Valve bitches... valve.

Only beat the first Portal. Do I really like it? Yeah. Is it the end-all of perfection that it seems to be with people? Not to me. It's short, replaying it is boring to me, and the first one or two hours is really repetitive. Plus it's a 3D puzzler.

It's not a terribly flawed game, but that's not how I really look at it. It's really good, but nowhere near my top 20 of the last gen.

Have to say the Portal games are probably the most over hyped games of all time. Portal was pretty decent but what you do for the first hour is what you're gonna do for the rest of the fraking game. Portal 2 was entertaining as long wheatley was on screen but again, same dullness Portal 1 had.

It's like people can't say anything bad about Valve games cause their knee pads fit them too well it seems.

#27 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

Only beat the first Portal. Do I really like it? Yeah. Is it the end-all of perfection that it seems to be with people? Not to me. It's short, replaying it is boring to me, and the first one or two hours is really repetitive. Plus it's a 3D puzzler.

It's not a terribly flawed game, but that's not how I really look at it. It's really good, but nowhere near my top 20 of the last gen.

Portal's one of those rare cases where a game is exactly the length it needs to be. Is it short? Yup, but it works in the game's favour. Any longer would have felt unwelcome and overstayed its welcome. the game shows you all its tricks and mechanics and ends right before they get overly repetitive and stale. It has slight repetition like any other game to solidify your grasp of the mechanics and then it moves you onto the next mechanic.

Not only that but it has a decent narrative that isn't in your face and is always in the background being told in a contextual manner rather than cutscenes or NPCs or anything liker that. It never rips control from the player. It also has a tutorial that fits the style of the game, you're learning the game mechanics the same way your character is learning them for the first time and the whole premise of the game lends itself really well to it. The whole game is basically a tutorial.

You also get a really damn funny game too on top of all that and one of THE best breakout characters in a game ever. Glados shot straight to the top as one of the best characters ever and is frequently in top lists too. The dry way she told her humour was just perfect. Sure it has crappy replay value but what puzzle game doesn't? In fact a lot of games have crap replay value like horror games too. That's not exactly a flaw if the first run through was almost perfection.

I find it very hard to find flaws in Portal 1. I still prefer something like Dark Souls over it because that's just my taste in games but I still can't deny the almost perfect formula Portal has going for it

#28 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

Only beat the first Portal. Do I really like it? Yeah. Is it the end-all of perfection that it seems to be with people? Not to me. It's short, replaying it is boring to me, and the first one or two hours is really repetitive. Plus it's a 3D puzzler.

It's not a terribly flawed game, but that's not how I really look at it. It's really good, but nowhere near my top 20 of the last gen.

Have to say the Portal games are probably the most over hyped games of all time. Portal was pretty decent but what you do for the first hour is what you're gonna do for the rest of the fraking game. Portal 2 was entertaining as long wheatley was on screen but again, same dullness Portal 1 had.

It's like people can't say anything bad about Valve games cause their knee pads fit them too well it seems.

and you guys wonder why no one takes you seriously....

#29 Edited by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@TheEroica said:

@seanmcloughlin: I ignored the souls games for a good part of the gen out of being a puss, they are absolutely some of the most addictive, rewarding and downright satisfying games I played all gen. Dark Souls is like an effin masterpiece.

You mean TLOU is a masterpiece :P

Pffff please, TLOU doesn't hold a candle to Dark Souls

You're right, Dark Souls might be a candle but TLOU is a Light House :D

#30 Posted by Blabadon (26033 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: My main flaw I can find in Portal 1 is that it's not always fun. Usually fun in video games for me comes with variety, something the first game didn't always have.

But yeah, I'm cool with short games. For a lot of genres I prefer them too.

#31 Edited by jg4xchamp (47561 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

Sure it has crappy replay value but what puzzle game doesn't? ]

This is incorrect.

Puzzle games by their very nature actually are more re-playable over time. It's a very simple advantage. While they aren't instantly replayable as say something like Dark Souls or The Last of Us, where you can start over all again right away, and do something different. Puzzle games overtime become replayable, because you simply forget all the answers. Specifically games that actually force you to think way out of left field for a solution(Braid or Antichamber for instance). They don't need to build in features for the sake of replayability because by design they will become replayable. Especially when you throw in a game like say Spacechem where the answers are as open as you can get in this space.

