nintendo doing the right thing?

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deadmeat59

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#1 deadmeat59
Member since 2003 • 8981 Posts
do you think nintendo is doing the right thing? buy gaming weaker hardware so companys will focus on game play. i feel that games are going down the wrong path all company seems to care about is how good the game looks. let at game look gears looks amazing but very short its online maps are tiny and ovly can have 8 players.
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air0123

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#2 air0123
Member since 2006 • 1411 Posts
Your looking at right and wrong from a personal stand point. Nintendo is doing the right thing as far as business is concerned, because they make money on every console. So yes, they are doing the right thing.
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REVOLUTIONfreak

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#3 REVOLUTIONfreak
Member since 2005 • 18418 Posts
For them, what they are doing is perfect.  At this point they realize that they need to dare to be different, and so far it is working well for them.
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wavebrid

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#4 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts

do you think nintendo is doing the right thing? buy gaming weaker hardware so companys will focus on game play. i feel that games are going down the wrong path all company seems to care about is how good the game looks. let at game look gears looks amazing but very short its online maps are tiny and ovly can have 8 players.deadmeat59

yea thats why ps2 sold the most :|

please troll get something new.

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michaelareb0001

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#5 michaelareb0001
Member since 2005 • 1366 Posts
No. The Wii does not mean developers will make games with better gameplay. It means they will get to reuse last gen games and engines for another 5 years. It means they will try to incorperate motion contols into everything even if they don't add anything to the game, simply because thats the point of the system. It means Nintendo is able to make huge amounts of money on hardware that is little more than a slightly improved version of something that sells for 70 USD at most stores. It means people will still pay close to the price of a 360 core, and get a fraction of the hardware, and it will set an example for future generations of marketing.

I like Nintendo franchises, that's why I own a Wii, not for the motion sensing, not for any other reason. There might be 1 or 2 decent 3rd party games i will buy for it, but my Wii library is going to be almost all first party. If Nintendo went 3rd party and released the wii mote for the ps3 and 360, I would buy the same amount of their games as if it was on a console of their own, maybe more.

They've done a brilliant job of marketing. But untill I play something truly amazing on that system that can't be had anywhere else, and can't be just as enjoyable as with motion sensing, I will continue to see it as nothing more than that.

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wavebrid

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#6 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts

No. The Wii does not mean developers will make games with better gameplay. It means they will get to reuse last gen games and engines for another 5 years. It means they will try to incorperate motion contols into everything even if they don't add anything to the game, simply because thats the point of the system. It means Nintendo is able to make huge amounts of money on hardware that is little more than a slightly improved version of something that sells for 70 USD at most stores. It means people will still pay close to the price of a 360 core, and get a fraction of the hardware, and it will set an example for future generations of marketing.

I like Nintendo franchises, that's why I own a Wii, not for the motion sensing, not for any other reason. There might be 1 or 2 decent 3rd party games i will buy for it, but my Wii library is going to be almost all first party. If Nintendo went 3rd party and released the wii mote for the ps3 and 360, I would buy the same amount of their games as if it was on a console of their own, maybe more.

They've done a brilliant job of marketing. But untill I play something truly amazing on that system that can't be had anywhere else, and can't be just as enjoyable as with motion sensing, I will continue to see it as nothing more than that.

michaelareb0001

your worst than tc

just beacuse ps3 and 360 have power and graphcis dosent mean they make it better for gamepaly either

wii uses some old tech  plus new tech dont be a noob

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Renegade_Fury

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#8 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21701 Posts
I think they're doing the right thing for their own pockets, but I think they're doing the wrong thing for long time and hardcore gamers. I want awesome graphics and gameplay, I shouldn't have to choose between the two. Also the lack of online support is another downer again this gen.
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lzorro

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#9 lzorro
Member since 2006 • 7395 Posts
If it's anything like the DS I'll be happy :)
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poopinloop32

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#10 poopinloop32
Member since 2006 • 4949 Posts
the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this year
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michaelareb0001

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#11 michaelareb0001
Member since 2005 • 1366 Posts
Wavebrid I assure you, I know plenty about all three consoles. The Wii may be 3x more powerful than the origional xbox in processing power, but it lacks the ability to do most of the effects the xbox handled with ease.

