Official TOMB RAIDER Hype Thread (8.5 @ GS, Final Hours ep.6)

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

ChubbyGuy40

That sh!t is horrifying.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

The maps maybe linear in Uncharted, but that's certainly not the case with Tomb Raider. Every hub on the island has multiple routes to explore around that includes hidden or inaccessible areas requiring the proper gear acquisition to reach. That's how they place collectibles, some which are harder to find than others. This is inherint to exploration.

ChubbyGuy40

Linear doesn't refer to map layout, which is exactly the same as Uncharted minus the ability to backtrack. Inherent to exploration is also reward. Getting more salvage and possibly a shiny token is a really crappy reward. Is there even any reason to 100% a place outside of completionists sake? "Tomb Raided" is just as big of an insult as DmC's wig joke.

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

AdobeArtist

Was interesting to hear Joe's thought's on an unlockable 'Survivor' mode, I had roughly the same idea when I finished the game. Rather than just getting rid of 'survival instincts' though, which wouldn't make much difference once you had already solved the puzzles and found the loot, it would be cool if they got rid of health regen and forced you to hunt animals/find food caches to regain health.

It would make the combat much more interesting, trying not just to get through it, but get through unscathed and would turn exploration from a nice distraction into a fundamental survival tool. They could also greatly restrict ammo so you had to rely more on using your bow and retrieving arrows.

Would love a nice bit of DLC with a new, challenging way to play along with a decent chunk of new content to explore.

*edit* Might as well throw in only being able to save at camp sites, I'm kindof a masochist :)

This game deserved a 9.5 or a 10

f'in amazing

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

JamDev

Was interesting to hear Joe's thought's on an unlockable 'Survivor' mode, I had roughly the same idea when I finished the game. Rather than just getting rid of 'survival instincts' though, which wouldn't make much difference once you had already solved the puzzles and found the loot, it would be cool if they got rid of health regen and forced you to hunt animals/find food caches to regain health.

It would make the combat much more interesting, trying not just to get through it, but get through unscathed and would turn exploration from a nice distraction into a fundamental survival tool. They could also greatly restrict ammo so you had to rely more on using your bow and retrieving arrows.

Would love a nice bit of DLC with a new, challenging way to play along with a decent chunk of new content to explore.

*edit* Might as well throw in only being able to save at camp sites, I'm kindof a masochist :)

Its a complete injustice to the game and the developers that none of the reviews have even mentioned how good the AI is in this game. Maybe its because Im playing the game on hard but the AI constantly flanks you and overwhelms you . You simply can't sit in cover for long becuase they will either flank you or throw fire bombs to flush you out. This game easily has  some of the best AI in any game. 

Does any of guys in Europe know where I can get the PC Survivors/Collectors version of Tomb Raider for the PC that is the English version? I have looked at US retailers and they are charging out the a$$ for the PC. 

That was downright IDIOTIC of Square Enix and Crystal Dynamics to not put out at least the Survivors version or the Collectors Version out here in North America. They could have at least had like a 100 copies of the survivor version and maybe a couple of dozen version of the Collector's version on Amazon.

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

AdobeArtist

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

seanmcloughlin

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

seanmcloughlin

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

Clearly

You've never

Seen his "Angry"

Reviews like Mind Jack

Or Sonic Free Riders. The reason

He's gushing is usually because he just really likes

The game. Can't blame him, he's played his fair amount of

Crap and gems that he likes. Sorry that you are so critical, TB is

That-a-way.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

Goyoshi12

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

Clearly

You've never

Seen his "Angry"

Reviews like Mind Jack

Or Sonic Free Riders. The reason

He's gushing is usually because he just really likes

The game. Can't blame him, he's played his fair amount of

Crap and gems that he likes. Sorry that you are so critical, TB is

That-a-way.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Ohhh hey check it out. Angry Joe finally has his review in :D

mitu123

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

Haven't seen it

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

seanmcloughlin

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

Goyoshi12

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Angry joe reviews like this are painful to listen to. They're full of such gushing and hyperbole. 

seanmcloughlin

Clearly

You've never

Seen his "Angry"

Reviews like Mind Jack

Or Sonic Free Riders. The reason

He's gushing is usually because he just really likes

The game. Can't blame him, he's played his fair amount of

Crap and gems that he likes. Sorry that you are so critical, TB is

That-a-way.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

So is your contention with Joe's review being full of praise because it goes against your opinion of the game?

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

Zaibach

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

Why do I even

Bother with putting

My bet and punishment

In my sig anymore. It's like...

Unless there's some hot barely clothed

Chick in my sig no one will take a look at it.

Curse you freedomfreak, curse you.

So are there any nude mods yet? I might reinstall it.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Clearly

You've never

Seen his "Angry"

Reviews like Mind Jack

Or Sonic Free Riders. The reason

He's gushing is usually because he just really likes

The game. Can't blame him, he's played his fair amount of

Crap and gems that he likes. Sorry that you are so critical, TB is

That-a-way.

AdobeArtist

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

So is your contention with Joe's review being full of praise because it goes against your opinion of the game?

