Nintendo shares plunge 18% - down to ¥11,935

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#1 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

Shares of Japan's Nintendo have plunged 18% in early trade on Monday after the gaming giant issued a profit warning.

On Friday, Nintendo said it expects to make an operating loss of 35bn yen ($335m; £205m) for the financial year ending 31 March 2014.

It had initially forecast an operating profit of 100bn yen for the period.

The company blamed weaker-than-expected sales of its Wii U console during the holiday season for the downgrade in its earnings forecast.

As a result, it lowered its global Wii U sales forecast for the business year from nine million to 2.8 million units - a cut of nearly 70%.

Nintendo also reduced the sales forecast for its 3DS console from 18 million to 13.5 million units.

The firm's shares fell to as low as 11,935 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange on Monday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25805136

==========================================================================================

(Reuters) - Shares in Nintendo Co Ltd tumbled by nearly a fifth on Monday after it warned of a third straight year of operating losses, heaping pressure on the creator of "Super Mario" to abandon its policy of not licensing its software to rivals.

After the market close on Friday, the Kyoto-based company slashed its global Wii U sales forecast for the year to March 31 by almost 70 percent to 2.8 million units.

"Its console-based business model spells doom for stakeholders. It has no choice but to accept the change," Jefferies analysts wrote in a note. "We believe Mario on mobile is coming."

They raised their price target on Nintendo to 29,000 yen from 26,550 yen, with a 'buy' rating on expectations of a change in strategy. Nintendo has so far refused to allow its games to be played on consoles built by competitors or on tablets or other mobile devices that are increasingly used by gamers. At one stage, the shares fell as much as 18.5 percent. By 0104 GMT, the stock was down 11.9 percent at 12,900 yen. It was the most traded stock on the main board.

If it were to finish the day at that last traded price, it would mark its worst one-day decline since July 2011, wiping off about $2.3 billion from Nintendo's market capitalization.

Nintendo now expects an operating loss of 35 billion yen ($335.7 million), compared with an initial forecast for a 100 billion yen profit. The weak Wii U sales stand in sharp contrast to those of its predecessor,

Wii, which propelled Nintendo shares to a record high of 73,200 yen in November 2007. The stock has lost more than 80 percent since then.

The latest warning comes just three months after Nintendo reiterated its sales projections for the Wii U, counting on the console to revive its fortunes as Microsoft Corp released its new XBox One and Sony Corp launched its PlayStation 4. Nintendo also cut its sales forecast for its handheld 3DS to 13.5 million units from 18 million. It now forecast a full-year dividend of 100 yen, down from a previous estimate of 260 yen.

The Japanese game maker is to hold a management strategy presentation on January 30.

Some market participants thought the stock could go lower.

"You would have expected them to go down more and stayed down," said a hedge fund manager.

"Some people are buying on expectations (that Nintendo will change its strategy) ... but the chance of a change in the short-term is still very low," he said, adding that he would be interested in the stock if it fell below 10,000 yen.

($1 = 104.2700 Japanese yen)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A0J00V20140120

#2 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

Thanks to NeoGaf for the thread and news links.

Nintendo is in trouble and this time it can't be ignored.

"Nintendoooomed!" jokes won't save Sheep now, because now it's not a joke, and on January 30 there won't be any laughing from the Nintendo board of directors

#3 Edited by WitIsWisdom (3801 posts) -

So you are saying with stocks being at a 10 year low this is a perfect time to buy in... GREAT idea.

They will rise.

#4 Posted by bbkkristian (14955 posts) -

Dr. Doom would be proud.

#5 Posted by remiks00 (1912 posts) -

These DOom & Gloom threads are getting old....

Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft/PC Market will all be fine... smdh

#6 Edited by super600 (30718 posts) -

A big stock drop means nothing unless the company is near financial ruin which nintendo is not.Nintendo does have to fix the way they are running their business, but they are not doomed.Stocks rise because of good news and drop because of bad news. I expect nintendo's stock to rise or stabilize again in a week or so.

#7 Posted by Shinobishyguy (22488 posts) -

It's gonna be pretty interesting hearing the results of the investors meeting next week

#8 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26886 posts) -

Someone's jumping for joy about Nintendo's rough time, eh TC?

#9 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (25554 posts) -

The Future does not look bright for Nintendo. But they see it and restructuring will happen.

#10 Edited by mario-galaxys (614 posts) -

The stocks closed down 06.15% at 13,745 yen, so stock did went up since the 18% plunge.

#11 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

@super600 said:

A big stock drop means nothing unless the company is near financial ruin which nintendo is not.Nintendo does have to fix the way they are running their business, but they are not doomed.Stocks rise because of good news and drop because of bad news. I expect nintendo's stock to rise or stabilize again in a week or so.

