Nintendo only relies on Gimmicks. Hang on now.

#1 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (24875 posts) -

Now I know better than to go off on Facebook and start Console Wars on IGN or Gamespot topics there, but one thing I saw made me think for a bit.

Does Nintendo really rely on Gimmicks rather than Games?

I don't know about you, but I've seen the OPPOSITE happen around Nintendo.

With all of the Directs and News surrounding Nintendo they really haven't been too focused on Ideas they thought were a great in the first place. The Gamepad is no where near utilized enough from Nintendo, the 3D Effect on the 3DS is no longer mentioned by them, and the Motion Controls, the most they did for them was Wii Sports. Has Nintendo ever relied on these gimmicks?

Look at the past Directs they made, most people were surprised to see Nintendo had been focusing a lot on the competitive side of Smash Bros rather than the casual side and They showed off a new game that looked quirky and fun (tomodachi life). Not to mention they have been putting a lot of show casings for Project X and went way beyond their limits with Shin Megami Tensei IV and Fire Emblem last year and have dedicated themselves to make a year long campaign for Mario Kart 8.

What does this say? That They're relying on Gimmicks?

What has Sony been doing? They've been touting this Morpheus Project that was obviously done to compete with Oculus. Not to mention the sacrifices some game companies have been giving to both Xbone and PS4 to get better resolutions and Microsoft still forcing everyone to use Kinect on Xbox one (not that Nintendo is much better, but, still.)

To me it seems some people don't seem to realize that Nintendo even though they have one of the biggest blunders in all of gaming, their tatics are still very much for the gamer and I think that should be noted

#2 Edited by charizard1605 (55982 posts) -

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

#3 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16672 posts) -

Their systems are pretty gimmicky, but they usually deliver top notch games. Like Charizard said, they rely on the gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but thankfully their systems (at least handhelds) are filled with great games. 3DS in particular, is a perfect example. It had a weak start, and the 3D is admittedly gimmicky, but it has a pretty great library so far and it only looks like it'll improve.

#4 Posted by locopatho (20177 posts) -

Their gimmicks seem more like excuses at times. Motion controls, tablet controls, 3D visuals acting as cheap, under used ideas to distract away from the fact their hardware lags a generation or more behind the competition.

I think you are right, in that they don't put much into supporting these things. I think their games are better for it. I think that Wii games were nearly always improved by letting me use a Classic Controller. I think that releasing 2DS was a nice idea to keep that 3D gimmick away from my eyes. I think that the WiiU tablet controller needs to be optional for any sort of fast paced action/adventure/platformer/shooter game.

#5 Posted by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -

I don't think they rely on gimmicks. My main complaint has been that they have been underpowered and relied too much on old franchises whilst not enticing the third party. I will say I thought the gamecube pad was pretty awful because they gimmicked it out, I hated the wii motion controls a lot and the gamepad is totally and utterly needless, but it's not the main reason I dislike them.

On the gamecube pad, apart from the slightly cheap plasticky feel it really needed an even spread of buttons. It was fine for some games, in fact pretty good for the likes of Resi 4. But when faced with something like a fighting game or a sports game you had one massive trigger buttons and a bunch of menu buttons and it was probably the worst conventional controller I used past the 8 bit era. So sometimes it worked, often it didn't. Motion controls? Awful. Waggle plagued early releases, later ones which used the motion plus left me just wishing I could play with a normal pad. Haven't seen the game pad used to any great effect yet, I am sure control wise it doesn't get too much in the way. But I will say this, and I keep having to repeat it. You can only look at one screen at once. I'd much rather a pause screen for inventory than looking away from the main screen. It's common sense.

#6 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

I don't think they rely on gimmicks because I don't think they are gimmicks.... Motion Controls are the best thing thats happened to this industry... I'l take that over Stupid 1080p any day ! Plus... All that co-op :D ! ! !

Gimmick my foot, it was a freaking revolution... Gamers just decided not to notice.