No because as a reviewer he's not looking at the game objectively, he lets his bias get in the way. I know it's impossible to completely get rid of bias in any review but what he does isn't exactly reviewing in a strict fashion. maybe that's the point to him, I wouldn't know I don't follow him that well. He's not just looking at the game and saying what's good and what's bad, he's letting the good overshadow everything else and no game is perfect enough to only garner praise. It's just a little too one sided for my liking

If people like him then fine, if you like his style of reviewing then fine again. I however don't. this thread seems to be nothing but people lighting on you if you have some form of criticism though, any time I've brought up the slightest negative thing. I like to be a bit more level headed when it comes to games 

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

Goyoshi12

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

I might give them a look yeah, people seem to like the dude o he must be doing something right. Also your posts are a pain in the ass to read and quote :P

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

Goyoshi12

Why do I even

Bother with putting

My bet and punishment

In my sig anymore. It's like...

Unless there's some hot barely clothed

Chick in my sig no one will take a look at it.

Curse you freedomfreak, curse you.

I see it now, man, you really a new barely clothed hot chick down there, stat!

I might give them a look yeah, people seem to like the dude o he must be doing something right. Also your posts are a pain in the ass to read and quote :P

seanmcloughlin

I like him.

He's fair (from what

I've seen of him), smart, funny,

And just all around well knowing

Of the gaming market and community.

I also love how even though he has some bias

(As we all do to some extent) he still speaks fairly about

A game and it's good points (giving Skyrim a 10/10 but

Acknowledging the better combat and dragon encounters in

His Dragon's Dogma review). Give him a watch. Maybe you'll enjoy

Him, maybe you won't. Don't let his views muddle his reviews, man. I can

Disagree with someone about the game and it's score/opinions on the game but

Even then I can still enjoy the review for what it is.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

seanmcloughlin

So is your contention with Joe's review being full of praise because it goes against your opinion of the game?

No because as a reviewer he's not looking at the game objectively, he lets his bias get in the way. I know it's impossible to completely get rid of bias in any review but what he does isn't exactly reviewing in a strict fashion. maybe that's the point to him, I wouldn't know I don't follow him that well. He's not just looking at the game and saying what's good and what's bad, he's letting the good overshadow everything else and no game is perfect enough to only garner praise. It's just a little too one sided for my liking

If people like him then fine, if you like his style of reviewing then fine again. I however don't. this thread seems to be nothing but people lighting on you if you have some form of criticism though, any time I've brought up the slightest negative thing. I like to be a bit more level headed when it comes to games 

You should reaaaaaally check out his Alien CM review. But before that, watch his "hype" video for said game. As you know he does both reviews and commentary pieces, and well you can easily see how excited he was for the game before it came out. He made a Top 10 list for why ACM "will" be awesome. Yeah he had high expectations for the game (that's putting it mildly, lol), but then look the review itself.

You'll see that in no way did he allow his fandom for the series cloud his judgement when the moment of truth came. He was able to see that game exactly for what it was.

So with that in mind, I think we can rule out any compromise of integrity. Joe has proven to be capable to separating his fandom from his critical observation. Do you really think his high appraisal of Tomb Raider is a result of "blind bias" to something he enjoys?

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

So is your contention with Joe's review being full of praise because it goes against your opinion of the game?

AdobeArtist

No because as a reviewer he's not looking at the game objectively, he lets his bias get in the way. I know it's impossible to completely get rid of bias in any review but what he does isn't exactly reviewing in a strict fashion. maybe that's the point to him, I wouldn't know I don't follow him that well. He's not just looking at the game and saying what's good and what's bad, he's letting the good overshadow everything else and no game is perfect enough to only garner praise. It's just a little too one sided for my liking

If people like him then fine, if you like his style of reviewing then fine again. I however don't. this thread seems to be nothing but people lighting on you if you have some form of criticism though, any time I've brought up the slightest negative thing. I like to be a bit more level headed when it comes to games 

You should reaaaaaally check out his Alien CM review. But before that, watch his "hype" video for said game. As you know he does both reviews and commentary pieces, and well you can easily see how excited he was for the game before it came out. He made a Top 10 list for why ACM "will" be awesome. Yeah he had high expectations for the game (that's putting it mildly, lol), but then look the review itself.

You'll see that in no way did he allow his fandom for the series cloud his judgement when the moment of truth came. He was able to see that game exactly for what it was.

So with that in mind, I think we can rule out any compromise of integrity. Joe has proven to be capable to separating his fandom from his critical observation. Do you really think his high appraisal of Tomb Raider is a result of "blind bias" to something he enjoys?

Yep just watched both, well, not every single second but enough to know. And it WOULD seem I judged him a bit too harshly and have seen all the wrong videos for him. A lot more balanced now I think. and at least he wasn't afraid to let rip and tear the game apart

Also he's friends with the Nostalgia Critic and some other review dude who for the life of me I can't remember the name of (he has long hair) and that on its own warrants praise

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

No because as a reviewer he's not looking at the game objectively, he lets his bias get in the way. I know it's impossible to completely get rid of bias in any review but what he does isn't exactly reviewing in a strict fashion. maybe that's the point to him, I wouldn't know I don't follow him that well. He's not just looking at the game and saying what's good and what's bad, he's letting the good overshadow everything else and no game is perfect enough to only garner praise. It's just a little too one sided for my liking

If people like him then fine, if you like his style of reviewing then fine again. I however don't. this thread seems to be nothing but people lighting on you if you have some form of criticism though, any time I've brought up the slightest negative thing. I like to be a bit more level headed when it comes to games 

seanmcloughlin

You should reaaaaaally check out his Alien CM review. But before that, watch his "hype" video for said game. As you know he does both reviews and commentary pieces, and well you can easily see how excited he was for the game before it came out. He made a Top 10 list for why ACM "will" be awesome. Yeah he had high expectations for the game (that's putting it mildly, lol), but then look the review itself.