Plus I'm of the mindset that just because you threw in features to make your solo play replayable, doesn't mean you are actually worth a damn the second time. The game itself needs to be worth a spin, and Portal was worth a spin on just the merits of how good it was. The Godfather isn't worth another spin because it changes on multiple viewings. It's worth it because it's fucking fantastic every time you see it. Same mindset with a game, albeit more of an investment both from a physical and time investment standpoint, and in the case of puzzle games, a mental investment as well.

#32 Edited by blamix99 (1726 posts) -

one of these 5

Super Mario Galaxy

Uncharted 2

The Last of Us

Demon Souls

Dark Souls 2

#33 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

You're right, Dark Souls might be a candle but TLOU is a Light House :D

That's not even what I said to make that statement work

This is incorrect.

Puzzle games by their very nature actually are more re-playable over time. It's a very simple advantage. While they aren't instantly replayable as say something like Dark Souls or The Last of Us, where you can start over all again right away, and do something different. Puzzle games overtime become replayable, because you simply forget all the answers. Specifically games that actually force you to think way out of left field for a solution(Braid or Antichamber for instance). They don't need to build in features for the sake of replayability because by design they will become replayable. Especially when you throw in a game like say Spacechem where the answers are as open as you can get in this space.

Plus I'm of the mindset that just because you threw in features to make your solo play replayable, doesn't mean you are actually worth a damn the second time. The game itself needs to be worth a spin, and Portal was worth a spin on just the merits of how good it was. The Godfather isn't worth another spin because it changes on multiple viewings. It's worth it because it's fucking fantastic every time you see it. Same mindset with a game, albeit more of an investment both from a physical and time investment standpoint, and in the case of puzzle games, a mental investment as well.

You'd think you'd forget the solutions but you really don't. You're a little rusty sure but it gets to a point where you go "oh yeah now I remember". I know what you're trying to say but I still stick by what I said, puzzle games are all based around their puzzles with little experimentation in those puzzles or in between the puzzle sections. Diminishing their replay value, I'm not saying there's NO replay value whatsoever but I find less replay value in them over something like Dark Souls due to the vast myriad of builds I can make and locations I can see in different orders

I agree that a game doesn't need to change to be good. I may not want to play Portal 1 again anytime soon but that doesn't change my mind about how damn near perfect it is.

#34 Posted by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: Dark Souls is an amazing game, but it's no where near the caliber that is TLOU.

#35 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -
#36 Posted by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -
#37 Edited by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: @Ballroompirate:

Hello apples... meet my friend oranges. :P seriously guys, both games have a legit claim for top 5 of gen, but in such magnificently different ways... if either of you can draw legit comparisons and contrasts between the two games directly then God bless you, but in the end they're two different games going for two different experiences...

#38 Posted by Ballroompirate (22602 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: @Ballroompirate:

Hello apples... meet my friend oranges. :P seriously guys, both games have a legit claim for top 5 of gen, but in such magnificently different ways... if either of you can draw legit comparisons and contrasts between the two games directly then God bless you, but in the end they're two different games going for two different experiences...

In the end of the day, which has more going for it (answer is: TLOU if you don't care to read what I'm gonna write)

Dark souls- a pretty amazing game, while it's amazing it has a few flaws like the false idea of "this game is hard" when it's just full of cheap aspects that make it hard. The story is done in a way where you have to read every damn item you get then put two together is just so half assed in my book. Then there's no character build up for anyone in the game to actually care about, hell I didn't even care about the character I created cause outside of "kill mobs/bosses, then collect souls to lvl up" I had no connection to my character or the people around me besides Solaire (PRAISE the sun!) and Gwyenevre who had an "epic chest ahead", the Dark Soul world just felt more "undead" than my character was.

I do love the combat, loot system and the atmosphere in Dark Souls so those are major pluses for Dark Souls in my book.

TLOU- while I pretty much praise it more than Solaire does the sun, it does have it's flaws like the Ai can be sketchy at times and the lets face it, shooting mechanics isn't one of Naughty Dogs strong points.

TLOU does do a lot of things right like the crafting system, story, characterization, atmosphere and it's one of the few games where I don't want my AI partner to die a horrible death cause they are a burden (like Ashley from RE4).

#39 Edited by jsmoke03 (12787 posts) -

@TheEroica said:

@jsmoke03: no doubt we were spent after 3 + hours of casting... I wasn't comfortable arguing for the last of us because after a few playthroughs I still find the first half of the game at times good at many others entirely average. Post Pittsburgh it may be the best game of gen.

