New Xbox One Update Boosts Console GPU Power

#202 Posted by misterpmedia (3631 posts) -

@FastRobby said:

So you are saying/thinking that a developer can just decide: "Kinect off"

Dude, you're not getting it lol.

#204 Posted by misterpmedia (3631 posts) -

@FastRobby said:

@misterpmedia said:

@FastRobby said:

So you are saying/thinking that a developer can just decide: "Kinect off"

Dude, you're not getting it lol.

Apparently not :D

Whether kinect is plugged in or not, within the SDK a part of the GPU is corned off for if kinect wants to be used or not. They are now releasing that restriction to devs. So, kinect was 100% the problem.

#206 Posted by vickissv2 (1776 posts) -

I just want to state that any person who even asks the question: " does that mean those who have the kinect plugged in will have a weaker console?" needs to be slapped for stupidity.

#207 Posted by SolidTy (44424 posts) -

@littlestreakier said:

@SolidTy: you make some great points and I can definitely see where your coming from. I initially had the PS4 and XB1 pre-ordered and ended up having to cancel them due to life. But I was able to pick up a PS4 from Best Buy the first day they were doing tickets (before Christmas). I've actually really enjoyed the PS4 a lot, haven't really touched my X360 since I got it. I'm happy I held off on getting the XB1 so far.

I've also been looking to get a Wii U. I keep hearing conflicted things about it though, hoping to get your input. Most of my friends have have moved to different states within the US, so when it comes to playing with friends it's usually online. Is the Wii U a good online console? I hear if I was still in college and lived in a dorm hands down it's be the better console but in terms of online it's not.

The Wii U is NOT a good online console. If you buy the WiI U, it's for exclusives much like the N64, Gamecube, and Wii. Don't buy it expecting a PS360 multiplat/online experience, it's not the machine for multiplatform games or heavy online gaming. The reason it gets the most play out of the three new machines is that it's a year older and therefore has more exclusives I'm willing to play...currently. I think that's going to change as the generation goes on and more multiplatform and exclusives release like Batman, The Order, Halo, God of War, Destiny, GeoW, etc. These new machines are a little over six months old and the Wii U is approaching year 2 soon. If buying a Wii U, know what you are in for. :)

The other thing to consider is if you'd even be willing to play the Wii U games I deem worth playing for me. Games like Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, etc. If those games aren't up your alley, they won't sway you as much as they did me. I bought the Wii U at launch 2012 as well just because I love their exclusives and I knew what I was in for having suffered droughts on N64, GC, and Wii. I don't like their hardware design choices or their online initiatives, but I will fumble through that to enjoy their 1st party games as I've been a fan since the NES. If that doesn't describe you, maybe it's best you play it safe and wait for a price drop before getting a Wii U. When it first released it too was suffering from a lack of software like the current Xbone/PS4 is...luckily I still have my last gen machines through all of this.

#208 Posted by blackace (21073 posts) -

Not saying anything. Just waiting for the E3 Conferences to begin.

Michael Jackson Eating Popcorn GIF

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Denzel-Washington-Boom-Gif.gif

#209 Edited by SolidTy (44424 posts) -

darkangel115 said:

@SolidTy said:

@littlestreakier said:

darkangel115 said:

@littlestreakier said:

@gago-gago: good, I'd like a reason to sit a XB1 next to my PS4, but as it stands now there's no reason for me to do that.

IDK i have both and I'm glad I do.

I'm not denying that there are people that are really enjoying their XB1/PS4 and I think that's great. But for me specifically I just don't have a reason to own one yet. I've owned playstation and xbox every generation so far, so I expect this gen to be no different. I'm hoping e3 will be great this year for Sony, MS, and Nintendo.

I have both and I don't agree with that other hardcore fanboy slanted user (revealed in previous threads) at all with regards to owning both. He's all about selling Xbones every other sentence. I hardly use my PS4/Xbone, but I use my PS4 far more often than the Xbone. I bought at launch. PS4 gets multiplats due to performance (what I did with 360 last gen) and few exclusives. Xbone is used for few exclusives. Neither are in that OMG buy me! mode to me, but I always pick up the new toys at launch.

Other facts:

PS+ has given 9 games to PS4 since launch. It's just this month of JUNE that M$ finally are getting around to offering Games with Gold for Xbone, so maybe things will improve. Sony's been banging out PS+ games since launch. I'm not glad I own both, but it is what it is. My Wii U gets more play than either, but only slightly, but the most play in the house honestly is the PC and PS3. The 360 sort of tapered off on exclusives and I just finished some Wii games in my backlog. Moving along steady.

calling me a "hardcore fanboy slanted user" Thats just classic. keep fighting the good fight there SDF

If users call out your BS, they are SDF? lol. I recommended a Wii U over Xbone/PS4 in the post you quoted, lol. I also explained the PS4/Xbone aren't getting much play at all. Pro-Xbot slanted users like you can't discern the difference. If they don't agree, they must be one group, lol. BTW: SDF was a parody site created by Wii60 fans last gen, lol. That means I'm a Wii and 360 super fan! I don't mind that considering my massive Wii and 360 collection since launch of both of those machines (2005 I bought two 360s, in 2006 I bought a Wii). I am a fan of games though so that's okay. I'll grant you that your post today was mild, but it was still in defense as usual of your Xbone, but it's your other many posts that are suspect. There is nothing inherently wrong with the Xbone (nor PS4), other than their libraries both kind of suck right now, but that's always expected during that launch year.