You'll see that in no way did he allow his fandom for the series cloud his judgement when the moment of truth came. He was able to see that game exactly for what it was.

So with that in mind, I think we can rule out any compromise of integrity. Joe has proven to be capable to separating his fandom from his critical observation. Do you really think his high appraisal of Tomb Raider is a result of "blind bias" to something he enjoys?

Yep just watched both, well, not every single second but enough to know. And it WOULD seem I judged him a bit too harshly and have seen all the wrong videos for him. A lot more balanced now I think. and at least he wasn't afraid to let rip and tear the game apart

Also he's friends with the Nostalgia Critic and some other review dude who for the life of me I can't remember the name of (he has long hair) and that on its own warrants praise

Spoony?

 

Spoony?

Goyoshi12

THANK YOU !! lol

it was driving me crazy. I remember watching a few of his things before and loved them

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Spoony?

seanmcloughlin

THANK YOU !! lol

it was driving me crazy. I remember watching a few of his things before and loved them

spoony is great, I checked him out a few weeks ago through the ultima reviews, he's really passionate lol.

I feel TB's really Fell off after going stateside, I don't know what it is but he just isn't as entertaining to me anymore, I use him mostly as an information source, but GAF has him beat there easily.

I'm almost finished with it. Overall I'd give it a 6.5. Too many issues that ruined the fun.

I'm almost finished with it. Overall I'd give it a 6.5. Too many issues that ruined the fun.

ChubbyGuy40

List some of them and I'll see if mine match

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

I'm almost finished with it. Overall I'd give it a 6.5. Too many issues that ruined the fun.

seanmcloughlin

List some of them and I'll see if mine match

-Camera. It follows every step and headbob and it's sickening.
-Story and inconsistancies. Along with these college graduates being dumber than a bag of rocks, letting you collect books and various other items tells you what's going on but Lara doesn't recognize any of it. Literally everything was told when the game was like half-way done, but none of the stuff you discover is recognized by the game in it's narrative.
-General action sequences. Uncharted copy to the core. I don't enjoy holding forward until the scripted sequence is finished the first time, I don't enjoy them now. Also when entering certain places, it's mandatory to light a torch and slowly walk every, single, time. It's annoying when backtracking.
-Poorly designed tombs. Complete one simple puzzle and get a shiny gun part/treasure map. Congradulations, Tomb Raided! That's a slap to the face.
-Some gameplay issues. There's never any hidden enemies/surprises. If I don't see any enemies but there are some, Lara will crouch whether I like it or not. While the automatic cover isn't as bad as RE:ORC, it's still sticky around some objects. A personal one for me, but when you're just out of reach of a ledge/platform but the character floats to it anyway, that's an immersion breaker. Some enemies are bullet sponges but that's not a big issue. The shotgun being useless unless they're within 12 inches of you is pretty annoying.

[spoiler] Shouldn't the Sun Queen be buried in a tomb, not a temple/monastary? Aren't tombs are supposed to have someone buried, not cult shrines? That's something that stuck out to me. Also how was Roth still firing and turning when he had an axe in his spinal cord? And before that, how long was he in that sniper position? He should've been able to save that ship captain, unless he happened to get there just before it happened. [/spoiler]

I also encountered a game-breaking bug near the end that had to do with an elevator that wouldn't let me progress, but was able to eventually get around it. Overall the game is ok, even fun at times. I'm not disappointed in it because this is exactly how I thought the game was going to turn out. Only thing that surprised me was the length. Longer than I thought it would be. At least it isn't a huge blunder like DmC.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

No because as a reviewer he's not looking at the game objectively, he lets his bias get in the way. I know it's impossible to completely get rid of bias in any review but what he does isn't exactly reviewing in a strict fashion. maybe that's the point to him, I wouldn't know I don't follow him that well. He's not just looking at the game and saying what's good and what's bad, he's letting the good overshadow everything else and no game is perfect enough to only garner praise. It's just a little too one sided for my liking

If people like him then fine, if you like his style of reviewing then fine again. I however don't. this thread seems to be nothing but people lighting on you if you have some form of criticism though, any time I've brought up the slightest negative thing. I like to be a bit more level headed when it comes to games 

seanmcloughlin

You should reaaaaaally check out his Alien CM review. But before that, watch his "hype" video for said game. As you know he does both reviews and commentary pieces, and well you can easily see how excited he was for the game before it came out. He made a Top 10 list for why ACM "will" be awesome. Yeah he had high expectations for the game (that's putting it mildly, lol), but then look the review itself.

You'll see that in no way did he allow his fandom for the series cloud his judgement when the moment of truth came. He was able to see that game exactly for what it was.

So with that in mind, I think we can rule out any compromise of integrity. Joe has proven to be capable to separating his fandom from his critical observation. Do you really think his high appraisal of Tomb Raider is a result of "blind bias" to something he enjoys?

Yep just watched both, well, not every single second but enough to know. And it WOULD seem I judged him a bit too harshly and have seen all the wrong videos for him. A lot more balanced now I think. and at least he wasn't afraid to let rip and tear the game apart

Also he's friends with the Nostalgia Critic and some other review dude who for the life of me I can't remember the name of (he has long hair) and that on its own warrants praise

Yeah normally the guy does do a bit of hyperbole for a couple things, but he always tends to back up everything he says. He rips games apart and caresses as well.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="crippledmachine"]

Think I might pick it up in the next Steam Sale.

