Official TOMB RAIDER Hype Thread (8.5 @ GS, Final Hours ep.6)

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1901 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

Finally we have an actual insightful exploration into the conundrum of Lara's character development. Well said, silentobi, in discerning the difference between Lara's internal feelings and her external actions, which aren't always one and the same. It is far more often people act against their wishes, but act all the same because of what circumstance demands.

And given how the scavengers relentlessly continue to press Lara, forcing her grow past her misgivings, what did anyone expect? For her to cry out, "please don't attack me now, I'm still sorting out my feelings from a horrible experience I just had!!" ??

I think it also comes down to balancing story pacing with game pacing. It's not like a movie or book where the audience can sit back and take in the psychological dilemma from a gradually transitioned character exposition. This is a game after all and the player has to be involved in the action. I mean how long can Lara linger on her personal trauma (again factoring in the relentless threats of the scavengers)? 3 hours? 5 or 10? Were people really expecting half the game to be Lara wallowing in self pity?

I think people forget the point is that from the horrors Lara endures, she's supposed to grow from her experiences and be strengthened by them. May be the pacing isn't "perfect" but there is a sense of character progression which is more than can be said for most action gaming characters, especially given the medium. The set pieces do still serve their purpose, though I would say more for subtext of the character development rather than the game mechanics.

AdobeArtist

Whenever you post stuff like this it always sounds like you're just trying to explain away everything rather than actually see it as criticism and assept it for that. If we're really to believe Lara's survival instincts and training then why does she never think to put on some warmer clothes? or why does she constantly have the 2 way radio turned on? These go against any basic survival training.

The game is still good and I still find myself coming back for more, but there are some obvious major flaws in the game that can't be denied. In a game designed to show her roots and her starting out point it goes right back into the typical gaming tropes of modern times all too quickly. It has character progression but not a whoe lot of it, Lara goes from not understanding a whole lot to suddenly being thrown head first into everything and becoming rather good at it very fast. Which to me doesn't sound like the game the devs protrayed it as. Not only that but the cutscenes often contradict what the gameplay is dictating. Lara shows apprehension in climbing a huge tower and yet she does it anyway without second guessing.

And I don't know about you but if I suffered a series of falls and attacks like that I wouldn't be able to just walk up and away from it and back into the action agains o quickly, sure it's a game but when the game tries to portray a realistic young woman coming of age these things make me feel very disconnected from her and she feels more like a parod of herself rather than driving the emotion the game so desperately needs.

I get a lot of people enjoy the game and it's annoying seeing people b!tch and moan about it but I feel some people have real genuine criticisms that bug them.

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#1902 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52451 Posts

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

jhonMalcovich
._.
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#1903 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara lol.gif

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#1904 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

jhonMalcovich

Was he actually Russian?

In any case have you seen the rest of the characters in the game? :? They're all horrible stereotypes. the nerdy white guy with glasses who is good with electronics, the sassy black girl, the hearty scots man who seems to love his drink and his brawling, the almost voodoo like spiritual maori type guy and the over confident know it all architect there to be wrong and try and make Lara look better.

The only reason lara is an alright character in te game is because the rest of the characters are terrible.

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#1905 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

freedomfreak

._.

It´s not funny I agree. The guy was saying, in Russian, that Lara was remembering him his SISTER !!! COME ON :evil:

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#1906 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

seanmcloughlin

Was he actually Russian?

In any case have you seen the rest of the characters in the game? :? They're all horrible stereotypes. the nerdy white guy with glasses who is good with electronics, the sassy black girl, the hearty scots man who seems to love his drink and his brawling, the almost voodoo like spiritual maori type guy and the over confident know it all architect there to be wrong and try and make Lara look better.

The only reason lara is an alright character in te game is because the rest of the characters are terrible.

Yeh. I noticed that too. You omited the coward guy, the lead archelogist of the expedition.

Was he actually Russian?

100 percent. And there are many more in the game.

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#1907 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

jhonMalcovich

Was he actually Russian?

In any case have you seen the rest of the characters in the game? :? They're all horrible stereotypes. the nerdy white guy with glasses who is good with electronics, the sassy black girl, the hearty scots man who seems to love his drink and his brawling, the almost voodoo like spiritual maori type guy and the over confident know it all architect there to be wrong and try and make Lara look better.