#7 Posted by jsmoke03 (12743 posts) -

motion gaming is a gimmick no matter what form

even dual screen gaming is under utilized that i consider it a gimmick.

vr headset is a gimmick

#8 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@ jsmoke03

You're a Gimmick ! :p

#9 Edited by locopatho (20177 posts) -

I don't think they rely on gimmicks because I don't think they are gimmicks.... Motion Controls are the best thing thats happened to this industry... I'l take that over Stupid 1080p any day ! Plus... All that co-op :D ! ! !

Gimmick my foot, it was a freaking revolution... Gamers just decided not to notice.

The Wii sold over 100 million consoles. We noticed. We tried it. It was new and fun. Then we realised motion controls hurt the vast majority of games and genres. We moved away from it. Kinect sucks, and Move failed. Gamers don't want that garbage.

Btw there were far more co op games on the traditional Xbox and PS consoles...

#10 Posted by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Yes, all the customers fault they didn't "get" why waggling a controller is "more fun" than the conventional way.

#11 Edited by PimpHand_Gamer (272 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

In general I agree with this. It's also their lack of first party library on both U and 3DS that is hurting them now. Although I really liked the Wii and motion controllers. It helped make "casual" games more fun than they normally would be and I enjoyed how the wiimote could be inserted into a cheap gun housing without paying for actual hardware. Cheap, great gaming fun is all the Wii is.

Shame they didn't continue that with WiiU, I think the tablet thing hurt them more than it helped. I also like the 3D screen on the 3DSxl, it's not perfect but it does add something that otherwise wouldn't exist if they forced the use of glasses or no 3D at all.

#12 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@ DocSanchez

Gamers are Insecure and lazy.... Thats their "gimmick".

#13 Posted by magicalclick (22438 posts) -

But, I did have a lot of fun with the motion controlled Zelda. I think it is very imaginative. It is high quality gimmic fun. I don't own a Nintendo system, but, their game is always fun to play.

#14 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (7189 posts) -

They all rely on gimmicks - Xbox Live, Playstation Plus, Cameras, Mics, touchpads, touchscreens, etc. Gimmick isn't a dirty word.

#15 Posted by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -
#16 Posted by PrincessGomez92 (3467 posts) -

I can count on them to be innovative and have high quality games.

#17 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@ DocSanchez

The community can suck it. :p

I like the show though... Jeff Winger knows how to rally !

#18 Posted by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: I've no idea what you're talking about with the second part of your post. In the first, the community is, literally, the reason gaming exists. If they reject something, there's usually a good reason for it. In this case, because it didn't actually enhance gaming at all, it made it less fun.

#19 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@ DocSanchez

I don't disagree that the community has reasons for what they do. I just disagree that they are good reasons. Mind you the community lets shit like Day One DLC slide but have issues with getting their @sses off the couch to play some kinect adventures, doesn't matter if the kinect can't play Dark Souls.... They should try it anyway.

I was talking about the Community tv show with Joel Mchale. Now thats a reall community ! Not these spineless suckers that love getting screwed over.

#20 Posted by charizard1605 (55982 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

In general I agree with this. It's also their lack of first party library on both U and 3DS that is hurting them now. Although I really liked the Wii and motion controllers. It helped make "casual" games more fun than they normally would be and I enjoyed how the wiimote could be inserted into a cheap gun housing without paying for actual hardware. Cheap, great gaming fun is all the Wii is.

Shame they didn't continue that with WiiU, I think the tablet thing hurt them more than it helped. I also like the 3D screen on the 3DSxl, it's not perfect but it does add something that otherwise wouldn't exist if they forced the use of glasses or no 3D at all.

Dude, what? The 3DS probably has Nintendo's best first party showing since... wow, at least the Gamecube.

#21 Edited by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: What are you actually saying here? The gaming community has it's reasons but they aren't good? What are they? If a person doesn't like motion controls, that is the only reason that person needs to not buy into them. That is in itself a very good reason. By saying the community has spoken I am saying this is the prevailing attitude. People didn't like motion controls. It wasn't for them. That is a perfectly good reason.