I am aware the PS3 and 360 don't mean better gameplay because of the tech inside, I never said that, but it is a pretty well know fact, that around here, people for some reason equate Wii to good gameplay. Outside of Zelda, I have not seen a single game with good gameplay that couldn't be done on A) a PS3 or 360 (and better for that matter) or B) done on the gamecube

EDIT: I would have made an exception for Elebits except it was way too short and repetative.
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Hir0_N

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#12 Hir0_N
Member since 2007 • 2644 Posts
Thats why the Wii is selling like hotcakes.
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laughingman42

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#13 laughingman42
Member since 2007 • 8730 Posts
the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearpoopinloop32
For once I agree with you. I'm so freaking confused as to why they wont give the devs online kits or whatever. it kinda seems like bad business sence when everything else they are doing in terms of business is correct.
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Kekira

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#14 Kekira
Member since 2007 • 2128 Posts
I think for now it's doing the right thing but I'm not sure how long it will last. Afterall, by going for a casual audience, right now they are selling very well. But the question is wether casuals will buy multiple games or just one and be happy with it. I don't completely agree with your reasons for why it could be bad, but you do bring up a good point.
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wavebrid

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#15 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts

Wavebrid I assure you, I know plenty about all three consoles. The Wii may be 3x more powerful than the origional xbox in processing power, but it lacks the ability to do most of the effects the xbox handled with ease.

I am aware the PS3 and 360 don't mean better gameplay because of the tech inside, I never said that, but it is a pretty well know fact, that around here, people for some reason equate Wii to good gameplay. Outside of Zelda, I have not seen a single game with good gameplay that couldn't be done on A) a PS3 or 360 (and better for that matter) or B) done on the gamecube

EDIT: I would have made an exception for Elebits except it was way too short and repetative.
michaelareb0001

1. thats developers not the hardware problem.

2. your assuming thats the problem here.  red steel is good with the wiiremote but it did have some problems. though red steel is a good game .  dont call it fact when its your Opioion

elbits is a third party game not nintendo fault.

madden plays better on wii accodring to reviews (dont worry i dont go bye them ) i go by my standards.

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wavebrid

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#16 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts

the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearpoopinloop32

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

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UssjTrunks

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#17 UssjTrunks
Member since 2005 • 11299 Posts
Yes because it's selling.
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poopinloop32

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#18 poopinloop32
Member since 2006 • 4949 Posts

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearwavebrid

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

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zidane345

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#19 zidane345
Member since 2004 • 695 Posts
games are becoming more and more like one another, what nintendo is doing is saying dont worry about a whole bunch of new hardware to figure out, just worry about a new way to play, that is one reason why i am not excited about PS3, why would i want to play the fifth installment of a game with the same story just because if has new graphics?
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wavebrid

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#20 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts
[QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearpoopinloop32

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

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poopinloop32

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#21 poopinloop32
Member since 2006 • 4949 Posts
[QUOTE="poopinloop32"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearwavebrid

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

link?
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Acemaster27

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#22 Acemaster27
Member since 2004 • 4482 Posts
Let me put it this way, i was a gamecube fan, and i desperately wanted reason to follow nintendo but the half-greatness of the gamecube just tried to drive me away. I considered becoming a sony fan, or an M$ fan so that i could get better games that i could enjoy for longer (i can only really afford one system so im not just being fanboyish in only going after 1 system). But i still wanted to follow nintendo. I wanted a reason to get their next gen console. Then nintendo gave me that reason, it was their revolution. They valued fun (and price) over graphics and they made something that wasn't truly NEW-gen. Now i love Zelda and Wii sports and my faith in nintendo has been restored, thanks to nintendo doing the "right thing."
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StarFoxCOM

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#23 StarFoxCOM
Member since 2006 • 5605 Posts
This is a poll of if you like wii or don't i like wii i voted yes
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wavebrid

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#24 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts
[QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="poopinloop32"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearpoopinloop32

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

link?

ok while you send me a link to where that came from i look for you link

http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2007/02/third_parties_f.php

not the best source still proves it

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laughingman42

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#25 laughingman42
Member since 2007 • 8730 Posts
[QUOTE="poopinloop32"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearwavebrid

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

nintendo hasnt released the online dev kits to 3th party yet. and probably wont until later this year. third party games probably wont have online until 08. hes not lieing
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michaelareb0001

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#26 michaelareb0001
Member since 2005 • 1366 Posts

[QUOTE="michaelareb0001"]Wavebrid I assure you, I know plenty about all three consoles. The Wii may be 3x more powerful than the origional xbox in processing power, but it lacks the ability to do most of the effects the xbox handled with ease.