I just hope it's not poor man's Uncharted. Life's too short to play the bastardised version of the franchise I already enjoyed.

RyanShazam

You must be new to gaming. Uncharted is the bastardized version of Tomb Raider.

Preety much this. Uncharted bears no similarity with Tomb Raiders of the past at all, i find its all a bandwagon statement considering Uncharted is a mix of Indiana Jones + Crash Bandicoot basicly + Shooting

-Camera. It follows every step and headbob and it's sickening.
-Story and inconsistancies. Along with these college graduates being dumber than a bag of rocks, letting you collect books and various other items tells you what's going on but Lara doesn't recognize any of it. Literally everything was told when the game was like half-way done, but none of the stuff you discover is recognized by the game in it's narrative.
-General action sequences. Uncharted copy to the core. I don't enjoy holding forward until the scripted sequence is finished the first time, I don't enjoy them now. Also when entering certain places, it's mandatory to light a torch and slowly walk every, single, time. It's annoying when backtracking.
-Poorly designed tombs. Complete one simple puzzle and get a shiny gun part/treasure map. Congradulations, Tomb Raided! That's a slap to the face.
-Some gameplay issues. There's never any hidden enemies/surprises. If I don't see any enemies but there are some, Lara will crouch whether I like it or not. While the automatic cover isn't as bad as RE:ORC, it's still sticky around some objects. A personal one for me, but when you're just out of reach of a ledge/platform but the character floats to it anyway, that's an immersion breaker. Some enemies are bullet sponges but that's not a big issue. The shotgun being useless unless they're within 12 inches of you is pretty annoying.

ChubbyGuy40

Honestly all those complaints are what I felt too.

-The camera is sickening, literally, I talked to some guys on NeoGaf and they said it literall made them vomit. Whoever implemented that is a fvcking idiot and it's extremely obnoxious in some cases. You can never just run and enjoy the scenery without that feeling of someone running behind you with a video camera, even in the cutscenes it's horribly implemented. Like trying to emulate those paranormal activity, chronicle,cloverfield scenarios (not THAT bad though) but it bounces around her face a lot

-Story and characters are the two big ones for me. The story first of all isn't that interesting, but TR has never had award winning stories so it's forgivable I guess. I never read or listened to a single collectible, her voice was annoying, so I wouldn't know about that part.

-It definitely tried to do the whole Uncharted thing. Anyone who says it didn't is a liar or in a lot of denial because it's so similar you can't not see it. BUT I think it does some of the platforming in the set pieces better than Uncharted, but I still don't like those sliding sequences and I hate any game that has a sequences running to or away from the camera as ground breaks under you. hated it in God of War games, uncharted and now TR. Those are such a cop out and a huge cliche almost at this point when doing set pieces.

-Tombs, yeah they're pretty poor. A nice distraction but very simple and over all too quick. Also the cave paintings might as well say "SECRET TOMB OVER HERE" they're not exactly a secret really are they? :?

-The whole walking and crouching and lighting torch thing on her own bugged me too, I didn't like how the game wrestled control from me in that regard. I would like a crouch button and determine when she hides or crawls etc. 

This part annoyed me...

[spoiler] when grim died pushing the guy off the platform, the gameplay afterwards you can see the bottom of the drop he jumped off and it's like 20 feet. No way would either of the guys have died and worst of all he's magically gone too and there is literally no further he could have fallen, It's a flat basin at the bottom. [/spoiler]

Overall the material for the perfect TR game and the one I expected is all there but put in the wrong order and executed differently than I wanted.

I think I might have posted this before but I will again because it has a lot of these points in it so you can see if you agree with it 

[QUOTE="RyanShazam"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

You must be new to gaming. Uncharted is the bastardized version of Tomb Raider.

megaspiderweb09

Preety much this. Uncharted bears no similarity with Tomb Raiders of the past at all, i find its all a bandwagon statement considering Uncharted is a mix of Indiana Jones + Crash Bandicoot basicly + Shooting

Even though Uncharted devs said they looked at old tomb raider on where to start.

[QUOTE="megaspiderweb09"]

[QUOTE="RyanShazam"]

 

Cloud567kar

Preety much this. Uncharted bears no similarity with Tomb Raiders of the past at all, i find its all a bandwagon statement considering Uncharted is a mix of Indiana Jones + Crash Bandicoot basicly + Shooting

Even though Uncharted devs said they looked at old tomb raider on where to start.

Yeah for exploration and puzzles etc. I can't remember TR games having on rails (almost) set pieces. Now suddenly this one does. Not only that but very similar ones too

[QUOTE="Cloud567kar"]

[QUOTE="megaspiderweb09"]

Preety much this. Uncharted bears no similarity with Tomb Raiders of the past at all, i find its all a bandwagon statement considering Uncharted is a mix of Indiana Jones + Crash Bandicoot basicly + Shooting

seanmcloughlin

Even though Uncharted devs said they looked at old tomb raider on where to start.

Yeah for exploration and puzzles etc. I can't remember TR games having on rails (almost) set pieces. Now suddenly this one does. Not only that but very similar ones too

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="Cloud567kar"]

Even though Uncharted devs said they looked at old tomb raider on where to start.

padaporra

Yeah for exploration and puzzles etc. I can't remember TR games having on rails (almost) set pieces. Now suddenly this one does. Not only that but very similar ones too

All CD's TR did.  