I'd put my Wii U, Wii, PC, 360, DS, 3DS, GBA, Xbox 1, Dreamcast, or Xbone library up against yours. I'd use my Steam achievements or Xbox Gamerscore against yours as well. We'll see who's the biggest PC or Xbox fan between us. The PC isn't even fair, because I have Blizzard Achievements and Origin and GOG games that aren't counted. No need to even use a playstation to best the likes of you. Your posts gave you away since day one. If you aren't a PR employee, you act like one every second or third post.

#210 Edited by I_can_haz (6551 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@FastRobby said:

@Suppaman100 said:

Yeah it is, Xbone can have as much updates as it wants, you can't change sh*t hardware. Lol if you gave 500 bucks for that POS.

Special software for special hardware, not like shelf parts PS4. Nothing unique about it, lol, just a bad low-end PC

Lol, keep damage controlling, PS4 is stronger than Xbone 720p.

I think you're in the denial step.

So much win, I never get tired of this picture.

Describes the desperate lemmings' damage control on this forum perfectly.

#211 Posted by sneslover (940 posts) -
@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:

Even then, you're looking at a Radeon R7 260 (not the X version, regular 260 has exactly the same number of shaders)underclocked at 853mhz (versus the PC's 1000mhz +), and then devs have to effectively use the ESRAM to get around bandwidth limitations.

From http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/768-shader-pitcairn-review,3196.html

Prototype 7850 has 12 CU/768 stream processors at 860Mhz with 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

X1's GPU solution would range between 7770 to prototype 7850-768. GDDR5 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth has better performance stability/narrower performance variance than 32 MB ESRAM + 68 GB/s DDR3 setup.X1's GPU solution would require more programming investments when compared to the prototype 7850.

PS4 basically has R7-265 level GPU which beats 7790, R7-260, R7-260X, prototype 7850 and reference 7850.

-------------

Well, I don't know if the prototype 7850 had 32 ROPs as well, but that is in the final version and not in the XBone GPU, so it and the R7 260 are just 7790 derivatives (1 CU disabled), with 16 ROPS and different clocks. 32 ROPs is one of the things that differenciates the PS4 as a stronger resolution pusher.

I do agree the 7770 and and 7850 are pretty much equivalents, provided they have higher clocks to compensate the fewer shader count. 7770 is already 1000mhz base, so even a slight OC will probably push it above XBone. The 7850 would probably need at least 2GB and an overclock to 900mhz+ to match the PS4. Of course, this is all without counting CPU-bound games.

#212 Posted by Daious (1630 posts) -

@Cheleman said:

oh my gut, now we can have games at 792p!!! PERMANENTLY!!!

is this a dream? is this real life? i think i'm going to cry, i'm so happy right now ;_;

The resolution bottleneck is because of the ram not GPU. Resolution will likely not change.

#213 Edited by WitIsWisdom (3809 posts) -

MS doing everything they can to drum up hype for E3.... lol

Always with the secret sauce.... well, 2 or 3 have come and gone.... and it's always 2 years away... this is nothing new.

No matter what they do they will never bridge the gap. This is funny. What, so they are going to do away with the Kinect all together? What about the people who buy one AFTER they get an X1.... Or the early adopters? They are trashing the Kinect so if they use the extra power it DOESNT use then what happens if you DO use it? Your Xbox expodes? They keep pushing things all they are going to do is cause another RROD overheating debacle while still having less power... lol

They just need to stop and worry about the games.

#214 Posted by Draign (829 posts) -

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

#215 Posted by LadyBlue (3929 posts) -

@WitIsWisdom said:

MS doing everything they can to drum up hype for E3.... lol

Always with the secret sauce.... well, 2 or 3 have come and gone.... and it's always 2 years away... this is nothing new.

No matter what they do they will never bridge the gap. This is funny. What, so they are going to do away with the Kinect all together? What about the people who buy one AFTER they get an X1.... Or the early adopters? They are trashing the Kinect so if they use the extra power it DOESNT use then what happens if you DO use it? Your Xbox expodes? They keep pushing things all they are going to do is cause another RROD overheating debacle while still having less power... lol

They just need to stop and worry about the games.

QFT! the gap will never decrease. It's sad that for a group that supposedly doesn't care about graphics they still focus so much on hidden gpus, and secret sauces.

Learn to live with it Lems.

#216 Posted by LadyBlue (3929 posts) -

@draign said:

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

Tell me how that worked out for the 360. lol

#217 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

@delta3074 said:
@HalcyonScarlet said:
@StrongBlackVine said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@StrongBlackVine said:

Funny lemming say graphics don't matter, but every time Microsoft throws some BS out there implying that the Xboner will receive and update to close the gap on PS4 they shit their pants with excitement. Fact is PS4 is going to improve too. Sony has Corrine Yu and the rest of the ICE team at Naughty Dog working hard to improve the PS4's performance as well. The gap will ALWAYS be there.

Lol the cows are all about the graphics too until the herms mention graphics, then they're all about the games.

Also you're wrong, re-read the thread, the cows jumped on this before the lems. What, can't lems be excited when they get performance updates? Just because there's a gap with the PS4, it doesn't mean the X1 isn't allowed to be better than it is.

The only people who used the phrase "closing the gap" was Gamespot.

PS4 and Xflop will be the same price soon. Xflop being outclassed by it's main competitor at the same(and previously cheaper) price is extreme ownage that will never end.