But the article says Iwata is holding a corporate strategy meeting this January 30th, and just a couple days ago he said Nintendo cannot be in this business if they are "not winning" and that they need to restructure their business - and in his words, they are "studying mobile" alternatives.

All of this adds up to serious situation for Nintendo. The article is not saying they will completely vanish tomorrow, but this is more corporate action that they've taken in a long time in response to financial results, and considering the article just said that this is Nintendo's third year in a row with a huge Operating Loss, Iwata is not just apologizing (like he always does) but seems to be taking emergency action this time.

You and I may disagree whether things will get better or worse the next year for them, but you cannot deny there is more going on now on the side of Nintendo in response to financial results. Remember that Nintendo a while ago said they that they would never put their games on mobile - and now they are considering it. For Iwata to change so quickly means there is more pressure and urgency to bring in revenue and appease investors who cannot be happy hearing Nintendo has not hit a single projection or promise yet with 3DS and Wii U.

#12 Edited by MirkoS77 (7599 posts) -

@speak_low said:

@super600 said:

A big stock drop means nothing unless the company is near financial ruin which nintendo is not.Nintendo does have to fix the way they are running their business, but they are not doomed.Stocks rise because of good news and drop because of bad news. I expect nintendo's stock to rise or stabilize again in a week or so.

But the article says Iwata is holding a corporate strategy meeting this January 30th, and just a couple days ago he said Nintendo cannot be in this business if they are "not winning" and that they need to restructure their business - and in his words, they are "studying mobile" alternatives.

All of this adds up to serious situation for Nintendo. The article is not saying they will completely vanish tomorrow, but this is more corporate action that they've taken in a long time in response to financial results, and considering the article just said that this is Nintendo's third year in a row with a huge Operating Loss, Iwata is not just apologizing this time (like he always does) but seems to be taking emergency action this time.

You and I may disagree whether things will get better or worse the next year for them, but you cannot deny there is more going on now on the side of Nintendo in response to financial results. Remember that Nintendo a while ago said they that they would never put their games on mobile - and now they are considering it. For Iwata to change so quickly means there is more pressure and urgency to bring in revenue and appease investors who cannot be happy hearing Nintendo has not hit a single projection or promise yet with 3DS and Wii U.

I find it hilarious that Iwata says they cannot be in this business if they are not winning, yet he's the very person that doesn't even consider his company competing.

And what bothers me further is that IF Nintendo decides to go mobile, it will be because of Iwata. His fans love to claim that they never want to see him gone because then the new CEO will inevitably sellout and put Mario on iOS; I find it's Iwata's constant incompetence, short-shortsightedness, and stubbornness throughout the years that has led up to and is now forcing that very consideration. If the company was not losing hundreds of millions if he and the management were able to do their jobs adequately, we wouldn't even be hearing anything about this.

#13 Edited by ninjapirate2000 (3052 posts) -

Nintendo is doing so bad with the Wii U and how is Sony dealing with the Vita? I mean it's doing way worse than the Wii U in NA, selling less than 95k in december.

How can both companies boost their products? I mean <95k in December is embarrassing, not even the Dreamcast was that bad.

#14 Edited by superbuuman (2898 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@speak_low said:

@super600 said:

A big stock drop means nothing unless the company is near financial ruin which nintendo is not.Nintendo does have to fix the way they are running their business, but they are not doomed.Stocks rise because of good news and drop because of bad news. I expect nintendo's stock to rise or stabilize again in a week or so.

But the article says Iwata is holding a corporate strategy meeting this January 30th, and just a couple days ago he said Nintendo cannot be in this business if they are "not winning" and that they need to restructure their business - and in his words, they are "studying mobile" alternatives.

All of this adds up to serious situation for Nintendo. The article is not saying they will completely vanish tomorrow, but this is more corporate action that they've taken in a long time in response to financial results, and considering the article just said that this is Nintendo's third year in a row with a huge Operating Loss, Iwata is not just apologizing this time (like he always does) but seems to be taking emergency action this time.

You and I may disagree whether things will get better or worse the next year for them, but you cannot deny there is more going on now on the side of Nintendo in response to financial results. Remember that Nintendo a while ago said they that they would never put their games on mobile - and now they are considering it. For Iwata to change so quickly means there is more pressure and urgency to bring in revenue and appease investors who cannot be happy hearing Nintendo has not hit a single projection or promise yet with 3DS and Wii U.

I find it hilarious that Iwata says they cannot be in this business if they are not winning, yet he's the very person that doesn't even consider his company competing.

And what bothers me further is that IF Nintendo decides to go mobile, it will be because of Iwata. His fans love to claim that they never want to see him gone because then the new CEO will inevitably sellout and put Mario on iOS; I find it's Iwata's constant incompetence, short-shortsightedness, and stubbornness throughout the years that has led up to and is now forcing that very consideration. If the company was not losing hundreds of millions if he and the management were able to do their jobs adequately, we wouldn't even be hearing anything about this.