Real TR is 1,2 and 3 :P

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game and beign excited about it but I don't like reviews that sound like IGN wrote them. But I never really liked AJ's reviews to begin withor maybe the ones I have seen are all the wrong ones. I do however like the setup of his reviews.

And TB doesn't review games, not in the traditional sense anyway

Goyoshi12

Well,

As Mitu

Suggested

You should give his

Aliens Colonial Marine

Review a listen in and while

Watching it, take this into consideration

Throughout the review. There are times when

He can perhaps be a little blinded by hype but it doesn't

Stop him from delivering his full fledged opinion no matter how

It sounds to others. Also, look up his angry reviews like Kane and Lynch 2,

Sonic Free Riders, Mindjack, Risen, and even to a degree Assassin's Creed 3. He's

Nothing like IGN, man. Nothing.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

You should reaaaaaally check out his Alien CM review. But before that, watch his "hype" video for said game. As you know he does both reviews and commentary pieces, and well you can easily see how excited he was for the game before it came out. He made a Top 10 list for why ACM "will" be awesome. Yeah he had high expectations for the game (that's putting it mildly, lol), but then look the review itself.

You'll see that in no way did he allow his fandom for the series cloud his judgement when the moment of truth came. He was able to see that game exactly for what it was.

So with that in mind, I think we can rule out any compromise of integrity. Joe has proven to be capable to separating his fandom from his critical observation. Do you really think his high appraisal of Tomb Raider is a result of "blind bias" to something he enjoys?

AznbkdX

Yep just watched both, well, not every single second but enough to know. And it WOULD seem I judged him a bit too harshly and have seen all the wrong videos for him. A lot more balanced now I think. and at least he wasn't afraid to let rip and tear the game apart

Also he's friends with the Nostalgia Critic and some other review dude who for the life of me I can't remember the name of (he has long hair) and that on its own warrants praise

Yeah normally the guy does do a bit of hyperbole for a couple things, but he always tends to back up everything he says. He rips games apart and caresses as well.

Basically, when he rips a game apart, it's warranted. And equally so when he praises a game, it's because he feels it's much deserved. He doesn't praise or condemn randomly or for no reason.

Preety much this. Uncharted bears no similarity with Tomb Raiders of the past at all, i find its all a bandwagon statement considering Uncharted is a mix of Indiana Jones + Crash Bandicoot basicly + Shooting

megaspiderweb09

It definitely tried to do the whole Uncharted thing. Anyone who says it didn't is a liar or in a lot of denial because it's so similar you can't not see it. BUT I think it does some of the platforming in the set pieces better than Uncharted, but I still don't like those sliding sequences and I hate any game that has a sequences running to or away from the camera as ground breaks under you. hated it in God of War games, uncharted and now TR. Those are such a cop out and a huge cliche almost at this point when doing set pieces.

seanmcloughlin

Look, I've given the concession that the new Tomb Raider took a queue from Uncharted in cinematic presentation (and to some extent combat, while keeping its own design in exploration and puzzles). But you can really tell me you don't see how Uncharted came about because of Tomb Raider? It carries the very same theme of a world travelling treasure hunter and now you would assert this is just a coincidence? Sure there's Indiana Jones, but games more often take their inspiration from within their own media, so it can't be denied that a video game about an exporer (Tomb Raider) was an influence for Naughty Dog to come up with Uncharted.

There are two ways to look at this:

* Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted both borrowed from Indiana Jones, each in their own way, or...

* considering Tomb Raider came first and was first to implement the Indiana Jones formula in 3D gaming form, Uncharted in succession took inspiration from Indy, but through TR in how to create it in gaming context for action and platforming, in which they adapted their own approach.

You might suggest the first proposition, but video games don't exist in a void. Tomb Raider already had a firmly established presence in the gaming landscape, so for that to be unnoticed by ND in concepting their own IP is highly improbable.

Oh and guess this is once again relevant :P

 

Look, I've given the concession that the new Tomb Raider took a queue from Uncharted in cinematic presentation (and to some extent combat, while keeping its own design in exploration and puzzles). But you can really tell me you don't see how Uncharted came about because of Tomb Raider? It carries the very same theme of a world travelling treasure hunter and now you would assert this is just a coincidence? Sure there's Indiana Jones, but games more often take their inspiration from within their own media, so it can't be denied that a video game about an exporer (Tomb Raider) was an influence for Naughty Dog to come up with Uncharted.

There are two ways to look at this:

* Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted both borrowed from Indiana Jones, each in their own way, or...

* considering Tomb Raider came first and was first to implement the Indiana Jones formula in 3D gaming form, Uncharted in succession took inspiration from Indy, but through TR in how to create it in gaming context for action and platforming, in which they adapted their own approach.

You might suggest the first proposition, but video games don't exist in a void. Tomb Raider already had a firmly established presence in the gaming landscape, so for that to be unnoticed by ND in concepting their own IP is highly improbable.

Oh and guess this is once again relevant :P

 

AdobeArtist

I never said Uncharted didn't borrow from TR :? In fact I said it was similar because of exploration and puzzles, the very things you just said

[QUOTE="Cloud567kar"]

Even though Uncharted devs said they looked at old tomb raider on where to start.

seanmcloughlin

Yeah for exploration and puzzles etc.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

 

Look, I've given the concession that the new Tomb Raider took a queue from Uncharted in cinematic presentation (and to some extent combat, while keeping its own design in exploration and puzzles). But you can really tell me you don't see how Uncharted came about because of Tomb Raider? It carries the very same theme of a world travelling treasure hunter and now you would assert this is just a coincidence? Sure there's Indiana Jones, but games more often take their inspiration from within their own media, so it can't be denied that a video game about an exporer (Tomb Raider) was an influence for Naughty Dog to come up with Uncharted.