#22 Posted by Heil68 (43436 posts) -

For the last 2 gens it's been all about the gimmick for their consoles. Doesn't matter if they use the gamepad a lot or not, it's there and you cant buy a system without it.

#23 Edited by LegatoSkyheart (24875 posts) -

I should go back on Nintendo's use of the gamepad because I just remembered most Nintendo titles allow you to play games without a TV which was and is the main use of the WiiU gamepad.

So in a way, Nintendo is using the Gamepad better than how they have been going with 3D on the 3DS but all the other features the gamepad has, has been under utilized.

#24 Posted by superbuuman (2679 posts) -

I should go back on Nintendo's use of the gamepad because I just remembered most Nintendo titles allow you to play games without a TV which was and is the main use of the WiiU gamepad.

So in a way, Nintendo is using the Gamepad better than how they have been going with 3D on the 3DS but all the other features the gamepad has, has been under utilized.

That feature is useless to me...I have TV to myself...& console to me means to be played on big screen..not small screen...I already have a 3DS if I want portability or look at small screen.

#25 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (24875 posts) -

@superbuuman: main point was that you didn't need to hook up to a TV to play games like Tekken Tag 2, Ninja Gaiden 3, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Call of Duty, and your Nintendo favorites like Mario and Zelda.

#26 Posted by inb4uall (5343 posts) -

M$ is relying far more on gimmicks with kinect and TV then the Wii U or PS4.

#27 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1350 posts) -

what gimmicks have they done?

#28 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@ DocSanchez

After all the whining about not enough innovation.... I disagree.

#29 Posted by BattleSpectre (5963 posts) -

*Hangs on now*

#30 Edited by Desmonic (13394 posts) -

Comme on brah! Look at all dem gimmicks in Mar.....Metro..........Zel.................................Smash Br......................................................Wii Sports? Yeah, f*cking Wii Sports brah!

Gimmicks!

#31 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (4028 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bit of a harsh way of saying it imo. I'll always credit Nintendo for looking for new ways for gamers to interact with games. And I think they're being genuine about that,

That doesn't mean I don't criticise them. I think they don't play around with ai and physics nearly enough and I think they cut corners on hardware for stupid reasons. Disc size on GC (for piracy), GPU on Wii (unbelievably low end, no need for that), CPU on the Wii U (apparently to keep the small form factor).

#32 Edited by DJ-Lafleur (34142 posts) -

They all rely on gimmicks - Xbox Live, Playstation Plus, Cameras, Mics, touchpads, touchscreens, etc. Gimmick isn't a dirty word.

Sums of my thoughts. I think it is silly how some think of gimmicks as an inherintly terrible thing. Gimmicks have been around since the dawn of gaming.

#33 Posted by Heirren (16512 posts) -

Nintendo relies on quality. Period.

#34 Posted by MirkoS77 (7142 posts) -

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wii Sports was the software that had Wiis flying off the shelves, and I wouldn't say it was due to strong software. The vast majority of that system's sales were because of the game's utilization of a gimmick. Had Wii Sports not existed, I highly doubt the Wii would've done nearly as well. Probably as well as the U, actually...

#35 Posted by charizard1605 (55982 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wii Sports was the software that had Wiis flying off the shelves, and I wouldn't say it was due to strong software. The vast majority of that system's sales were because of the game's utilization of a gimmick. Had Wii Sports not existed, I highly doubt the Wii would've done nearly as well. Probably as well as the U, actually...

This is reinforcing my point: Wii Sports was software that sold the Wii, not the motion controls, but the software that utilized it effectively. Now whether Wii Sports appeals to your sensibilities or not, the fact of the matter is, it was exceptionally good at what it did, and clearly it was the best in its class for the audience that it was aiming at.

#36 Edited by TigerSuperman (1976 posts) -

Now I know better than to go off on Facebook and start Console Wars on IGN or Gamespot topics there, but one thing I saw made me think for a bit.

Does Nintendo really rely on Gimmicks rather than Games?

I don't know about you, but I've seen the OPPOSITE happen around Nintendo.