Of course it will. As soon as it's good enough PR, MS will continue to drive the X1 price down further to salvage the gen, traditionally Sony wont so much, especially since it's selling well. Eventually the X1 will be cheaper. They can't do that now because they can't appear to be so drastic in comparison to the launch price of the console.

What SONY fanboys clearly cannot get into there thick skull is that MS are in a FAR better financial position to support there console than SONY, Heck, Microsoft can afford to Give the xbone away if they choose too, MS are in a position to aggressively undercut the competition at every turn, SONY cannot afford to do that.

Bottom line, MS can afford for the Xbone to fail, SONY CANNOT afford for the PS4 to fail.

What Xbox fanboys don't understand is Xbox division does not have access to Microsoft's vast wealth. If they did then they would have lowered the price to $399 WITH Kinect. Fact is Microsoft is ready for Xbox to actually start making some real money.

#218 Posted by Draign (829 posts) -

@ladyblue said:

@draign said:

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

Tell me how that worked out for the 360. lol

Tell me how MS didnt learn from the experience.

#219 Posted by LadyBlue (3929 posts) -

@draign said:

@ladyblue said:

@draign said:

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

Tell me how that worked out for the 360. lol

Tell me how MS didnt learn from the experience.

Never said they didn't learn. However your claim that having an external brick somehow means no overheating is debunked. :)

#220 Posted by xboxiphoneps3 (2384 posts) -

@Couth_:

Alu's and SPU'S are the same thing im pretty sure

SPU= shader processing unit 768 sp's in xbox one not spu's in ps3

#221 Posted by blackace (21073 posts) -

@draign said:

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

Forget the power brick. That huge ass fan that's about 1/3 the size of the system will take care of any heat problems. There's a reason it's there. Not because the XB1 is a weak system. Greatness is coming...

#222 Posted by Couth_ (10205 posts) -

@xboxiphoneps3 said:

@Couth_:

Alu's and SPU'S are the same thing im pretty sure

SPU= shader processing unit 768 sp's in xbox one not spu's in ps3

That makes more sense... The ps3 used synergistic processing units but yeah that's why i was getting at.. It's just a name

#223 Edited by Liquid_ (2847 posts) -
@chikenfriedrice said:

I was about to post this

And the doubters doubted

Cows are shaking in their hooves.

Pretty sure Sony could do the same thing, if not, better.

#224 Posted by Spitfire-Six (544 posts) -

@tormentos: Yes I don't think Microsoft put this out there first it was a question someone asked and they answered. I completely agree the Xbox 1 is not more powerful however post june xbox 1 is more powerful than pre june. The power gain is relative to the xbox one only.

#225 Posted by Spitfire-Six (544 posts) -

@blackace: because its running an over clocked GPU? lol

#226 Posted by delta3074 (18498 posts) -
@I_can_haz said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@FastRobby said:

@Suppaman100 said:

Yeah it is, Xbone can have as much updates as it wants, you can't change sh*t hardware. Lol if you gave 500 bucks for that POS.

Special software for special hardware, not like shelf parts PS4. Nothing unique about it, lol, just a bad low-end PC

Lol, keep damage controlling, PS4 is stronger than Xbone 720p.

I think you're in the denial step.

So much win, I never get tired of this picture.

Describes the desperate lemmings' damage control on this forum perfectly.

I think Cows would have been guilty of most of them last gen, especially number 6, funny how things go,lems are the new cows and Cows are the new lems.

#227 Posted by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

Now it's GPU is 10% closer to be 67% of the PS4's GPU, it's maximum potential.

#228 Posted by littlestreakier (2932 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

@littlestreakier said:

@SolidTy: you make some great points and I can definitely see where your coming from. I initially had the PS4 and XB1 pre-ordered and ended up having to cancel them due to life. But I was able to pick up a PS4 from Best Buy the first day they were doing tickets (before Christmas). I've actually really enjoyed the PS4 a lot, haven't really touched my X360 since I got it. I'm happy I held off on getting the XB1 so far.

I've also been looking to get a Wii U. I keep hearing conflicted things about it though, hoping to get your input. Most of my friends have have moved to different states within the US, so when it comes to playing with friends it's usually online. Is the Wii U a good online console? I hear if I was still in college and lived in a dorm hands down it's be the better console but in terms of online it's not.

The Wii U is NOT a good online console. If you buy the WiI U, it's for exclusives much like the N64, Gamecube, and Wii. Don't buy it expecting a PS360 multiplat/online experience, it's not the machine for multiplatform games or heavy online gaming. The reason it gets the most play out of the three new machines is that it's a year older and therefore has more exclusives I'm willing to play...currently. I think that's going to change as the generation goes on and more multiplatform and exclusives release like Batman, The Order, Halo, God of War, Destiny, GeoW, etc. These new machines are a little over six months old and the Wii U is approaching year 2 soon. If buying a Wii U, know what you are in for. :)

The other thing to consider is if you'd even be willing to play the Wii U games I deem worth playing for me. Games like Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, etc. If those games aren't up your alley, they won't sway you as much as they did me. I bought the Wii U at launch 2012 as well just because I love their exclusives and I knew what I was in for having suffered droughts on N64, GC, and Wii. I don't like their hardware design choices or their online initiatives, but I will fumble through that to enjoy their 1st party games as I've been a fan since the NES. If that doesn't describe you, maybe it's best you play it safe and wait for a price drop before getting a Wii U. When it first released it too was suffering from a lack of software like the current Xbone/PS4 is...luckily I still have my last gen machines through all of this.