If it continues to be bad by the end of the year, I think, he will be force out..all his plan for Wii U has fail. He's lucky 3DS is doing well. :p

#15 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

I find it hilarious that Iwata says they cannot be in this business if they are not winning, yet he's the very person that doesn't even consider his company competing.

And what bothers me further is that IF Nintendo decides to go mobile, it will be because of Iwata. His fans love to claim that they never want to see him gone because then the new CEO will inevitably sellout and put Mario on iOS; I find it's Iwata's constant incompetence, short-shortsightedness, and stubbornness throughout the years that has led up to and is now forcing that very consideration. If the company was not losing hundreds of millions if he and the management were able to do their jobs adequately, we wouldn't even be hearing anything about this.

That is a good point - a lot of this is because of him and could've been avoided if he woke up from his bubble years ago, or paid closer attention to the industry. Everything about this company feels like they're catching up to what the competition is doing. (so much for Nintendo innovation and being different - they spend more time trying to catch up to what others have!)

What makes it worse is Nintendo was at their "height" not that long ago with Wii, and to end up where they are now (one of the lowest points ever) so quickly - this sudden, hard crash just makes them look very bad and incompetent and unsure of themselves, and it hurts investor and consumer confidence to witness this ugly contrast. It looks like a company that has no control of things and has no idea what their future will be. Iwata has really hurt Nintendo a lot with his decisions that stretch back for years.

And I think Iwata feels he has to act now because he does have a lot of responsibility resting on his shoulders (to investors and Nintendo employees who do not want to see "reduced positions" because of canned projects) and sees things getting worse. It's clear waiting isn't going to stop or reverse the "bleeding" and it's about time he woke up to this fact.

Operating Losses three years in a row means no profit is coming in, and waiting and hoping for "that one game to change everything" is a narrow-minded, risky strategy (and plain stupid for him to say that this late in the game). And despite Sheep saying 3DS is in "beast mode" and helping Nintendo, it actually isn't. I've posted before how the 3DS doing better doesn't exactly mean Nintendo is doing great, or proves they know what they're doing with the Wii U either.

#16 Posted by VanDammFan (4285 posts) -

a life long NIN fan..but would love to see them fail. Time has come for them to move on.Out with the old,in with the new. Would love to see who comes in next.

#17 Posted by megaspiderweb09 (3686 posts) -

Yawn, Business is always gonna business, Nintendo will be fine

#18 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26886 posts) -

@VanDammFan said:

a life long NIN fan..but would love to see them fail. Time has come for them to move on.Out with the old,in with the new. Would love to see who comes in next.

Hi, that's not a contradiction.

#19 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

@ninjapirate2000 said:

Nintendo is doing so bad with the Wii U and how is Sony dealing with the Vita? I mean it's doing way worse than the Wii U in NA, selling less than 95k in december.

How can both companies boost their products? I mean <95k in December is embarrassing, not even the Dreamcast was that bad.

Vita situation is bad for sure. I don't think I've seen any Cow even try to defend the sales of it.

But Sony and MS make more money in other areas outside of gaming, so Sony can drop it if worst comes to worst (and it seems it has). It would still damage Sony but the handheld division is a far more crucial branch for Nintendo than it is to Sony.

Playstation Now (streaming service) might help Vita sales, but that would be thinking like Iwata and similar to what he has done to Nintendo - assuming too much and banking on risks and last-second turnarounds.

#20 Posted by beerm_basic (2487 posts) -

I really hope they change there business model or have some epic idea to garner money as i dont like seeing nintendo in trouble

#21 Edited by MirkoS77 (7599 posts) -

@speak_low said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I find it hilarious that Iwata says they cannot be in this business if they are not winning, yet he's the very person that doesn't even consider his company competing.

And what bothers me further is that IF Nintendo decides to go mobile, it will be because of Iwata. His fans love to claim that they never want to see him gone because then the new CEO will inevitably sellout and put Mario on iOS; I find it's Iwata's constant incompetence, short-shortsightedness, and stubbornness throughout the years that has led up to and is now forcing that very consideration. If the company was not losing hundreds of millions if he and the management were able to do their jobs adequately, we wouldn't even be hearing anything about this.

That is a good point - a lot of this is because of him and could've been avoided if he woke up from his bubble years ago, or paid closer attention to the industry. Everything about this company feels like they're catching up to what the competition is doing. (so much for Nintendo innovation and being different - they spend more time trying to catch up to what others have!)

What makes it worse is Nintendo was at their "height" not that long ago with Wii, and to end up where they are now (one of the lowest points ever) so quickly - this sudden, hard crash just makes them look very bad and incompetent and unsure of themselves, and it hurts investor and consumer confidence to witness this ugly contrast. It looks like a company that has no control of things and has no idea what their future will be. Iwata has really hurt Nintendo a lot with his decisions that stretch back for years.