I am aware the PS3 and 360 don't mean better gameplay because of the tech inside, I never said that, but it is a pretty well know fact, that around here, people for some reason equate Wii to good gameplay. Outside of Zelda, I have not seen a single game with good gameplay that couldn't be done on A) a PS3 or 360 (and better for that matter) or B) done on the gamecube

EDIT: I would have made an exception for Elebits except it was way too short and repetative.
wavebrid

1. thats developers not the hardware problem.

2. your assuming thats the problem here. red steel is good with the wiiremote but it did have some problems. though red steel is a good game . dont call it fact when its your Opioion

elbits is a third party game not nintendo fault.

madden plays better on wii accodring to reviews (dont worry i dont go bye them ) i go by my standards.



Don't be so sure it's completely the developers fault, the Wii mote is not all that precise. In fact details on exactly how much and what the wii mote can detect are vague at best. Even it was accurate enough to detect the differences between similar movements, it would require the user to be very precise in how they move. I love playing guitar, but training yourself to move quickly, precisely and accurately is frustrating. It's going to be a problem, either because of the remotes limitations or because of the users.

The only fact I stated was people around here equate Wii to good gameplay, even if most of the Wii games suck. That is always the defense for the system. Gameplay is more important than graphics. Which I agree, but as I state above, the only good gameplay I have experienced is Zelda, a gamecube game.

Red Steel is not a good game, it is a medicore game with a twist. It's AI, story and the majority of the levels are horrible and the controls lack the precision needed for a good FPS. In sword fighting, all you do is trigger pre defined animations. I literly twirled my wiimote around by the strap and unleased 4 different attacks. It may be the best FPS on the Wii, but it's competetion is even worse.

Madden does not play better on the Wii, the motion controls are clever and add to the game, but throwing can be done with a flick of a wrist, and you don't have the level of precision the PS3 and 360 version of Madden has.

With all the talk of how the Wii mote makes games more immersive, I have not really felt immersed in any game, because they are either clumsy, ugly or just plain bad.


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wavebrid

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#27 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts
[QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="michaelareb0001"]Wavebrid I assure you, I know plenty about all three consoles. The Wii may be 3x more powerful than the origional xbox in processing power, but it lacks the ability to do most of the effects the xbox handled with ease.

I am aware the PS3 and 360 don't mean better gameplay because of the tech inside, I never said that, but it is a pretty well know fact, that around here, people for some reason equate Wii to good gameplay. Outside of Zelda, I have not seen a single game with good gameplay that couldn't be done on A) a PS3 or 360 (and better for that matter) or B) done on the gamecube

EDIT: I would have made an exception for Elebits except it was way too short and repetative.
michaelareb0001

1. thats developers not the hardware problem.

2. your assuming thats the problem here. red steel is good with the wiiremote but it did have some problems. though red steel is a good game . dont call it fact when its your Opioion

elbits is a third party game not nintendo fault.

madden plays better on wii accodring to reviews (dont worry i dont go bye them ) i go by my standards.



Don't be so sure it's completely the developers fault, the Wii mote is not all that precise. In fact details on exactly how much and what the wii mote can detect are vague at best. Even it was accurate enough to detect the differences between similar movements, it would require the user to be very precise in how they move. I love playing guitar, but training yourself to move quickly, precisely and accurately is frustrating. It's going to be a problem, either because of the remotes limitations or because of the users.

The only fact I stated was people around here equate Wii to good gameplay, even if most of the Wii games suck. That is always the defense for the system. Gameplay is more important than graphics. Which I agree, but as I state above, the only good gameplay I have experienced is Zelda, a gamecube game.