With all of the Directs and News surrounding Nintendo they really haven't been too focused on Ideas they thought were a great in the first place. The Gamepad is no where near utilized enough from Nintendo, the 3D Effect on the 3DS is no longer mentioned by them, and the Motion Controls, the most they did for them was Wii Sports. Has Nintendo ever relied on these gimmicks?

Look at the past Directs they made, most people were surprised to see Nintendo had been focusing a lot on the competitive side of Smash Bros rather than the casual side and They showed off a new game that looked quirky and fun (tomodachi life). Not to mention they have been putting a lot of show casings for Project X and went way beyond their limits with Shin Megami Tensei IV and Fire Emblem last year and have dedicated themselves to make a year long campaign for Mario Kart 8.

What does this say? That They're relying on Gimmicks?

What has Sony been doing? They've been touting this Morpheus Project that was obviously done to compete with Oculus. Not to mention the sacrifices some game companies have been giving to both Xbone and PS4 to get better resolutions and Microsoft still forcing everyone to use Kinect on Xbox one (not that Nintendo is much better, but, still.)

To me it seems some people don't seem to realize that Nintendo even though they have one of the biggest blunders in all of gaming, their tatics are still very much for the gamer and I think that should be noted

Giving up on failed gimmicks is not the same as them not relying on it. Because that is still the primary method of control.

Sig

___

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161288635428

#37 Edited by DocSanchez (1562 posts) -

@YearoftheSnake5: You are confused by the term gimmick. A gimmick is something which adds little and isn't designed for long term consumption. A short term hook. Online systems were a natural evolution for gaming to go in to. Not a gimmick. Motion controllers were a gimmick because they were just designed to provide a hook without actually improving anything. They were shallow innovation, instead of investing in power which they couldn't keep up with Nintendo instead invested in silly control schemes which made money with none gamers but lost a lot of faith with a lot of fans.

I see some of the other things you mentioned as potentially gimmicks but given the level of reliance the companies have on them it's not the same. And when companies like Microsoft push a gimmick, like kinect, they get the same backlash.

#38 Edited by Sword-Demon (6963 posts) -

Their recent systems rely on gimmicks, their games utilize those gimmicks, but don't rely upon them.

#39 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (7189 posts) -

@DocSanchez:

Dance around it all you like with your selective interpretation. They're gimmicks. End of story.

#40 Posted by lbjkurono23 (12544 posts) -

Now if only the could put that laser focus on making games for the wiiu.

#41 Edited by jg4xchamp (47306 posts) -

Yes, they obviously do.

They couldn't compete in a traditional sense, so they started side stepping the competition by building their console around an interface gimmick. First time by they hit pay dirt, the second time by it's blown up in their face. That doesn't mean Nintendo suddenly started sucking at making videogames. They have too much talent under one roof to not make good games, but it did allow them to be typical Nintendo and play it safe and be uninspired with their games(sans exceptions like Mario Galaxy which was an actually progressive game from Nintendo).

I will say they are atrocious as far as showcasing their product when it really comes down to it. Because both the Wii and WiiU pad were about their interface, and with the exception of Wii SPorts, I don't think either system can say the best showcase of that system's interface is a Nintendo Ip. I'd also say that about the DS. That's not to say they haven't been able to find a market for their systems. But motion controls and the dual screen itself, the best uses for that stuff wasn't done by Nintendo.

#42 Posted by MirkoS77 (7142 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wii Sports was the software that had Wiis flying off the shelves, and I wouldn't say it was due to strong software. The vast majority of that system's sales were because of the game's utilization of a gimmick. Had Wii Sports not existed, I highly doubt the Wii would've done nearly as well. Probably as well as the U, actually...

This is reinforcing my point: Wii Sports was software that sold the Wii, not the motion controls, but the software that utilized it effectively. Now whether Wii Sports appeals to your sensibilities or not, the fact of the matter is, it was exceptionally good at what it did, and clearly it was the best in its class for the audience that it was aiming at.