I'm happy with the portal 2 pick because since I played it I've always maintained the game was flawless... it doesn't passionately stir me like a few other games have last gen, but it's a deserved game of gen in every way. Amazing sp, amazing mp, engaging story, razer sharp gameplay, excellent design... still have yet to find a flaw.

i think you guys were one argument away from not making portal 2 the game of the gen lol. one day would have made a big difference but i totally understand lol. i think animal_mother was burnt out cuz he argued with every game in the order.

i totally thought it was going to be mass effect 2 #1, last of us #2, portal 2 #3

i thought the original portal was better than portal 2 in its time. portal one was a complete awesome mindf*ck while portal 2 was just lengthier polished game....which i think you BRIEFLY mentioned. you could have gone down the rabbit hole with that argument.

i think animal mother kept going with the game was better, but i think what is most important, especially when you compare games that arent from the same year, is context of the game when it released which i feel you guys didnt heavily weigh.

anyway i enjoyed the podcasts. you guys should really reach a sw all time greatest games and include other people.

keep up the entertaining work.

#40 Edited by charizard1605 (56297 posts) -

Portal is legitimately a gem of a game, Portal 2 sort of sags for a bit, but on the whole, it's a worthy successor to the first game.

#41 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@Ballroompirate: sure... all points I can see or at least acknowledge to some point, but it sounds more to my like a preference difference rather than a factual differrnce. I mean, and this may contradict my comments on the cast about narrative importance, but I look at the paper thin narrative and characters of dark souls as a strength...

how often do big games now a day not jam a character and narrative down our throats? Dark souls, to me was a study in destitute of the surroundings. The character was me... the enemies were bizarre and terrifying at times, the locales always felt grim and foreign and the concept of the game breaths because of this....

The day the souls games become directed, is the day the concept has lost its identity...

The Last of us is no doubt a genre defining game... it pushes production, writing and character development into new directions.. and I think gaming is better for it. It did not however augment what games are doing now in terms of gameplay... something I'd argue dark souls did (not suggesting dark souls is original gameplay - for the nerds)

Tlou does something particularly well in terms of gameplay though... it thoroughly incorporated a sense of placement for logical moments into gameplay. It takes real time to create an item, the game doesn't pause during these moments, Joel has weapon sway, you may or may not be able to retrieve an arrow... etc etc... I like that they took the gameplay there as it definitely crossed my mind many times hoping to god my arrow didn't break as I sent it flying into a clickers head or that I needed to hurry fast to make that med pack before the patrol makes its next round. Much like dark souls... the last of us does what it's intended to do very well... at the end of the day though, I still feel like ones happy being an apple and ones happy being an orange.

#42 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@charizard1605: where does it sag for you char... I be actually been shocked to hear that there is a lot of people who prefer the first over the second...

#43 Edited by locopatho (20193 posts) -

It's so hard to pick a "game of the gen".

Mass Effect is probably my most "special" game/series, Portal was the most "perfect" (no wasted moments/padding), Super Mario Galaxy the most impactful and joyful, Gears the most brutal and visceral and adrenaline pumping, Halo and COD gave me endless multiplayer hours, Forza the most pretty and joyful racing I've experienced, Civ 4 + Expansions gave me my glorious imperial fantasies, Naughty Dog gave me my favourite characters, Bioshock my favourite story, Minecraft was the most creative, stuff like Dark Souls and Super Meat Boy the most satisfying and rewarding gameplay challenges, Elder Scrolls and Fallout were the most freeform, Red Dead Redemption best atmosphere, and Batman let me be the goddam Batman.

Literally can't choose a single game, really. What a freaking amazing generation of gaming.

#44 Edited by locopatho (20193 posts) -

@charizard1605: where does it sag for you char... I be actually been shocked to hear that there is a lot of people who prefer the first over the second...

I found some of the old timey puzzles with the goop a little bit dull. Not sure why, they were still great puzzles. I think possibly I couldn't stop picturing that scary Nazi Schillenger from Oz :P

#45 Posted by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

@locopatho: Vern Schilinger. .. I honestly wish I hadn't seen him in that roll first before any others because all I think of is him branding asses with swastikas. ...

Great post above ... indeed there are so many legit claims to greatness last gen.

#46 Posted by clyde46 (45442 posts) -

You guys want me on the next cast?

#47 Edited by TheEroica (13340 posts) -

Eff yeah we do. Can u do this Thursday at 9 eastern?

#48 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70925 posts) -

ok, listened to it now. Not really my top 5 pick. But you are several persons discussing and trying to decide i get that. I want to be on again when i am done with my exams

#49 Posted by clyde46 (45442 posts) -

Not this week I can't, I'm driving trucks all this week.

#50 Edited by Blabadon (26033 posts) -

Who's picking up Watch Dogs here?