The only reason lara is an alright character in te game is because the rest of the characters are terrible.

Yeh. I noticed that too. You omited the coward guy, the lead archelogist of the expedition.

That's the over confident guy I mentioned

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jhonMalcovich

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#1908 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Was he actually Russian?

In any case have you seen the rest of the characters in the game? :? They're all horrible stereotypes. the nerdy white guy with glasses who is good with electronics, the sassy black girl, the hearty scots man who seems to love his drink and his brawling, the almost voodoo like spiritual maori type guy and the over confident know it all architect there to be wrong and try and make Lara look better.

The only reason lara is an alright character in te game is because the rest of the characters are terrible.

seanmcloughlin

Yeh. I noticed that too. You omited the coward guy, the lead archelogist of the expedition.

That's the over confident guy I mentioned

My bad.

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#1909 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

What irks me most is that the guy who tried to rape Lara hence was her first kill was RUSSIAN. Seriously, Crystal Dinamics, can we stray away from Holliwoods cliches once ?

I mean I am ok with this nonsense that Russians try to conquer the world and other ****, but seriously, are Russians rapists now too ? Common on. Give us a break.

The funny stuff is Mathias, the boogeyman, as I understood, is an American who commands an army of evil russians to hunt and rape Lara :lol:

seanmcloughlin

Was he actually Russian?

In any case have you seen the rest of the characters in the game? :? They're all horrible stereotypes. the nerdy white guy with glasses who is good with electronics, the sassy black girl, the hearty scots man who seems to love his drink and his brawling, the almost voodoo like spiritual maori type guy and the over confident know it all architect there to be wrong and try and make Lara look better.

The only reason lara is an alright character in te game is because the rest of the characters are terrible.

Lara has the worst friends ever, I even prefer the ones from Far Cry 3.

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#1910 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

Lara has the worst friends ever, I even prefer the ones from Far Cry 3.

mitu123

lol both have a pretty terrible cast but yeah, they're less annoying. Mainly because you see less of them

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#1911 megaspiderweb09
Member since 2009 • 3686 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnPaBAoG7w

So Lara croft went from Tomb Explorer to Mass murderer.......Interesting outlook, i may not have played this game yet but i have followed the videos from the inception to its release and while the game looks fun, its a betrayal of her origins. Since when did Lara go Gears of War meets Uncharted on us?

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#1912 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52451 Posts
Did you find the last GPS cache, Adobe?
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#1913 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

Did you find the last GPS cache, Adobe?freedomfreak

Have to wait till I get home to cross reference the maps. Thing is I still might not be able to right away. The point I'm at in the game being...

[spoiler]
after Sam undergoes the fire ritual, and Lara is trapped in the geothermal caverns. I came across 2 camps there but I recall neither allows for fast travel at the moment. I'll have to wait till I can free roam again. But I am loving this chapter of the story, including the part where you make the bridge run with Roth covering you with a sniper rifle :)
[/spoiler]

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#1914 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52451 Posts

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Did you find the last GPS cache, Adobe?AdobeArtist

Have to wait till I get home to cross reference the maps. Thing is I still might not be able to right away. The point I'm at in the game being...

[spoiler]
after Sam undergoes the fire ritual, and Lara is trapped in the geothermal caverns. I came across 2 camps there but I recall neither allows for fast travel at the moment. I'll have to wait till I can free roam again. But I am loving this chapter of the story, including the part where you make the bridge run with Roth covering you with a sniper rifle :)
[/spoiler]

Yeah, that part was just badass. Very exciting stuff.
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#1915 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

Oh btw, aside from collectibles, how are you all doing in completing challenges? So far I completed:

[spoiler]
destroying all the sirens in shantytown
destroying all effigies in shanty town
lighting up all those statues in mountain village
collecting all the eggs from the nests in mountain village
destrying all the lanterns in the hub leading to mountain village

I still need to find 3 more skull totems in the coastal forest, that I'll go back for. But for the life of me I can't figure out what the "Fire Starter" challenge is in the geothermal caverns. I thought it might have something to do with igniting the gas pockets but no such luck so far.
[/spoiler]

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#1916 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52451 Posts

Oh btw, aside from collectibles, how are you all doing in completing challenges? So far I completed:

[spoiler]
destroying all the sirens in shantytown
destroying all effigies in shanty town
lighting up all those statues in mountain village
collecting all the eggs from the nests in mountain village
destrying all the lanterns in the hub leading to mountain village

I still need to find 3 more skull totems in the coastal forest, that I'll go back for. But for the life of me I can't figure out what the "Fire Starter" challenge is in the geothermal caverns. I thought it might have something to do with igniting the gas pockets but no such luck so far.
[/spoiler]

AdobeArtist
I think I've completed 2 :P I'll focus on them later, but I really wanted to start another playthrough. [spoiler] The "Firestarter" has something to do with bags hanging around, iirc. You have to light 'em up. [/spoiler]
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#1917 deactivated-660c2894dc19c
Member since 2004 • 2190 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnPaBAoG7w

So Lara croft went from Tomb Explorer to Mass murderer.......Interesting outlook, i may not have played this game yet but i have followed the videos from the inception to its release and while the game looks fun, its a betrayal of her origins. Since when did Lara go Gears of War meets Uncharted on us?

megaspiderweb09

She was a mass murderer from the start. Now they just added good combat mechanics to help her even more in her killing business.

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#1918 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnPaBAoG7w

So Lara croft went from Tomb Explorer to Mass murderer.......Interesting outlook, i may not have played this game yet but i have followed the videos from the inception to its release and while the game looks fun, its a betrayal of her origins. Since when did Lara go Gears of War meets Uncharted on us?

megaspiderweb09
Ever since it became a reboot.
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#1919 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
Adobe as this will reach you a couple of days faster than any other form of communication, just letting you know I stickied the GOW thread for a bit! :P
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#1920 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

Adobe as this will reach you a couple of days faster than any other form of communication, just letting you know I stickied the GOW thread for a bit! :Pblue_hazy_basic

haha, I saw that. I am still taking a gander at the rest of SW, so don't anyone be thinkin I'm absent ;)

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#1921 jhonMalcovich
Member since 2010 • 7090 Posts

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Adobe as this will reach you a couple of days faster than any other form of communication, just letting you know I stickied the GOW thread for a bit! :PAdobeArtist

haha, I saw that. I am still taking a gander at the rest of SW, so don't anyone be thinkin I'm absent ;)

So no Tomb Raider rants threads then :(

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#1922 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Adobe as this will reach you a couple of days faster than any other form of communication, just letting you know I stickied the GOW thread for a bit! :PjhonMalcovich

haha, I saw that. I am still taking a gander at the rest of SW, so don't anyone be thinkin I'm absent ;)

So no Tomb Raider rants threads then :(

:lol:
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#1923 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

played some more, game is still terrible.

pretty disappointed that this is no uncharted 2.

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#1924 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

For the PC folks out there, I just appeared to have fixed the nasty ass slowdown on nvidia cards with tesselation/hair physics...not 100% sure, but its workign at next to no framerate loss so far...will keep testing.

 

Add TombRaider.exe to the Hitman Absolution profile in Nvidia Inspector.

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#1925 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

For the PC folks out there, I just appeared to have fixed the nasty ass slowdown on nvidia cards with tesselation/hair physics...not 100% sure, but its workign at next to no framerate loss so far...will keep testing.

Add TombRaider.exe to the Hitman Absolution profile in Nvidia Inspector.

wis3boi

Not surprising, I've had to do things like this before.

Although it was mostly for UE3 based games.

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#1926 burgeg
Member since 2005 • 3599 Posts

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

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#1927 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

burgeg

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

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#1928 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

burgeg

Things are different these days, back then movies and games were evry different. Now they are much more similar and in an attempt to give that cinematic feel and constant momentum and drive they have to keep things simple and straightforward. 

Back then I think devs tried to make gamers think more and I agree with you, I can remember most of TR II off the top of my head and it had much better levels. BUT you have to take the controls into mind. As controls got better the level design changed too, imagine the current lara's moveset superimposed into TR 1 or 2 and she would get around that environment much easier 

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#1929 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

seanmcloughlin

Things are different these days, back then movies and games were evry different. Now they are much more similar and in an attempt to give that cinematic feel and constant momentum and drive they have to keep things simple and straightforward.