And I think Iwata feels he has to act now because he does have a lot of responsibility resting on his shoulders (to investors and Nintendo employees who do not want to see "reduced positions" because of canned projects) and sees things getting worse. It's clear waiting isn't going to stop or reverse the "bleeding" and it's about time he woke up to this fact.

Operating Losses three years in a row means no profit is coming in, and waiting and hoping for "that one game to change everything" is a narrow-minded, risky strategy (and plain stupid for him to say that this late in the game). And despite Sheep saying 3DS is in "beast mode" and helping Nintendo, it actually isn't. I've posted before how the 3DS doing better doesn't exactly mean Nintendo is doing great, or proves they know what they're doing with the Wii U either.

Frankly, the more and longer I watch this train-wreck the more I'm coming to absolute confidence that the Wii was a success in spite of Nintendo's handling of it, not due to it. I can't bring myself to believe that any company run like Nintendo currently is sold over a hundred million Wiis due to how they're run now. How is this complete opposite spectrum of performance possible? Is it arrogance that made them lazy? Was motion controls such an incredibly novel idea at just the right time aimed at the right people that it easily overcame the many mistakes happening even back then? I can't equate the disparity of the Wii's massive success with the Wii U's immense failure. It makes no sense to me.

Even with the Wii's success, the problems they are having today, these losses stem directly from issues that Nintendo refused to acknowledge and act on at the time the Wii was flying high and are now coming back to bite them hard in the ass. When they were rolling in cash, they failed to prepare for HD development. They didn't invest in overhauling their online infrastructure, which was badly in need of an update even back then. They still couldn't give a shit about 3rd parties. No account or cross-buy system was established, and the VC offerings move at the speed of molasses.

I'm so frustrated by Nintendo man, I can't even express it because all of this was forseeable miles ahead of time and entirely preventable. They were on top of the world leaving the Wii. They had momentum, they had TONS of cash, and they simply sat on their ass and did literally nothing, or at least the minimal amount necessary. They stopped supporting the Wii TWO YEARS, what were they doing??? I don't know why, but I suspect they got so arrogant as to believe they really didn't need to try and could just float on the Wii name again without much effort.

Maybe that's what pisses me off the most....I think a lot of this has to do with arrogance and hubris. I'm glad to see it punished, I just hope in doing so it won't change the company into something worse than it's already become.

#22 Posted by k--m--k (1016 posts) -

I hope things gets better for them, they need to make Wii U pokemon or something

I like Nintendo

#23 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (2806 posts) -

When the wii was crushing they stopped support the last two years. The needed gamers to create a outcry to bring games from japan. They knew their online needed a massive overhaul. So what do they do ??

Nothing.

Can't say I am surprised. IMO Nintendo got lucky last gen with the wii. They let their brand die for two years when they should have been proactive. Sony on the other has a clear message and seems to be doing everything in their power to gain the advantage. They have their 1st party making all kinds of quality games. They have psn plus that changed the online console market. They have great 3rd party support. They are even going after indie devs. When the hard choice came up on 8gb of ram or a cam they said fuck the cam. They made the 400 price point and have great hardware. They are even going after video apps. Sony could say screw the ps3 but the line up of games for the ps3 is better than ever.

The result is gamers have faith in the brand and bought every ps4 Sony could make. Sony even has a new game streaming service. That was the result of buying gaikai for 380m when the company was selling buildings. People were saying that they should have saved that money. I have no doubt that it will pay off in the future on games and on 4k video streaming.

These are just a couple examples of the choices the leaders of Sony and Nintendo made. The ps3 could have sunk Sony but they did the right thing and it paid off. I have no doubt if the leadership changed at Nintendo they would be much better for it. I like Nintendo games but the choices they have made frankly don't give me alot of faith in their brand. We know what they should do but time after time Nintendo make the wrong choice.

#24 Edited by MirkoS77 (7599 posts) -

@no-scope-AK47: I can't wait for PS Now. I think if executed and priced right it's going to be a great option. I hope I can get in on the beta, supposed to begin within a few months.

#25 Edited by Caseytappy (2147 posts) -

Same like last year .

Iwata keeps apologising for the lack of games and so not pushing sales, he promises changes but nothing happens .

Pls Understand !

#26 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (2806 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@no-scope-AK47: I can't wait for PS Now. I think if executed and priced right it's going to be a great option. I hope I can get in on the beta, supposed to begin within a few months.

Ps Now is going to change the way we play games. It should also make streaming 4k video easy as well making the consoles future proof. After seeing what Sony did with psn plus I think the price and content will be on point. This month so far I got DMC,BSI, don't starve and there are deals on games as well. I have not checked on the vita games yet but I am sure there should be one.

#27 Edited by PrincessGomez92 (3611 posts) -

Nintendo will be fine. Pathetic how you're enjoying this.

#28 Posted by Newhopes (4582 posts) -

@speak_low said:

Thanks to NeoGaf for the thread and news links.