There are two ways to look at this:

* Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted both borrowed from Indiana Jones, each in their own way, or...

* considering Tomb Raider came first and was first to implement the Indiana Jones formula in 3D gaming form, Uncharted in succession took inspiration from Indy, but through TR in how to create it in gaming context for action and platforming, in which they adapted their own approach.

You might suggest the first proposition, but video games don't exist in a void. Tomb Raider already had a firmly established presence in the gaming landscape, so for that to be unnoticed by ND in concepting their own IP is highly improbable.

Oh and guess this is once again relevant :P

 

seanmcloughlin

I never said Uncharted didn't borrow from TR :? In fact I said it was similar because of exploration and puzzles, the very things you just said

Would you agree then that while Uncharted did combat and production quality (cinematics) better, the pre-reboot TR games did platforming, exploration, and puzzles better?

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

 

Look, I've given the concession that the new Tomb Raider took a queue from Uncharted in cinematic presentation (and to some extent combat, while keeping its own design in exploration and puzzles). But you can really tell me you don't see how Uncharted came about because of Tomb Raider? It carries the very same theme of a world travelling treasure hunter and now you would assert this is just a coincidence? Sure there's Indiana Jones, but games more often take their inspiration from within their own media, so it can't be denied that a video game about an exporer (Tomb Raider) was an influence for Naughty Dog to come up with Uncharted.

There are two ways to look at this:

* Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted both borrowed from Indiana Jones, each in their own way, or...

* considering Tomb Raider came first and was first to implement the Indiana Jones formula in 3D gaming form, Uncharted in succession took inspiration from Indy, but through TR in how to create it in gaming context for action and platforming, in which they adapted their own approach.

You might suggest the first proposition, but video games don't exist in a void. Tomb Raider already had a firmly established presence in the gaming landscape, so for that to be unnoticed by ND in concepting their own IP is highly improbable.

Oh and guess this is once again relevant :P

 

AdobeArtist

I never said Uncharted didn't borrow from TR :? In fact I said it was similar because of exploration and puzzles, the very things you just said

Would you agree then that while Uncharted did combat and production quality (cinematics) better, the pre-reboot TR games did platforming, exploration, and puzzles better?

Yes I would agree to that. Older TR games ahd far better puzzles and exploration and that was the point of them. They were never combat games with exploration and puzzles, they were exploration and puzzle/platforming games with occasionaly combat.

The combat in the new TR is also miles ahead again BUT I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing as they forced you into so many unnecessary battles. The game is at its worst when you're hiding behind a piece of cover and killing wave after wave of ziplining in enemies. 

Are you posting Christmas tree instead of pyramid now?rjdofu

What Christmas Tree? :P

[spoiler] No, at this point I just gave up on the bet and decided to just make all my posts at least centered. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

I never said Uncharted didn't borrow from TR :? In fact I said it was similar because of exploration and puzzles, the very things you just said

seanmcloughlin

Would you agree then that while Uncharted did combat and production quality (cinematics) better, the pre-reboot TR games did platforming, exploration, and puzzles better?

Yes I would agree to that. Older TR games ahd far better puzzles and exploration and that was the point of them. They were never combat games with exploration and puzzles, they were exploration and puzzle/platforming games with occasionaly combat.

The combat in the new TR is also miles ahead again BUT I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing as they forced you into so many unnecessary battles. The game is at its worst when you're hiding behind a piece of cover and killing wave after wave of ziplining in enemies. 

The amount of combat there should be in relation to exploration/platforming/puzzles is debatable. But what can't be argued is that combat has always been a part of the Tomb Raider experience, fans always talk about Lara and her dual pistols, and even favourite weapons, from shotgun to assault rifle. And we can be pretty sure combat always will be, they are never going to make a platforming/puzzles only type of design for the games.

So if we gotta have it, why have to persistently suffer through clunky mechanics and outdated lock-on? Isn't it better that they improved this aspect of the series (combat to exploration balance not withstanding), especially if they could do so without sacrificing the part we mainly go to, the exploration and puzzles? Seems like win/win to me.

I will admit, the puzzles, namely those found in the hidden tombs, are weak. They don't provide much challenge as I found them all easy to figure out the solutions. Only a couple I had to try a few times to master the precise timing required, like the one using wind to lift a platform. But the platforming in wide open environments, with multiple routes to take (once gear has been acquired), in being able to scale, swing, shimmy, and pole swing is still what I've come to expect and enjoy from a Tomb Raider game. The exploration is further augmented by the "metroidvania" design, where you have to acquire the proper gear and revisit each area of the island to fully explore it and discover all its secrets.

As always (ratio aside) combat and exploration/puzzles has always been two seperate situations of the game, where you find yourself engaging in one or the other. That is, once the combat scenario is beaten and the enemies are dispatched, you're free to roam around and explore the enviornment, to find your way to the next zone, as well as see what goodies are nested within. And being how seperated they are, each gets its own treatment, where the combat that needed the most improvement receives the most drastic overhaul, while the other (exploration/puzzles) remains mostly familiar, albeit reimagined in modern context.