Thank you for the response, I'm actually a little disappointed to hear that to be honest. The main two games I want a Wii U for are Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. I've been wanting to play some Nintendo exclusives in general lately though and they do have a lot of great looking single player games. Might wait for a price drop first...thanks Ty really appreciate the input.

#229 Edited by SolidTy (44424 posts) -

@littlestreakier said:

@SolidTy said:

@littlestreakier said:

@SolidTy: you make some great points and I can definitely see where your coming from. I initially had the PS4 and XB1 pre-ordered and ended up having to cancel them due to life. But I was able to pick up a PS4 from Best Buy the first day they were doing tickets (before Christmas). I've actually really enjoyed the PS4 a lot, haven't really touched my X360 since I got it. I'm happy I held off on getting the XB1 so far.

I've also been looking to get a Wii U. I keep hearing conflicted things about it though, hoping to get your input. Most of my friends have have moved to different states within the US, so when it comes to playing with friends it's usually online. Is the Wii U a good online console? I hear if I was still in college and lived in a dorm hands down it's be the better console but in terms of online it's not.

The Wii U is NOT a good online console. If you buy the WiI U, it's for exclusives much like the N64, Gamecube, and Wii. Don't buy it expecting a PS360 multiplat/online experience, it's not the machine for multiplatform games or heavy online gaming. The reason it gets the most play out of the three new machines is that it's a year older and therefore has more exclusives I'm willing to play...currently. I think that's going to change as the generation goes on and more multiplatform and exclusives release like Batman, The Order, Halo, God of War, Destiny, GeoW, etc. These new machines are a little over six months old and the Wii U is approaching year 2 soon. If buying a Wii U, know what you are in for. :)

The other thing to consider is if you'd even be willing to play the Wii U games I deem worth playing for me. Games like Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, etc. If those games aren't up your alley, they won't sway you as much as they did me. I bought the Wii U at launch 2012 as well just because I love their exclusives and I knew what I was in for having suffered droughts on N64, GC, and Wii. I don't like their hardware design choices or their online initiatives, but I will fumble through that to enjoy their 1st party games as I've been a fan since the NES. If that doesn't describe you, maybe it's best you play it safe and wait for a price drop before getting a Wii U. When it first released it too was suffering from a lack of software like the current Xbone/PS4 is...luckily I still have my last gen machines through all of this.

Thank you for the response, I'm actually a little disappointed to hear that to be honest. The main two games I want a Wii U for are Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. I've been wanting to play some Nintendo exclusives in general lately though and they do have a lot of great looking single player games. Might wait for a price drop first...thanks Ty really appreciate the input.

It's a good machine, but know what you are in for.

I'm glad my post was helpful and I think if you want Mario Kart and SSB, you'll definitely have a blast when that time comes and the price is right. :)

#230 Posted by silversix_ (14975 posts) -

So we have the cloud coming. We have DX12 coming. We have Halo 5 coming. We have driver optimization incoming. We have this kinectless Xbone coming that is supposed to increase Xbone performance. One question----Why MS open their mouth so much?


#231 Edited by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

@silversix_ said:

So we have the cloud coming. We have DX12 coming. We have Halo 5 coming. We have driver optimization incoming. We have this kinectless Xbone coming that is supposed to increase Xbone performance. One question----Why MS open their mouth so much?

Hype to try and sell some bones to fools before E3 hits and they still look massively inferior. They know in the end all that will amount to nothing,but maybe actually running at 30fps instead of 22fps at 792p/900p.

#232 Posted by tormentos (18846 posts) -

@ttboy said:

And which game shows 40 - 50% more power? This statement is not holding up to the evidence. The only thing that we're seeing is that third party devs have a harder time maintaining the same resolution as the PS4. That could be due to a number of things that Devs have already stated.

Tomb Raider up to 100% more frames per second higher quality effects full 1080p cut scenes(900p on the one),Ghost more than 100% pixel difference,MGS5 more than 100% pixel difference,BF4 like 46% more pixel + 30% more frames.

40 to 50% more power doesn't mean 40 to 50% better looking games,in fact no even on PC this is true,the 7770 runs the games as the 7950 would one just run them with all visuals faster.

No matter what the xbox one is close to a 7770 the PS4 over the 7850,if you target a game at 1080p 30FPS for PS4 the xbox one will suffer because depending on the load the xbox one need more resources to reach parity,so they can achieve 1080p but at 17 or 19 FPS with drops into the 14 in some cases,so they chose to drop resolution to gain frame parity,not all cases are like this because all is depending on the load the game has period.

@darkangel115 said:

I feel the same as you. You know alot of these "experts" that pop up lately really make me laugh. Even cows dropped the 50% power thing except this guy apparently.

Take a 5400RPM hard drive like that in the PS4 upgrade to a 7200RPM. Now Cow logic would state that since 7200 is about 35% more then 5400 that it would make the PS4 35% more powerful. But that's not how computers and consoles work. and what you really get is maybe 5% increase in performance of load times only at best.

If some one actually get that from changing your HDD from 5400rpm to a 7200rpm they would get 35% more power it most be a complete casual or moron,because any one even with basic knowledge about PC GPU and graphics know that power doesn't come from HDD but from your GPU and CPU,what you should spec is an decrease in loading,and less pop ups or streaming issues.

@b4x said:

My Modified Ford F-150 V8 has 475 foot lbs. at the rear wheels. Of raw power.

I still can't beat a 4 cylinder sports car in a race. Does that mean I have less horse power? No.