Nintendo is in trouble and this time it can't be ignored.

"Nintendoooomed!" jokes won't save Sheep now, because now it's not a joke, and on January 30 there won't be any laughing from the Nintendo board of directors

Meanwhile Sony lose $5 billion a year and cows say everythings fine.

#29 Edited by KungfuKitten (21131 posts) -

While we're celebrating the demise of console gaming I would like to see MS sales diminish more for the mandatory Kinect and last generations' unreliability both in terms of hardware and software support. Maybe that would teach them something or at least make them go away.

#30 Posted by Suppaman100 (3937 posts) -

OP, do you know how rich Nintendo is?

#31 Edited by hoosier7 (3844 posts) -

@ninjapirate2000 said:

Nintendo is doing so bad with the Wii U and how is Sony dealing with the Vita? I mean it's doing way worse than the Wii U in NA, selling less than 95k in december.

How can both companies boost their products? I mean <95k in December is embarrassing, not even the Dreamcast was that bad.

I read somewhere that Sony make a profit on the Vita so as long as they can cover the R&D it shouldn't be much of a problem. Unless they over produced and there's millions of Vitas sat on store shelves.

#32 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7419 posts) -

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

#33 Edited by super600 (30718 posts) -

@speak_low said:

@super600 said:

A big stock drop means nothing unless the company is near financial ruin which nintendo is not.Nintendo does have to fix the way they are running their business, but they are not doomed.Stocks rise because of good news and drop because of bad news. I expect nintendo's stock to rise or stabilize again in a week or so.

But the article says Iwata is holding a corporate strategy meeting this January 30th, and just a couple days ago he said Nintendo cannot be in this business if they are "not winning" and that they need to restructure their business - and in his words, they are "studying mobile" alternatives.

All of this adds up to serious situation for Nintendo. The article is not saying they will completely vanish tomorrow, but this is more corporate action that they've taken in a long time in response to financial results, and considering the article just said that this is Nintendo's third year in a row with a huge Operating Loss, Iwata is not just apologizing (like he always does) but seems to be taking emergency action this time.

You and I may disagree whether things will get better or worse the next year for them, but you cannot deny there is more going on now on the side of Nintendo in response to financial results. Remember that Nintendo a while ago said they that they would never put their games on mobile - and now they are considering it. For Iwata to change so quickly means there is more pressure and urgency to bring in revenue and appease investors who cannot be happy hearing Nintendo has not hit a single projection or promise yet with 3DS and Wii U.

Nintendo won't be putting any of their games on mobile unless it helps any of their brands. Their may utilize mobile platforms in some ways like they are doing right now with miiverse since you can access miiverse on a mobile phone.Nintendo's stock only dropped 6% on monday anyway.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-19/nintendo-pressed-to-exit-hardware-after-wii-u-flop.html

#34 Posted by Shewgenja (9620 posts) -

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

#35 Posted by VanDammFan (4285 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

@VanDammFan said:

a life long NIN fan..but would love to see them fail. Time has come for them to move on.Out with the old,in with the new. Would love to see who comes in next.

Hi, that's not a contradiction.

tired of the struggling to keep up. tired of their non stop pushing of games 20+ years old. Tired of underpowered console. Tired of their horrible excuse of a controller. Tired of the way they pretend to NOT care. Its not that they dont care,they just dont know HOW to make games OR get 3rd party support. Stuck in the past. time for them to go. Nothing wrong with going just handheld.

#36 Posted by Shinobishyguy (22488 posts) -

Worst part of all of this is that Nintendo's first party output this year was amazing. Being met with losses even on the 3ds of all things must be hard to swallow

#37 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26886 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

Well, considering the "core gamer" hasn't been really caring about what Nintendo has been doing for lord knows how long, it was for the best that they "abandoned them". That and "casual" and "core" pretty much have no meaning now.

@VanDammFan said:

tired of the struggling to keep up. tired of their non stop pushing of games 20+ years old. Tired of underpowered console. Tired of their horrible excuse of a controller. Tired of the way they pretend to NOT care. Its not that they dont care,they just dont know HOW to make games OR get 3rd party support. Stuck in the past. time for them to go. Nothing wrong with going just handheld.

Those are the words of a FORMER fan, not a LIFELONG fan. Lifelong implies that you've been a fan for lord knows how long and still are in the current era. Former fan notes that you once liked them, but you got pissed off enough that you ended up being done with anything new (maybe old) that they are doing. You don't hear Todd in the Shadows on TGWTG say he's still a major Eminem fan after Just Lose It and the rest of the Encore album.

Look, if you can't stand playing Nintendo's stuff anymore. That's fine. I can't stop that. Just don't call yourself a lifelong fan and then beg for the company's death just because they don't appeal to YOU anymore.