Red Steel is not a good game, it is a medicore game with a twist. It's AI, story and the majority of the levels are horrible and the controls lack the precision needed for a good FPS. In sword fighting, all you do is trigger pre defined animations. I literly twirled my wiimote around by the strap and unleased 4 different attacks. It may be the best FPS on the Wii, but it's competetion is even worse.

Madden does not play better on the Wii, the motion controls are clever and add to the game, but throwing can be done with a flick of a wrist, and you don't have the level of precision the PS3 and 360 version of Madden has.

With all the talk of how the Wii mote makes games more immersive, I have not really felt immersed in any game, because they are either clumsy, ugly or just plain bad.


dont even say that. beacsue  there nothing proving wiiremote holding back crap

can you prove me wrong. it suppose to be a flick of wirst...

so that makes it better than wii verison :roll:

or you just plain suck at them :|

red steel is a good game. dont try to put words in my  mouth i enjoy it :| i know its a good game just beaucse you dont dosent mean its bad or medicorn...

and what good games are out for ps3 ..... please tell me i like to know :|

zelda is still zelda you can play on wii and gc so what

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wavebrid

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#28 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts
[QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="poopinloop32"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearlaughingman42

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

nintendo hasnt released the online dev kits to 3th party yet. and probably wont until later this year. third party games probably wont have online until 08. hes not lieing

http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2007/02/third_parties_f.php

go shutup and read it Yes they have

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laughingman42

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#29 laughingman42
Member since 2007 • 8730 Posts
[QUOTE="laughingman42"][QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="poopinloop32"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="poopinloop32"]the worst thing Nintendo did in this gen so far was that no online third party games this yearwavebrid

last time i check its stil 2007

stop making crap up

this was linked and disscussed a week ago..just because its agianst nintendo doesnt mean its not true

just beacuse a link says it dosent mean its true

explain to me why there online kits for wii for thrid paty support please... you been avoding this question ANSWER IT

nintendo hasnt released the online dev kits to 3th party yet. and probably wont until later this year. third party games probably wont have online until 08. hes not lieing

http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2007/02/third_parties_f.php

go shutup and read it Yes they have

another link (which I cant find but was on here a few days ago) said otherwise. It said it was third hand how reliable can it be.
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wavebrid

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#30 wavebrid
Member since 2006 • 8204 Posts

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157084

there another one

atleast i can find links.... you guys cant

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joeyg1097

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#31 joeyg1097
Member since 2002 • 93 Posts
Red Steel is not a good game, it is a medicore game with a twist. It's AI, story and the majority of the levels are horrible and the controls lack the precision needed for a good FPS. In sword fighting, all you do is trigger pre defined animations. I literly twirled my wiimote around by the strap and unleased 4 different attacks. It may be the best FPS on the Wii, but it's competetion is even worse
michaelareb0001
I agree that it wasn't an objectively good game in such categories as AI and level design. It's story, however, I felt was decent, mainly because it was highly philosophical containing reflections on feudal Japanese concepts of honor and ends-justifying-means approaches. I highly disagree on your comment that the Wiimote lacks precision and controls for FPS games. I don't know why anyone subjects themselves to the depravities of dual analog controls. If you want imprecise and clunky, you pick dual analog. The Wiimote point-and-shoot approach has been the closest thing to mouse-and-keyboard (M&K) accuracy on a console to date. What it lacks for the speed of turning with M&K, it makes up for it with a greater ability to move independently of your aim, thus, instead of naturally circle strafing enemies while aiming at them, you can strafe sideways or move backwards, etc, while still maintaining fire on an enemy. This is a useful advantage for shooting enemies while moving for cover. There is also something satisfying about running STRAIGHT down a hallway, headshotting people on different sides of the corridor, instead of having to move diagonally to aim while moving. Your comment lends me to believe you've spent little to no time playing Red Steel. When your ability to aim is only limited by how fast and accurate your hand is as opposed to a pre-defined turn speed, you potentially have faster, better aim (assuming the player isn't the limiting factor). Granted, its implementation of aiming wasn't perfect, two of its greatest faults being a slight but noticeable cursor lag and difficulty turning and firing at the same time due to a huge bounding box. This is not to say that someone with tons of practice with dual analog can't aim precisely but, damn, I feel sorry for people who have to put up with that crap. Limited aim speed, tough to quickly aim at different points in a room, generally inaccurate due to the small size of analog sticks (thus it's harder to get all of the speed gradations possible with analog as opposed to a full-size joystick - ever had that problem of having your cursor go past that far off enemy then, when you try to go back that little bit, you overshoot and, once again, go past the target?), dual analog was the only practical solution for its age, but it's time to move on.
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joeyg1097