Due to setup choices in the vehicles. Weight, Power train, gearing, gas distribution. I lose every time.

Optimization is a huge factor in any device. Raw power does not = Win.

It's how you use that power.

Stupid analogy,now try to pull a 50 foot boat up a hill with that 4 cylinder car,and do yet your F150 V8 will have little problem..

This is not the analogy correct here,the correct one would be you have a 4 cylinder Hyundai Accent (XBO) vs 4 Cylinder Elantra GT (PS4).

Both consoles use GPU from the same family they are just different models one with more power than the other.,the PS4 can also be optimize by the way so yeah your argument is totally null.

@blackace said:

Already doing 1080p. By Apr-May next year, everything announced will be 1080P 30/60. Greatness begins at the E3. Phil Spencer is going to show gamers what a genius maestro can do at the E3 conference.

The witcher 3 is a 2015 game and is rumor to be 720p and in Fact CD project didn't deny it,they damage control it..hahaha Saying resolution was just PR..hahahaha

@Chutebox said:

No dude. They are related. He's saying that you have to actually develop with the extra involved by not needing kinect. It's not magically going to get better with devs using it.

He has by far the worse reading comprehension my native language is not English and i even got fast what he was stating,just by killing the reservation it will not make game ALREADY make run better,very simple i don't even know how he could have miss read it..

#233 Posted by tormentos (18846 posts) -

@blackace said:

@draign said:

@effec_tor said:

Xbox1 owners should start worrying about heat.

Power brick has that covered.

Forget the power brick. That huge ass fan that's about 1/3 the size of the system will take care of any heat problems. There's a reason it's there. Not because the XB1 is a weak system. Greatness is coming...

Hidden GPU FTW...lol

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes I don't think Microsoft put this out there first it was a question someone asked and they answered. I completely agree the Xbox 1 is not more powerful however post june xbox 1 is more powerful than pre june. The power gain is relative to the xbox one only.

Well you can see it that way,you could only access 1.18TF and now you can access 1.28TF the difference is to small for anything significant,by definition the PS4 has almost 600Gflops advantage on it even with the 10% unlock.

#234 Posted by Spitfire-Six (544 posts) -

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

#235 Edited by tormentos (18846 posts) -

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Analogy xbox one jumps from 1180Gflops to 1280 Gflops 10% consider huge real difference 100Gflops.

1840Gflops PS4 - 1280Gflops XBO = 560 Gflops... Consider small.

Want to know what you can expect from that 10%.? 2 or 3 frames more or 100 lines of resolution more depending on the game.

#236 Edited by Spitfire-Six (544 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Analogy xbox one jumps from 1180Gflops to 1280 Gflops 10% consider huge real difference 100Gflops.

1840Gflops PS4 - 1280Gflops XBO = 560 Gflops... Consider small.

Want to know what you can expect from that 10%.? 2 or 3 frames more or 100 lines of resolution more depending on the game.

I think your confusing my post. Ignore the ps4 for a minute I know thats hard for you to do. As I said and put in quotes "relative to its prior state" a 10% increase in the graphic processing unit bandwidth is a huge increase. Now how that 10% is quantified is dependent upon the developer. If the game is GPU bound the increase in Bandwidth will defiantly make a difference if it is CPU bound it will not make as much as a difference. However every increase in power or efficiency does not mean +fps or +resolution those are only 2 aspects of the final image. In short without getting to long winded 10% is better than 0.

The reason people say that the difference between the PS4 and XBOX1 is small because despite those big numbers and percentages the results are not to far off. Most of it comes down to development. Looking at just the percentages tossed around they are used to make the PS4 sound way more powerful which is not the case it is indeed more powerful but the numbers change depending on which aspect you want to talk about that day. At the end of the day its about image quality, and if both systems are putting out images that are not that far apart.

#238 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1771 posts) -

It will use less power for Kinect and more for the graphics processing...am I right? So how much more power can they get? I'm guessing 10% tops.

#239 Posted by WallofTruth (1774 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Well PS4 is still the world's most powerful video game console to have ever been created in the history of video games.

Which doesn't really mean much at all.

#240 Edited by ronvalencia (15164 posts) -
@sneslover said:
@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:

Even then, you're looking at a Radeon R7 260 (not the X version, regular 260 has exactly the same number of shaders)underclocked at 853mhz (versus the PC's 1000mhz +), and then devs have to effectively use the ESRAM to get around bandwidth limitations.

From http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/768-shader-pitcairn-review,3196.html

Prototype 7850 has 12 CU/768 stream processors at 860Mhz with 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

X1's GPU solution would range between 7770 to prototype 7850-768. GDDR5 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth has better performance stability/narrower performance variance than 32 MB ESRAM + 68 GB/s DDR3 setup.X1's GPU solution would require more programming investments when compared to the prototype 7850.

PS4 basically has R7-265 level GPU which beats 7790, R7-260, R7-260X, prototype 7850 and reference 7850.

-------------

Well, I don't know if the prototype 7850 had 32 ROPs as well, but that is in the final version and not in the XBone GPU, so it and the R7 260 are just 7790 derivatives (1 CU disabled), with 16 ROPS and different clocks. 32 ROPs is one of the things that differenciates the PS4 as a stronger resolution pusher.

I do agree the 7770 and and 7850 are pretty much equivalents, provided they have higher clocks to compensate the fewer shader count. 7770 is already 1000mhz base, so even a slight OC will probably push it above XBone. The 7850 would probably need at least 2GB and an overclock to 900mhz+ to match the PS4. Of course, this is all without counting CPU-bound games.