And to end, YES there is a problem with going handheld only, as not even that can meet goals as last year proved (don't just blame the bad Wii U sales on this, the 3DS doesn't get a pass either). Nintendo can't survive on one piece of hardware, even if it's the most successful part. They'll lose balance like a table missing a leg.

#38 Posted by Shewgenja (9620 posts) -

Well, you have a point there. Guess they should have hedged some of their bets with the core, though. Their exposure to the tablet and phone market cannot be understated. Never thought I'd see the day when the word 'Gameboy' wasn't synonymous with invincibility. But, there you have it, Nintendos ship is taking on water.

@nintendoboy16 said:

@Shewgenja said:

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

Well, considering the "core gamer" hasn't been really caring about what Nintendo has been doing for lord knows how long, it was for the best that they "abandoned them". That and "casual" and "core" pretty much have no meaning now.

#39 Edited by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

i have to say about this....what you have to say about xbox not making money and investors begging to close it down....i lol.

now go back to 2nd place and stay there..you have no place in nintendo threads bro gamer.

#40 Edited by TwistedShade (3165 posts) -

My take on what needs to be done.

$199 Wii U Price drop, (I don't care if they'll lose more money the current situation just isn't cutting it). Improve Wii U Online service by changing how friends lists work and improving the messaging service, also improve the E-Shop and start buffing up the Virtual Console.

Improve Virtual console on 3DS and release NES, SNES, N64, and GBA games (Seriously this would print money and it doesn't feel like it would be hard to do), also improve account services on 3DS and tie purchases to Nintendo Network account instead of the hardware.

Market the crap out of the Wii U, if they want it to succeed they can't give up and just drop the marketing they need to commit to it, and push advertisements every month.

#41 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7419 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

i have to say about this....what you have to say about xbox not making money and investors begging to close it down....i lol.

now go back to 2nd place and stay there..you have no place in nintendo threads bro gamer.

Ha, your so mad! I love it! Stay that way. I talk all the shit I want on Nintendo.

#42 Posted by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

i have to say about this....what you have to say about xbox not making money and investors begging to close it down....i lol.

now go back to 2nd place and stay there..you have no place in nintendo threads bro gamer.

Ha, your so mad! I love it! Stay that way. I talk all the shit I want on Nintendo.

whatever you embryo....

been there done that.

#43 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (7419 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

i have to say about this....what you have to say about xbox not making money and investors begging to close it down....i lol.

now go back to 2nd place and stay there..you have no place in nintendo threads bro gamer.

Ha, your so mad! I love it! Stay that way. I talk all the shit I want on Nintendo.

whatever you embryo....

been there done that.

maybe you should go back to OT, I don't think SW is your cup 'o tea.

#44 Posted by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha said:

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

@KBFloYd said:

@FoxbatAlpha said:

This is not surprising considering that Nintendo cut its sales forecast by 2/3.

I wonder what the idiot with the Princes Peach avatar has to say about this?

i have to say about this....what you have to say about xbox not making money and investors begging to close it down....i lol.

now go back to 2nd place and stay there..you have no place in nintendo threads bro gamer.

Ha, your so mad! I love it! Stay that way. I talk all the shit I want on Nintendo.

whatever you embryo....

been there done that.

maybe you should go back to OT, I don't think SW is your cup 'o tea.

lol....shetup nerd.

#45 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (27866 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

Nintendo's share was so high BECAUSE they abandoned the core gamer and hit a nerve with the casual market with the Wii and DS. Their problem has not been the core its that they haven't attracted the same casual user base back with the Wii U.

#46 Posted by Shewgenja (9620 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@Shewgenja said:

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

Nintendo's share was so high BECAUSE they abandoned the core gamer and hit a nerve with the casual market with the Wii and DS. Their problem has not been the core its that they haven't attracted the same casual user base back with the Wii U.

Yeah. I mean, that's not lost on me. They did do astoundingly good last console gen and handheld gen. However, without making real inroads back to the core gamer, they left themselves in a position where they are almost completely replaceable by the current generation of fad products. Perhaps having a tablet controller was a "safe bet" to piggy-back the tablet craze back when the WiiU was being designed, but now it's the noose that is hanging them and the handheld market is not showing the kind of growth that would off-set losses in the console space like they are used to.

The times moved against Nintendo. The whole ecosystem changed very rapidly and they were in no position to adapt to it.

#47 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (27866 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@Shewgenja said:

I hope this serves as a lesson for generations to come. When you abandon the core gamer like Nintendo did, prepare for the consequences.

Nintendo's share was so high BECAUSE they abandoned the core gamer and hit a nerve with the casual market with the Wii and DS. Their problem has not been the core its that they haven't attracted the same casual user base back with the Wii U.