Just got 100% on hard difficulty. A great game! There was a few too many QTE's and cut scenes but I guess they put those in to keep the $ony crowd happy :P

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

-Camera. It follows every step and headbob and it's sickening.
-Story and inconsistancies. Along with these college graduates being dumber than a bag of rocks, letting you collect books and various other items tells you what's going on but Lara doesn't recognize any of it. Literally everything was told when the game was like half-way done, but none of the stuff you discover is recognized by the game in it's narrative.
-General action sequences. Uncharted copy to the core. I don't enjoy holding forward until the scripted sequence is finished the first time, I don't enjoy them now. Also when entering certain places, it's mandatory to light a torch and slowly walk every, single, time. It's annoying when backtracking.
-Poorly designed tombs. Complete one simple puzzle and get a shiny gun part/treasure map. Congradulations, Tomb Raided! That's a slap to the face.
-Some gameplay issues. There's never any hidden enemies/surprises. If I don't see any enemies but there are some, Lara will crouch whether I like it or not. While the automatic cover isn't as bad as RE:ORC, it's still sticky around some objects. A personal one for me, but when you're just out of reach of a ledge/platform but the character floats to it anyway, that's an immersion breaker. Some enemies are bullet sponges but that's not a big issue. The shotgun being useless unless they're within 12 inches of you is pretty annoying.

seanmcloughlin

Honestly all those complaints are what I felt too.

-The camera is sickening, literally, I talked to some guys on NeoGaf and they said it literall made them vomit. Whoever implemented that is a fvcking idiot and it's extremely obnoxious in some cases. You can never just run and enjoy the scenery without that feeling of someone running behind you with a video camera, even in the cutscenes it's horribly implemented. Like trying to emulate those paranormal activity, chronicle,cloverfield scenarios (not THAT bad though) but it bounces around her face a lot

-Story and characters are the two big ones for me. The story first of all isn't that interesting, but TR has never had award winning stories so it's forgivable I guess. I never read or listened to a single collectible, her voice was annoying, so I wouldn't know about that part.

-It definitely tried to do the whole Uncharted thing. Anyone who says it didn't is a liar or in a lot of denial because it's so similar you can't not see it. BUT I think it does some of the platforming in the set pieces better than Uncharted, but I still don't like those sliding sequences and I hate any game that has a sequences running to or away from the camera as ground breaks under you. hated it in God of War games, uncharted and now TR. Those are such a cop out and a huge cliche almost at this point when doing set pieces.

-Tombs, yeah they're pretty poor. A nice distraction but very simple and over all too quick. Also the cave paintings might as well say "SECRET TOMB OVER HERE" they're not exactly a secret really are they? :?

-The whole walking and crouching and lighting torch thing on her own bugged me too, I didn't like how the game wrestled control from me in that regard. I would like a crouch button and determine when she hides or crawls etc. 

This part annoyed me...

[spoiler] when grim died pushing the guy off the platform, the gameplay afterwards you can see the bottom of the drop he jumped off and it's like 20 feet. No way would either of the guys have died and worst of all he's magically gone too and there is literally no further he could have fallen, It's a flat basin at the bottom. [/spoiler]

Overall the material for the perfect TR game and the one I expected is all there but put in the wrong order and executed differently than I wanted.

I think I might have posted this before but I will again because it has a lot of these points in it so you can see if you agree with it 

I posted this on gamefaq originally.

I'm not bashing the game, I think it's a good game (MP aside) but I'm replaying the main story line, no collecting, nothing, just from one main objective to the next and it's more controlling than Uncharted, any COD game, AC3's campaign objectives, Max Payne 3 and the infinite doors, anything really, by far. 

You can hardly move forward for more than a minute without the game taking control in one form or another.


-You lose camera control constantly.

-The game will slow Lara down and point the camera in some direction just to show you something, usually not of importance, just a view. 

-Lara walks slow all the time, and by all I mean nearly half the campaign is her walking slowly. 

-Time slows down for so many actions, be it for a shooting sequence, grabbing onto a ledge or during an interactive cutscene so you can shoot something in your path.

-QTE's all over the place.

-Cutscene after cutscene, some you can skip, some you can't.

-A ridiculous amount of scripted events, nearly everything is heavily scripted unless you stop to shoot a few guys, then you are free to move about the confined area as you please.

-Finally, is how you ALWAYS know when to expect danger because she crouches.


I know this game is very open in the sense that you don't have to follow the main objective, and it's great for it. This is referring to the main campaign only.

I didn't notice any of this at all when playing the first time around because I took my time to explore, look around, enjoy the game. It's crazy how little freedom you really have because it doesn't seem like it until you just follow the main story path.

Still a good game, no doubt, just extremely scripted.

The amount of combat there should be in relation to exploration/platforming/puzzles is debatable. But what can't be argued is that combat has always been a part of the Tomb Raider experience, fans always talk about Lara and her dual pistols, and even favourite weapons, from shotgun to assault rifle. And we can be pretty sure combat always will be, they are never going to make a platforming/puzzles only type of design for the games.

So if we gotta have it, why have to persistently suffer through clunky mechanics and outdated lock-on? Isn't it better that they improved this aspect of the series (combat to exploration balance not withstanding), especially if they could do so without sacrificing the part we mainly go to, the exploration and puzzles? Seems like win/win to me.