X1's 16 ROPS at 853 Mhz is effectively 17 ROPS at 800Mhz. ROPS count are less important when it can be memory bandwidth limited for high colour bit depths and we are not factoring other co-processors within the same ROP unit.

Prototype 7850's 32 ROPS would be limited to 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth, while Radeon HD 7950 BE's 32 ROPS has 240 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Remember, AMD's ROPS are not just for color ROPS (for color fill rates, memory write type operations) i.e. it includes MSAA, Depth/Stencil ROPS co-processor elements.

Radeon HD 2900's ROP hardware block.

AMD's incoming HBM (replacing GDDR5) can help to maximise the existing ROP's capabilities by giving it the highest memory bandwidth available at lowest cost within AMD's price target segment.

HBM is AMD/Hynix's stack memory solution for JEDEC standard.

AMD/Hynix's HBM would reduce the reason for Microsoft's 32 MB ESRAM + DDR3 cost reduction approach e.g. future PS4 may have all-in-one SOC+ on-chip 8 GB HBM. For compatibility reasons, PS4's HBM would be most likely limited to 176 GB/s.

Radeon HD R7-265 has 16 CUs at 900Mhz base with 925Mhz boost i.e. 1.843 TFLOPS at 900Mhz with 179 GB/s memory bandwidth.

#241 Edited by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Lem logic thinking they will be even better than PS4, let alone be on par, is ridiculous.

#242 Edited by ronvalencia (15164 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Analogy xbox one jumps from 1180Gflops to 1280 Gflops 10% consider huge real difference 100Gflops.

1840Gflops PS4 - 1280Gflops XBO = 560 Gflops... Consider small.

Want to know what you can expect from that 10%.? 2 or 3 frames more or 100 lines of resolution more depending on the game.

560 GFLOPS / 60 fps = extra ~9.3 GFLOP budget per frame.

1840 GFOPS / 60 fps = ~30 GFLOP budget per frame.

1280 GFLOPS / 60 fps = 21.3 GFLOP budget per frame.

If computation graphics quality requires 30 GFLOP per frame..

1280 GFLOPS / 42 fps = ~30.4 GFLOP budget per frame.

My theory roughly matches Snipper Elite 3's (proper tiling example) results i.e. both are at 1920x1080p shooter type game with X1 having slightly less frame rate than PS4.

#243 Posted by delta3074 (18498 posts) -

@killzowned24 said:

@tormentos said:

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Lem logic thinking they will be even better than PS4, let alone be on par, is ridiculous.

you don't get it either then, a 10% increase is huge for the 360 when NOT comparing it to the Ps4, in other words, take the Ps4 out of the equation and open your goddamn eyes and look at what he is saying, hes not even saying it will be on Par with the Ps4 you moron hes just claiming that a 10% increase is Good for the Xbone.

Why do you idiots always have to compare consoles to each other, why don't you judge the 10% increase on it's own merits instead of comparing it to something else all the time.

it appears that both you and tormentos actually need lessons in how to understand things in the correct context becaus both of your replies have no bearing on what the other guy was trying to say and you both look really stupid,lol

#244 Posted by sneslover (940 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:
@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:

Even then, you're looking at a Radeon R7 260 (not the X version, regular 260 has exactly the same number of shaders)underclocked at 853mhz (versus the PC's 1000mhz +), and then devs have to effectively use the ESRAM to get around bandwidth limitations.

From http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/768-shader-pitcairn-review,3196.html

Prototype 7850 has 12 CU/768 stream processors at 860Mhz with 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

X1's GPU solution would range between 7770 to prototype 7850-768. GDDR5 2GB 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth has better performance stability/narrower performance variance than 32 MB ESRAM + 68 GB/s DDR3 setup.X1's GPU solution would require more programming investments when compared to the prototype 7850.

PS4 basically has R7-265 level GPU which beats 7790, R7-260, R7-260X, prototype 7850 and reference 7850.

-------------

Well, I don't know if the prototype 7850 had 32 ROPs as well, but that is in the final version and not in the XBone GPU, so it and the R7 260 are just 7790 derivatives (1 CU disabled), with 16 ROPS and different clocks. 32 ROPs is one of the things that differenciates the PS4 as a stronger resolution pusher.

I do agree the 7770 and and 7850 are pretty much equivalents, provided they have higher clocks to compensate the fewer shader count. 7770 is already 1000mhz base, so even a slight OC will probably push it above XBone. The 7850 would probably need at least 2GB and an overclock to 900mhz+ to match the PS4. Of course, this is all without counting CPU-bound games.

X1's 16 ROPS at 853 Mhz is effectively 17 ROPS at 800Mhz. ROPS count are less important when it can be memory bandwidth limited for high colour bit depths and we are not factoring other co-processors within the same ROP unit.

Prototype 7850's 32 ROPS would be limited to 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth, while Radeon HD 7950 BE's 32 ROPS has 240 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Remember, AMD's ROPS are not just for color ROPS (for color fill rates, memory write type operations) i.e. it includes MSAA, Depth/Stencil ROPS co-processor elements.

Radeon HD 2900's ROP hardware block.

MD's incoming HBM (replacing GDDR5) can help to maximise the existing ROP's capabilities by giving it the highest memory bandwidth available at lowest cost within AMD's price target segment.

HBM is AMD/Hynix's stack memory solution for JEDEC standard.