Sorry, but motion controls sold the Wii. If you take that away, in itself Wii Sports wouldn't hold nearly the same appeal and the Wii would not have sold nearly what it did. The system's success was contingent upon a gimmick. As for me, no, Wii Sports is not what I'd consider "strong software", I'd consider it a bunch of half-assed mini-games.

If Nintendo's systems always sell ultimately on the strength of the software, then how do you explain the disparity between the U and the Wii?

#43 Edited by charizard1605 (55982 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@charizard1605 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

@charizard1605 said:

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wii Sports was the software that had Wiis flying off the shelves, and I wouldn't say it was due to strong software. The vast majority of that system's sales were because of the game's utilization of a gimmick. Had Wii Sports not existed, I highly doubt the Wii would've done nearly as well. Probably as well as the U, actually...

This is reinforcing my point: Wii Sports was software that sold the Wii, not the motion controls, but the software that utilized it effectively. Now whether Wii Sports appeals to your sensibilities or not, the fact of the matter is, it was exceptionally good at what it did, and clearly it was the best in its class for the audience that it was aiming at.

Sorry, but motion controls sold the Wii. If you take that away, in itself Wii Sports wouldn't hold nearly the same appeal and the Wii would not have sold nearly what it did. The system's success was contingent upon a gimmick. As for me, no, Wii Sports is not what I'd consider "strong software", I'd consider it a bunch of half-assed mini-games.

If Nintendo's systems always sell ultimately on the strength of the software, then how do you explain the disparity between the U and the Wii?

The Wii U, whatever it sells, sells on the basis of the games it has- it's certainly not selling because the hardware is appealing, or because of its online or digital infrastructure. Its sales come entirely from the appeal of Nintendo's first party titles.

Wii sold because of motion controls... but imagine if it had had motion but no game to showcase them. Wii Sports was the perfect title that instantly showed off the allure of motion controls. Everyone played it, everyone wanted in. To the extent of spending $250 for one. Without Wii Sports (or any other title to showcase the Wii's motion), the Wii would not have sold (like the Wii U is not selling much in the absence of there being any title to show off its gimmick). Which brings me back to my original assertion that while the gimmick may be there for the initial wow factor, ultimately it's Nintendo's software that moves their hardware.

#44 Edited by LegatoSkyheart (24875 posts) -

@TigerSuperman said:

Giving up on failed gimmicks is not the same as them not relying on it. Because that is still the primary method of control.

Sig

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161288635428

Not anymore.

A Lot of WiiU games do not rely on the Gamepad alone. Most actually offer at least 2 methods of playing (Gamepad with Pro U or Wiimote+Pro.)

#45 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (3844 posts) -

i dont mind ninty taking a different approach to the other 2 as long as they offer the OPTION to play all their games with a traditional controller. as long as they do that i am fine. and honestly no one in the industry has more prestige then ninty, they have innovated more than anyone in the industry put together

#teamninty

#46 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6533 posts) -

They do rely on gimmicks

Look at Skyward Sword, or those levels in SMG involving ridingba bird or a giant ball, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Twilight Princess, Bowsers Inside Story, Dream Team, etc etc. Sometimes they work out like the giant Luigi battles which took advantage of two screens, touch controls, and gyroscope controls to make very unique boss battles. Sometimes it doesnt work out so well like with Skyward Sword, SMG bird races, and some annoying mini games in Bowsers Inside Story

#47 Edited by superbuuman (2679 posts) -

@princessgomez92 said:

I can count on them to be innovative and have high quality games.

Yea that's what they *SHOULD* concentrate on doing instead of screwing around with controls. :P

#48 Posted by lbjkurono23 (12544 posts) -

@princessgomez92 said:

I can count on them to be innovative and have high quality games.

Yea that's what they *SHOULD* be doing instead of screwing around with controls. :P

True. I'm still waiting for those innovative, and high quality games. Until then, I guess I'll keep playing a game from ten years ago.

#49 Posted by sonic_spark (4599 posts) -

Nintendo relies on gimmicks for the initial wow factor, but their systems always, always, always sell on the strength of their software library. Nothing more, nothing less.

This really says it all.