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#32 joeyg1097
Member since 2002 • 93 Posts
Back to the topic, I think Nintendo is doing a great thing for gaming. Instead of developers having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and years on games, good games can be made in 1-2 years with a relatively modest budget. Instead of pouring tons of development into high res textures, complex shaders, high polygon counts, and optimizing the use of 3-7 (as)symmetric processing cores, you can scrap a lot of that and potentially focus on other issues, such as level design, storyline, music, art (instead of purely photo-realistic), character development, variety of character customizations (since the textures and models are easier and faster to make), and gameplay features. One reason why so many sequels come out is because developers are spending millions of dollars and don't want to take risks on games that might flop. Not only can they take more risks when they don't need a huge budget, thus potentially making DIFFERENT games as opposed to rehashes, smaller developers (often the ones with crazy and innovative ideas) can implement their games. Of course, this is not to say that there isn't a place for photo-realism and highly detailed environments that create such a believable ambiance and "Wow" factor but I think that this trend of ALL games being this way is actually damaging to the industry. Some examples of this "less graphics, more others" direction are: GTA series (simple graphics but open ended gameplay, interesting missions, and lots of things you can do) the Total War series (relatively simple graphics but epic battles and addictive strategic elements) Spore (textures are simple but the creature customization seems intense) Diablo 2 (relatively crappy graphics for the year 2000 but addictive gameplay) StarCraft (Korea) World of WarCraft (8 million - simple (some argue terrible) graphics but highly addictive, repetitive but somehow engaging quests, great dungeons, intricate PvP depending on class combos) Civilization series (simple graphics but deep politics and strategy) The Sims 1 & 2 (playing fake people - simple idea with simple graphics) Brainage (development team of ~10 people, 4-6 months) Wii Sports (simple look with some deep games - obviously most of us are looking forward to more detailed sports games) Trauma Center (Game that wouldn't work well with dual analog - simple presentation but addictive gameplay) Okami (art vs. photo-realism, different game mechanic in paint brush) Neverwinter Nights (crappy looking textures for 2002, tile-based levels giving all the areas a uniform look but a lot of moddability, its expansions had great stories, great RPG, allowed for Dungeon Masters in multiplayer - Neverwinter Nights 2 tried to be technically superior to 1 which, I feel, hindered it, making load times terrible and frame-rates bad even in seemingly non-graphically demanding scenes) Freedom Force (simple textures and models, comic book style, hilarious characters, great story) 2D fighting games, eg. Street Fighter series, Guilty Gear (non-3D but still immensely popular) Viva Pinata Lego Star Wars Sam & Max The Monkey Island series Warioware: Smooth Moves There are a lot of great games that aren't technically amazing but deliver an experience that a lot of those graphically superior games just can't do, possibly because too much time and money was spent making them look pretty. Nintendo is potentially making developers rethink what makes a game great and having them spend more time on those aspects rather than on just the graphics. I say potentially only because it depends on the developers... Wii can use less Ubi-porting.
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vauba_haoly

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#33 vauba_haoly
Member since 2005 • 402 Posts
Yes. The top selling console right now is the PS2. Next gen consoles are getting all the buzz but they are out of touch with mainstream consumers. The hardcore gamers will spend $400 or $600 on a new console and maybe even a grand or two for the HDTV to get the most out of the graphics. The mainstream consumers are buying the $130 system with the $20 games. Wii could retail for $100 right now and it would be selling for about as much of a loss as the PS3. In 5 years or so when HDTV's are starting to become commonplace, then Nintenodo will release their HD capable system. They have made a system that is tailored to what the mainstream is ready for now, not what it will be ready for in the future. They are having much more success than anyone thought they would. Developers will figure out how to make better use with the controller in the future like they always figure out how to use the hardware better.