AMD/Hynix's HBM would reduce the reason for Microsoft's 32 MB ESRAM + DDR3 cost reduction approach e.g. future PS4 may have all-in-one SOC+ on-chip 8 GB HBM. For compatibility reasons, PS4's HBM would be most likely limited to 176 GB/s.

Radeon HD R7-265 has 16 CUs at 900Mhz base with 925Mhz boost i.e. 1.843 TFLOPS at 900Mhz with 179 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Well I don't know if the 7850 would benefit from more bandwidth or if the 7950 can take advantage of the 240GB/s its 384bit bus allows (it would use more than 179GB/s though, I think).

It reminds me of the case for my GT 640 DDR3 (28.8GB/s BW, with 39GB/s with OC) that matched or exceeded (and rarely came below) a GDDR5 6670. It's also above the 8800 even with this weak bandwidth.

Bottom line is, I think the XB1 and PS4's GPUs are similar enough where we can compare ROP and shader numbers, as well as clockspeeds, and the PS4 will always be above.

The real mystery is Latte.

#245 Edited by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

@delta3074 said:

@killzowned24 said:

@tormentos said:

@spitfire-six said:

@tormentos: Yes but thats if your comparing it to the ps4. You don't have to compare the two consoles with every waking moment, this 10% increase will be huge for the xbox one. (relative to its prior state) The games have been pretty good thus far and we have seen what it is capable of in its handicap state now its time to wait and see what a 10% increase in GPU looks like.

How is 10% huge when the 40 to 50% the PS4 has on it is small.?

Lem logic thinking they will be even better than PS4, let alone be on par, is ridiculous.

you don't get it either then, a 10% increase is huge for the 360 when NOT comparing it to the Ps4, in other words, take the Ps4 out of the equation and open your goddamn eyes and look at what he is saying, hes not even saying it will be on Par with the Ps4 you moron hes just claiming that a 10% increase is Good for the Xbone.

Why do you idiots always have to compare consoles to each other, why don't you judge the 10% increase on it's own merits instead of comparing it to something else all the time.

it appears that both you and tormentos actually need lessons in how to understand things in the correct context becaus both of your replies have no bearing on what the other guy was trying to say and you both look really stupid,lol

I get it, it's just nobody cares on this board. Most games are multi and xbone will be getting the worst of the bunch. If you want to praise xbone with no comparisons,run to the xbone board.

#246 Edited by ronvalencia (15164 posts) -

@

@sneslover said:

@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:

Well, I don't know if the prototype 7850 had 32 ROPs as well, but that is in the final version and not in the XBone GPU, so it and the R7 260 are just 7790 derivatives (1 CU disabled), with 16 ROPS and different clocks. 32 ROPs is one of the things that differenciates the PS4 as a stronger resolution pusher.

I do agree the 7770 and and 7850 are pretty much equivalents, provided they have higher clocks to compensate the fewer shader count. 7770 is already 1000mhz base, so even a slight OC will probably push it above XBone. The 7850 would probably need at least 2GB and an overclock to 900mhz+ to match the PS4. Of course, this is all without counting CPU-bound games.

X1's 16 ROPS at 853 Mhz is effectively 17 ROPS at 800Mhz. ROPS count are less important when it can be memory bandwidth limited for high colour bit depths and we are not factoring other co-processors within the same ROP unit.

Prototype 7850's 32 ROPS would be limited to 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth, while Radeon HD 7950 BE's 32 ROPS has 240 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Remember, AMD's ROPS are not just for color ROPS (for color fill rates, memory write type operations) i.e. it includes MSAA, Depth/Stencil ROPS co-processor elements.

Radeon HD 2900's ROP hardware block.

MD's incoming HBM (replacing GDDR5) can help to maximise the existing ROP's capabilities by giving it the highest memory bandwidth available at lowest cost within AMD's price target segment.

HBM is AMD/Hynix's stack memory solution for JEDEC standard.

AMD/Hynix's HBM would reduce the reason for Microsoft's 32 MB ESRAM + DDR3 cost reduction approach e.g. future PS4 may have all-in-one SOC+ on-chip 8 GB HBM. For compatibility reasons, PS4's HBM would be most likely limited to 176 GB/s.

Radeon HD R7-265 has 16 CUs at 900Mhz base with 925Mhz boost i.e. 1.843 TFLOPS at 900Mhz with 179 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Well I don't know if the 7850 would benefit from more bandwidth or if the 7950 can take advantage of the 240GB/s its 384bit bus allows (it would use more than 179GB/s though, I think).

It reminds me of the case for my GT 640 DDR3 (28.8GB/s BW, with 39GB/s with OC) that matched or exceeded (and rarely came below) a GDDR5 6670. It's also above the 8800 even with this weak bandwidth.

Bottom line is, I think the XB1 and PS4's GPUs are similar enough where we can compare ROP and shader numbers, as well as clockspeeds, and the PS4 will always be above.

The real mystery is Latte.

It was stated PS4's The Order was memory bandwidth limited for 1920x1080p with MSAA 4X. Higher memory bandwidth with enough frame buffer size has benefits for certain workloads.

On the PC, we can set the detail settings to fit the graphics card's specs e.g. increase MSAA and/or shadows if the graphics card has additional memory bandwidth.

The bottom line is, pure ROPS comparisons are flawed. Color ROP's fill rates includes memory write operations. You haven't factored my Radeon HD 2900's ROP unit example which has multiple I/O ports.