Yeah. I mean, that's not lost on me. They did do astoundingly good last console gen and handheld gen. However, without making real inroads back to the core gamer, they left themselves in a position where they are almost completely replaceable by the current generation of fad products. Perhaps having a tablet controller was a "safe bet" to piggy-back the tablet craze back when the WiiU was being designed, but now it's the noose that is hanging them and the handheld market is not showing the kind of growth that would off-set losses in the console space like they are used to.

The times moved against Nintendo. The whole ecosystem changed very rapidly and they were in no position to adapt to it.

I stand by my assumption that Nintendo got "lucky" with Wii Sports. It tapped into the zeitgeist just at the right time. I bought a Wii for it as did almost everyone I know that got one, but not many kept playing it for long afterwards.

#48 Posted by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

Frankly, the more and longer I watch this train-wreck the more I'm coming to absolute confidence that the Wii was a success in spite of Nintendo's handling of it, not due to it. I can't bring myself to believe that any company run like Nintendo currently is sold over a hundred million Wiis due to how they're run now. How is this complete opposite spectrum of performance possible? Is it arrogance that made them lazy? Was motion controls such an incredibly novel idea at just the right time aimed at the right people that it easily overcame the many mistakes happening even back then? I can't equate the disparity of the Wii's massive success with the Wii U's immense failure. It makes no sense to me.

Even with the Wii's success, the problems they are having today, these losses stem directly from issues that Nintendo refused to acknowledge and act on at the time the Wii was flying high and are now coming back to bite them hard in the ass. When they were rolling in cash, they failed to prepare for HD development. They didn't invest in overhauling their online infrastructure, which was badly in need of an update even back then. They still couldn't give a shit about 3rd parties. No account or cross-buy system was established, and the VC offerings move at the speed of molasses.

I'm so frustrated by Nintendo man, I can't even express it because all of this was forseeable miles ahead of time and entirely preventable. They were on top of the world leaving the Wii. They had momentum, they had TONS of cash, and they simply sat on their ass and did literally nothing, or at least the minimal amount necessary. They stopped supporting the Wii TWO YEARS, what were they doing??? I don't know why, but I suspect they got so arrogant as to believe they really didn't need to try and could just float on the Wii name again without much effort.

Maybe that's what pisses me off the most....I think a lot of this has to do with arrogance and hubris. I'm glad to see it punished, I just hope in doing so it won't change the company into something worse than it's already become.

Excellent points all around. Iwata's job was to work closely with his development teams and make sure they were prepared for HD. At least Sony and MS had a better excuse back in 2006 when it was a new thing for consoles. Wii U hardware was designed to be BC and close the the architecture of Wii to make things easier for developers. For Iwata to say they were caught by surprise by the complexities of HD is a poor excuse in 2013 when HD production should've been researched deeply back in 2006 at least. In fact, a common thing with Iwata in these investor press releases is always something about him being caught by surprise and him capping it off with an apology that next time will be better. How many times can you be caught off guard by what are very clear signs in the air, especially for the industry he's supposed to be the expert in?

Nintendo needs to change management soon imo. Every apologetic meeting buys him another 3-4 months, but the circumstances keep getting worse and not better like he promises. Time to get out and let someone actually turn it around

@super600 said:

Nintendo won't be putting any of their games on mobile unless it helps any of their brands. Their may utilize mobile platforms in some ways like they are doing right now with miiverse since you can access miiverse on a mobile phone.Nintendo's stock only dropped 6% on monday anyway.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-19/nintendo-pressed-to-exit-hardware-after-wii-u-flop.html

Maybe you are right but it is odd that Iwata last Friday said these things which (to me) indicate they are at least thinking about putting games on mobile:

“The way people use their time, their lifestyles, who they are have changed. If we stay in one place, we will become outdated.”

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303465004579325760899958956

And then there was this part:

The company’s president, Satoru Iwata, told reporters Friday there would be a “major management shake-up” at the company but that he would not resign, Reuters reports. He also promised the company is “thinking about a new business structure.”

“Given the expansion of smart devices, we are naturally studying how smart devices can be used to grow the game-player business,” Iwata said. “It’s not as simple as enabling Mario to move on a smartphone.

That's quite a lot to say if they were simply putting apps and more Miiverse and ads on mobile. These things sound like more advertising but they hardly sound like "major management shake-up" and new business structures.

@Suppaman100 said:

OP, do you know how rich Nintendo is?

I know how much they are worth and that is exactly what is troubling. You need to look at how much they used to have not long ago. Losing billions in the last few years is not good. And one could overlook it as a bump, but Nintendo has not shown how they are going to stop this financial slide in the next few years (Wii U not turning around, 3DS revenue shrinking every year to mobile).

Sony has lost a lot too and I acknowledge that. But Nintendo defenders always say Nintendo is fine and nothing is wrong, and that they have plenty of reserves through 50 years of failures. I am arguing that this isn't true and they need to act now. I think the Iwata quotes I posted above are a convincing sign that they see the urgency of the situation and are finally doing something about it

#49 Edited by g0ddyX (3914 posts) -

Major News Channels across the globe have been reporting Nintendo's failing share price and profit loss.
You know what they say about bad publicity.