I will admit, the puzzles, namely those found in the hidden tombs, are weak. They don't provide much challenge as I found them all easy to figure out the solutions. Only a couple I had to try a few times to master the precise timing required, like the one using wind to lift a platform. But the platforming in wide open environments, with multiple routes to take (once gear has been acquired), in being able to scale, swing, shimmy, and pole swing is still what I've come to expect and enjoy from a Tomb Raider game. The exploration is further augmented by the "metroidvania" design, where you have to acquire the proper gear and revisit each area of the island to fully explore it and discover all its secrets.

As always (ratio aside) combat and exploration/puzzles has always been two seperate situations of the game, where you find yourself engaging in one or the other. That is, once the combat scenario is beaten and the enemies are dispatched, you're free to roam around and explore the enviornment, to find your way to the next zone, as well as see what goodies are nested within. And being how seperated they are, each gets its own treatment, where the combat that needed the most improvement receives the most drastic overhaul, while the other (exploration/puzzles) remains mostly familiar, albeit reimagined in modern context.

AdobeArtist

I never said the combat should be omitted but it IS possible to have great combat and not have it shoved in our faces every 5 seconds. There are times and you can't deny it when you're sitting behind one piece of cover and headshotting dude after dude and knocking them off zip lines. Sure the combat is great for it, but the game itself as a whole doesn't need it. TR games, yes, have always had combat, BUT it wasn't the main focus. Older games had combat as sort of a break in puzzles, now it's puzzles are a break in combat and that fundamental shift is not what a TR game should have.

They have indeed always been separate, but Lara is a Tomb Raider and it's what she does best, they dont' promote her as a killer or glorify it in any way. This game does do that. When you have her run and say "Run you B@stards I'm coming for all of you" like she actually enjoys killing them, you just can't feel sorry for that character anymore.

When the platforming is in full swing it's pretty magical and I really wish there was just more of it on its own and not have it as segways through set pieces. When you're doing most of your platforming while everything blows up around you or collapses, it's not proper platforming. It's an ends to a means and just ushers you through said set pieces. Just Lara on her own in the wild exploring and platforming the way you want her to is the best part of the game.

I know you're a huge fan of the series and this game as well, but please stop trying to explain away obvious problems with the game. It's possible to have issueas and flaws and still be a fun experience. It's almost as if people are afraid to say certain aspects are bad in case others think they hate the game or they're afraid to admit some parts are disappointing and lackluster. 

I posted this on gamefaq originally.

I'm not bashing the game, I think it's a good game (MP aside) but I'm replaying the main story line, no collecting, nothing, just from one main objective to the next and it's more controlling than Uncharted, any COD game, AC3's campaign objectives, Max Payne 3 and the infinite doors, anything really, by far. 

You can hardly move forward for more than a minute without the game taking control in one form or another.


-You lose camera control constantly.
-The game will slow Lara down and point the camera in some direction just to show you something, usually not of importance, just a view. 
-Lara walks slow all the time, and by all I mean nearly half the campaign is her walking slowly. 
-Time slows down for so many actions, be it for a shooting sequence, grabbing onto a ledge or during an interactive cutscene so you can shoot something in your path.
-QTE's all over the place.
-Cutscene after cutscene, some you can skip, some you can't.
-A ridiculous amount of scripted events, nearly everything is heavily scripted unless you stop to shoot a few guys, then you are free to move about the confined area as you please.
-Finally, is how you ALWAYS know when to expect danger because she crouches.


I know this game is very open in the sense that you don't have to follow the main objective, and it's great for it. This is referring to the main campaign only.
I didn't notice any of this at all when playing the first time around because I took my time to explore, look around, enjoy the game. It's crazy how little freedom you really have because it doesn't seem like it until you just follow the main story path.
Still a good game, no doubt, just extremely scripted.

23Jarek23

Exactly, well said. These are the issues that keep coming up for people. Some seem to be able to ignore them and get on with it while others like me can't get passed how badly designed some parts are. 

-Losing control of Lara is one of the biggest fvcking No Nos in the game. Lara ducking, crouching, walking and crawling are all out of your control. The game just decides "oh here let me take control of her here for a second cos you might miss the important part we really want you to see" You might as well have had the dev sit next to you and take the controller from you while you watched him play the game (exaggeration I know but you get the point) And yeah it really lweads to no surprises when she crouches before you actually know there are enemies there, ruins the tension and suspense.

-Any sort of slow mo in a game where you don't have super powers or a special ability is ret@rded right off the bat. I have no idea why games do it because it doesn't feel as cinematic as they think and it just makes the game easier by giving you more time to react to something you should have the skills to overcome already

-QTEs yeah they're the big ugly of the game. Not much else to say really.

-Cutscenes I can forgive to an extent because that's just what happens in a very story driven experience. What I can't stand is the sh!t content of the cutscenes. bad dialogue, bad characters, bad voice acting, bad plot. I still have no idea why lara goes to save her friends time and again when they never once lift a finger to help her. She frees them from a cell/cage/prison over a fiery lake beneath them. And after that they're ready to leave the island without her and never go to help her in her goals. Awful awful characters.

-one last thing I hate is that not once did I feel like Lara was in peril. When you're crossing the waterfall part and you just hold forward but it's supposed to be this tense moment of "Oh god will she even make it?" I was there thinking, "come on and run across already,fvck". And then of course she slips and falls head first into another sliding set piece. And boy are there many of them, sliding away or towards the camera while shooting out barriers because they needed and excuse for you to use the shotgun. 

Honestly, it's a great game but it has so many little issues that add up and annoy me. And on my second playthrough I notice them so much more