Microsoft already shown 16 ROPS with read and write operations hitting +150 GB/s memory bandwidth. Lower color bit depth will enable more ROPS to use on 176 GB/s memory bandwidth.

#247 Posted by MiiiiV (527 posts) -

How can this thread already have so many posts? The ps4 will always have an edge over xbone and if graphics is the number one concern, go and build/buy a pre built gaming pc that smokes both next-gen consoles.

#248 Edited by kuu2 (7499 posts) -

Jr. Hardware Engineers getting owned.

#249 Posted by sukraj (23176 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

Sorry im drunkkk.

dont drink its bad for yer health.

#250 Edited by sneslover (940 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

@

@sneslover said:

@ronvalencia said:
@sneslover said:

Well, I don't know if the prototype 7850 had 32 ROPs as well, but that is in the final version and not in the XBone GPU, so it and the R7 260 are just 7790 derivatives (1 CU disabled), with 16 ROPS and different clocks. 32 ROPs is one of the things that differenciates the PS4 as a stronger resolution pusher.

I do agree the 7770 and and 7850 are pretty much equivalents, provided they have higher clocks to compensate the fewer shader count. 7770 is already 1000mhz base, so even a slight OC will probably push it above XBone. The 7850 would probably need at least 2GB and an overclock to 900mhz+ to match the PS4. Of course, this is all without counting CPU-bound games.

X1's 16 ROPS at 853 Mhz is effectively 17 ROPS at 800Mhz. ROPS count are less important when it can be memory bandwidth limited for high colour bit depths and we are not factoring other co-processors within the same ROP unit.

Prototype 7850's 32 ROPS would be limited to 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth, while Radeon HD 7950 BE's 32 ROPS has 240 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Remember, AMD's ROPS are not just for color ROPS (for color fill rates, memory write type operations) i.e. it includes MSAA, Depth/Stencil ROPS co-processor elements.

Radeon HD 2900's ROP hardware block.

MD's incoming HBM (replacing GDDR5) can help to maximise the existing ROP's capabilities by giving it the highest memory bandwidth available at lowest cost within AMD's price target segment.

HBM is AMD/Hynix's stack memory solution for JEDEC standard.

AMD/Hynix's HBM would reduce the reason for Microsoft's 32 MB ESRAM + DDR3 cost reduction approach e.g. future PS4 may have all-in-one SOC+ on-chip 8 GB HBM. For compatibility reasons, PS4's HBM would be most likely limited to 176 GB/s.

Radeon HD R7-265 has 16 CUs at 900Mhz base with 925Mhz boost i.e. 1.843 TFLOPS at 900Mhz with 179 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Well I don't know if the 7850 would benefit from more bandwidth or if the 7950 can take advantage of the 240GB/s its 384bit bus allows (it would use more than 179GB/s though, I think).

It reminds me of the case for my GT 640 DDR3 (28.8GB/s BW, with 39GB/s with OC) that matched or exceeded (and rarely came below) a GDDR5 6670. It's also above the 8800 even with this weak bandwidth.

Bottom line is, I think the XB1 and PS4's GPUs are similar enough where we can compare ROP and shader numbers, as well as clockspeeds, and the PS4 will always be above.

The real mystery is Latte.

It was stated PS4's The Order was memory bandwidth limited for 1920x1080p with MSAA 4X. Higher memory bandwidth with enough frame buffer size has benefits for certain workloads.

On the PC, we can set the detail settings to fit the graphics card's specs e.g. increase MSAA and/or shadows if the graphics card has additional memory bandwidth.

The bottom line is, pure ROPS comparisons are flawed. Color ROP's fill rates includes memory write operations. You haven't factored my Radeon HD 2900's ROP unit example which has multiple I/O ports.

Microsoft already shown 16 ROPS with read and write operations hitting +150 GB/s memory bandwidth. Lower color bit depth will enable more ROPS to use on 176 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Alright, so the PS4 GPU can use up more bandwidth, that's interesting to hear, but when does it become moot if the rest of the card can't cope with the settings (before we hit a bandwidth wall)? I seriously don't know for sure. I'm also not literate enough on the matter to know the differences between ROPs, I only know as far as ROPs and clockspeed affect pixel rate, which in turn is a factor for higher resolutions.

I also read somewhere that for the 7850 and 7870 in particular, 32 ROPs was kind of overkill for 1080p (considering the rest of the card's power), whereas 7770 and 7790's 16 ROPs was just barely enough for 1080p, saying Nvidia's 24 ROP configuration in some cards was a balanced middle ground, which takes me back again to the GT 640, which has different versions, and mine with lower clockspeed (902mhz), 32 TMUs, 16 ROPs and 28.8GB/s BW is slower than the GT 640 Rev.2 with higher clockspeed (1046mhz), 16 TMUs, 8 ROPs and 40.1GB/s BW. It's tough designing/choosing a balanced card.

This is getting interesting. I surely don't know as much as you do, but I love learning. I do think PS4 is kind of a simple, brute-force design and that the XB1 and Wii U approach of big pool of slower ram + embedded fast ram is a more elegant/smart solution, and has potential benefits for the size/price of the system in the long run, and I keep thinking how the GDDR5 on the PS4 is wasted for non GPU operation. I know they went for simple unified design but I'm not sure how much more than 2-3GB can a "7860" use before it hits other bottlenecks.

On a side-note, I think MSAA should be abandoned on consoles in favour of SMAA as I think it is a more performance cost-effective measure on a limited system like the consoles'.