Back then I think devs tried to make gamers think more and I agree with you, I can remember most of TR II off the top of my head and it had much better levels. BUT you have to take the controls into mind. As controls got better the level design changed too, imagine the current lara's moveset superimposed into TR 1 or 2 and she would get around that environment much easier

I remember locking the buttler in the freezer.

Then he would proceed to make loud guttural sounds and fart.

Eidos was amazing.

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#1930 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26650 Posts

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

ReadingRainbow4

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

 

It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

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ReadingRainbow4

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#1931 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

DragonfireXZ95

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#1932 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26650 Posts

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

ReadingRainbow4

It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

I never played UC3, but that's bad, because UC2 was terribly linear.
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ReadingRainbow4

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#1933 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

DragonfireXZ95

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

I never played UC3, but that's bad, because UC2 was terribly linear.

eh it was, but it was still great fun.

Tombraider was always linear honestly. aside from the mansion training area.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#1934 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26650 Posts

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

ReadingRainbow4

I never played UC3, but that's bad, because UC2 was terribly linear.

eh it was, but it was still great fun.

Tombraider was always linear honestly. aside from the mansion training area.

Meh, I wouldn't bother replaying through UC2, again. It was a one-and-done deal for me.
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megaspiderweb09

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#1935 megaspiderweb09
Member since 2009 • 3686 Posts

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

seanmcloughlin

Things are different these days, back then movies and games were evry different. Now they are much more similar and in an attempt to give that cinematic feel and constant momentum and drive they have to keep things simple and straightforward. 

Back then I think devs tried to make gamers think more and I agree with you, I can remember most of TR II off the top of my head and it had much better levels. BUT you have to take the controls into mind. As controls got better the level design changed too, imagine the current lara's moveset superimposed into TR 1 or 2 and she would get around that environment much easier 

I wonder where those influence came from ?

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mitu123

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#1936 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

ReadingRainbow4

It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

Oh they did and UC3 isn't as good as UC2.
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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1937 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

 

I remember locking the buttler in the freezer.

Then he would proceed to make loud guttural sounds and fart.

Eidos was amazing.

ReadingRainbow4

I think everyone did that :P but even that is a perfect example, her home was considered your tutorial, it's one of the best forms of a tutorial around, because you can just freely explore her house and it felt like a proper level. You never felt like you were being forced to do anything or essentially being taught but you really were. Setting up an obstacle course so you could learn the controls was genius cos it made you want to get better.

Not like today where the games go into slow mo and flash all these things in your face of "F to do this" etc. 

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1938 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

So I'm replaying Tomb Raider 1 for the first time in years right now. I'm playing the reboot on my PS3 and TR1 on my Vita. Playing the two games at around the same time I've come to a conclusion. Good lord the difference in quality of the level design is HUGE.

Just for clarification, I'm not complementing the reboot here. Really is sad to see how much smarter the level design was in 1996. Kinda pathetic really. TR1 may be dated in terms of graphics, presentation and controls, but the level design really makes the new Tomb Raider look horrible. So much more linear, easier and dumber. But hey, the masses love super linear, simple games with quick gratification. Heaven forbid a game have some challenge and force you to think.

A game with the graphics, presentation, controls and action of the reboot combined with the level design and challenge of the original games would be beyond awesome. But sadly, the sequel will probably just stick to the style of the reboot. Well at least the reboot is still a nice fun ride, so that's something.

megaspiderweb09

Things are different these days, back then movies and games were evry different. Now they are much more similar and in an attempt to give that cinematic feel and constant momentum and drive they have to keep things simple and straightforward. 

Back then I think devs tried to make gamers think more and I agree with you, I can remember most of TR II off the top of my head and it had much better levels. BUT you have to take the controls into mind. As controls got better the level design changed too, imagine the current lara's moveset superimposed into TR 1 or 2 and she would get around that environment much easier 

I wonder where those influence came from ?

The Uncharted influence is undeniable, anyone who says it doesn't try to capture some of that uncharted magic is a liar and in denial. 

BUT it also does it a lot better than Uncharted and there is a lot more to the game than set pieces, in fact the game takes a LOT of stuff from other games. I can get vibes or Dead space, Dark Souls and even Arkham City in it

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mitu123

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#1939 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

For the PC folks out there, I just appeared to have fixed the nasty ass slowdown on nvidia cards with tesselation/hair physics...not 100% sure, but its workign at next to no framerate loss so far...will keep testing.