People talked of Doom and Gloom of Sony, Microsoft, PC etc.. But the latest Nintendo report is much more serious.

Those casuals have turned their back on Wii U and gone on iOS and Android it seems.

Better sell those shares fast before they get any lower I say.

#50 Posted by super600 (30718 posts) -

@speak_low said:

@MirkoS77 said:

Frankly, the more and longer I watch this train-wreck the more I'm coming to absolute confidence that the Wii was a success in spite of Nintendo's handling of it, not due to it. I can't bring myself to believe that any company run like Nintendo currently is sold over a hundred million Wiis due to how they're run now. How is this complete opposite spectrum of performance possible? Is it arrogance that made them lazy? Was motion controls such an incredibly novel idea at just the right time aimed at the right people that it easily overcame the many mistakes happening even back then? I can't equate the disparity of the Wii's massive success with the Wii U's immense failure. It makes no sense to me.

Even with the Wii's success, the problems they are having today, these losses stem directly from issues that Nintendo refused to acknowledge and act on at the time the Wii was flying high and are now coming back to bite them hard in the ass. When they were rolling in cash, they failed to prepare for HD development. They didn't invest in overhauling their online infrastructure, which was badly in need of an update even back then. They still couldn't give a shit about 3rd parties. No account or cross-buy system was established, and the VC offerings move at the speed of molasses.

I'm so frustrated by Nintendo man, I can't even express it because all of this was forseeable miles ahead of time and entirely preventable. They were on top of the world leaving the Wii. They had momentum, they had TONS of cash, and they simply sat on their ass and did literally nothing, or at least the minimal amount necessary. They stopped supporting the Wii TWO YEARS, what were they doing??? I don't know why, but I suspect they got so arrogant as to believe they really didn't need to try and could just float on the Wii name again without much effort.

Maybe that's what pisses me off the most....I think a lot of this has to do with arrogance and hubris. I'm glad to see it punished, I just hope in doing so it won't change the company into something worse than it's already become.

Excellent points all around. Iwata's job was to work closely with his development teams and make sure they were prepared for HD. At least Sony and MS had a better excuse back in 2006 when it was a new thing for consoles. Wii U hardware was designed to be BC and close the the architecture of Wii to make things easier for developers. For Iwata to say they were caught by surprise by the complexities of HD is a poor excuse in 2013 when HD production should've been researched deeply back in 2006 at least. In fact, a common thing with Iwata in these investor press releases is always something about him being caught by surprise and him capping it off with an apology that next time will be better. How many times can you be caught off guard by what are very clear signs in the air, especially for the industry he's supposed to be the expert in?

Nintendo needs to change management soon imo. Every apologetic meeting buys him another 3-4 months, but the circumstances keep getting worse and not better like he promises. Time to get out and let someone actually turn it around

@super600 said:

Nintendo won't be putting any of their games on mobile unless it helps any of their brands. Their may utilize mobile platforms in some ways like they are doing right now with miiverse since you can access miiverse on a mobile phone.Nintendo's stock only dropped 6% on monday anyway.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-19/nintendo-pressed-to-exit-hardware-after-wii-u-flop.html

Maybe you are right but it is odd that Iwata last Friday said these things which (to me) indicate they are at least thinking about putting games on mobile:

“The way people use their time, their lifestyles, who they are have changed. If we stay in one place, we will become outdated.”

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303465004579325760899958956

And then there was this part:

The company’s president, Satoru Iwata, told reporters Friday there would be a “major management shake-up” at the company but that he would not resign, Reuters reports. He also promised the company is “thinking about a new business structure.”

“Given the expansion of smart devices, we are naturally studying how smart devices can be used to grow the game-player business,” Iwata said. “It’s not as simple as enabling Mario to move on a smartphone.

That's quite a lot to say if they were simply putting apps and more Miiverse and ads on mobile. These things sound like more advertising but they hardly sound like "major management shake-up" and new business structures.

@Suppaman100 said:

OP, do you know how rich Nintendo is?

I know how much they are worth and that is exactly what is troubling. You need to look at how much they used to have not long ago. Losing billions in the last few years is not good. And one could overlook it as a bump, but Nintendo has not shown how they are going to stop this financial slide in the next few years (Wii U not turning around, 3DS revenue shrinking every year to mobile).

Sony has lost a lot too and I acknowledge that. But Nintendo defenders always say Nintendo is fine and nothing is wrong, and that they have plenty of reserves through 50 years of failures. I am arguing that this isn't true and they need to act now. I think the Iwata quotes I posted above are a convincing sign that they see the urgency of the situation and are finally doing something about it

They ae going to use mobile platforms to increase the brand power of some of their franchises. They won't be developing games on mobile unless the games fit these platforms.