 

Add TombRaider.exe to the Hitman Absolution profile in Nvidia Inspector.

wis3boi
Gonna try it now.
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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1940 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

This isn't just with 1 genre either, it's an industry wide, genre wide cop-out.

 

ReadingRainbow4

It's unfortunate that the Uncharted games are also guilty of this same thing. Too bad the linear games are taking over.

I'm a big of of UC2, but I heared they really went overboard with uc3.

 

Jesus did they ever. That game is a bloated mess, nowhere near the level U2 was at

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padaporra

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#1941 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

CD is great with level design. Their work in Underworld and Anniversary was amazing, especially the latter. There is a extra in this in which game with the original creator of Tomb Raider and a CD guy compare Anniversary with TR1. Noting how a lot of areas were very simple in the original and how they made everything much bigger and more intricate.

I already commented what I think about this in the reboot. They changed how they approach plataforming/level design. They tried to make the areas more real, more believable. So it's just natural it lost complexity. When you can put ramps, ledges, plataforms everywhere without thinking about anything it's easier to make a level than when it has to make sense. But they need to do it. They don't have to get it 100% right the first time, I believe they set this game with enough tools to great improve this aspect, so they should use DLCs to improve their work.

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RyanShazam

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#1942 RyanShazam
Member since 2006 • 6498 Posts

Im at 55% complete. I wonder how much more there is to go story wise. Obviously 45% for full completion lol

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padaporra

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#1943 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

Im at 55% complete. I wonder how much more there is to go story wise. Obviously 45% for full completion lol

RyanShazam



I finished it with 72%. But you might finish with less.  

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RyanShazam

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#1944 RyanShazam
Member since 2006 • 6498 Posts

[QUOTE="RyanShazam"]

Im at 55% complete. I wonder how much more there is to go story wise. Obviously 45% for full completion lol

padaporra



I finished it with 72%. But you might finish with less.  

I've been doing quite a bit of exploring but i'm sure I still missed quite a bit of stuff. This game has a lot to do lol

[spoiler] I just got to the boat and met up with all my buddies. [/spoiler]

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wis3boi

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#1945 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

For the PC folks out there, I just appeared to have fixed the nasty ass slowdown on nvidia cards with tesselation/hair physics...not 100% sure, but its workign at next to no framerate loss so far...will keep testing.

 

Add TombRaider.exe to the Hitman Absolution profile in Nvidia Inspector.

mitu123

Gonna try it now.

Think it was just a cooincidence for me, after playing for another hour or so, it started sh!t again, had to do a full reboot.

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1946 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

Mitu123 has brought to light that anyone with the PC version should play in windowed mode. In fullscreen you don't get the full graphical features and the lens flares, bloom and water/blood effects on camera are removed. Only in windowed mode will you be able to see them. Examples:


tombraider2013030800242.jpgtombraider2013030800275.jpgtombraider2013030800250.jpgtombraider2013030800244.jpg

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Rocker6

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#1947 Rocker6
Member since 2009 • 13358 Posts

Mitu123 has brought to light that anyone with the PC version should play in windowed mode. In fullscreen you don't get the full graphical features and the lens flares, bloom and water/blood effects on camera are removed. Only in windowed mode will you be able to see them. Examples:

seanmcloughlin

They better get that fixed by the time I get the game!

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#1948 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Mitu123 has brought to light that anyone with the PC version should play in windowed mode. In fullscreen you don't get the full graphical features and the lens flares, bloom and water/blood effects on camera are removed. Only in windowed mode will you be able to see them. Examples:

Rocker6

They better get that fixed by the time I get the game!

The PC version is marred with problems. Especially on Nvidia. the game crashes when using tessellation or the newest drivers, TressFX runs like total sh!t and now this. Such a shame

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wis3boi

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#1949 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

 

Mitu123 has brought to light that anyone with the PC version should play in windowed mode. In fullscreen you don't get the full graphical features and the lens flares, bloom and water/blood effects on camera are removed. Only in windowed mode will you be able to see them. Examples:

seanmcloughlin

They better get that fixed by the time I get the game!

i'm gonna stop playing thegame i think, for now, and start getting into farcry 3 and ME3 platinum co-op until they patch it up or get new drivers out

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padaporra

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#1950 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

Wow, I missed those things! I thought they were taken out from the game.